Talk:Lego Mindstorms

Where is information about the RCX?

There is nothing about the RCX. Shouldn't something be added? -- TimRI 22:22, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

ok is goed

German translation

I have translated this site into German and postet it. --Anonymous

Great; spread the good vibes. :) --Wernher 17:01, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

C example, context

Who wrote the C example? And what is the context? (Meaning, is it Not Quite C? Or in C++ for the SDK?) --Astronouth7303 13:49, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure if I wrote it or just refined it, but I think it's NQC. Perhaps we should double-check it, so I'll just write a NQC-veteran friend of mine and ask him. As for the context, I'm not quite sure of what you mean? It's kind of explained in the lead-in to the ex., isn't it? Just a simplistic stub to show how one might control a motor. --Wernher 02:35, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Proper title

Hmm, I've been surfing around a little at the official LEGO MINDSTORMS site, and not one place do I see them use anything else than LEGO®MINDSTORMS™ all capitalized. So perhaps we should change the article title accordingly ( w/o the trademarks. of course :) ). We'd redirect from 'Lego Mindstorms' / 'LEGO Mindstorms' anyway. --Wernher 02:42, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Update: Also, regarding my recent rv of an edit changing all "LEGO" words to "Lego", all instances of the word---both in the company name and in product names---are uppercase. Unless a very good point is made of changing to a non-standard usage (i.e., contrary to the company's own), let's keep it the way it is. --Wernher 16:26, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

No; the word Lego is not an acronym, so it doesn't get all caps. It doesn't matter how a company "officially" capitalizes it. We have no obligation to violate our own capitalization conventions simply because they want us to. Many companies "officially" capitalize all their brand names (like for example DORITOS) but we do not need to make our encyclopdia look stupid and not follow standard capitalization conventions for words. See the previous discussion on Talk:LEGO. Nohat 18:38, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Unless you want The LEGO Group to use legal action to shut this site down, we have an obligation to abide by the legal requirements of the use of their trademarks. LEGO is LEGO in spite of any silly self imposed rules. So, yes, the work LEGO DOES get all caps, go read their legal statments. The title to the page needs to be corrected, LEGO must be capitalized. dwfunk 10 May 2006

This topic has been finished (see Nohat's comments above). The Wikipedia community will decide what will be on their site. If Lego sues, then the community may consider that new development. Until then, it stays as Lego, not LEGO. Thats a wiki! -Reuvenk_[T][C] 16:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

"Creations"

I removed the section with the above title, containing the following text:

"Because of the incredible versatility of the lego line and the RCX brick, the creation possibilities are virtually endless. A few things that have been built with the Mindstorms set include a Rubik"

The idea for the section isn't bad at all---a list of (concisely described, and impressive/instructive (as well as some oddball(?))) creations made of LEGO Mindstorms---but the present contents, as quoted above, must be said to be too incomplete for inclusion. In a more complete form, I'd say the section might be a relevant addition to the article. --Wernher 17:01, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

I've taken a stab at updating the creations section, see below. Please consider it for inclusion. Thanks! 70.121.240.33 (talk) 04:57, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Creations

Because of the incredible versatility of the Lego line and the RCX and NXT bricks, the creation possibilities are virtually endless. A few things that have been built with the Mindstorms set include a Rubik's Cube Solver, a UAV, and many other robotic creations. The following Lego Mindstorms creations are examples of projects that are possible with the NXT. The article links include enough information for you to build the models yourself:

The NXT Way

Inspired by the first Lego Segway, this NXT Robot balances on two wheels. The following site contains detailed instructions and source code for building the project: http://www.philohome.com/nxtway/nxtway.htm

HiTechnic IR RC Car

HiTechnic's IR RC Car combines Lego Power Functions and NXT to create a simple RC Car. The following site contains detailed instructions and source code for building the project: http://www.hitechnic.com/models

Guitar Challenge Game

This project uses the NXT to act both as an electric guitar and a game. The following site contains detailed instructions and source code for building the project: http://www.nxtprograms.com/NXT2/guitar_game/index.html

