Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China/Archive 18

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Editing Request

I need to request that someone with more editing experience than myself (that is, almost anyone) edit the examples given on the Wikipedia:WikiProject China/Assessment page, in order to verify whether these examples currently reflect the definitions of their respective classes. The example given for "stub"-class articles, the Wu Hu Uprising, does not currently seem to meet the definition given for "stub". Also, the example given for "start"-class articles, Luo Guanzhong, does a better job referencing sources than the example for "C"-class articles, Gan Ning, so I am unsure if either of these articles are currently appropriate examples of their respective classes.

I am hoping to review some articles currently classified as "stubs" which are obviously not stubs, but I am not completely sure which categories they should fit in. I would appreciate the assistance of anyone more senior than myself in reviewing the given examples. Thanks.Ferox Seneca (talk) 10:56, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Regional differences in the Chinese language

Regional differences in the Chinese language has been nominated for deletion. 65.93.14.196 (talk) 06:34, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Standard Chinese

Standard Chinese is being moved back and forth, while under an active move discussion... 65.93.14.196 (talk) 13:23, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Simplifications to written Chinese in Hong Kong

Simplifications to written Chinese in Hong Kong has been nominated for deletion. 65.93.14.196 (talk) 06:24, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Opposition to the Guangzhou-Hong Kong Express Rail Link

Opposition to the Guangzhou-Hong Kong Express Rail Link has been nominated for deletion. 65.93.13.210 (talk) 03:56, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Re-assessment Request

Hi, I'm requesting a re-assessment and importance rating for the article Ejin Horo Banner. I have significantly expanded it, added references, images, etc. I didn't see anyplace else to list this type of request. Thanks! Boneyard90 (talk) 17:27, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

After giving it some thought, I assessed it as C class. It is right on the cusp between C and Start, though, in my opinion. It still needs more comprehensiveness and balance in terms of content, and more sources.--Danaman5 (talk) 12:54, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Copyright concerns related to your project

This notice is to advise interested editors that a Contributor copyright investigation has been opened which may impact this project. Such investigations are launched when contributors have been found to have placed non-free copyrighted content on Wikipedia on multiple occasions. It may result in the deletion of images or text and possibly articles in accordance with Wikipedia:Copyright violations. The specific investigation which may impact this project is located at Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/Arilang1234.

All contributors with no history of copyright problems are welcome to contribute to CCI clean up. There are instructions for participating on that page. Additional information may be requested from the user who placed this notice, at the process board talkpage, or from an active CCI clerk. Thank you. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 17:44, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

New articles

Hey, would someone take a look at Cheng Jianping, see if I missed any cultural/geographical details, slap a China project tag on it, and give it a rating? Thanks! Ocaasi (talk) 09:53, 22 January 2011 (UTC) I've written some others. Here's the list:

• Cheng Jianping
• Lan Zhixue
• Shibali River Women's Labour Camp
• Hua Chunhui

Thanks. Ocaasi (talk) 21:18, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Chinese Language

Old Chinese and Middle Chinese has a problem. The dates don't close to overlap. Old Chinese claims to end at 9 AD, However Middle Chinese starts 6th century AD... So you have a few hundred years to account for. Please repair this.--76.169.133.154 (talk) 04:52, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Confirmation of Chinese name in Chinese characters

I just need to confirm that the Chinese name taken by Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), Lu Tian Na, is indeed 陸天娜. The source for Lu Tian Na is here, but the article makes no mention of the name's equivalent in Mandarin characters (okay, there's a picture of a kid with a sign, but I can't read those characters...). If somebody could help out, that would be great! Thanks. upstateNYer 01:50, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Mandarin characters? what's that?

And of course most articles in English will not give quoted mention of non-Latin script.

As far as I can see, what you gave is exactly (yes) what the sign reads. To confirm the pinyin romanisation, copy the characters into a site dedicated to Mandarin such as this one, or even Google Translate. To use Google Translate, select either Chinese-Traditional or Chinese-Simplified as the second language, and then click "show romanisation". --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 01:56, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Looking at the Chinese versions of the article, [1] and [2] , 陸天娜 is in traditional characters and 陆天娜 simplified. There's also a reference which gives the characters if you're looking for one.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 02:37, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

陸天娜 (陆天娜) and Lu Tian Na (Lu Tian-na/Lu Tian-Na) should redirect to her article. 65.93.15.80 (talk) 05:59, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Redirects created for Chinese character names. Do we really need the redirects for the other pinyin variants? Note that Lu Tianna already exists as a redirect to her article, and that is how Chinese names are typically rendered.--Danaman5 (talk) 22:20, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

The photo clearly shows Lu Tian Na, and considering she stayed in Taiwan for some of her time, the format used there is different. 64.229.101.119 (talk) 04:41, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

OK, created.--Danaman5 (talk) 01:33, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Special state-to-state relations

The article Special state-to-state relations has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Article does not establish the significance, and has remained essentially one sentence for six years.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. —Felix the Cassowary 13:46, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Hsiao-Lan Wang

