Talk:Masculism

What Has Gone Before

Archived Talk: /Archive01

vice/domestic vice

It always amuses me that we men allow feminists to tar us, rightly, with violence/domestic violence claims but we make no counterclaims about female use of sex as a weapon. Is there a place for a piece on Vice/domestic vice here?

This is an encyclopedia article on an ideology, so unless there is a reference within or around the ideology about this, I don't see much that has not been covered more thoroughly in domestic violence. The Lysistrata question is a separate one, which is covered to a certain extent within rape culture, but other than tedious he-said/she-said or assertions that "she was asking for it," I don't really see how it is relevant. Perhaps one of the external links would be a better place to note and expand on these views. A useful guideline for such questions generally is the article What Wikipedia is not. You might also find a forum through Wikinfo at [1] Thanks for asking. Rorybowman 18:26, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

suicide

I subtly changed the wording under the criticisms section. It's important we be sensitive - directly linking suicide to "macho" trivializes the reasons people kill themselves. I understand what the writer is saying - that macho attitudes may prevent a person from seeking help - but it needed to be changed slightly.

I'd like to add that I think the section misunderstands suicide in general. First of all, the statistics that show women make far more attampts and men have far more success - consider that an unsuccessful woman will live to make possibly many more attempts, whereas a successful man dies the first time. One woman, then, may make 10 non-successful attempts during her lifetime, whereas a man may die the first time. This alone may account for the statistical difference in attempts.

Furthermore, suicide is often linked to mental illness, with men suffering more of the most serious mental illnesses such as schizophrenia. I think this is more significant than "machismo." If it were really a matter of not seeking help, wouldn't that also apply to women who attempt suicide rather than seeking help?

The whole section on criticisms seems to be more of one person's feminist-oriented opinion rather than a referenced list of criticisms (although the rest of the article is somewhat like that too). Some of the points are not criticisms of masculism at all. There are many legitimate criticisms outside of the writer's view. The whole article could use more objectivity; it's too much of a sounding board (I confess to have contributed to this). 24.64.223.203 10:26, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Sounds weird

Shouldn't this be masculinism and masculinists instead of masculists and masculism? Google thinks so [2]. They all sound dumb imho, but the first pair, less so. Are these even noted in a dictionary yet anyway?--Deglr6328 09:14, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but I think it's because there's a movement called "Masculinism" that someone trademarked and a lot a "masculits" disagree with some of the ideas it puts forth.12.17.189.77 04:05, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Misogyny?

I challenge anyone to cite a single author, a self-described opponent of masculism, who argues that masculism is misogynistic. It is virtually impossible to derive the allegation from the article. --Thomi 16:02, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Was your last sentence meant to be sarcastic? Are you saying that masculinism is misogynistic? I read that in the article, and I'm really close to just scrapping the statement as more feminazi rant. On the other hand, if someone were to tell me that the feminist movement infringes on the rights of males, then I would wholeheartedly agree with them, so I guess I'll leave it. Salva 00:23, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

It definitely was not meant to be humorous or insulting. At this point, the reference to misogyny is a little bit of a potential cheap shot in favour of feminism. Some may think this and some may think that, for now, the section is suspect. What I'm saying is that masculism, as far as this article description goes, is not misogynistic. --Thomi 20:26, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikibullshit

In general, the preponderance of gender-balanced scientific and empirical evidence consistently finds no significant differences (i.e. > 4%) between the sexes in any of human nature's most fundamental attributes. In other words, males and females are equally intelligent, achievement-oriented, emotional/empathic, compassionate/loving, phsically/psychologically violent, dominant/aggressive, and so forth overall. The sexes certainly tend to express these most basic underlying characteristics very differently on the surface, but these equalize themselves as well. Thus, every positive or negative quality exhibited in one of the sexes is inevitably offset by a similar trait in the other sex.

Sounds like feminazi rant to me. Do we have a citation for this? I just read in TIME not long ago that men scored higher than women on standardized tests, etc. If the femo-communists that run TIME admit it themselves, then it must be true... Salva 00:18, 22 March 2006 (UTC)