User talk:Doug Weller

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Coming here to ask why I reverted your edit? Read this page first...

Please leave me new messages at the bottom of the page; click here to start a new section at the bottom. I usually notice messages soon. I attempt to keep conversations in one location, as I find it easier to follow them that way when they are archived. If you open a new conversation here, I will respond to you here. Please watchlist this page or check back for my reply. If I have already left a message at your talk page, unless I've requested follow-up here or it is a standard template message, I am watching it. If you leave your reply here, I may respond at your talk page if it seems better for context. If you aren't sure if I'm watching your page, or I'm slow to reply, feel free to approach me here.

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Welcome to my talk page! I am an administrator here on Wikipedia. That means I am here to help. It does not mean that I have any special status or something, it just means that I get to push a few extra buttons to help maintain this encyclopedia. If you need help with something, feel free to ask. Click here to start a new topic. If I have not made any edits in a while, (check) you may get a faster response by posting your request in a more centralized place. If you need to get a repeat vandal blocked, you can report them to Administrator Intervention against Vandalism. If you need a page to be protected from editing, try Requests for page protection. If you would like to request rollback rights or account creator rights, Wikipedia:Requests for permissions is, well, that way... :) If your problem does not fit into any of the above criteria, and your issue is urgent, you can: Make a post on the Administrators' noticeboard, the Incidents noticeboard, or one of the other noticeboards. Ask another administrator for help. Here is a complete List of Wikipedia Administrators. If you want to ask for help, you can ask at the help desk for questions about Wikipedia, and at the reference desk for more general questions. You may also simply ask a question on your talk page and add {{helpme}} before your question. This will attract the attention of experienced users who will most likely be able to help you.

Did I delete your page, block you, or do something else that I should not have done?

First, please remember that I am not trying to attack you, demean you, or hurt you in any way. I am only trying to protect the integrity of this project. If I did something wrong, let me know, but remember that I am human, and I do make mistakes. Please keep your comments civil. If you vandalize this page or swear at me, you will not only decrease the likelihood of a response, your edits could get you blocked. (see WP:NPA) When posting, do not assume I know which article you are talking about. If you leave a message saying "Why did you revert me?", I will not know what you mean. If you want a response consisting of something other than "What are you talking about", please include links and, if possible, diffs in your message. At the very least, mention the name of the article or user you are concerned with. Also, if you sign your post (by typing four tildes - ~~~~ - at the end of your message), I will respond faster, and I will tend to be in a better mood, because unsigned comments are one of my pet peeves. If you are blocked from editing, you cannot post here, but your talk page is most likely open for you to edit. To request a review of your block, add {{unblock|reason}} to your talk page. (replace reason with why you think you should not be blocked.) I watch the talk pages of everyone I block, so I will almost definitely see you make your request. If I am making edits (check Special:Contributions/Doug Weller) and I do not answer your request soon, or you cannot edit your talk page for some reason, you can try sending me an email. Please note, however, that I rarely check my email more than a few times a day, so it may be a couple of hours before I respond. Administrators: If you see me do something that you think is wrong, I will not consider it wheel-warring if you undo my actions. I would, however, appreciate it if you let me know what I did wrong, so that I can avoid doing it in the future.

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Amazing!

I see you around everywhere :) keep it up LuLxFakie (talk)

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Sockpuppet?

Hello Dougweller, I am beginning to suspect that both Users: User:74.233.219.224 and User:184.32.55.194 are Sockpuppet accounts. Both have dedicated themselves to reverting and making the same edits to a couple of articles. You may want to look into it or advice someone who knows about these things to check into the matter. Tony the Marine (talk) 04:32, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Possibly, both IPs geolocate to the same place (you can check this sort of thing yourself from an IP's talk page). Not enough edits to worry about yet, but it could be a problem. Having said that, ethnicity isn't really relevant unless it's clearly a significant part of a person's life. Dougweller (talk) 19:09, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Bible cosmos images