An article on Tiwanese composer Hsiao-Lan Wang has been proposed for deletion, for anyone who would like to join the discussion. Pkeets (talk) 22:25, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Schools of Chinese Tea Ceremony

• Schools of Chinese Tea Ceremony, needs references.

icetea8 (talk) 11:55, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Regional differences in the Chinese language

FYI, note the move request listed here. --rgpk (comment) 22:02, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

March Assessment Drive

We are down to only 1,779 articles tagged with the WPCHINA banner that are still unassessed. What do people think of the idea of planning an assessment drive for the month of March to knock out the remainder? It's not that many articles, and with everyone pitching in, we could easily get it done in a month. If people are interested, I can create a subpage and whatnot.--Danaman5 (talk) 05:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

if there is a cat for all those articles, then I say why not. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 05:20, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Yup, they're all in Category:Unassessed China-related articles.--Danaman5 (talk) 06:10, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Xining

Maybe enWP needs more on the Xining reform and the subsequent struggles. Zh has a series of articles dedicated to the reform alone. Even things like zh:農田水利法 got articles of their own. Kayau Voting IS evil 06:21, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Shanghai Portal

Would anyone be interested in making a Shanghai portal? zh:Portal:上海 and wuu:Portal:上海 exist WhisperToMe (talk) 12:47, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

oh. a portal, and not a WikiProject... though I have no roots in that region at all and have only visited the city once. Hopefully making the Portal does not require too much knowledge. seems I may have finally found a cure to my nomadic editing patterns...ZH-WIKI also has portals for a few of the provincial-level divisions and even a few sub-provincial cities. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 16:19, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I now live in Danyang city, i will try to take pics and update the articles of the Jiangsu/Shanghai area, holler if there is any request Megatonman (talk) 13:26, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Chinese people in Burma

Chinese people in Burma has been requested to be renamed, see talk:Chinese people in Burma. 65.95.14.96 (talk) 00:44, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Spelling help

Can someone check my Pinyin at Wife selling (Chinese custom)? Thanks! Kaldari (talk) 21:42, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

what is provided now (mai xiu) sounds like a [quite incorrect] literal translation containing the character 卖/賣, which means "to sell". I checked the Chinese Wikipedia's equivalent article on Wife selling (English custom), and the translation given is 販妻. If you could help by providing characters, which unfortunately many publications in English do not furnish, that would be great --HXL's Roundtable and Record 22:09, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

The only source I've found which mentions the original Chinese is Sex, Law, and Society in Late Imperial China, pages 57–64. There is one sentence which lists it as "yi cai mai xiu" instead of just "mai xiu", but I'm not sure if that is the correct term or not. Kaldari (talk) 22:24, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm just going to remove it from the article for now. Kaldari (talk) 22:24, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

and accordingly, delete the redirect mai xiu for now? --HXL's Roundtable and Record 22:58, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Looks like it's a translation of 以财买休, which appears in Yuan dynasty law code provisions about wife selling. The literal translation of "using money to buy divorce". --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 15:54, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I've added it to the article. What's the pinyin transliteration? Kaldari (talk) 00:45, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

yǐcáimǎixiū, assuming it's parsed as a single concept. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 18:45, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Nanyue and Nam Viet

Nanyue has been requested to be renamed again, see Talk:Nanyue. 65.95.14.96 (talk) 22:35, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Chinese-ordered English

This article, Chinese-ordered English, sounds like it should be about a sort of pidgin English or phenomenon amongst Chinese learners of English, but it's actually an essay about an educaitonal technique for teacihng Chinese. The technique, according to the article, is used in one institution. Apart form that claim, the rest of the article seems to be an essay or manual. It contained just one "see also" external link to a Tianya Wenda (a question-and-answer web forum) discussion, which I have removed on the basis that web forum discussions are not reliable sources. However, could other editors take a look and take a view about whether the article satisfies notability criteria and/or can be fixed up so that it is not an original research essay? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 15:51, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I have tagged it as textbook-like. Kayau Voting IS evil 15:55, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Massively expanding lists of High Schools

I have noticed on both this EN-Wiki and the ZH-Wiki sometimes excessive lists of high schools in (mostly prefecture-level) cities and even on some provincial articles. Hope this discussion will be able to reformulate guidelines on both the cities and provinces. My first take is that the longer lists belong in the District/County articles. --HXL's Roundtable and Record 15:53, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Requested move of Ji–Lu Mandarin

please give your input at that talk page --HXL's Roundtable and Record 18:37, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

PRC maritime warcraft prodded for deletion

A bunch of PROC maritime warcraft have been prodded for deletion. See Category:Proposed deletion as of 20 March 2011 . 184.144.166.85 (talk) 07:09, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chinese history/Translation of Han Dynasty titles

Please look over Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chinese history/Translation of Han Dynasty titles. Thanks. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 14:02, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Request for intervention: Chinese language

I yesterday added the General Chinese pronunciation of Chinese language, and balanced the non-neutral "language family"-claim to a neutral position. However, Nlu reverted my edits and explained it as reverting non-neutral materials in my user talk page.

