Talk:Carriageway

Standard width

standard width of carriageway???

who know? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.50.179.90 (talk • contribs) 05:35, 8 September 2008

Standard modern lane width is 1.6 metres (5.2 ft). Shoulders are generally 1.2 to 1.6 metres each. The width of the carriageway depends on how many lanes or whether there are shoulders. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 17:37, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Use of term "carriageway" in North America

US English doesn't seem to have a good equivalent for "carriageway"; the term isn't well-known outside of its use by roadgeeks. "Roadway" seems to be used mostly by transportation agencies & organizations. (The public uses the term "roadway", just not in the specific sense of "carriageway".) Google searches yielded the following terms: "lanes" (used by state transportation departments and the general public), "side" & "direction" (used by the public), and the singular "lane" (which seems wrong, but which is often used by media outlets.)

Thus, you will hear "the northbound lanes", "the westbound side of the Interstate", "traffic going in the opposite direction on the highway", and, as in my included reference, "both lanes of the six-lane expressway", or "the accident blocked the southbound lane of the freeway, so traffic was stopped."

I'm not certain about the usage in Canadian English, but from what I can find, Canadians don't commonly use "carriageway" either, and I found examples at least of "lanes".

This might seem like original research, but these usages are commonly known by most Americans. I couldn't find any straightforward dictionary-type references for them, but I think the folks at alt.usage.english provided a fairly definitive discussion of the topic. --Chaswmsday (talk) 20:05, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

• We need to be careful not to confuse the thing with the name of the thing because Wikipedia is about things as distinct from a dictionary. The 'thing' in question is that part of the highway consisting of one or more lanes used by vehicles but not including the sidewalks and and grass areas. It is an important concept for anyone involved in transport professionally or in the law and it isn't really helpful to muddle it with a traffic lane even if there is no well used word in common usage for it in the USA. I will have another go at that article to incorporate your contribution about US terms. PeterEastern (talk) 07:57, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
• I have does some work on the article, but what I think would be most helpful would be a new diagram which shows the different arrangements of road elements with their British English and North American English terms within it. I will have a got at that some time soon. PeterEastern (talk) 08:52, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

PeterEastern, I agree with how you handled the US terminology. I also like your addition of related terms. I'm not certain, though, about the validity of the other edits, or of the grammar. I'm going to change those back to the last edit before mine, yours(!) of 28 July 2011, and make a few other changes. Then we can step back and think it all through. I'm not sure how you would want to change the existing diagrams. I can read them fine, just substituting in my mind the US terms for the British terms. Later! --Chaswmsday (talk) 12:25, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Fine. Grammar was never my strong point! I am going to add a new image for people to comment on. PeterEastern (talk) 13:08, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

New image added. Still needs work and should probably be in SVG but would appreciate some feedback in the mean time. PeterEastern (talk) 13:31, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

The image looks good!! I'm not completely certain if the dividers in the local-express diagram would be called "medians" in North America; that term might be reserved for the central divider. Off the top of my head, I'm picturing concrete "Jersey barrier", but that's just one specific type of divider. I'll have to cogitate a bit on that... --Chaswmsday (talk) 17:17, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Median is generally the term in North America. Jersey Barriers and Ontario Tall Walls are a type of median using slightly angled concrete walls. However, grass, rocks, railways and many other things can divide the opposing directions of travel. The Tree Lawns in the image isn't a term I'm familiar with in Canada at least. We use the term "boulevard" to refer to the strip of grass or pavement between the curbs (edge of the road) and the sidewalks. However, a boulevard is also a type of street, usually in the downtown core of major cities where there is a median with parkland, statues, fountains, flags, etc. Otherwise it looks great! - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 17:27, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the encouragement. I have never ever heard the term 'tree lawn' until I found it in in the Wikipedia article. I noted one source that said it was a 'mid-western US' term for what we in the UK call a verge. The article tree lawn also lists the following names "verge, sidewalk buffer, nature strip, tree belt, utility strip, planting strip, parking strip, devil's strip, city grass". I will add a discussion to the talk page of that article. PeterEastern (talk) 17:58, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

"Tree lawn" is the term we use here in "Murica", not that it's a term one has occasion to use on a regular basis. Back to the other subtopic: Between opposing lanes, I'm sure the separation is called a "median". I was just wondering if the same term is used when lanes in the same direction are separated. "Barrier" also sounds plausible, but that would preclude separation by a lawn-covered island, for example. And BTW, what would you call the grass area between an exit ramp and the mainline lanes? Gore only seems to apply to the paved area, not beyond. I so enjoy overthinking easy topics... :) --Chaswmsday (talk) 18:05, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I've personally never seen a term applied to that area. It's just the greenspace of the interchange. Barrier is used when there is a barrier, otherwise I'm not certain what it would be called.... But a highway set up in such a fashion is typically a collector-express or local-express. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 20:33, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Peter, I think the third one would be known as a 3-lane dual-carriageway or 3-lane motorway in the UK. The word 'highway' isn't in general use for such roads. -- de Facto (talk). 18:01, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I have reworked the diagram to simplify it and take into account the above comments. In particular I have been vaguer about the North American terms for some elements. PeterEastern (talk) 19:20, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

The layout of your latest diagram is really nice... But... 1) I propose that you include the "single carriageway with 4 lanes" example. Since lay Americans, at least, are unfamiliar with the word "carriageway", the current diagram might give them the mis-impression that any 4 lane "highway" has at least two carriageways. Explicitly showing otherwise should reasonably forestall any confusion. :) 2) Instead of stating that North American terms are in "brackets", you should say they are in "parentheses". To appeal to British and North American readers, you alternately could say, "they're in brackets (parentheses)", but I find that way too recursive! :) 3) I'm not sure if your lane counts are merely meant to be examples or if they're British road network-specific. *Somewhere* in Wikipedia I think I read that "all" British motorways are 3 through-lanes per carriageway. In that example, your picture matches your text. But in the local/express example, the picture shows 3 lanes per express, 2 lanes per local - but the text says "2 to 4 lanes per carriageway". If you were trying to set upper limits on number of lanes per British standards, please remember that in the US (and Canada), some of the "controlled-access highways" in our biggest "metropolitan areas" can have *many* lanes - at least 6, per carriageway. And yes, the congestion on these roads does seem to be directly proportional to the number of lanes... :) --Chaswmsday (talk) 22:05, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Done, and I have tried to accommodate all of the above very sensible suggestions. For the last one I have indicated that it is 'one or more lanes' per carriageway (roadway). Re motorways and dual carriageways in the UK, we have both motorways with two lanes (ie the M45 motorway) and also dual carriageways with 3 lanes (part of the A14 road to the east of Cambridge for example. For people interested they might like to check out the 'highway lanes' mapping data from OpenStreetMap which can be seen on this slippy map. Almost 100% coverage of major roads in the USA and good coverage for southern England and other countries. All maps are cc-by-sa and therefore Wikipedia compatible. PeterEastern (talk) 11:21, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

These are good diagrams. May I suggest showing the verge between the travel lanes and the sidewalk/pavement? That's the preferred design for several reasons (snow storage, splash/spray, pedestrian comfort, etc.), and also, if the verge is outside of the sidewalk, how do you differentiate if from the lawn of the adjacent property? --Triskele Jim (talk) 16:31, 25 October 2011 (UTC)