Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jangale Asfalt

Jangale Asfalt

Jangale Asfalt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Lacks substantial, non-passing, multiple RS coverage in gnews and gbooks in English or Persian. Its only ref is to iTunes (do we even allow such commercial iTunes refs?). Epeefleche (talk) 19:00, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:05, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:06, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

• Strong Keep - This album is a landmark in Persian rap music, and a song from it is featured in a film that won two awards at the Cannes Film Festval. Also, important Iranian hip-hop producer, film score musician, and experimental musician, Mahdyar Aghajani mentioned the persecution Hichkas suffered as a result of releasing this film, in Aghajani's interview which was published on Iranian.com, a primarily English language website that receives respectable numbers of visitors in English speaking countries on a daily basis.jigsawnovich (talk) 11:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• Jig -- you just added to the article 3 1 unreliable sources -- a) an Itunes ref, b) a Youtube ref, and c) and a ref to a self-described "community site" that lacks indicia of being an RS. We can't base notability on non-RSs such as iTunes and Youtube. As to your remaining ref -- it does not support that this album is notable -- at best it relates to possible notability of 1 song of the 10 on the album, though actually it relates not to the song but to a music video, and then again it relates not to the music video but to a movie that the music video appears in. The song was not nominated for an award, and did not win an award; nor did the music video.--Epeefleche (talk) 17:09, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
• Epe -- "Epeefleche" is not a music video, it's on the soundtrack and Hichkas performs it in the Cannes award-winning feature film which received theatrical release in the United States of America--the country in which English Wikipedia was founded.jigsawnovich (talk) 17:40, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• I see that you've changed the article now, which had previously stated (in a sentence that you had previously edited, and provided a ref for) that it was a music video. That's fine. My point still stands. No award was given to this album. Nor was this album nominated for any award. Nor are the pertinent statements in the article supported by RSs. Notability is not inherited. Plus -- the lone song that was in this film was 1 of 15 songs in the film ... it wasn't even a major part of the soundtrack.--Epeefleche (talk) 19:51, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• Epe -- you just made a false accusation. The Itunes ref and Youtube ref were already there. I added the Cannes website reference and the Iranian.com reference. jigsawnovich (talk) 17:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• Apologies -- I'll assume you have no problem in me deleting them, then. Apologies.--Epeefleche (talk) 18:09, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• Epe -- any claim that the Cannes Film Festival's own website is an "unreliable source" is laughable. jigsawnovich (talk) 17:27, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• I didn't claim that the Cannes Film Festival website is not an RS. See my comments above. As to that ref, however, as I point out above, it has its own problems.--Epeefleche (talk) 18:09, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• Epe -- I notice that you seem to be targeting Iranian rappers in particular lately. Although Wikipedia rigor is admirable, targeting a particular nationality or ethnic group is not. Myself, I'm more interested in adding references than in deleting articles. And I'm in a position now to write about rap, rock, and pop musicians in many Middle Eastern countries, including Israel. Are there any you recommend? jigsawnovich (talk) 18:15, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• I've been targeting musicians/albums in general, and focusing -- when I find a problem -- on related ones. You'll see a host of albums/singers at AfD who as it turns out are Finnish for this reason as well (see, eg, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Riittäähän noita linnassa). This album seems to be related to a number of similarly non-notable articles. You seem to be connected to a number of them, arguing "strong keep" on the basis of non-published articles, and the like ... which is not an argument that is supported by wp policy. If you are looking to flesh out musician bios, the stub bios would be the ones in greatest need of assistance.--Epeefleche (talk) 19:22, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
• I just sent an email to my editor to find out the exact date that the magazine with my feature article about Bahram Nouraei will hit the news stands. As for "Seeking Refuge: Mahdyar Flees the Crackdown on Iran's Hip Hop," it was published, has been read 2,753 times and has been shared on Facebook 16 times.Jigsawnovich (talk) 19:37, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks. Blogs shared on Facebook -- even those shared as many as 16 times -- are not RSs.--Epeefleche (talk) 20:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• "Seeking Refuge: Mahdyar Flees the Crackdown on Iran's Hip Hop," was published as a feature article on the main page of the site. It is not a blog post. That's your second false accusation for today. You have already made two prima facia false statements here today. Epeefleche, you are proving that you are unreliable. jigsawnovich (talk) 20:35, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• The site -- self-described as a "community site", and only listing one person on its staff as best I can tell -- certainly seems to be a non-RS blog to me.--Epeefleche (talk) 20:43, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• The publisher and editor of Iranian.com, who I submitted "Seeking Refuge: Mahdyar Flees the Crackdown on Iran's Hip Hop" to, and who published my article as a feature on the main page is Jahanshah Javid. His CV includes: Stringer, BBC Persian Service, Washington, DC, July 1998-March 2001, Iran Business Monitor, New York, 1994-96, Aftab cable television, New York, 1994-96. (Freelance), BBC Persian Service, 1991-96. (Freelance), The Associated Press, Tehran, summer 1991. (Freelance), Daily Lobo, University of New Mexico, Albuquerque, 1990-92, Tehran Times, ~1988-89 (Freelance), Soroush magazine, photographer, ~1982-85. (Freelance), Kayhan International, Tehran, ~1982-85. (Freelance), Crescent International, London. ~1982-88. (Freelance), Iranian news agency, IRNA, Tehran (1981-85, 1988-89), London, (1985-88), New York/United Nations, (1992-94). http://www.iranian.com/Writers/jjavid.html jigsawnovich (talk) 20:49, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

