Talk:The Munsters

Mockingbird Heights in which Town & State?

In popular TV shows this usually comes up from time to time; for example in The Simpsons a lot of folks are hell bent on wanting to know what state Springfield is in. Likewise for the famous comic book The Archies on the location of Riverdale. Both fictional towns have separate pages on wiki. Anybody want to take their best guestimation on where (State & Town) Munsters lived? I'm no expert but I get the impression that they lived in some little humble all-American town in California. I defer to the Munster experts.--LAgurl 10:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

This response is years late, and I should be embarrased for even responding to such an insipid query. But so that you know, Mockinbird Heights was most likely situated as a small bedroom suburb of New York State, situated below New York City, and embedded in probably the county of Westcheste Putnam, or even Organge county, on the other side of the Hudson River. There are a couple of allusions as to the geographical placment; for example, in one episode, the Munster were required to remove temporarily to the city Buffalo, New York. The characters made many disparaging remarks about the declining economic state of the now-notorious rust-belt town, and depressed area, which has been dying since the late fifties. This would also make sense as most of the Hollywood writers, creators and producers came from the greater New York City area of that period, and, ever since the beginning of the movie industry, have prolifically and affectionately rendered their area origin with many stories in cinema that gave them so much oppertunities. --24.46.103.28 (talk) 20:27, 20 May 2011 (UTC)Veryverser

Munsters and The Addams Family

Wasn't the Munsters pretty much a cheap clone of The Addams Family? -- Tarquin

Yes, just as The Monkees imitated The Beatles, or tried to.

Why can't we all just get along?

I preferred to Munsters to the original Addams family, I don't get the cheap clone bit. The new series was dire though

The humor is a bit different, and whereas the Addams were odd humans, the Munsters really are a promethean, a vampire, a vampiress, and a werewolf, respectively.

Personally, I always thought the chief difference between the two families was that the Addams were monstruous humans, while the Munsters were ver humane monsters.

I have also liked both shows, but i preferred The Munsters, they were good shows and shouldn't be discriminated by their quality. They are still good funny shows to me. Yoda317 00:25, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

They both debuted in 1964 - I think they were both following a common trend, rather than copying each other —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.32.43.196 (talk) 09:31, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Allegory

The Munsters was a veiled allegory for the plight of Jews and other minorities in America. The Munsters looked different from the majority and had seemingly peculiar habits, traditions, customs, and so forth. Yet they proudly considered themselves an eminently normal, respectable, American bourgeois family. They did not regard their strange ways as in anyway incongruent with the American Way of Life. Indeed, they were essentially benevolent; they never hurt anyone and treated others with respect. Uncle Herman was a gentle, lovable individual. Even though, due to discrimination (against the freakish, i.e., minorities) he could never advance professionally in his menial job at the funeral parlor, he resolutely refused to become embittered or even to acknowledge the truth. He believed in the System and cooperated with it; even when he was arrested he offered no resistance, and it never even crossed his mind to use his enormous strength to threaten the police and forcibly get his way.

Rejected and scorned by ordinary people, who either hated them or feared them for no reason save superficial appearances, the Munsters coped by engaging in extensive denial, doggedly clinging to the belief that they were really no different than anyone else. The inexplicable anomaly of Marilyn caps it all off: she is not only "normal," but conforms to mainstream America's conception of WASP beauty and appropriate looks--she is sweet, pleasant, and blonde. The rest of the family thinks she is strange, when in fact she is "normal." If you examine the characters' behavior closely, you can see that they resolutely stand for what we today call "family values." They eat meals around the family table, express concern about their son's welfare and social (mal)adjustment, worry about fitting into the neighborhood, and so forth. Herman tells Eddie to be respectful. He is the typical all-American dad who sees himself as breadwinner and still happily takes orders from his wife. The fact that they cannot fit in despite their best efforts makes it all the more poignant. --bamjd3d

Jews, hippies, anybody really! That's why it was popular in the 60s. How better to spoof how cool it was becoming to be different?