Last week Nlu criticized me for my tit-for-tat attitude on repealing discussions that do not meet the Wikipedia policies and guidelined in Chinese Wikipedia, so in order not to worsen the situation, I here ask for intervention to the article Chinese language. Note that Nlu might have been angry in that he reverted balancing-claim and the General Chinese pronunciation altogether, leaving no comments.

I think one best solution concerning the article Chinese language is to use generally accepted claims: e.g. Chinese language is a written language, and a linguistic language family (or a family of spoken languages), with spoken intelligibility to varying degrees.

At least I don't think the Hindi language will not be written as “Hindi is a dialect of Hindu-Urdu”, and Min Nan Chinese will not be written as a language family consists of hundreds of languages. In rural China, spoken intelligibility may not be performed even between two villaged. ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 09:03, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks everyone!

––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 08:56, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

General Chinese

I suggest to add General Chinese Romanization to most China-related articles, for its neutrality among different spoken Chinese. ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 09:00, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

You've been adding these to the lead sentence of articles,[3][4] but GC isn't widely enough used to justify that prominence. Perhaps an entry in {{Infobox Chinese}} would be more suitable. Kanguole 08:56, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Wang Chen, Hubei for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Wang Chen, Hubei is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wang Chen, Hubei until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. - Pburka (talk) 23:49, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Revival of the debate between using Sea of Japan and East Sea

See WT:Naming_conventions_(Korean)/Disputed_names#Change_to_the_naming_convention; someone has requested a new discussion on the use of East Sea versus Sea of Japan.

As the East China Sea is also referred to as the East Sea, I thought you'd like to know.

65.93.12.101 (talk) 17:01, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Hong Kong English

At talk:Hong Kong English, a user is about to start pruning alot of information, due to reliability concerns. 65.93.12.101 (talk) 06:39, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Currency template

I have created a template for displaying chinese currency: {{CNY|5}} gives '5 CN元' . The purpose of the temppate is to give consistency (currently articles use many different symbols and formats) and also to be easier to type than ¥ or 元.

Which is the best format and symbols to display? Should they have a space between the number and the symbol?

1. ¥5 (conflict with Japanese yen).
2. 5¥
3. 5 CN¥
4. 5元
5. 5 CN元
6. 5 RMB
7. RMB 5
8. 5 CNY
9. CNY 5
10. 5円
11. 5 CN円
12. something else

Should the template link to Chinese yuan or Renminbi ?

I chose the name {{CNY}} because that is the official ISO 4217 code. {{RMB}} might also be appropriate but it currently redirects to {{RM bottom}} - nothing is using the RMB template, so perhaps we can change RMB to redirect to CNY.

Once all this is decided, should the results of the decisions be placed on the main project page?

Some useful links to read first are:

• Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Currencies
• Template talk:JPY (similar discussion for Japanese Yen {{JPY}}
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/Conventions#Currency (example of currency conventions)

Any thoughts?  Stepho  (talk) 02:56, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I think that {{RMB}} should be repurposed, since nothing is using it, and point to renminbi. CNY should stay pointed to Chinese yuan. We should use RMB when possible, and CNY when it's unclear which yuan, or it is a non RMB yuan. I prefer "CN¥", since I think the bare character "元" is likely to be confused with "円" for non-East-Asian audiences, and "¥" is more likely to be the Japanese Yen. 65.93.12.101 (talk) 05:37, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply - I was hoping for more replies but I'm thankful for your contribution. I got a little confused when you said non RMB yuan. The ISO 4217 code 'CNY' is very specific to China and can not be used by any other country. It's even more specific, if China changes it's currency then a new code could be allocated starting with the ISO 3166 country code 'CN'. So anybody using a template called {{CNY}} is explictly wanting the PRoC currency. Likewise, 'RMB' is only used as a currency in China. I would like very much to make {{CNY}} and {{RMB}} display exactly the same thing - even to the point of making {{RMB}} a redirect to the {{CNY}} (I've tried to use the ISO codes for all of the currency templates I have created).

I created {{CNY}} to display '5 CN元'. In retrospect, this may have been wrong because many readers will not have Chinese fonts loaded. In my own travels through China, I have seen 5¥, 5元, 5円 and RMB 5 in common use. To make it suitable for international readers and to avoid ambiguity with other Asian currencies, perhaps 'RMB 5' would be the best with a link to Renminbi. Thoughts?  Stepho  (talk) 00:59, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