• Comment Noted that Jahanshah Javid is a prominent Iranian journalist. But I think that Iranian.com could not be considered as a RS, despite having an article on English Wikipedia.Farhikht (talk) 09:18, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

  I disagree. Articles appearing on the main page clearly have editorial oversight. 89.100.194.85 (talk) 12:51, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

  Hi. Welcome to wikipedia. As to your comment -- every indication from the website itself is that this is a one-man-show, where the same fellow is the blog's entire staff.--Epeefleche (talk) 21:06, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

  Plainly the prominent journalist is providing the editorial oversight for this "blog" as you are rather suddenly calling it. (89.100.194.85 above) 86.44.55.100 (talk) 07:56, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

  It is a blog; see The politics of cyberconflict. And the site lists as its staff Jahanshah Javid, Publisher, Editor, and Writer.[1][2] It is a self-described "community site". Our policy WP:SELFPUBLISH states in part: "self-published media, such as ... personal websites, ... personal or group blogs ... are largely not acceptable as sources.... Take care when using such sources: if the information in question is really worth reporting, someone else will probably have done so.--Epeefleche (talk) 21:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

• Comment Hichkas was on the big screen at the Film Society of Lincoln Center performing "Ekhtelaf" from the Jangale Asfalt album, in April of 2010, as No One Knows About Persian Cats was "the centerpiece screening of a Ghobadi retrospective," according to Variety. Mark Jenkins, of National Public Radio, wrote that, "The plot's whirlwind tour of clandestine music showcases, among others...a rapper called Hichkas (Persian for "nobody") who celebrates mean-streets Tehran as if it were Compton." [3] Proshot Kalami, author of Iran’s Reel Spectre: The Cinematic Epic of a Nation (Chicago University Press/Seagull Calcutta, London, New York), wrote in Cinemascope Independent Film Journal that "Ghobadi features “The Difference” in (aka Ekhtelaf) by Hichkas," in No One Knows About Persian Cats, and "that song seals his point of view as an artist and says it all, both for him as well as, perhaps, Ghobadi’s film."[4] jigsawnovich (talk) 08:13, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
• Strong Keep And I mean it, Here is my last edit, see if this link can help as a reliable source, For the record's artist, date and producer information. We can go solve the other parts one by one. Persian Clique (talk) 20:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)— username (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Hello. Welcome to wikipedia. Thanks for contributing with these, your first two edits. As to Discogs, it is not a reliable source, and therefore does not at all indicate the subject's notability.--Epeefleche (talk) 21:21, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

• Comment The fact is that, It's hard to make music in Iran. And press does not fully support such acts, I mean government does not want the vocalists "in case rappers". I have found this by my own experience, if you have the music without the vocals you can work much better. This is the main reason which this album is better known by people outside it's emerging country [Iran]. Of course it is so strange for people from other countries that simply don't know much about rules and regulations in Iran. After the ban in Iran even the media and press did not aired/printed anything related to the article to keep it unknown, and in my opinion writing about these kinds od topic on wiki is way too much complicated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Persian Clique (talk • contribs) 22:21, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
• Comment All music in Iran is supposed to be submitted to the Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance. Have a look at their website. http://farhang.gov.ir/home-en.html Do they look like gung-ho music lovers? ;) "Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said today that music is 'not compatible' with the values of the Islamic republic, and should not be practised or taught in the country," Saeed Kamali Dehghan reported in The Guardian. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/02/iran-supreme-leader-music-islam And the Iranian government has a reputation for detaining and torturing journalists. You're sure to find lots of information about that here. http://www.iranhumanrights.org/ It's amazing any modern music gets made in Iran under those conditions. And a journalist such as myself who covers the Iranian music scene must be extremely careful about what each article says and when it is released, because one misstep could literally result in someone being arrested and tortured back in Iran. jigsawnovich (talk) 23:20, 29 January 2012 (UTC)