Talk:Ryan Giggs

Ryan Giggs children

Right, I just had a glance at Giggs's private life section on here. The details about his kids only come from one source, [1]. Not only is this a commerical site, i'm sure that using it would constitute original research. Are there other sources that could be used? I did some quick googling but I can't find anything that mentions his kids by name, just the fact that he has two. Postrock1 (talk) 20:42, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

His children are named in the Manchester United DVD "Ryan Giggs: True Red". When I'm done with my uni work (should be by the end of the week), I'll give it a watch and add a reference. – PeeJay 17:23, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Brilliant, thank you. Postrock1 (talk) 17:57, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Took me a lot longer to get round to it than I thought it would, but this is finally done. Giggs' kids' middle names aren't mentioned on the DVD, but at least we now have a published source for the fact that he has two kids called Libby and Zach. – PeeJay 23:56, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Gossip

• I have reviewed the situation because of the allegation of improper use of suppression tools. Any suppressions made have fallen within the applicable policies. Folks, this is an encyclopedia, not a gossip sheet. Information, especially salacious or highly controversial information, being added to biographical articles must be sourced, without exception. This is Wikipedia's policy and standard, and it has nothing to do with injunctions or superinjunctions or anything happening in the courts of the United Kingdom. If people feel an overwhelming urge to spread gossip, I strongly urge them to go elsewhere, as repeated BLP violations is grounds for removal from the project. This includes talk pages of articles. Risker (talk) 21:04, 23 April 2011 (UTC) Corrected Risker (talk) 15:36, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

>>This is Wikipedia's policy and standard, and it has nothing to do with injunctions or superinjunctions or anything happening in the courts of the United Kingdom

Liar liar your pants are on fire: A spokesman for Wikipedia confirmed the website will continue to do all it can to prevent super injunctions being breached by British users (http://www.metro.co.uk/news/862006-wikipedia-names-super-injunction-celebrities)

Wow. I wonder who the super injunction relates to now?.........

Scholes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.26.194.27 (talk) 20:46, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

If you truly believe everything that you read in the papers, then I worry for you. The point about super-injunctions is that they prevent any discussion about the subject of that injunction. Therefore there will be no reliable sources about this and that means it cannot be included on Wikipedia. This has always been the case, injunction or not. Until there are reliable sources that state categorically the subject of any injunctions, the gossip will be removed as per WP:BLP wherever it is placed. Woody (talk) 22:44, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

"I have reviewed the situation because of the allegation of improper use of suppression tools". Doesn't the fact that suppression tools are being used give the game away a little bit? Perhaps we should be using suppression tools to mask the fact that suppression tools are being used... doomgaze (talk) 23:57, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Would that make them super-suppression tools? Habasi (talk) 00:28, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

I was wondering if full protection might be appropriate for a while, or are we doing ok with suppression? –anemoneprojectors– 20:47, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

We've only had one bad edit since the semi-protection started so at the moment I think it is okay. We have had had lots of good edits in the same amount of time so I would be loathe to protect it but if we do get another bad edit we will have to look into fully-protecting it. Woody (talk) 21:09, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Ah yeah I forgot to look at when the page was semi-protected and how many edits there have been since. –anemoneprojectors– 21:28, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree that information should not be added without reliable sources, and when this is done, it should be reverted if sources can't be found. What I'm unclear about, though, is why edit summaries would be blocked and why people cannot see what the reverted edits were. Is it usual on Wikipedia to do this? Boleyn (talk) 17:11, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes it is not that common but there is a fair amount of redaction across articles now, particularly BLPs. Vandalism that is particularly egregious or potentially defamatory can be removed. See WP:REVDEL for the specific policy and guidelines. The edit summaries had obscenities in them hence why they were removed. Woody (talk) 22:43, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

First of all I completely agree that all information needs to be sourced before it can be added. We could analyse the number of links to this article from Twitter 'rumours', however its near impossible to quantify rumours and use that as a source. Seeing as the very nature of a super-injunction means that no references exist, and therefore no references can be sourced, the matter is simply a catch-22 - nothing exists because nothing can be sourced yet nothing can be sourced because nothing exists. HOWEVER, the very fact that we are all talking with absolute and prior knowledge, verbatim, about the fact of a super-injunction, surely proves the fact that there has been a super-injunction? Surely this talk page is our source? Look at this way - if you moved this entire talk page onto an external site away from Wikimedia, perhaps a blog or a foreign article, then this could easily provide us with a source of quantifiable knowledge and an arguable reference point. Therefore if we are to truly be able to edit this article including sourcing, then the source must come from within discussion.