Doug, is there any way we can get some decent bible cosmos images for wiki-commons? Or maybe they're already there? I have no idea how to access or use wiki-commons, unfortunately. PiCo (talk) 01:20, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Try this source [1] and there's [2]. Dougweller (talk) 17:04, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

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Undeaddanny4

Saying the Bible is fiction is not vandalism. You can reprimand the user for not wording it properly, but not for vandalism. In fact, I wonder why the word "fiction" does not occurr once in the Bible article. Too many religious editors? ♆ CUSH ♆ 09:10, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

None of this editor's edits have been constructive, including that one. He's going to be blocked but I thought he deserved a final warning, which is why I added "None of your edits so far appear to have been constructive, this is your last chance." It's pretty obvious that the Bible isn't fiction although it isn't a historical text either. It's a religious text and there is a difference. If we can source it, we can say that some people view the Bible as fiction, but we can't state as a fact that the Bible is fiction (which would clearly be wrong as besides the mythological elements there are historical elements). Dougweller (talk) 09:20, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

The historical elements? The stories about king Arthur also contain historical elements, but it's still fiction. The book Shogun re-tells history, but it's still fiction. Same goes for the Bible. The events and the lives of biblical figures do not reflect real-world events and lives as they in fact took place. The Bible is fiction. All of it. But you know very well how much the sections of Wikipedia dealing with religions and ancient history are under control of religious editors, which is why many articles still are rather proselytization pamphlets than encyclopedic papers. And almost no admins do anything about it although it is very obvious that the used sources are not reliable. Heck, even Mr Wales takes the side of the religionists. ♆ CUSH ♆ 09:52, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, I'm hardly a religionist and although I agree that it is almost impossible to keep our religious articles NPOV, or our ethnic ones and many of our historical ones, I try and so do many others. But it isn't accurate to call the Bible fiction. It's much more complex than that, and to simply label it that would also be a gross violation of NPOV. 10:39, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Let me clarify: everything in the Bible that is currently assigned to before circa 850 BCE is fiction, i.e. prior to the Divided Monarchy. And even most of the details assigned to the time after the United Monarchy have no basis in archaeology or historical research. And that's jsut for the Jewish part. In the New Testament almost nothing comes from any identifiable, let alone reliable author. The Bible is not a reliable source for dozens of reasons, and to pretend that it has some value around here because so many believe in it, is simply encyclopedic dishonesty.

I know you are not a religionist, but sometimes I wonder what you stand for. And maybe you should enforce certain principles around here, e.g. that history is not determined by "biblical scholars" (i.e. theologians) but by archaeologists and historians. There is no objectivity in religious sources ever, and how could there be? So why allow material from religious sources to dominate so many articles, especially with emphasis on the Jewish aspects? Why do I constantly have to change "Hebrew Bible" references to "Bible" references? You know, I do fight for accuracy in describing what the Bible says and what the Bible is. But what has gone on in Wikipedia in the 10 years that I have been here, really is a disgrace for an organisation that has the aim to provide a serious encyclopedia. ♆ CUSH ♆ 13:38, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it isn't a reliable source for history. If it's being used as such, complain on the article's talk page and let me know. Dougweller (talk) 14:54, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Gulf of cambay civilisation deletion

the current article (Marine archaeology in the Gulf of Cambay) from which i redirected to my now deleted article does not give the entire picture. Moreover both the articles are resourced from the same sites. Yet one is deleted the other is not !! Moreover my article was resourced not only from graham hancocks website and also from many other websites. It is not only grahm hancock but Prog G a milne who is an expert in "Glacial isostasy, sea-level change, earth rotation, the static and time-varying geopotentia" has verified it. Prof. S.N Rao India's leading archaeologist has dedicated 14 years of his life for this. There are lot of google hits for this article and also you tube videos. Could you please revert the deletion so that I can add appropriate resources to it atleast, otherwise we are denying the write knowledge to readers whi are interested in this topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gururaj Nayak (talk • contribs) 17:14, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

First, much of it was copyvio and you haven't admitted this. Secondly, it's a POV fork, see WP:POVFORK, ie "another version of the article (or another article on the same subject)". We already have an article on the subject, you should be editing that one if you can find sources that meet our criteria at WP:RS and edit according to WP:NPOV and WP:FRINGE. That isn't the only article of yours with copyright violations. And I doubt that you can find any current academic sources that agree with your perspective, which is both fringe and political.

