Talk:Substituted amphetamine

Improper consumption of amphetamine derivatives may result in addiction and aggressiveness, as well as in rapid deterioration of basic body functions and death.

That is somewhat ambiguous. Improper consumption of paracetamol, aspirin, ibuprofen and various other common off the shelf pharmaceuticals also cause a rapid deterioration in health and death when consumed inappropriately.

Consumption of alcohol is a prime cause of aggressiveness, rapid deterioration and death when consumed inappropriately. As well as some form of addiction; probably psychological. That is also available off the shelf.

The latter is allowed due to social norms. The former are allowed due their accepted medical worth versus harm potential. So it is not simply that amphetamines are controlled due to these risks, as many other uncontrolled examples exist.

With regards to addiction, that needs to be more clear. It is well accepted that people can become psychologically addicted, but a physical addiction is not as certain; as stated further down the page.

The sentence should simply read, "Amphetamines, and their derivatives, are controlled in many countries.".

Amphetamine analogues.

• This discussion forum thread has some very interesting information regarding selective monoamine affinity to various phenethylamine type stimulants of different kinds. Hopefully some of it could be of use to articles such as this one. Nagelfar (talk) 21:05, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was no consensus for move. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 14:29, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

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Substituted amphetamine → Substituted amphetamines — In this context amphetamines is the name of a category of compounds, only used as plural. Single has another meaning here. --Wickey-nl (talk) 16:20, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

• Each of the various substituted amphetamines is a substituted amphetamine. The singular seems valid to me. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:41, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
  • This argument would only be valid if the article was about one of the substituted amphetamines. This article is about the class and is a list of substituted amphetamines.--Wickey-nl (talk) 11:18, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
  • Likewise the page Frogman is not called Frogmen, although it is about all frogmen and not about a particular one. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 20:33, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose — This is standard English grammar. Most links to this article are likely to identify a member of the class, as in "X is a substituted amphetamine" rather than "X is a member of the class substituted amphetamines" and note that even in the plural use, the singular page name suffices. --Una Smith (talk) 22:58, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
• The lede could be rewritten to discuss this topic in the singular. --Una Smith (talk) 23:04, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose Plural is unnecessary. This is consensus per WP:Manual of Style. Abductive (reasoning) 06:18, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Page history repair needed

• The article was moved from Substituted amphetamine to Substituted amphetamines (singular to plural) back in 2007, then returned here in 2009 by means of a cut&paste operation. The article and talk page histories both need repair. --Una Smith (talk) 23:03, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
• I  Done the histmerge. I text-merged their talk pages. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:41, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion for reorganization and eliminating needless redundancy

This has come out of my proposal to eliminate "substituted phenethylamines" which has led me to think that merging and reorganization is a better idea.

As it stands, there is no verifiable definition of "substituted phenethylamine" or "substituted amphetamine" or "substituted methylenedioxyphenethylamine." They are potentially infinite classes of compounds. It seems very obvious to me that these lists are generated due to interest in Shulgin's book, but Shulgin's book is by no means the only book that lists phenethylamines.

We should keep "substituted phenethylamines" and merge "substituted amphetamines" and "substituted methylenedioxyphenehtylamines" into it, since the "susbtituted phenethylamines" includes both of those groups.

After merging those groups, we should break the categories apart into VERIFIABLE categories. "Substituted phenethylamines" can include thousands upon thousands of substances and has an absurd amount of overlap with the other two categories. After merging the two other groups, we should break the categories apart, or at least make sub-lists of "substituted phenethylamines with (some verifiable property)" such as "substituted PEAs with adrenergic activity" and "susbstituted PEAs with dopaminergic activity." We should also give the reader enough information to be able to discern which substituted PEAs are also susbtituted amphetamines and/or substituted methylenedioxyPEAs. I don't see why we should keep those lists that overlap so much.

I know that people like Shuglin's work, but limiting "substituted PEAs" to the compounds listed in Shulgin's book is arbitrary. The significance of the PEA moiety goes FAR beyond Shulgin's book and extends to more complex molecules like isoquinolines, benzomorphans, benzylisoquinolines, protoberberines, aporphines, protopines and narcotine. Hell, LSD can be seen as a substituted amphetamine. Heroin can also be seen as a substituted amphetamine.

I have a really hard time understanding why people want to maintain these lists in their arbitrary form, especially when they overlaps so much with each other (and even the 2Cs and DOxes, because even most of those are substituted phenethylamines or substituted amphetamines, yet for some reason they have different lists, though some of the 2Cs and DOxes are list in substituted PEAs - and I think it's silly to give Shulgin's nomenclature such a special status, because his naming convention really doesn't change the fact that the 2Cs and DOxes are substituted phenethylamines and many are substituted amphetamines).

There's got to be a better way to organize these lists that isn't arbitrary. AlkaloidMan (talk) 13:00, 28 October 2010 (UTC)AlkaloidMan