There is no use evading this - eventually some bright spark will simply look at this talk page and come up with their own conclusions. You would have to be an idiot, after reading this talk page, not to realise who the super-injunction relates to. We have inadvertently created our own sources. I don't see this as gossip, everyone on this page knows the trut,h otherwise your own arguments would be completely discredited - this is a huge chunk of personal information that Wikipedia is missing out on and it's absolutely vital to add this to the written article. I am a strong opponent of vandalism and I would hate to see this article ruined without sources - yet, I believe once we have a source, there is nothing you can do or should do to prevent it, and guess what? We have this source so it is only a matter of time.82.26.166.196 (talk) 11:37, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

That's the point though. No reliable sources exist - possibly because of the terms of an injunction, possibly because the gossip is in fact rubbish. That makes things very simple for WP, because guidelines here require reliable sources - no sources equals no coverage on here. And no, this talk page wouldn't be considered a reliable source, even if it was reproduced on another site first, for the same reasons that a chat with your friends over a couple of beers wouldn't be. See WP:IRS. EJBH (talk) 13:51, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

All very true. I mean obviously it was Ryan Giggs, a quick read of last weeks Private Eye and it's nudge nudge article or a conversation with someone in the Have I Got News For You show last week will tell you that. :D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.243.211 (talk) 23:45, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Content of talk pages

Out of curiosity, why does the above edit mention "This includes talk pages of articles.". Surely the talk page is exactly the right place for such discussions to take place without fear of reprisal over violating policy designed to protect the integrity of articles or, more worryingly, UK court injunctions? This part of the discussion comes across as very suspicious to me, I would appreciate clarification on the matter from a wikipedia user other than the above editor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.23.128.190 (talk) 16:27, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree with you completely. Anyhow, it was reading this talk page when I figured out it was Ryan Giggs that was involved with an unnamed woman(possibly his wife, possibly not). 66.229.90.243 (talk) 00:30, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Criticism

If Information....must be sourced, without exception (sic) most of this biography needs to be removed. I disagree with the above statement that this is not the place for highly controversial information. This is the people's encyclopedia and therefore it should discuss main stream opinons(read Twitter) even if these opions are not true. Given the volume of tweets on this footballer, it would be great to add a few lines to discuss this, but at the same time to make clear there is no evidence to support this.

Regarding BLP violations, is it a violation for a PR company to edit their client's biography ? I am not suggesting this is the case, just wondering if this would be a BLP violation as well ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.84.178 (talk) 20:07, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia might be 'the people's encyclopedia', but it still has policies which must be observed. If a client's PR firm was adding or removing material from an article this is covered by Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. Twitter is not a reliable source, and it is particularkly contentious material, which certainly applies to the rumour involving Giggs, which WP:BLP policy insists must be removed immediately. Philip Cross (talk) 20:23, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

It may be worth to review editors of this biography. I may be completely wrong, but personally I believe this article has been cleaned up by a professional writer. This may quite well have been a dedicated fan of course —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.84.178 (talk) 21:10, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Activisim

According to http://www.unicef.org.uk/UNICEFs-Work/Our-supporters/Celebrities/Ryan-Giggs/ he has been a UNICEF ambassador since August 2006 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.223.124.79 (talk) 12:20, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

ANI thread related to this article

Wikipedia:Ani#edit_violating_worldwide_U.K._injunction.3F, just FYI. Buddy431 (talk) 20:41, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Now archived here. Buddy431 (talk) 22:53, 30 April 2011 (UTC)