This is, if I recall, emphasized in an early episode. In one scene, the Munsters' neighbors fret about the declining property values since "those people" moved-in. Of course, it's difficult to fully accept the series' "enlightenment" considering Grandpa's infamous "wetback" slur. A reflection of its time, no doubt, but distracting nonetheless: http://www.tv.com/the-munsters/show/589/a-racial-slur-from-grandpa!/topic/58860-210474/msgs.html

JJP

Not sure if I would agree that it was based on the plight of Jews in America - especially since the average Jewish person (yes, even in the 1960's) doesn't look anything different than any other white person - unless you are one of those people who think that all jews look like the hasidim. I could buy your explanation with other minorities though such as African Americans and Hispanics. I just find it very interesting how you focused on Jews.151.204.145.212 00:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC)AR

Can't really vouch for that, but I do notice the odd trend of utilizing the minority and intolerance allegory being used in 1960s sitcoms. Besides The Munsters, you also had The Addams Family, Bewitched, the Beverly Hillibillies, and even Green Acres in a sense, because they usually dealt with the fact of people being unusual or put in unusual circumstances.

In fact, I noted this concept right off in the first episode of The Munsters when Herman wins first prize for wearing a mask under a mask, Lilly gets ticked off because they've 'insulted' her husband, while the others never realized Herman really looks like that. Fangarius 05:36, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Does Eddie change into a werewolf?

No, he turns into a guitar player for "Dingos Ate My Baby". ;) Trekphiler 23:23, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, he does in the 1995 made for TV movie Here Come The Munsters.

Actually that was strange because they always made references about Eddie transforming but it never genuinely occurred in the series, whereas in the TV movie he accidentally did when his science teacher inadvertantly reveals a slide of the full moon. Ironically, rather than scaring his classmates, everyone thought Eddie was now cool, go fig. Fangarius 05:55, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Necrophilia

I've heard Lily & Hermann were the first TV couple seen to share a bed, which was fairly revolutionary at the time. Trekphiler 23:23, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Lily and Herman were just one of about five different TV couples that share the distinction of being the very first couple seen in bed together on TV. Fred & Wilma Flintstone was also the first, and so was Fred & Ethel Mertz, and just ask Florence Henderson, and she'll gladly perpetuate the misinformation that Carol & Mike Brady were first. The true distinction actually belongs to some long forgotten sitcom from the early 50s, I believe. There's no point in correcting it here or in the Flintstones entry, though, because someone else changes it back. The important thing is whether the couple was shown on bed in 1955 (Fred & Ethel) or 1970 (Mike & Carol) or any time in between, they're all first in my book! --TP

The first show where the couple had a double bed was Mary Kay and Johnny. Format 07:16, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I would like to understand why in the sixties people couldn't be seen in bed together, it was like sex didn't exist. I agree with Trekphiler, they are all first in my book, i consider The Munsters the first monster couple to sleep in bed together. Yoda317 00:29, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Silly point

This section seems very silly: "No explanation is ever given as to why Eddie is a werewolf, as he is the son of a Frankenstein-esqe monster and a vampire. It is assumed that this was done for the sake comedy without much thought about plot continuity, but many fans have postulated that perhaps either Grandpa was once married to a werewolf (making Lily half-werewolf, half-vampire) or that Eddie was simply bitten by a werewolf at one time. This question was addressed in an episode of the Simpsons in which Butch Patrick was a guest star."

Afterall this show is a sitcom/fantasy. Nothing in the show is meant to really make sense, and it is full of things like magic spells and potions which are pure fantasy, and even different weather conditions over the Munster home. Just because the show mixes together various fiction and fantasy elements shouldn't really be an issue and barely needs to be mentioned. Having a werewolf son of a vampire-like mother and a frankenstein's monster type father hardly causes "continuity" problems because werewolf, vampire and frankenstein figures are all pure fantasy to begin with. Alleged fan postulation sounds like weasal words. Which fans? Is this postulation documented?? Format 04:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Deleted this entry entirely. As the werewolf page states, werewolves transform either through their own will or via magic or a curse. Since The Munsters frequently featured magic spells and potions and these were ever-present and consistent elements in the show's story-world, Eddie could easily have partaken in such a magic spell, and really there's nothing special or notable about it. Format 02:45, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Regardless of the accuracy of the comments made on _The Simpsons_, the fact that they mentioned the show is notable as a pop culture reference. I'd rework the deleted passage as being about the reference first, and perhaps mention the "werewolf, son of a Frankenstein monster and vampire" as being the joke they told on the show. Croctotheface 09:10, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Since Herman's made up of lots of different parts, surely his genetic material could have come from a werewolf that died and was added to the monster, and Eddie's clearly a vampire when he's in his 'human' form, so he's a vampire-werewolf. Makes sense to me.

