Talk:Hanged, drawn and quartered

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Vandalism

At the end of the section entitled Treason in England someone has written the words "Taylor is Sexy". I clicked on edit in an attempt to remove that phrase and was unable to do so. Someone with a greater knowledge of Wikipedia than me needs to fix it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.141.155.6 (talk) 19:31, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorted, thanks. Some kind of hidden text was used. Parrot of Doom 20:39, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Requested move to "Hanging, drawing and quartering"

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:53, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Hanged, drawn and quartered → Hanging, drawing and quartering – This topic has been brought up sporadically in the past, but I would like to make a formal move request to the noun form. WP:NOUN indicates a strong preference for the noun form, and it is much neater if the titling is consistent with articles such as Hanging. The current title is a major departure from Wikipedia's regular title conventions, and I consider it a blemish on an otherwise excellent (and featured) article. The only argument I have seen for the present past tense verb title (at Talk:Hanged, drawn and quartered/Archive 6#Title) is that "hanged, drawn, and quartered" is more frequent on Google, but I find that argument unconvincing. The purpose of the article title is to give the name of the execution method, and that is the noun form: "Hanging, drawing and quartering". "Hanged, drawn and quartered" is not an alternate name for the execution method but a description of what happened to a person. If we titled articles according to Google hits, Impalement would have been moved to "Impaled". Sjakkalle (Check!) 21:29, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

No. The article is not just about the execution. The sentence is to be hanged, drawn and quartered. Parrot of Doom 22:46, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

• Support per WP:NOUN. Deor (talk) 16:39, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

• Support. Brangifer (talk) 16:52, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, and because as PoD points out this article is mainly about the sentence, which does not use the -ing form. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:55, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose it's always referred to as the current title. Hot Stop ^UTC 21:52, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose per CommonName policy. The number of books which list "Hanging, drawing and quartering" at Google books is just over 31,000 whereas the number with this article's title is 111,000. This is a good indicator that the article title is already correct.
  ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 22:15, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Comment. I find the COMMONNAME argument to be based on the misconception that the two are different names for the method, when in fact they are just different grammatical tenses. The past tense is used more often than the present tense, but that can be said about a large swathe of possible articles, without that causing us to move the article title to the past tense. None of the people opposing the move have attended to 1) the inconsistency with articles like Hanging, Electrocution, Impalement, and Decapitation (instead of "Hanged", "Electrocuted", "Impaled", and "Decapitated"), and 2) The WP:NOUN guideline policy. Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:12, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
    • Each of those articles is in very poor condition. This article is primarily about the sentence, not the execution, and the sentence is to be "hanged, drawn and quartered". It is also the form that most reliable sources on the subject use. Parrot of Doom 11:42, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose per CommonName --Snowded ^TALK 11:44, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
• Uncertain My linguistic sixth sense (i.e. pure hunch, I could be wrong) is that if you are going to put this in the "ing" tense, shouldn't it be a "hang, draw and quartering"? Kinda like "bait and switching" rather than "baiting and switching"? Hanging, drawing and quartering are three distinct acts, each of which has its own page, and not all of which are always involved in the punishment for high treason, and neglects to mention other acts that usually are (beheading, impalement, etc.), suggesting that "hang, draw and quarter" is more of a manner of speech, a common phrase, than an accurate description of the execution. Walrasiad (talk) 04:40, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
• Opposed per WP:COMMONNAME. Theoldsparkle (talk) 19:12, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Theological issues ?

Purely as an intuition, I wonder if the practice of separating the parts of the dead body was intended as a reference to the idea of bodily resurrection as the eventual destiny of all ( good) Christians, at the Day of Judgement? Was it meant to add a further level of punishment for abominable crimes by denying this possibility ? This would apply also to execution by burning, eg of "witches" ... FWIW : I believe this issue may have been a factor in opposition to early medical dissection, where people may have feared losing the possibility of final resurrection if they fell into the hands of grave robbers, even in Victorian times...I have to admit, I have never seen any evidence of this notion in any of these cases Feroshki (talk) 01:25, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Too UK oriented

It happened in France too per example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert-Fran%C3%A7ois_Damiens — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.182.217.237 (talk) 17:14, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid you're wrong. This was a specific offence under English law. Parrot of Doom 18:49, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Not consistent with Article about Jeremiah Brandreth

This article says The decapitated head of Jeremiah Brandreth, one of the last men in England sentenced to be hanged, drawn and quartered. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Brandreth however says he way merely beheaded.