RoboFlush

RoboFlush is a simple robot that automatically flushes a toilet. The following site contains detailed instructions and source code for building the project: http://www.battlebricks.com/roboflush/

NXTDuneBuggy

NXTDuneBuggy is a fully remote controlled Dune Buggy built from a single LEGO Mindstorms NXT retail set. The following site contains detailed photos for building the project: http://mocpages.com/moc.php/68758

I suppose that Wernher feels that "ditto" is a valuable footnote

Please explain. --Anonymous

Indeed --- I admit I should've done so when I reverted the footnote change. The "ditto" was put there to refer to the first footnote (nr 1, as of this writing), because the particular implementation of footnotes that I used didn't allow two footnote markers to refer to the same footnote. But thanks to your complaint here, I had another look at WP:FN, and discovered that a new scheme had been made, which rectifies that problem. So, I've now fixed this article accordingly. Thanks! :) --Wernher 03:43, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Nxt release date

Isn't the release date for Nxt June 30.

Yes, the item shipped on July 1, 2006 from lego.com(.ca)'s online store.--24.235.121.98 20:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Well then change something

New Message: I was IN Legoland CA on JULY 4 2006, and They were selling NXT. Also, I visited LegoLand on JUNE 28 and they had signs up that they would sell NXT on July 1. --68.115.107.1 19:16, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Lego NXT merged here

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lego NXT. Johnleemk | Talk 06:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC) Lego NXT needs to have its own page. It's a totally different kit with different functionality. JettaMann 16:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I second this. --The Editor1111 12:16, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I, too, agree on this. --Wernher 22:07, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. It is still a Lego Mindstorms product. The Editor 2 14:36, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree that it is still Mindstorms, but its a whole new generation of it.

What if there is a page for Mindstorms(old) and one for Mindstorms NXT? -- --KennethSchnautz07 22:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea, Kenneth. I personally don't think there needs to be seperate pages for all the Lego robotic products, it's too confusing to have the information spread out. But if we only had two pages as well as links from one to the other, it'd be easier. God bless, Captain Vimes 22:12, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Light Sensor

I was looking at Lego's site for the NXT set and I noticed on the page for the new light sensor ( http://mindstorms.lego.com/Overview/Light_Sensor.aspx ) that it appeared to still only be monochromatic, but the article says that it can detect color. Is this correct? Mythmon 17:28, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

It probablly means that the amount of light it gets is changed into rough colors, like colorblind people can sometimes distinguish between colors.

The supplied LEGO light sensor with the NXT uses an IR phototransistor and a red LED, as did the old one. What has changed is that you can toggle the LED on or off and still get valid readings from the phototransistor (unlike the old one). So you have the possibility of getting a reflectance reading under read LED illumination, and ambient reading as well. There's more color information in there, but it needs to be teased out, and it's still somewhat limited. -- Brian Davis

Wrong names

As the site looks now, it gives the impression that LEGO Mindstorms is two releases: One called RCX and one called NXT. That is wrong. LEGO Mindstorms is several different products, for exaple:

• Robotics invention system (contains RCX)
• NXT
• Spybotics
• Robotics Discovey set (contains Scout)
• Droid's developer kit (contains MicroScout)
• Vision Command (extension to RIS and others)

and so on...

The original Mindstorms RCX was released in 1998. No, The original Mindstorms RIS was released in 1998. The RCX has had very few and minor changes through the years, but the RIS set (primerly the software) has changed a lot.

We should write about each system under each product name as in the swedish Mindstorms page. 213.65.243.16 18:18, 18 July 2006 (UTC)(wikiolle in swedish wp)

Bluetooth version

Does anyone know the version of Bluetooth supported by NXT? I've been unable to discover this online so far. I would like to know, as it'll guide my decision when purchasing a USB Bluetooth dongle for my PC. --Drewnoakes 10:16, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Added the missing Pbricks

Cybermaster, Codepilot, Micro Scout and Spybotics aren't Mindstorms exactly, but they are a vital part of the history (and reality).

