Talk:North Macedonia/Archive 19

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"Greek Macedonia" versus "Macedonia in Greece"

I have reverted a change of "Greek Macedonia" to "Macedonia in Greece". The reason I have done this is linguistic interpretation of the modifier in English. While the two expressions may seem roughly equivalent on the surface, they are different semantically and pragmatically. Semantically, "Greek Macedonia" means that it is Macedonia that is fundamentally Greek, while "Macedonia in Greece" means that it is fundamentally Macedonia that happens to be located in Greece. Pragmatically, we tend to place the element to emphasize first, therefore "Greek Macedonia" emphasizes its fundamental Greekness while "Macedonia in Greece" emphasizes its fundamental "Macedonianness". Thus, if we place "Macedonia" first and use a locative prepositional phrase that divorces its fundamental nature from Greece, we push a Macedonian POV that is at the heart of the Macedonia/Greece naming dispute. If, however, we place "Greek" first and use an attributive form that emphasizes the province's fundamentally Greek nature, then we keep the political status quo as it is--Greek Macedonia is part of Greece. --Taivo (talk) 13:41, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 77.28.186.230, 30 December 2010

{{edit semi-protected}}

Edit the Gini coefficient on the English page. In the CIA report from 2003 it is 39 (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2172.html), instead of 29.3 that is current. If you have proof of calculation please present it to be reviewed.

Cacevski (talk) 13:02, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

 Done ThemFromSpace 14:20, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Infobox flag link

Currently, the link in the infobox under the flag points to the disambiguation page. Does anyone know a way to direct it straight to the appropriate page? It's a bit disconcerting. (Coat of arms leads to a redirect, but that is less of an issue.) Chipmunkdavis (talk) 13:45, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

 Done  Andreas  ^(T) 14:54, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Magnisima, 4 March 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} Hi, all, I would like to address an issue that appear for this article. I would like to point to you that this same article in macedonian language states different facts. example: mentioning of Macedonian Empire, which in the English version doesn't appear. Tsar Samuil in the English version is Tsar Samuil of Bulgaria, but in macedonian version the macedonian feudal country is called Samuil's kingdom. By the way no mentioning of such a country in the English version. Please revise the macedonian version. --Magnisima (talk) 10:19, 4 March 2011 (UTC) Magnisima (talk) 10:19, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

We cannot decide about editing the mk-wiki article from here. If you want to change anything on mk-wiki, you need to go and edit there. If you want to change anything in our own article, please say what. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:24, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Was FYROM in ancient world in the territory of Paeonia?

To my mind FYROM in ancient history was at the land of Paeonia and not in ancient Macedonia!688dim (talk) 11:39, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Both Macedonia's were at one point part of Paeonia, so says our article. The point? Chipmunkdavis (talk) 12:12, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

There was no FYROM in the ancient world. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 12:17, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

The real question is when did the Slavic people called Macedonians arrive where they are now? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 03:35, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

When they arrived they were tribes rather than people, and definitely not "called Macedonians". What they were is just that, Slavic tribes who had their distinct tribal names and who are ancestors (part of the ancestors anyway, along with others) of the modern ethnic Macedonians. Apcbg (talk) 05:35, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't answer the q I'm afraid. Alright, how about this then. When did the people from whom the modern Slavic people that call themselves Macedonians today descend arrive here? When did the ancestors of the modern people arrive? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 06:06, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