RMB or CN¥ is preferable to "元"/CN元 ; font-issues and confusion. As for non RMB yuan, the Chinese yuan article clearly shows there are many other yuan from China, most pre-PRC. If you say that CNY is the RMB yuan, then so be it, but Russia has had atleast two different rubles since the collapse of the Soviet Union... so does each have a separate currently symbol? Thus my statement about non-RMB yuan and CNY usage. "CN" also refers to pre-PRC China, doesn't it? 65.93.12.101 (talk) 08:54, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I understand you now - the Chinese Yuan has many historical contexts, while the RMB is the current currency. According to ISO 4217, CNY is exactly equivalent to RMB. Any historical Chinese yuans would have to use a different code that starts with CN but have different third letters (ie not Y). ISO 4217 does not list any other Chinese yuans - probably because ISO 4217 is concerned about modern currency transactions. Any yuans from other countries would not start with CN - the Japenese Yen ('JPY' = JP + Y = Japan + yen) comes to mind. So any article using {{CNY}} or {{RMB}} are explicitly talking about RenMenBi. If no-one objects in the next few days, I will make {{CNY}} display 'RMB 5' with a link to Renminbi and make {{RMB}} redirect to {{CNY}}.  Stepho  (talk) 10:01, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I've made the changes to {{CNY}} and {{RMB}}. I'll wait a couple more days and then modify the main project page to show the agreed format and how to use the templates.  Stepho  (talk) 07:05, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I have reverted the change. The template {{RMB}} is used, but it is substituted when used. Alpha Quadrant ^talk 14:04, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

SN 1054

Help is needed in cleaning up SN 1054. It was recently greatly expanded (by 80kB!) from the French version of the article. Checking the Chinese astronomy and Chinese naming of records to comply with the names used on English wikipedia would be great. 65.93.12.101 (talk) 07:20, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Proposal to merge Great Flood (of China) into Yu the Great#Epic flood

I believe that the new article Great Flood (of China) should be merged into the section we already have on the subject at Yu the Great. Comments at Talk:Yu the Great#Merger proposal would be appreciated. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 20:21, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Bengbu Airport coordinates (and existence)

Could someone who is familiar with the Bengbu area perhaps clear up the coordinates question described at Talk:Bengbu_Airport? The coordinates in the article point to a location where there is no sign of there being an airport. An airport can be seen from satellite photos just south of that location at 32.930318°N 117.366943°E / 32.930318; 117.366943 but if you zoom in, it disappears (in Wikimapia, Acme, and Google Maps, but not in Google Earth). The poster of the {{geodata-check}} tag claims that the closer-in satellite photos are the more recent ones and implies that the airport no longer exists. There is another airport several km south of the city at 32.848731°N 117.319908°E / 32.848731; 117.319908 which is labeled in Wikimapia as both Bengbu Airport and Huainan Airport (it's easiest to see both polygons in Google Earth). The tag poster says the southern airport is a military field and if closely examined there are, indeed, signs of it being such. Regards, TRANSPORTERMAN (TALK) 15:41, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Taiwan TV Show Article

Hello, I'm not a member of this project and I do not know if material from Taiwan is within your scope. But I noticed a newly-created article about a TV show that needs a great amount of improvement (or maybe deletion). See Westside Story (TV series). Sincerely, --DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 19:57, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

There's a more specific project WP:TAIWAN, there's also WP:TV. 65.93.12.101 (talk) 04:52, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Template:RMB

{{RMB}} usage is under discussion, see Template talk:RMB. Also take note of the currency section above, on this talk page. 65.93.12.101 (talk) 09:20, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Tiananmen Square deletions

Image:Tianasquare.jpg and Image:Tiananmen Square protests.jpg have been nominated for deletion. 64.229.100.45 (talk) 07:03, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Image:TankMan.JPG has also been nominated for deletion. 65.94.45.160 (talk) 06:08, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Type 86

I noticed that Type 86 doesn't have a separate article outside of BMP-1, however, the Iranian reverse engineered version does have a separate article. As Type 86 development substantially diverged from the BMP-1 vehicle, shouldn't it have a separate article? 65.94.45.160 (talk) 06:52, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Undue?

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Rosie O'Donnell#Does the "Chinese language parody" merit inclusion or not?. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 21:29, 19 April 2011 (UTC) (Using {{pls}})

Tagging for WikiProject China Transportation

I am currently in progress of tagging articles for this project. If you are willing to help, please do. Should the WPCHINA tag remain or be removed? — PCB 22:46, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

There's no such thing as Wikipedia:WikiProject China Transportation. Do you mean Wikipedia:WikiProject Transportation in China? If so, see the section above. --Kleinzach 23:27, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

The project is inactive, and should be merged somewhere. A project with one active member is not an active project. 65.94.45.160 (talk) 07:37, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Just curious, but why does someone in Canada use an IP all the time? --Kleinzach 09:38, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Zhuang jia shan for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Zhuang jia shan is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zhuang jia shan until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. --HXL's Roundtable and Record 18:41, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Discussion on the Manual of Style for China-related articles on the use of tone marks

A discussion about using tone marks in the flow of articles is taking place in the talk page of the Manual of Style for China-related articles. Seeing the result of the discussion may have tremendous consequences all over Wikipedia, members of this project might want to join in the discussion. _dk (talk) 00:20, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Transportation in China

The Transportation in China project, started in 2004, has long been inactive. (There are/were only four members.) Should it be made into a task force here or deleted via Mfd? Does anyone have an opinion on this? Thanks. --Kleinzach 10:24, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

I suggest: Merge it as a shared task force between WPCHINA and WPTRANSPORT, primarily residing in WPCHINA. 65.94.45.160 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:24, 19 April 2011 (UTC).

