Talk:Jacques Cartier

Problem with biographical dates

By other online resources, the date 19 January 1557 is wrong (1 Sep is given) and 31 December 1491 as birth looks also rather improbable (see the given link). [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Malyctenar (talk • contribs) 13:19, 5 May 2005

First Voyage

It sayds that the reason he was recomended to head the voyage was because he had already made voyages to Brazil and Newfoundland. So ... how can this be his first voyage?--Matt D (talk) 18:30, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

That's not a bad point. However almost nothing is known about these earlier trips to the New World, except that Le Veneur reportedly said that Cartier made them. Meanwhile the voyages in 1534, 1535-36 and 1541-42 are extensively described in the Relations and other documents. It may be more prudent to talk about the first, second, and third Relations. Eulalie Écho (talk) 09:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

The second sentence of the article on Jacques Cartier is definitely NOT English and is impossible to interpret:

"He was the first who described and mapped[1] the Gulf of Saint Lawrence and the shores of the Saint Lawrence River, which he named "The Country of Canada(s)", as was so called both Iroquoian big settlements he saw in Stadaconna (Quebec City) and in Hochelaga (Montreal Island)".

Perhaps the original author intended to say something like:

He was the first who described and mapped the Gulf of Saint Lawrence and the shores of the Saint Lawrence River. He named the land, Canada, the name used by Iroquois and claimed it for France. He reported visiting two major Iroquois settlements: Stadaconna (now Quebec City) and Hochelaga (on Montreal Island). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.31.156.191 (talk) 02:42, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Wait didn't he discover at least three things??? Gwendylu (talk) 00:26, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Typo?

Under 'First Voyage', it says "During this trip he took Domagaya and Taignoagny, the sons of Huron Chief Donnacona, back to Europe." But at the link it provides at the bottom, it says Donnacona was 'Laurentian Iroquois', not Huron. Even the Wikipedia article about Donnacona says he is Iroquois. Is there a reason for this? Is it a typo?

Not Iroquois, Iroquoian. Former refers to tribe, latter refers to linguistic group. Kinda like German versus Germanic, which could apply to English, etc.

Why does it show Adriana Pericak's name instead of Jacques Cartier's name in the First Voyage? The entire paragraph seems inaccurate, with references to Pakistanians and Kahzakstanians.

French or Breton?

Saint-Malo is in Brittany, and his baptismal name Jaques Cartier looks more Breton than French. Was he in fact Breton? --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 13:50, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Brittany is a part of France. Hence he is French. CQFD.

Bull. He was born (1491) Breton because Brittany wasn't absorbed into France yet (1532). As it says in the article. --Urhixidur 01:25, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

total bullshit. Bretagne was incorporated in Crown (private domaine of the King) in 1532, not in the Kingdom, moronism at its best. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.7.237.18 (talk) 18:55, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Bretagne always was a french teritory, and dialect names just show local languages, so stop revisionism from something you can' t understand, french history! and stop with your Lawrence river, anglisism that NEVER STATED AT THIS TIMES, evrybody, and western world was speaking french, your kings too! UK was a french duchy, terre neuve was the real name for this times, trying to spin the history is a englis sport anyways!

The writer of the above comment is ignorant. Brittany was an independent CELTIC duchy, not French, when Jakez Karter was born. The Breton language is related more closely to Welsh than it is to French, and is not a "dialect" of anything, it's a language that the French governement has given no respect or regognition to because they're too stuck up an ignorant of thier own minorities. The English and French are equally good at "spinning history" I would say. UK, a French Duchy? In 1067 maybe...not in 1500. Common man, learn history.

Doesn't change much, if the process had been started or not, the fact is it was not formally a part of France. Well little Breton does not mean no Breton in any case, if Karter did speak it the fact probably got hushed up by the French government anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.151.160.105 (talk) 05:09, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

The annexation of Brittany was in process long before 1532 -- see Anne of Brittany. Cartier was born in Saint-Malo on the Norman border where little Breton was spoken.Eulalie Écho (talk) 03:31, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Nonsense! Breton was spoken in Saint Malo of course! Your claim is as stupid as saying that people don't speak English so much in Texas because of its proximity to the linguistic border. Jakez Karter was Breton. His parents spoke only Breton. His mother sang lullabies to him in Breton, and his father would scold him in Breton. That's what I call "first language". Because he was fortunate, he received an education, and hence he learned Latin, Greek, and "French". I'm listing French in quotes, because back in those days, the dwellers of the French kingdom spoke a variety of local languages and dialects. There was no "national language". That being said, Breton itself is *not* a dialect of French or English. It is a language in its own right, a very old Celtic language in fact, very close to Welsh. To this day, it is still spoken by many people. I should know, because I speak it. My 80 year old grandparents speak exclusively Breton (except for official documents required to be in French). They only had learned French when they were 10 years old. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.58.144.199 (talk) 23:22, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Care to mention a a source that shows that Cartier spoke Breton? Eulalie Écho (talk) 18:41, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Supporting a French identity for Cartier: - Born in Brittany, which is part of France - Conducted his voyages under the employ of the King of France

