Talk:Early modern period

Addition Needed

"Early modern" is a term used in literary criticism instead of "Renaissance", because critics (or critics who use the term) prefer to see the literature they analyze as "looking forward" instead of being "reborn". I am not sure how to expand the article to include such, and I would like comments. If someone happens to have a suggest, please find my talk page, as I might overlook comments here. Ottava Rima (talk) 05:11, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Two centuries

I note a problem with the introductory paragraph: It begins 'a term ... roughly from 1500 to 1800 ' then goes on to say 'This categorical era spans the two centuries'. This is apparently contradictory. I will remove the reference to 'two centuries' unless anyone objects. - Crosbiesmith (talk) 09:04, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

text moved; readd as needed

• 1444

The invention of the first European movable type printing process by Johannes Gutenberg, a device that fundamentally changed the circulation of information. Movable type had also been invented in, but not known outside of, China. Though it allows individual characters to be arranged to form words, it is an invention separate from the printing press, and does not allow the same widespread use and reproduction rate.

• 1453

The conquest of Constantinople by the Ottomans signaled the end of the Byzantine empire; the Battle of Castillon concluded the Hundred Years War.

• 1485, England

The last Plantagenet king, Richard III, was killed at Bosworth and the medieval civil wars of aristocratic factions gave way to early modern Tudor monarchy, in the person of Henry VII.

• 1486

Giovanni Pico della Mirandola publishes his "900 Theses" (Conclusiones philosophicae, cabalasticae et theologicae) and his defence of them, Oration on the Dignity of Man. These are regarded as the first modern humanist works.

• 1492, France and Germany

The first documented European voyage to the Americas by the Italian-Portuguese explorer Christopher Columbus; the end of the Reconquista, with the final expulsion of the Moors from the Iberian Peninsula; the Spanish government expels the Jews.

• 1494, France, Italy

French king Charles VIII invaded Italy, drastically altering the status quo and beginning a series of wars which would punctuate the Italian Renaissance.

• 1517

The Reformation begins with Martin Luther nailing his ninety-five theses to the door of the church in Wittenberg, Germany.

• 1532

First formulation of modern politics with the publication of Machiavelli's The Prince.

• 1545

The Council of Trent marks the end of the medieval Roman Catholic Church.

• 1648

The Peace of Westphalia ends the Thirty Years War.

---

EOF. J. D. Redding 00:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Structure

Lifted the European/Western section again to the top, since early modernity is by all accounts a historical development which originated in Europe and was driven by European political, economic, ideological, religious and military trends. Removed the section on indigenous American states and peoples. While these political entities, from a purely chronological point of view, continued to exist into the early modern period, that is into the 16th and partly 17th century, none of them underwent a modern transformation, but generally remained pre-Colombian in outlook and character until absorbed by the Spanish Empire (for that, see section "Colonial expansion and possessions"). Gun Powder Ma (talk) 22:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Historians refer to the period beginning in AD 1453 and lasting to AD 1789

That is a brave assertion! The start period is debatable- discovery of the new world is one that is often but not universally used and the French Revolution as the end point is also just one definition. Also could be arguaed as beginning and ending at different times in different places. Who are these "historians"? Judging by comments above, there used to be a move vague (and probably more appropriate) definition. Epeeist smudge (talk) 09:09, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Early modern history

Why does this article presume to write about non-European societies?

Since the "Early Modern Period" is ostensibly defined by cultural changes in Europe, why is there an attempt to write about non-European cultures in this article? They did not follow the same trends as Europeans and should not be said to be in the same period.

I'm not suggesting that Wikipedia should create a new period for those regions - that would be original research. I am, however saying that those cultures, instead of being conflated with the 'Early modern period', should only be written about in the articles for the periods that have been developed by historians specifically about those cultures. As it is this article is an example of original research and thus un-encyclopedic, because no serious historian would claim that Afghan or Indian &c. cultures experienced religious reformation or nationalism at this time, and yet that's exactly what the article implies by describing them in an article about a period characterized by those movements.