For all I know, in 5-7^th centuries AD Slavic people invaded the Balkan Peninsula and eventually settled all over the region including in particular what today is the territory of the Republic of Macedonia, Bulgaria and most of Greece (down south to the Peloponnese Peninsula) to contribute to the ethnogenesis of the modern nations in those countries during the subsequent centuries (over one millenia actually). Hope this helps. Apcbg (talk) 06:54, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that is helpful. =) Hmmm, what would be really good is an archaeological report though. One showing when there was a sudden change in the pottery (evidence a new civilisation has arrived) in the area. That would give a pretty good answer for me. =) Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 06:58, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Yet more naming threads
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
NPOV dispute Arbitrary use of the term "Republic of Macedonia", as imposed country name. Opposed to the UN 817 / 1993 security council resolution. No reliable sources are provided in the article to substatiate the international use of any name other than "Former Ygoslav Republic of Macedonia" as the reference name of the country. In addidtion there is an officiall VETO pedding upon the acceptance of the country in NATO under the impossed name "Macedonia" and derivatives. Since this constitutes a major international issue and imposses a direct violation of the afforementioned United Nations security council resolution, the use of the official "Former Ygoslav Republic of Macedonia" under which the country is internationally recognised and refferenced by the United Nations is suggested. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.242.35.65 (talk) 03:32, 14 August 2011 (UTC) Wikipedia does not follow the style guide of any external organisation, such as the UN, NATO, or EU. The current title of "Republic of Macedonia" was created in accordance with wikipedia policy and guidelines, notable WP:NPOV, and WP:DISAMBIGUATION. Please see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Macedonia). Chipmunkdavis (talk) 06:08, 14 August 2011 (UTC) Yet the fact remains: The article title violates the major NPOV rule imposing a non-existing Country Name not based on any reliable sources. It should be advisable for the authors and/or protecting administrator of the article to provide with solid citations to reliable sources substantiating the validity of the claim, or otherwise utilise the legitimate "Former Ygoslav Republic of Macedonia". Failure upon either could potentially foster bulk number of articles under misleading names; please do consider "Irish Republic of Edinburgh", "Dublin Republic of Great Britain", "Republic of Texas", which virtually present the same no-degree of validity and resemblance with aforementioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.242.35.65 (talk) 23:14, 14 August 2011 (UTC) Name I don;t want to see it again Macedonia. Macedonia is a greek Region. The country is called FYROM. Change it NOW. Thanks--ArgGeo (talk) 11:05, 14 August 2011 (UTC) Please see the section right above this one, and the big yellow notice at the very top of this article. By the way, your change to the "common_name" parameter technically broke the page. That parameter is not actually displayed anywhere, but only serves to get automatic links to the "Flag of..." and "Coat of arms of..." entries right. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:12, 14 August 2011 (UTC) NPOV dispute - 2 Yet the fact remains: The article title violates the major NPOV rule imposing a Country Name not being based on any reliable sources. It should be advisable for the authors and/or protecting administrator of the article to provide with solid citations to reliable sources substantiating the validity of the claim, or otherwise utilise the legitimate "Former Ygoslav Republic of Macedonia" for which the widest acceptable citation currently holds (United Nations naming convention). Failure upon either could potentially foster bulk number of articles under misleading titles; please do consider: "Irish Republic of Edinburgh", "Dublin Republic of Great Britain", "Republic of Texas"... which virtually present the same no-degree of validity and resemblance to the subject and the content with the aforementioned. On wikipedia most country articles are titled with the countries short form name, which in this case would be Macedonia. However, the need to disambiguate with the Greek region means that we use a longer name, "Republic of Macedonia", similar to the use of "Republic of Ireland" (although that is just a descriptor). The difference between "Republic of Macedonia" and the random examples you gave is the the name "Republic of Macedonia" is an official one used by the country and many that recognise it. Making random names does not help your argument. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 03:48, 15 August 2011 (UTC) Dispute This article violates Wikipedia guidelines. The official name of the country is "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia". "Wikipedia is not a soapbox, an advertising platform, a vanity press, an experiment in anarchy or democracy, an indiscriminate collection of informationItalic text, or a web directory." "Wikipedia is written from a neutral point of view.Italic text" Therefore, the name should be changed immediately to "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" if this entry is to be called "encyclopedic" and Wikipedia be taken seriously.Amadeus webern (talk) 23:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC) See WP:MOSMAC. This article is, indeed, titled according to Wikipedia policy. And "Former..." is not the official name of the country. According to its constitution, which is the official determinant of what a country's official name is, its name is officially "Republic of Macedonia". There is no other official name that counts. --Taivo (talk) 05:08, 15 August 2011 (UTC) Caution The only valid and widely accepted name for INTERNATIONAL USE of the country is the "Former Yougoslav Republic of Macedonia". Any other name or characterisation (i.e. "Republic of Macedonia") is intendeed STRICTLY FOR INTERNAL USE. Wikipedia is a universal and thus INTERNATIONAL mean of knowledge sharing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.140.110.215 (talk) 17:41, 15 August 2011 (UTC) Republic of Macedonia isn't just used by Macedonians. The embassy of the UK for example, calls the country the Republic of Macedonia. Wikipedia is not about what is "valid". Anyway, the current title is the result of disambiguation, not the result of pushing a Macedonian point of view. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 17:49, 15 August 2011 (UTC) NPOV dispute Title and 1st paragraph missleading information: Please provide with reliable sources/citations to consolidate the claim that the country's international name has changed to "Republic of Macedonia". Otherwise do revise and refer to it with its official interational name "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_817 which is currently the official international (UN index) http://www.undemocracy.com/S-RES-817%281993%29.pdf name of the country. 91.140.126.157 (talk) 16:06, 18 August 2011 (UTC)