Another issue is WP:NOR. Exactly where does Milne say there is an ancient civilization there? If he doesn't, then you can't use him as a source. You really need to become familiar with our policies and guidelines if you don't want your edits to be reverted. And you need to read Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing and Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia before you do any more editing as editors who persistenly add copyvio to articles end up blocked. Dougweller (talk) 17:35, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Apologise for repeating myself but the current article which is incomplete and more importantly with the wrong title refers the same resources and does not get deleted, my article which I have tried to add more information with the right title referring to many resources and also containing a lot more well resourced information gets deleted. Moreover before i could add more resources the article itself was deleted without warning nor i given any time. With in 2 hours of creation it is gone. Atleast i should have been given a couple of days to rectify it. I hope you understand that creating an article and adding resources takes time. this article has been of high academic interest in recent years and the entire world civilisation timeline is not accurate with discoveries like it and this is slowly dawning on many archeologist. just because western world does not endorse it or reports it incorrectly does not make it wrong. Lot of articles do not depict the right picture and it pains me when i see them in wiki and when i want to modify them mods delete it under one pretext or the other. i just wanted to highlight this. coming back to my article there is lot of info, and photographs of this material which cannot be denied. i have asked for permission from graham hancock and i hope when i get it i can add this important article to wiki, better is if he adds it himself so that wiki is benefited. In the name of moderation we should not deny knowledge that is well resourced to the knowledge hungry ppl like me...

Cheers Guru — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gururaj Nayak (talk • contribs) 18:07, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

It appears you didn't read the links I gave you. We already have an article that covers the controversy, we do not have two articles on the same subject, nor do we have articles that present only one viewpoint on a controversy. If people are deleting pictures you are adding to articles than you are using other accounts or editing without an account to add them as I see no such contributions by you. If there's an argument over whether an image is correct, use the article's talk page. Dougweller (talk) 18:21, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Ohh dear !!! when i say "picture" I donot mean the silly .jpeg/.gif image as such but I mean the article as a whole. Lots of article(s) in wiki are not right or rather not accurate. "If people are deleting pictures you are adding to articles than you are using other accounts or editing without an account to add them as I see no such contributions by you" this is so out of context !!! Nobody is deleting my images, it took me a while to understand what you were talking. Anyways I used the word "picture" as a metaphor to indicate that omission of certain articles distorts the entire "picture". Again picture in the sentence is a metaphor indicating the content as a whole and does not refer a .gif/.jpeg file. I have read the wiki rules and as i understand most of these rules are subjective otherwise wiki would not be what it is today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gururaj Nayak (talk • contribs) 20:54, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

As a picture you uploaded was in fact deleted, it's not surprising I thought you meant real images. It is still the case that we should not have two articles on the same subject, or change a balanced article (or at least one with more than one viewpoint) to one with only one viewpoint. See WP:NPOV. Dougweller (talk) 21:47, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry mate, looks like you are missing a few points...
1. I had uploaded no image file whatsoever for the deleted article, whatever pics were there in my deleted article where re-used pics from the other wiki article. I suppose one can re-use pics already present in wiki domain. I don't see any rules against reusing of the images.
2. It looks like you deleted the article without even bothering to see it thoroughly which is a shame, otherwise we would not be discussing the above point.
3. The deleted article included all the contents of the current article plus I added much more info, which deserves to be mentioned given all the irrefutable data that we have. So my article was a kinda super set, hence the redirection as explained before. So this also addresses the POV fork rule. since if there is a better article the smaller article is always redirected to that article, which i have seen happening many times in wiki.
4. I referred some more resources on net and found that I did not violate the copyright rules of wiki, since copyright rule says that any info already present in the public domain with no obvious copyright to it can be added to wiki. This article which was referring to "graham hancock's website" was one of the sites where it was present. The article in question was not written by him but he was merely hosting it like so many other websites which are doing it. I found the very same referred material present in many other websites like "archaeologyonline" etc..which in turn means that it is already present in public domain and my wiki article has a right to refer to that material.
5. The article also followed the WP:NPOV since I had carefully included all the controversy related to the article to make it a balanced POV. All the controversies included in the Marine archaeology in the Gulf of Cambay article where also added to my article, so that nothing is left out.
6. We can take any article in wiki and like a harsh critic start breaking it down by citing the various rules, that is easy to do and anybody can do it. I personally feel we should follow the wiki rules in spirit otherwise wiki would get most of its articles deleted.
7. Agreed that majority of the scientific community does not adhere to my deleted article, but that is because this article has not been published with the right data in the right forum by the right people. If this is the sole reason for not accepting my article then no issues whatsoever.
- --Gururaj Nayak (talk) 13:11, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