I propose that the text of the section on non-European cultures be replaced with links to their analogous periods, and the text of the article as a whole be we-worded so it does not refer to the world as a whole. Or perhaps the entire article could be deleted- isn't there already an article on Early Modern Europe?theBOBbobato (talk) 14:33, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

How the hell does it "implies by describing them in an article about a period characterized by those movements"? It does not. I believe you are reading what you want into the article, as the article doesn't do that.

Anyways, these cultures existed in early part of modern history. This is NOT about early Modern Europe alone; It's about the early modern world (read 'after the end of the middle ages'). If this article is to be removed, then the content should goto the modern history article.

As a last note, please read Wikipedia:Abundance and redundancy. --J. D. Redding 00:49, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

I have asked myself the same thing.

There should be a difference between the Early modern period article, and the concatenation of the 16th century, 17th century and 18th century articles.

Non-Western cultures should here be discussed only inasmuch as they were affected, or in turn did affect, Early Modern developments (Jesuit mission springs to mind as an example).

So it would make sense to merge Early Modern Europe with this article. --dab (𒁳) 12:12, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Dbachmann, when ya edit the article as here ... it's not really good.--J. D. Redding 00:34, 8 July 2011 (UTC) (PS, you should probably read Wikipedia:Abundance and redundancy too.)

Early Modern Europe should be merged into the Early modern period article, if there is any merging. Not the other way around.

The 'Early modern period' article was "{{split}}" from the modern history article (IIRC, when I wrote that article, it became to much to keep together ... (here was this article before) ... and the diff from the "split").

Non-Western cultures are part of the {{globalize}} need of wikipedia. --J. D. Redding 00:11, 8 July 2011 (UTC) (PS., otherwise, this information needs to be put back into the modern history article.)

Reddi, I know you have difficulties understanding this, but the {{globalize}} thing only applies within WP:DUE. You cannot write an article about the Early Modern Congo, because there was no Early Modern Congo. You can "globalize" a topic that has in principle a global scope. You cannot "globalize" the history of the Philippines article, because its title says it is about the Philippines. On the same grounds, you cannot "globalize" an article about a historical cultural phenomenon that was not in fact "global". It is really very simple.

Seriously, we urgently need to give up on the notion that "Early Moedern period" somehow equals "everything that happened in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries" (or that "Middle Ages" should treat "everything that happened between AD 500 and 1500"). What we need to do instead is work on raising the quality of our "century" articles. 16th century, 17th century, 18th century, these articles could become well-written, coherent articles with a worldwide scope. As long as they are just listcruft, people like Reddi are going to try and subsume "world history of the 17th century" in the "Early Modern period" article just because the lead says that this period includes the 17th century. --dab (𒁳) 11:25, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

If I might intervene a bit here, I'm in training as an historian of the 17th/18th centuries and would like to note that there actually is a compelling recent argument in scholarship that "early modern world" is a legitimate unit of analysis which doesn't just apply to Europe. This is largely based on the fact that the extension of European empires and trading companies in the post-Columbus period created global-level changes (in consumption of foods and goods, disease environments, cultural practices, etc.). But historians like Sanjay Subrahmanyam at UCLA have also argued that advanced polities like those of South Asia can be regarded as "early modern" in the sense that they underwent political, economic and technological developments that were comprable to those of Western Europe in the same period. I'd point to Giancarlo Casale's The Ottoman Age of Exploration (Oxford University Press, 2010) for more on this, and several of Subrahmanyam's articles, such as "Connected Histories: Notes towards a Reconfiguration of Early Modern Eurasia." Its true that historians don't talk about "early modern Fiji," but they in fact do talk about "early modern Japan" or "early modern India," as a quick Google search will demonstrate. Just my two cents -- and my apologies for not posting this properly; I have a username but I'm not active on Wikipedia these days. - Ben