Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Constantia Jones

From Cleanup: Constantia Jones seems to be a joke, or just vandalism - Andrevan

• It's really suspicious, but who can prove that such a thing didn't happen? It is very unlikely, given what I know of the trade and punishments. Minor thieves were not hung, and prostitutes certainly weren't. Women were rarely hung. It's very suspect. Geogre
• (moved from Cleanup by SimonP)
• Keep. I am the author of this page. The source of this historical anecdote, and an account of its significance, is Peter Linebaugh's The London Hanged: Crime and Civil Society in the Eighteenth Century (2nd ed.). This was discussed and all but settled on my talk page; as I wrote there, I wrote this article partly because I found the subject matter interesting and partly because I feel Wikipedia leans too much towards regurgitating trivia that's already available elsewhere on the Internet. Why would anyone assume this to be a joke/vandalism? Just because Google doesn't come up with anything for the search? Wikisux 06:59, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • It wasn't a question of a search. It was a question of not being consistent with Tyburn Tree nor any of the other social histories I've read. When did it happen? How many offenses had she committed? This is very important. "Code of the time and place" is impossible, because the time and place isn't given! My specialty is early 18th c., and I'm aware of Peter Linebaugh. Please make the entry complete so that it isn't just a salacious story but instead locates this woman in time. I stand by my statement that women were very rarely hung, prostitutes not hung, and minor thieves not hung. There have to be a lot more details in the story, and the way it's written it adds to the general impression that it was "consistent" with the 18th c. criminal practice. In fact, it's an exception. Also, if there is an existing discussion, could it be moved or copied to the Discussion page for the article? Geogre 12:49, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • On an entirely different front, why is the execution of Constantia Jones (in some year) notable? Why is this criminal case more notable than the execution of hundreds before or after? Without a date of execution, what is it, exactly, that we learn? If Linebaugh was talking about English law, what did he say we were learning about the law at that time? I really think this just makes stereotypes, but I also think it's not notable as written. Geogre 17:09, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  • For that matter, why no entry on the most famous highwayman of the century, whose confession and hanging inspired Defoe, as well as a number of broadsheet writers, and then inspired John Gay to write the most famous English opera of the century, and then inspired Henry Fielding to write a novel? Why is Constantia Jones notable when Jonathan Wild isn't? Geogre 17:12, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC) (Yes, I will write a Jonathan Wild article.)
• Keep. -Sean Curtin 07:35, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. it seems entirely consistent with the criminal code of the time and place. ping 07:50, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. --Palapala 15:12, 2004 Jul 13 (UTC)
• Keep - Tεxτurε 15:30, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Delete. A.) It's not particularly an interesting fact and I don't see why it should have a separate article in an encyclopedia. It would be fine in an article on "Capital Punishment," say, or "Hanging", or "18th Century British Justice & the Legal Code", or some other article like that. But not as a stand-alone. And B.) There are no facts here beyond the bald assertion of the hanging. What was the date? Where was the place? What is the source of this info? I might write a brief article saying that the Salem Witch mania spread so far that in the Mass. territory that later became Maine a woman named Sarah Perkins was drowned in a pond for allegedly being a witch. It might even sound plausible. But so what?Hayford Peirce 22:59, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Keep, but add sources in a References section. What does nobody follow the Cite your sources guidelines? --Alexandre 00:15, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

• • I'd still really like to know the notability of this figure. I'm sorry if I seem to be really unloading, but history by anecdote bugs me, and New Historicism has introduced a lot of that. If Constantia Jones was a celebrated case at the time, readers need to know it. In fact, hanging of women grew to be a scandal during the 18th century, especially in London, and some hangings became outrages. If Linebaugh pulled this example, there's a reason that we need to warrant an encyclopedia article. Geogre 00:22, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Keep. --Gary D 06:30, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Delete, unless more info is provided to indicate time, place, and importance of this event. Denni☯ 01:20, 2004 Jul 18 (UTC)