You misunderstand our copyright policy. Unless it is unambiguously copyright free, we consider copying text from somewhere else copyvio. Being elsewhere on the web does not make it public domain. You think it's the other way around, but it isn't. Edit the Marine archaeology article if you can do that within our policies and guidelines, but remember that sources must pass our WP:RS criteria and directly discuss the subject. And 'irrefutable' is obviously not the case as there's been refutation. Dougweller (talk) 13:53, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Newport Tower ( Newport Rhode Island)

The Elizabethan Colonization attempt of 1583

While writing a biography on Rhode Island's first Governor, Benedict Arnold (and owner of the Tower), photographer and researcher Jim Egan came across a chapter in Rhode Island history that has few historians have written about since it was first discovered by William Goodwin in 1934. Goodwin, William B., “Dee River of 1583,” R. I. Historical Society, Collections, April 1934, pp. 38–50.

In 1577, the brilliant polymath John Dee wrote a series of eight books convincing Queen Elizabeth she had a legal right to all of North America (except for Florida which had been settled by the Spanish.) One month later, the Queen granted letters patent to the entire continent to one of her bravest generals, Sir Humphrey Gilbert. Navigational, cartographical, and legal advisor for the mission, John Dee, selected what is now Narragansett Bay to be the site of this very first colony of the British Empire (a term coined by Dee). And he named the site after himself: the “Dee River and port.”

On the summer solstice, June 11, 1583, Sir Humphrey Gilbert set sail from Plymouth, England with 5 ships and 280 men. Four of the ships made it to Saint John's Harbor in Newfoundland, but on the way down the coast, they hit a fierce tempest. The largest supply ship, The Delight, got stuck on a sandbar and was crushed to pieces.

Gilbert decided to head back to England for more men and supplies. But off the coast to the Azores, he hit another tempest. His ship was swallowed by a huge wave and he drowned. (Incidentally, a year later, the Queen granted letters patent to Gilbert’s younger half-brother: Sir Walter Raleigh.)

Researcher David Beers Quinn found that about a year earlier, in July of 1582, Gilbert had sent a preliminary expedition to the New World. Quinn, David Beers, England and the Discovery of America 1481–1620, pp. 374–377 (New York, Knopf, 1974) .

These 2 ships and about 80 men were under the leadership of Anthony Brigham, who returned to England 9 months later. Egan claims these were the stone-masons and carpenters who built the Tower which was to be the city-center of the first Elizabethan colony in the New World.

Egan has concluded the Tower was designed by John Dee as a Vitruvian circular temple that functioned as a horologium, a building the keeps track of time. Dee was an expert in geometry, astronomy, and optics. Also in 1582, at the Queen's request, he wrote a 60-page treatise explaining why England should adopt the calendar reform similar to the Gregorian Calendar Reform of 1582.