That would be possible. Do other people agree? --Kleinzach 06:27, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I think that would be a good idea; unfortunately I've already tagged over 200 articles; all of which would have to be undone. I will pause the tagging until consensus is reached. — PCB 22:48, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

By tagging do you mean adding the Transportation in China project banner to article talk pages? --Kleinzach 02:22, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, and unfortunately, removing the WPCHINA tag. (Since I thought WPCHINA was the parent of Transportation in China, and that would be redundant.) — PCB 02:58, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

This shouldn't be a problem. We can just redirect the 'Transportation in China' project banner to the 'China' project banner. --Kleinzach 03:04, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Anyhow, I endorse creating this as a task force of WPCHINA. — PCB 03:11, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I would also endorse creating this as a task force of WPCHINA. I didn't know this project even existed, and now that I do, I would be interested in joining it.  –Nav  ^{talk to me or sign my guestbook} 03:05, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Someone has put a merger tag on Transportation in China project. A merger and a task force are actually different. A merger would simply make the project into a subpage of this one, whereas a task force would have members etc. and be a more complicated entity. Which would people prefer? --Kleinzach 03:27, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Although I can't really say for this one since I am a member of the project, but I think because of its parentage in relation to WP:TRANSPORT, it should be a task force, but please take the opinions of others as opposed to mine. — PCB 03:30, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Considering the limited number of participants in the project, a task force with members might not be feasible. My preference would be for merger, with it becoming a workgroup of both WPCHINA and WPTRANSPORT. In other words, it would have the same status as the Chinese history workgroup does currently, with a flag that is set on the banner, and the WikiProject Transport would give it the same status on theirs if they so chose.--Danaman5 (talk) 13:24, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I've never heard of that solution before. Do you know how to implement it? --Kleinzach 03:05, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

The activity of a project is not determined by its members. Wikipedia:WikiProject Oklahoma State Highways has only one member. — PCB 04:25, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

(de-indent) I was under the impression that the project was largely inactive, due to the discussion above. Of course, if the project can stand on its own two feet, then it absolutely can be independent, but I don't know if that is the case here or not. The solution I proposed above is actually not really different from the shared task force idea mentioned earlier. I was just trying to integrate it with our current banner system, which uses workgroup flags. If we wanted to make it a joint workgroup, WPTRANSPORT could change their banner too, and then I think the articles in the workgroup could be listed at some central location. I'm not totally sure about all of the details of implementation, but I think everything can be done through banner modifications.--Danaman5 (talk) 11:22, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Right, sorry, having looked at the banners, I realized that what I was calling workgroups are actually called task forces by the template. The banner lets you select an assessment category for articles flagged as being part of being a particular task force, so it would just be a matter of coordinating with WPTRANSPORT to put the articles in the same category, and create a page for the shared task force.--Danaman5 (talk) 11:29, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Right. I have converted projects into task forces (sometimes joint ones) several times in the past. If the consensus here is for that solution I can carry it out. --Kleinzach 15:29, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

WP:TRANSPORT is so large, I'm not even sure that they would care. They've got plenty of large WikiProjects under their scope. As long as the task force is a recognized child project of theirs, they don't need the articles in their categories. I'm sure other projects like WP:HWY, WP:TRAINS, and others would, as they have already done, put these articles under their scope. — PCB 22:42, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

If there are no more comments I'll make the change to a task force in a couple of days. --Kleinzach 01:14, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

 Done --Kleinzach 04:46, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

{{Mahjong}}

template:Mahjong has been nominated for deletion. 64.229.100.153 (talk) 05:08, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Jiayuguan

In the article concerning Jiayuguan, it says that the literal meaning of Jiayuguan is Excellent Valley Pass and the Chinese character guan means pass. It is technically incorrect, as the Chinese character guan literally means gate or fort. The mere fact that many forts or gates are constructed at passes are a testiment to the wisdom ancient strategists in recognising key strategic locations within one's territory and the need to control those locations. In the famous Chinese literary work, "The Romance of the Three Kingdoms" tells a story of how Guan Yu kills the defending general at each gate or fort Guan Yu encounters on his journey to re-unite with his blood brother Liu Pei. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.48.91.38 (talk) 06:39, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Then what is your suggestion? Do you mean that the explanation of "guan" in the article Jiayuguan (pass) should be altered? If so, this suggestion doesn't agree with relevant articles. Please notice the translation of "guan" in Juyongguan, and in Guan Yu. Therefore, if translating "guan" as "pass" is problematic, I think it's better to correct all relevant materials.