More removals

Why all the persistemt chat about why Marilyn has the name Munster or calls Grandpa, "Grandpa"? For all we know, she has lived with the Munsters since birth, so would readily have done both these things. Who really cares about her name? Maybe ghoul families have different ways of passing down their last names!? In a show where bizarre and inconsistent fiction and fantasy elements were the norm, who really cares about Marilyn's last name!!??!! The change to Marilyn's bloodlines in a later film can be mentioned (it was probably a scripting mistake), but we can't include fan postulation. Format 05:52, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

According to her bio section, Marilyn is Lilly's sister's daughter. Her grandfather would (probably) be Lilly's father, Grandpa. Nothing strange in that part. Jordan Brown 19:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Opening statement

I think the intro to the article is a bit off. It's not that they don't realize they're different, it's that they don't realize they're _strange_. They believe they're perfectly normal, and unique in their neighborhood in being so.. that they're superior to the other 'ugly' (normal) people and their silly mixed-up ways, but they're too polite to act that way.

Merge character pages into main page?

Of the five main characters, two (Herman and Marilyn) redirect back to this article and three (Lilly, Grandpa, Eddie) have tiny stub articles with no more information than is presented here.

Seems to me that those stub articles should be eliminated in favor of redirects, moving whatever additional information they might have. Jordan Brown 19:23, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. I put tag on them for a starter.-- Matthead ^discuß!     O       14:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed........good plan to make them redirects. PKT 15:12, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I have completed the merging. I suggest additional trimming on the Lily section, as it has way too much info, and the pictures for Grandpa and Eddie need to be better formatted, but the info merging and redirecting is done. In addition, I have cleaned up and eliminated the trivia section. The trivia is till in there, it has just been integrated.TheGreenFaerae 08:30, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

The problem is the other characters need their info expanded, not Lily's depleted. Eddie in particular deserves more info.".Matthew." 06:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Lily or Lillian

Interesting, because I always thought her name was Lillian - or were both names used in the series?151.204.145.212 00:54, 13 January 2007 (UTC)AR

In one episode of The Munsters Today she is referred to as Lillian by her old coach (the Mummy).

Request

I think the phrase supernatural is inappropriate as The Munsters weren't supernatural they were just ordinary people in the form of monsters. Yoda317 00:57, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

"Supernatural," as it appears in this article, is being used to describe the Addams Family, not the Munsters. They did have a few supernatural powers. Uncle Fester ran on DC power and could power lightbulbs by placing them in his mouth. In an episode I recently watched, Morticia lit a series of candles just by pointing at them. Other than these examples they didn't have any other supernatural powers (that I can think of). Still, I don't think the term accuratly describes the Addams either. As a whole, they were not supernatural; just creepy, kookey, mysterious, and spooky. :) -NatureBoyMD 02:36, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually I felt Fester's ability was an unusual quirk than being supernatural. As for The Munsters, Grandpa did do a lot of supernatural things with his potions and such, even mystically moving his spell book at times, and causing grease to materialize in a bellhop's hand when he misunderstood Marilyn's expression to 'grease his palm.'

In fact, Grandpa's botched up spells and potions reminded me a bit of Aunt Clara and Esmeralda from 'Bewitched' though I know the show aired later. Also, in the pilot, Grandpa points at Eddie's noose, shocking it out of his hand when 'Phoebe' tells him to stop playing with it.

The Addams Family had a macabre feel to it, but they appeared more eccentric than ghoulish, with the possible exceptions of Lurch, Thing and Cousin Itt. Fangarius 06:01, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Info

I would like to know more info about The Munsters (film). I haven't heard any new info about it or what is the fate of the movie. Could somebody please offer some info my talkpage? Thanks! Yoda317 01:00, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

This article needs additional references or sources for verification

What part of "References : The TV shows and the DVD Commentary" doesn't the wiki editors understand? User:Kaneda 16:24, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I think it is there because the article needs more secondary references, like from books and articles from newspapers and magazines.

The "Characters" section should be OK since that info is derived from the content of the series. The production section, in particular, is in dire need of refs. -NatureBoyMD 16:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I actually placed this here because I didn't know where else to put it, but you can add this to the Pop Culture reference. In one of the Simpsons' Treehouse of Horror openings, they pay tribute to the Munsters where Lisa ends up being 'Marilyn' and is saved from the angry Springfieldian mob because she looks normal, which was rather an inside joke.