They should have their own entries but I'm not qualified to write them. So it's better to have 'em here, than nowhere at all. Hdw 00:21, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Disturbing Exclusion

I am disturbed that although the main product was the RIS series, and they are mentioned, there is no section for them. RIS was around for 8 years before NXT, and it doesn't have it's own section? That just seems wrong to me. The Editor 2 14:39, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I guess nobody cares.... I'll have to do it. When I have time, that is. The Editor 2 22:18, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The section on the RIS would be way more important than NXT (at least for now) since RIS has been around for a lot more time than NXT. Slartibartfast1992 19:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Older is more important? Does that mean gliders are more important than airplanes? I see what you mean though. There has been more time for information to accumulate for the RIS/RCX, so its document would contain more information. God bless, Captain Vimes 22:20, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Also missing are the RIS expansion packs, like robosports, the animals one (forgot the name) and the Mars one. and theres the accessory pack, with the remote control. They don't need much about them, but they ought to be mentioned. OktoberSunset (talk) 16:21, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

RCX Brick

Why does the NXT Brick have an article, and yet the RCX 1.0 and 2.0 do not? Shouldn't there be documentation of the RCX and how it has changed (1.0 to 2.0)?

Disadvantages of Lego Mindstorms NXT

The section on Lego Mindstorms NXT, basiclly says "this is the best product". It doesn't mention any disadvantages compared to other robot platforms. It is simply an advertisemnet for this product...Jidan 16:20, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. The NXT has been improved and IS the better product in almost every way. The only disadvantage I see is the studless building technique which could also be an advantage depending on how you look at it. Give me some other disadvantages and I might see it your way. Matt Fay 00:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

insufficient procesing power for vision processong, very few ports (i think 4 input, 4 outputs), battery finishes quickly coz power consumption is not efficient,...these are just some. But its still great for learning, and LEGO technic makes it easy to build mechanical parts. I am building right now a robot with the same goals i.e., easy to use, good for learning, same price level, but without these disadvantages. Nope, I am not a magician ;-) Jidan 00:18, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually the NXT has more ports than the RCX and the other Lego Pbricks. The NXT ports are also digital. You can't really compare them to the other non-lego platforms because they are a very different type of robotic platform. I don't quite understand what you mean by vision processing. Are you referring to the Lego camera? It is controlled by the PC not the RCX. Lastly the great power consumption the motors take up is due to the high torque they produce. Matt Fay 17:24, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

yeah, it has some disadvanteges, but still better than the others. 76.79.221.95 (talk) 22:53, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

There are more serious disadvantages:

• incompatible cable connectors that need to be purchased from LEGO and are costly, without any good reason (except, perhaps, avoiding the risk of American citizens plugging in a phone cable, if it was compatible);
• messed-up bluetooth communication - they have invented an unreliable communication protocol on top of a reliable one - very stupid... (http://www.tau.ac.il/~stoledo/lego/btperformance.html)
• rechargeable battery module is too large, rendering many projects that are created for brick powered by AA cells useless, because the parts cannot be mounted when the battery module is obstructing the space under the brick
• early versions of firmware had a flaw in the firmware upgrade process, which was very impractical, fortunately, this has been fixed in later versions
• the software had many serious bugs (and still has some) making the work sometimes difficult, it is also not localized to many languages, making it difficult for kids who do not read English fluently to work with it
• the NXT-G software is not open-source!!! and you cannot build your own blocks without expensive commercial LabView licence :-(
• flash memory too small, 256KB is nothing. you can buy 4GB low cost flash disk, but they put 256 KB as the memory storage in a product released in 2006??? wtf?
• the original RCX touch sensor was an analogue sensor, the NXT touch sensor is a 0/1 switch :-(
• the support for user blocks in the software is poor: the blocks are saved into separate directory, and they are not copied when you save your project to a different disk or folder - this results in a lot of disappointment when you learn that you did not copy your user blocks
• big blunder: the program created in NXT-G does not have a textual representation, which would be easy to view, understand, debug, etc. (this is implied by the choice for using LabView kernel, which was a huge mistake)
• very little support for creating interactive projects that communicate with PC while the project runs