Besides, though the translation as "pass" might not be perfect, translating the character simply as "fort" or "gate" is doubtable as well. In my personal view, a more equivalent translation is "fortified pass", because "guan" hold both the meaning of "military stronghold" and "pass in a mountainous region". A fort or gate without a pass to secure is not a "guan". First, there is the pass. And then, the pass is fortified to become "guan". So I think though "pass" ignores the military value of "guan", it's acceptable. Do you have other recommendations to translate "guan"?--Certiffon (talk) 17:03, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Chinese Inkstone

Chinese Inkstone has been requested to be renamed, see talk:Chinese Inkstone 64.229.100.153 (talk) 04:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

List of Canadian cities with large Chinese populations

List of Canadian cities with large Chinese populations has been nominated for deletion. 184.144.163.181 (talk) 05:31, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Futian Port Control Point

Futian Port Control Point has been requested to be renamed. 184.144.163.181 (talk) 04:38, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Huanggang Port Control Point

Huanggang Port Control Point has been requested to be renamed. 184.144.163.181 (talk) 04:45, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Kwantung / Guandong

Kwantung , Guandong , Guandong province need cleanup. The two dab pages should probably be merged into one dab page. "Kwantung" itself needs cleanup and expansion. Then there's the need to choose a name, either "Kwantung" (WG) or "Guandong" (Pinyin) and confusion with Guangdong/Kwangtung/Canton. 184.144.163.181 (talk) 04:58, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

HK and Macau border crossing category / template renaming discussion

In connection to some recent renamings, please see the discussion Template talk:Guangdong – Hong Kong border crossings. This also concerns Macau. -- Vmenkov (talk) 15:47, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

See also {{Guangdong - Macau border crossings}} and template talk:Guangdong - Macau border crossings for a second discussion. 184.144.163.181 (talk) 04:02, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Categories "Guangdong – Hong Kong border crossings" & "Guangdong – Macau border crossings"

Category:Guangdong – Hong Kong border crossings and Category:Guangdong – Macau border crossings have been proposed to be changed to Category:China–Macau border crossings and Category:China – Hong Kong border crossings.

184.144.163.181 (talk) 04:14, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Requested move of Taihu Lake

Hello all: please give your input on the proposal at Talk:Taihu Lake. –HXL's Roundtable and Record 14:05, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Gongbei Port of Entry

Gongbei Port of Entry has been requested to be renamed. 184.144.163.181 (talk) 03:51, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Towns Taskforce

I cannot possibly single-handedly create articles for all the 20000+ township-level divisions of the PRC, so I will need some help here. Until the task force is formally created, follow this link for the page. Thanks –HXL's Roundtable and Record 17:05, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Creating articles for townships?! Don't take me wrong - I strongly believe that each zhen and xiang is notable (and maybe most urban jiedao too), and I have created (or "appropriated") articles for a few of them. However, considering that most county-level articles are presently just one-liners, I feel that the emphasis on creating articles for all lower-level units is somewhat misdirected. Would not it be better for editors to put more work into growing county articles from a one-line size to a one-page size at least? Once there is enough material in a county article discussing particular towns/townships, then of course such articles may be created by the interested editors on as-needed basis. -- Vmenkov (talk) 18:52, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I think that a township taskforce is definitely needed. I feel like once we have the articles on towns within a particular county, it will be easier to link to those towns from the county article through templates and the like. Our situation right now, where we often only have one random township in a county, does not facilitate linking. On an unrelated note, someone really has to change the text for Wenquan, Xinghai County.--Danaman5 (talk) 01:43, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

"Someone really has to change the text for Wenquan, Xinghai County" - someone surely ought to! Of course, you may be the first editor to have looked at this article in a year, so we may wait for a long time for someone with time on his hands and an interest in the topic to run across it again. The county government, or failing that, the prefecture government, just might have some non-trivial information about the place on their web site after all. (How did an article like this get created? Simple: someone put the coordinates for this Wenquan into an article for another Wenquan, and to avoid confusion, I split the that article into two.) -- Vmenkov (talk) 02:26, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, many of the prefecture-level city articles are bare too, and considering that many of them have total administrative populations in the millions, this is a shame. –HXL's Roundtable and Record 02:21, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

New Portal: Shanghai

Hey guys! I made a new portal: Portal:Shanghai WhisperToMe (talk) 02:43, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Deletion nominationS

Wangtang, Guilin, Wangtang, Anhui, Wangtang, Guangdong, Wangtang, Hunan, and Wangtang (northwest of Guilin), Guangxi have all been nominated for deletion here. –HXL's Roundtable and Record 05:22, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm getting an insight into Wiki-bureaucracy right here. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 01:29, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Then you have not seen the serious bureaucratic behaviour that some sysops will take on. —HXL's Roundtable and Record 01:38, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Proposal to merge White Terror (mainland China) into Shanghai massacre of 1927

I believe that the new article White Terror (mainland China) should be merged into the article Shanghai massacre of 1927. Please provide input here Ferox Seneca (talk) 23:15, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Chink

The ethnic slur against Chinese, "Chink", has been requested to be renamed, see Talk:Chink. 65.95.13.213 (talk) 05:12, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Yay!