In the colour pilot episode, now on DVD, Herman's original wife was played by Joan Marshall, and was called Phoebe, who appeared more like a green-skinned version of Morticia or Vampira. Happy Derman played Eddie, except here he acted like a Tazmanian Devil-esque brat than the polite Wolfman personal Butch Patrick depicted. Not exactly trivia but some tidbits you might want to include in the article. Fangarius 05:52, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I noticed the inline links in the "In Popular Culture" section don't seem to work, but I'm not sure how to fix them.
Clicking on the link seems to go nowhere at all. MatthewTStone 06:27, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Fixed now MatthewTStone (talk) 08:00, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Kenneth Strickfaden

Kenneth Strickfaden page has been started. He is one of the special effects artists responsible for The Munsters. Rogerfgay (talk) 16:10, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Recent trivia deletions

Some of the trivia that was deleted did serve to show the influence that the series has had on popular culture over the years. Wouldn't it be better to weave the references into the article rather than just delete them completely? MatthewTStone (talk) 09:50, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I've restored a few of my deletions. However, I still consider the rest to be one-off, trivial references. IMO, there are enough items remaining in the pop culture section to demonstrate the show's influence, but you're welcome to work the rest into the article somewhere. Clarityfiend (talk) 16:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Similarities

What's the difference between Herman Munster and the Frankenstein monster? D@rk K 11:02, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Morticia Addams

"Lily was not in the original pilot episode of The Munsters. Instead, Herman is married to a much more Gothic-looking wife named Phoebe, played by Joan Marshall. The producers scrapped the Phoebe character after deciding she seemed almost an exact double of the Morticia Addams character on The Addams Family. "

How could the producers of The Munsters decide, in early 1964, that Phoebe look too much like the Morticia Addams character on The Addams Family, when both shows did not debut until September 1964? (Yes, I know the Addams Family series was based on the nameless Charles Addams cartoons in The New Yorker. But the quote above says "on The Addams Family".) — Walloon (talk) 09:45, 4 January 2008 (UTC) Exactly. Many rumours claim this is why Phoebe ended up 'regenerating' into Lily. Yet, I doubt the producers based Phoebe on Morticia, but more on the character known as Vampira from Plan 9 From Outer Space. I think at the time the producers wanted the character design but the rights weren't officially owned by Universal. Since you'll note the characters were based on Universal Monsters (I know, Duh, right?). Taking this into account, I believe Lily's design came from one of the 'brides' of Dracula. In retrospect, I believe Lily's form was more appropriate since she is Vlad's (Grandpa) daughter.Fangarius (talk) 04:43, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Deletion of in popular culture section

I have reverted the deletion of this section. Since The Munsters is part of popular culture, its influence on popular culture in general seems relevant. As long as the references are sourced, they should be left in.
Granted though, as the tag indicates, they should be incorporated into the article and not in a trivia section. Noteworthiness is a very subjective thing. MatthewTStone (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Stanley Wilson as composer?

Does anyone have a source for this? I've never seen this stated in anything written about the show except for this Wikipedia article (and the Stanley Wilson article). All Munsters episodes credit the music to Jack Marshall. I'm going to remove Wilson from the infobox for now, since I think a tag would make it too cluttered.Mupept (talk) 00:37, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Dark Shadows comparison is flawed

"Of the shows that ran during this era, The Munsters is most similar in look, characters, setting, theme and problems to Dark Shadows..."

Hard to see how this comparison makes sense, since "Dark Shadows" premiered the season *after* "The Munsters" went off the air. The two shows were not contemporaries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.244.20.9 (talk) 04:49, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Correction

"The Munsters" were not a relief of melodramtic soap operas such as "Dark Shadows" as the later series did not debut until 1966A.D. The only "suspense" soap opera that could have come closer to the latter was "The Edge of Night". Rather, it was more a tongue-in-cheek send-up to the "classic", low-budget horror movies, using iconic monster images such as Dracula and Frankenstein. These were still all the rage in the fifties and sixties, especially with the "Hammer Films" and "chiller Theatre" re-runs. The characters themselves bore this out, obviously! With sister-themed show "The Addams Family", and competitive sitcoms "Bewitched" and "I Dream of Jeannie", this formula became a winning mantra that departed from the typical middle-class family situation comedies, and droll western series! --24.46.103.28 (talk) 20:06, 20 May 2011 (UTC)Veryverser