Anyway, I sill love it and use it every week. --158.195.89.93 (talk) 23:07, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

NXT

NXT currently redirects to a subsection of this article. It is also the name of an approach to loudspeaker design (see Loudspeaker#NXT). What kind of disambiguation would be appropriate? --Malcohol 13:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

OK. I've created a disamiguation page at NXT.--Malcohol 14:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

NI Link Spam

I really don't have a clue why a link to the manufacturer of the NXT brick operating software, National Instruments, is considered "link spam". The NXT Toolkit for LabVIEW provides tools to create LabVIEW applications that communicate with the NXT brick and to create actual NXT code blocks to extend the functionality of the software sold with the product. We've been fighting the "LabVIEW isn't a real language" for the past 20 years. Isn't this just anti-LabVIEW bias? --qswitch426 00:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with an "anti-LabVIEW" bias. I don't have an opinion if LabVIEW is a real language or not. The National Instruments linkspam removal is part of a much larger NI spam campaign. This was considered linkspam because of who and how it was added. This NI spam investigation is still in progress so I would appreciate it if you don't add those links back. If you question my intentions then please take a look at my contributions log. (Requestion 00:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC))

Curious... If you check my contributions log, I thought I was the contributor of the NI LabVIEW NXT Toolkit link on Jan 2 2007, as I use it in my classes at the University and I had several students and colleagues that asked for the link. I was unaware of an NI spam campaign. Thanks for the heads up. I will have to look into it. --qswitch426 12:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I have some time to fight the LabVIEW battle again... It is a FACT that the LEGO Mindstorms NXT-G programming environment is based on LabVIEW by National Instruments. The LabVIEW logo even appears on the Mindstorms NXT packaging. You can use LabVIEW to create NXT-G programs within the LabVIEW environment and download them to the NXT. You can also use LabVIEW to create OEM NXT-G programming blocks that can be used in the NXT-G environment to control unique sensors and controls. I've been using LabVIEW to program the NXT for over a year now and I can't fathom why fellow Wikipedians have such an adversion to mentioning LabVIEW... --qswitch426 11:37, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Compatibility

I'd like someone with insight to spread some light on which MindStorms sets are compatible with which?

I found my old LM RIS 1.5 and installed the software - it doesn't work with Windows XP. Was able to find a copy of version 2.0 and upgraded (including a RIS20XPPatch.zip. This makes it usable in Windows XP despite the 800x600 resolution. I also got a version of Robolob 2.54 and that also seems to work, though the "program language" is different from the RIS. Is the NXT software compatible with the RCX?

And for hardware - I have the Droid Developer Kit but that only has one brick with a built-in motor. I also have the CyberMaster which features a tower (which I would expect should work just like the one included in RIS), a motor and two touch sensors + cables which should all be compatible with RIS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.225.4.254 (talk) 23:31, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

what on earth....

what happened to the page!? everything from scout down (and including scout) has dissapeared!!!81.108.233.59 (talk) 08:05, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

ambiguous sentence

I find the following sentence ambiguous (introductory section):

The only difference between the educational series, known as the "Challenge Set", and the consumer series, known as the "Inventor Set", is another included light sensor and several more gearing options.

Which one has the added features, the Challenge Set or the Inventor Set? Can someone please clarify this? Kanapeaz (talk) 18:17, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Scout SDK

Where can I find the scout SDK? 75.169.131.209 (talk) 01:31, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

MinT 2.0

Someone needs to add the new stuff about the 2nd version, Mindstorms NXT 2.0 76.79.221.95 (talk) 22:55, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Pre-Mindstorms Pbricks and interfaces

The earlier pre-mindstorms Pbricks and interfaces should perhaps be put in it's own article regarding the history/development of Lego Mindstorms/technic products. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.143.68.82 (talk) 11:55, 28 May 2011 (UTC)