i'm moving to pudong and this page helped me A LOT! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 111.68.59.72 (talk) 10:52, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Request for comment

Discussing rename of prejudicial term "Chink" to more appropriate article title06:38, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Category:Chinamen

Category:Chinamen has been nominated for deletion. 65.94.44.141 (talk) 04:09, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Foxmail

Our article on Foxmail has been nominated for deletion.[5] So far, none of the editors participating in the discussion can speak Chinese, so it's a bit difficult to assess its notability. Also, there may be some other issues with the article as it has multiple tags. Perhaps someone here can help us out? Thanks. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:35, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Portal:Republic of China (ROC) is up for deletion

I have placed Republic of China (ROC) portal for deletion at WP:MFD. Please comment here for any concerns. Thanks, JJ98 (Talk) 20:57, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I left a comment here regarding similar articles that can also be flagged for deletion. We should get a consensus. Benjwong (talk) 06:02, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Drivers safety in China

I found a source:

• Pierson, David. "China tries to scare motorists into safer driving." Los Angeles Times. April 20, 2011.
  • This was also posted in the Houston Chronicle, but I haven't found a URL

WhisperToMe (talk) 19:55, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Requested move of Pearl River (China)

Please give your input here. Thanks much—HXL's Roundtable and Record 01:08, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Shanghai and Shanghai Metro wikiprojects

1. There's a proposal to create a Shanghai wikiproject, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Shanghai
2. There's a proposal to create a Shanghai Metro wikiproject, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Shanghai Metro.

65.94.47.63 (talk) 08:44, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

RFD renomination for Datang town (Chengdu Datang)

Please give your input here. Thanks much —HXL's Roundtable and Record 17:25, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Renomination of Wangtang (northwest of Guilin), Guangxi for deletion

Go here if you wish to participate. —HXL's Roundtable and Record 17:25, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

FAR

I have nominated Felice Beato for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. GamerPro64 20:02, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Sources for civil war of Wa

The Civil war of Wa is mentioned in a number of old Chinese histories. To expand that article, I am looking for quotes from the following books that mention this war: Book of Liang, Book of Sui and the History of Northern Dynasties. These quotes are probably very short (a sentence or two each). Preferrably I am looking for English translations, though any other language I can make sense of (German, Spanish, Dutch, French, ....) is fine as well. The corresponding Japanese article has the quotes in Japanese, but I am looking for a reliable source and, as mentioned, ideally in English. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. bamse (talk) 22:55, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Luckily for you, Chinese Wikisource has the entire Book of Sui online, at <http://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/%E9%9A%8B%E6%9B%B8>. Use Google Chrome if you have difficulty reading 1300-year-old Chinese.

Chinese Wikisource also has the History of the Northern Dynasties online, at <http://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/%E5%8C%97%E5%8F%B2>.

No luck on the Book of Liang.Ferox Seneca (talk) 20:07, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Unfortunately my ability to read Chinese (let alone 1300 year old Chinese) is non-existent and automatic translation did not bring up anything meaningful either. I have no idea how much old Chinese differs from current Chinese, but maybe somebody knowledgable in Chinese could help. Fortunately I only need two sentences: from [6] "桓、靈之間，其國大亂，遞相攻伐，歷年無主。有女子名卑彌呼，能以鬼道惑衆，於是國人共立爲王。" and from [7] "靈帝光和中，其國亂，遞相攻伐，歷年無主". bamse (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

My best translations:

1) "In the reign of Huandi and Lingdi (c.141-186 AD) there was a country that was in great disorder, whose inhabitants had gradually gone to war against each other; so that, over the years, it came to be without a ruler. There was a woman there who was named "Bei Mihu"; who, by the use of spirits (/craftiness), was able confuse many people, so that her countrymen together made her their monarch.".

2) "In the reign of Lingdi there was a country that was in great disorder, whose inhabitants had gradually gone to war against each other; so that, over the years, it came to be without a ruler."Ferox Seneca (talk) 21:36, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Sounds great, thanks a lot! Two questions and one request: Could Bei Mihu be the same as Himiko? Doesn't Huandi's reign start in 146/7 and doesn't Lingdi's reign end in 189? Could you have a quick glance at the sentences just before and after, i.e. in [8] and [9] and see whether they relate to this war or not (likely not)? bamse (talk) 22:00, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

The reign times aren't in the text (I added them), so if there is a mistake in the time that those two monarchs reigned, it is my mistake.