After translating and decoding Dee’s most cherished work, the Monas Hieroglyphica, Egan found clues indicating what the Tower originally looked like, and the function of three interior rooms: as camera-obscura solar-disc calendar-rooms. This conclusion was first made by William Penhallow, retired professor of astronomy at the University of Rhode Island, who found astronomical alignments in the windows of the Tower in the early 1990’s. Penhallow, William S., Astronomical Alignments in the Newport Tower, (republished in The Newport Tower: Arnold to Zeno, 2006, New England Antiquities Research Association monograph., pp. 32-43) .

Egan has also found that the early colonial leaders of Rhode Island in the 1630’s knew all about this colonization effort undertaken by their countrymen a mere 50 years earlier. And that it was Benedict Arnold who insisted Aquidneck Island be named after John Dee's secret code word for the 1583 colonization attempt: Rhode

Egan runs the Newport Tower Museum, just 50 steps northeast of the Tower, and has put all of his 11 books and 25 videos on the Newport Tower Museum website. WILL ARTICLE BE OK IF I SIMPLY DELETE THE LAST PARAGRAPH? Thanks for your careful attention. I appreciate your help, Jim Egan```` ````Jim Egan ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by JimEgan252 (talk • contribs) 16:02, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

You really need to discuss this on the talk page (after reading WP:COI. And sources for articles need to both meet criteria at WP:RS and to discuss the subject directly, see WP:NOR which catches out a lot of new editors, including me years ago. Dougweller (talk) 16:17, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

Thank you so much for your message!!! Happy holidays!!! Everstanley (talk) 20:07, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

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Season's tidings!

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Hi

Hi, first of all merry christmas! Could you take a look and perhaps take action against an already blocked user that is harassing and threatning me on his/hers talk page [3]. I think these comments from the user plus the fact that the user tried to evade the block yesterday justifies an extension of the block. Seems to me like the account will only be used to vandalize Wikipedia. Sincerely.--BabbaQ (talk) 12:55, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

I can't agree. I think the block was justified but this dispute should never have taken place, and if either of you had researched it properly it wouldn't have happened. His reasons for reversion were wrong, but in fact she didn't work for France 24. His edits weren't vandalism, and he appears to be a new editor, so WP:AGF is appropriate right now. I think I'll ask him about his edit to Zakir Naik though. Dougweller (talk) 13:48, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

It still doesnt justify threats and harassments from the user like the ones his posted a few hours ago. Instead he should have tried to explained his edits and his thinking properly and yes then the dispute would never had happen. Anyway if the user behaves from now on and just moves on like I will, then I dont see a problem from my point of view atleast. Cheers.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:00, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, he shouldn't have said those things, but if he's new he may be used to a very different type of environment. I'm hoping he will move on and learn. If he doesn't.... Thanks for understanding. Dougweller (talk) 14:08, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes it is OK. I see your point of view. And I hope it ends here. Cheers.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:09, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

But with continued insulting comments like this edit summary did you read my unblock request? did I attack others? No. It seems to me to be a lot of "knee-jerk" reactions by the so-called "admin" here. I find it a bit difficult to move on but I will be the better person and look beyond it and ignore it. By the way I am not sure if it is directed towards me or you. Cheers.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:15, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Your removals

Could you please explain the reason you removed information here and here? In both cases you claim the chapter and the movie were produced by Lee Carroll, but in both cases the official sources say otherwise. Both the book and the movie are written and directed by David Thomas, and they include compilation of interviews with Lee Carroll and other channelers by this journalist. Thanks. -- Nazar (talk) 16:54, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Actually I said that the chapter in the book is by Kryon - I've now realised he was being interviewed and found [4]. I'm not convinced he's notable enough or independent but have restored it for the time being. Dougweller (talk) 17:08, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your cooperation :) -- Nazar (talk) 19:34, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Sad ignorance

You claim that i've edited two pages on my personal beliefs? Yet you ignore the fact that most of the stuff i changed (which was less than 2 lines) is true. Dont you know thousands of scientists have shifted away from that piece of propaganda? Hundreds of frauds exposed throughout the history, yet you still blindly defend it. It's gonna be even more funny if you even delete this post. That would just show simple fear of truth.