Supporting a Breton identity for Cartier: - Born in Brittany in 1491; Brittany was not formally annexed by France until 1532 (that the annexation was underway before this time is irrelevant; up until 1532, maps would have shown it as independent) - Name displays Breton characteristics (Karter, similar to English "Carter"), albeit not unequivocally (Cartier similar to "Carretier", an older form of "charretier") - Two of his ships were the Grande Hermine and the Petite Hermine, i.e. the "Great Ermine" and the "Little Ermine". The ermine is intimately associated with Brittany; the four cantons in the top left corner of the flag of Brittany and the myriad ones on the Breton coat of arms are stylizations of ermines' tails, and the Breton motto Kentoc'h mervel eget bezañ saotret, "Rather death than dishonour" refers to the medieval belief that, if a trapper smeared mud around the entrance to an ermine's den, the ermine would refuse to re-enter it, preferring to be caught and killed than to defile its pristine fur.

Logical conclusion: Cartier was Breton by birth, but was a French explorer. Calling him a French explorer is no less correct than calling Italian-born Giovanni Caboto (John Cabot) an English explorer. However, to claim that he himself was not Breton is incorrect: even after Brittany was annexed by France, Cartier still held residence in St. Malo, Brittany (when he was not overseas). After 1532 he would have been French by nationality, but Breton by region. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Casey Goranson (talk • contribs) 05:40, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Baptism

No baptismal certificate has been found and the spelling "Jakez Karter" is unreferenced and probably fictional.Eulalie Écho (talk) 03:31, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

-This was obviously erased by the French government in efforts to hush up Karter's breton idendity. It seems that in the case of Eulalie, it worked. The simple facts are these: he was not born in France. Indeed the final decision should be made by the man himself shouldn't it? What did Jacques Cartier think about it? Answer: the colours of his voyage were the white and black of Brittany, NOT the colours of France. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.151.182.210 (talk) 06:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Fact check: Ice depth

An User:66.131.141.10 anonymous user made the following unattributed change:

From mid-November 1535 to mid-April 1536, the French fleet lay frozen solid at the mouth of the St. Charles river, under the Rock of Quebec. Ice was over two a fathom (1.8 m) thick in the river, and snow four feet (1.2 m) deep ashore.

So was it one fathom or two? I don't doubt that one fathom is 1.8m. What I doubt is that JC was using SI units. Does anyone have a source? Cleduc 13:13, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Racist or proven statements?

I am not a specialist, but I found highly dubious the following sentences:

-(first section): "Donnacona thought at first that Cartier was a man from underwater" (dubious: French, Spanish and Basque fishermen had been in the area ---mostly New Foundland, Labrador/North Coast and St-Pierre and Miquelon---for at least 40 years before Cartier arrived, and extensive tradings already existed between the Natives and the Europeans. While we don`t know if the Wyondat tribe met Europeans before, it is highly likely that they knew the existence of these tradings before they encountered Cartier.

== Also, please note that documented portuguese maps (e.g.: Ribeiro c. 1532) already shown a precise carthography of Labrador, Terra-Nova, and st.laurent river. A look at, for instance, Moura (1992) "Les portugais dans l'exploration et le colonization..." could allow a more neutral description of Jacques Cartier discoveries.

-(last section): "Hurons killed and ate 35 French settlemen" (citations required, to say the least). Also dubious (middle section): that 50 Hurons died of scorbut, given that they knew the remedy for this disease.

--(throught the text): I am not at ease with sentences such as "Cartier tried to entertain diplomatic relationships" when his record consists of several kidnappings (Donnacona's sons, and then Donnacona himself), broken promises (Donnacona never came back to Canada), and pactification with the enemy (Stadacona was at war vs Hochelaga, and Donnacona strongly opposed to Carter's will to sail to Hochelaga).

I'm not a specialist; only an educated user. I would like someone with greater knowledge settle these issues.

---

The word "natives" appears several times in reference to Iroquois people who owned the land Cartier found. The word native is often a derogatory term for non-European inhabitants of colonized territories. I suggest that the word "Iroquois" replace the words "native" and "natives" in this article.

St.Lawrence River

File:Bold textjacques cartier visited the St. Lawrence river, but did he go on extending rivers attached to the St. Lawrence? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.226.63.85 (talk) 00:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

Is all of the stuff?

) Hello, I was just wondering if all of the information about Jacque Cartier on this page is true. I was wondering because people that use this page for a project might get the wrong information if anybody can change the information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.12.110.239 (talk) 19:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC).