The first link mostly discusses Korean (pre-) history, especially relating to the relationship between various Korean kingdoms and China. Close to the end it discusses Korea's relationship with a (prehistoric) Japanese kingdom, around the end of the Han Dynasty. The second document discusses a similar subject: the history and culture of various non-Han people around northern China. Google Translator does a terrible job of translating both of these documents, probably because the language is old and formal, so somebody will probably have to do it manually. The first one is cool: it talks about human sacrifice, people being born from eggs, and things like that. "Bei Mihu" is definitely "Himiko", but in Mandarin. There is a section that discusses that country's politics, which I'll try to translate for you in the next day or two. A later section of the second document discusses the politics of Himiko's Japan. Both of these are definitely relevant to your research.Ferox Seneca (talk) 00:56, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks again. If by "country's politics" you mean that of the time of Himiko, I am not sure it is that relevant for the war, since it happened after the war. Also, all of those Chinese Dynastic Histories are somewhat similar and I have the story according to the Wei Zhi in English on pages six to eight in this book and the story according to the Book of Later Han on pages 8 to 9 of the same book. So unless, there is something said on how Himiko ended the war, there is no need to translate it. I was mainly interested in the translation of the sentences discussing the war since the timings differ slightly from history to history. bamse (talk) 07:41, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

The passage of your book is a good translation of the original Chinese. It includes the first sentence you asked to translate (but, of course, I like my translation better). Good luck on your research.Ferox Seneca (talk) 19:41, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Instead of "there was a country" it should say "that country", since the context establishes which country this refers to. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 04:48, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Overseas Chinese restaurant

The recently created Overseas Chinese restaurant could probably benefit from attention by editors familiar with overseas Chinese culture and cuisine. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Direct-controlled municipality of Taiwan -> Special municipality of Taiwan

I've noticed recently that Direct-controlled municipality of Taiwan was moved to Special municipality of Taiwan without discussion as far as I can tell. I'm not sure if that's a proper rename or not, so I thought I'd drop a line and let you know. --JaGa^talk 18:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

It is less of a faithful translation of the original term in Chinese, but it is still somehow the ROC official translation. —HXL's Roundtable and Record 21:32, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

It seems to be a holdover from the distant days (pre-1930) when direct-controlled municipalities in the Republic of China were named 特别市, see zh:特别市. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:24, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Question about Diaoyu and Diaoyutai naming

Dear experts of Chinese culture and language,

There is a matter about whether or not "Diaoyu", "Tiaoyu", "Diaoyutai", and "Tiaoyutai" are distinctively different names. Since this may involve some intimate knowledge of the Chinese language, I thought this will be a right place to direct the question to. Since a thread about this had already began in Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names), I decided to mirror paste parts of it in this page (the excluded section, which is rather irrelevant, can be found in Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)#Further_debates_between_involved_parties):— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobthefish2 (talk • contribs)

I have removed the pasted part from here as there's a link pointing to the content in other site already. STSC (talk) 03:04, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Former autonomous territory

What former(1949-2011) autonomous regions, prefectures and counties were in China(PRC)? When I get information about them?--Kaiyr (talk) 08:51, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Could you be clearer as to what you mean by China and autonomous? (ie. something from the Xia dynasty as well as the PRC, only the PRC, etc? What of the issue of Two Chinas? (ROC is autonomous from the PRC...)) 65.94.47.63 (talk) 05:50, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree: you need to be clearer about what you are asking for. Are you asking for information about modern "Autonomous Regions", like Tibet and Xinjiang? If that is what you are looking for, you can find a map here, and then just google the regions that you are looking for. If you are requesting information about independent political units that have formed during periods when the central government has weakened, you need to be more specific about what time periods you are interested in. China splits into independent political units fairly regularly: I'd say the central government collapses approximately once every 200 years, with a high standard deviation. The political units that form to fill the vacuum aren't the same every time.Ferox Seneca (talk) 06:15, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Ethnic population

Where I get information about ethnic composition of the population of province, county and prefecture of China? It is desirable In English. Where I get ethnic map of South China?--Kaiyr (talk) 15:22, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

A decent ethno-linguistic map can be found here. Is there a particular ethnic group or province that you need information on?Ferox Seneca (talk) 06:53, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! I want especially autonomous regions, county and prefecture and South China.--Kaiyr (talk) 08:26, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

The only Autonomous Region in southern China is Guangxi. There was a KMT guerilla movement active in Yunnan into the 1960s (possibly making parts of it semi-autonomous?), but I'm not sure if that is what you are looking for. Wikipedia's articles on Chinese provinces generally include ethnic composition in the side bar.Ferox Seneca (talk) 15:39, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

For example former Hainan Li-miao autonomous prefecture(1952-1988) in Hainan province.--Kaiyr (talk) 18:07, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia does have pages on the Autonomous prefectures of the People's Republic of China, Autonomous counties of China, and Autonomous areas of China. I think there is some overlap between these pages, so I hope that you can find what you are looking for by using them.Ferox Seneca (talk) 18:50, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

China's largest city?

The perennial dispute whether Chongqing may be treated as a city or not has erupted again.

Summary The dispute is whether Shanghai or Chongqing is the largest city (pop.) of the PRC. The main argument in favor of Chongqing as the "largest city" is that it is the largest administratively. The argument in favour of Shanghai is that in the PRC, a municipality is not the same as a city. Please leave your comments atTalk:Shanghai BsBsBs (talk) 19:07, 26 June 2011 (UTC)