Um Hi!!! I was woundering if it was true how the everyone got cured from scurvy because my schools text book says the Aboriginals gave Cartier a cure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noseync42 (talk • contribs) 01:36, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

some of this information u may read may not be true actually most teachers dont trust this webside. because anybody can type some wrong information and u dont really learn anything cause its false info. i hope i answered ure question :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.163.254.27 (talk) 21:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't use a Wikipedia article for schoolwork as you are right that the articles are open to anyone who can write anything. Use Wikipedia to get a general idea of the article's subject (ie Cartier). Check the references and internet links that are given in the article to see if you can verify the information on another trustworthy site, like the Canadian Encyclopedia online, or the Dictionary of Canadian Biography, or a government website (many provinces maintain decent information sites about their histories). The more references and sources that are given, the greater likelihood that the information can be trusted. Be careful of finding people's own viewpoints either in the article or in the sources cited. The articles are supposed to be neutral, and not essays arguing for one interpretation of history over another. Finally, pick up a real book on the subject, from a library.  : ) Corlyon (talk) 16:54, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

was he breton or french??

was he a breton or a frenchman?--Sonjaaa (talk) 13:34, 14 December 2007 (UTC) it looks like he grew up in an area that was not part of france yet? or ?

was George Washington American or English? Huh? Huh? Who cares! Cartier was born in Brittany which was at the time of his birth an independent duchy, to be annexed to France only a few years later. In the end, it doesn't matter what he was. There was no sense of citizenship back in those days in that corner of Europe. He made all the discoveries in the name of the king of France not in the name of the Duchy of Brittany. It's likely that he spoke Breton, but it's evident that he spoke French and Latin. Anyway, you may use 1,000 different criteria to decide whether he was French or Breton. You may find him to be Breton, or French. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.45.203.23 (talk) 05:05, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Death

The French Wikipedia states Jacques Cartier died in St. Malo, France, where he was born. Galoubet (talk) 16:11, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

How came (just on this wiki) his death at (bad joke of AmericanBang, on 22:00, 1 August 2008) "La Chapelle-Janson, France" ? - 66.36.140.24 (talk) 03:53, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

This bad joke is now reverted. - Daubert (talk) 19:19, 6 October 2008 (UTC)Cool!

Ship

His ship on all voyages was the "Grande Hermane" or "The Big Herman" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.212.180.88 (talk) 02:07, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Interesting if true. Do you have a source for your assertion? BrainyBabe (talk) 18:44, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

If you mean the Grande Hermine, then yes, that was one of the ships. But it means the "Big/Great Ermine", not the "Big Herman". Casey Goranson (talk) 05:54, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Added refimprove template

I've added a template to this article in order to improve the references and sources it uses, and to improve the parts (particularly about the voyages) that are not sourced. It also appears that much of the information comes from encyclopedias, which is against Wikipedia policy (see WP:PSTS). SweetNightmares (talk) 02:57, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Not in French Version

Reading the versions in both languages, I discovered that something said to be a direct quote was only mentioned in the English version:In the words of the commission, he was to "discover certain islands and lands where it is said that a great quantity of gold and other precious things are to be found." Would not the commission itself be written in French? This statement seems to be inaccurate.

Not in French Version

Reading the versions in both languages, I discovered that something said to be a direct quote was only mentioned in the English version: "discover certain islands and lands where it is said that a great quantity of gold and other precious things are to be found." Would not the commission itself be written in French? This statement seems to be inacurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.3.51.41 (talk) 02:50, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Jaques Cartier is a sailor from Portland, France.He voyaged South America in search for lakes.He discovered lake Monroe.It is a great lake used for porting and importing goods used as fish,fabrics,food,etc.He is a great man who did many good deeds in our world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.45.112.119 (talk) 02:20, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Youwillruinme, 16 December 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} Please change " To add to the discomfort, scurvy broke out — first among the Iroquoians, and then among the French. In his journal, Cartier states that by mid-February, "out of 110 that we were, not ten were well enough to help the others, a pitiful thing to see". Cartier estimated the number of natives dead at 50. In February almost the entire company were effected by the disease and many of them died before the survivors learned from the Indians that the bark of a white spruce tree boiled in water would afford a cure." to " To add to the discomfort, scurvy broke out — first among the Iroquoians, and then among the French. Cartier estimated the number of natives dead at 50. In his journal, Cartier states that by mid-February, "out of 110 that we were, not ten were well enough to help the others, a pitiful thing to see". In February almost the entire company were effected by the disease and as many as 25 of them died before the survivors learned from the Indians that the bark of a white spruce tree boiled in water would afford a cure."

For the number 25, please add this source: H.P. Biggar. The Voyages of Jacques Cartier. Ottawa: Publications of the Public Archives of Canada. No. 11. 1924, p. 204.

Youwillruinme (talk) 23:15, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

 Done  Chzz  ►  22:45, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Yuting9, 29 May 2011

I have learned that Jacques Cartier lied to the mi'kimaq about the cross being an irrelevant landmark, so the chief won't be upset. Can you edit that in please?

Yuting9 (talk) 17:38, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --Wintonian (talk) 02:30, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

I recall learning the same information in school - Chief Donnacona understood what the cross and the ceremony meant (i.e. Cartier was claiming the territory for France) and was upset by it. Cartier proceeded to tell the Chief that the cross was just a landmark, which was very likely disingenuous. A good source for this information is on pg xxiii-xxiv in the Introduction in The Voyages of Jacques Cartier by HP Biggar.