Talk:Salchipapa

Origin: Peru

The sources clearly indicate that the plate has its origin from Lima, Peru. Given that the plate was invented in the late 20th century, and unless any nation in particular has made an important modification to the dish, the plate is not Latin American. Surely, given its simplicity, overtime the plate will become part of Latin American popular cuisine, but even by then the plate's origins will still be Peruvian. Regards.--MarshalN20 | ^Talk 04:04, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

I will translate here the content of the discussion help on the Spanish version of the article to facilitate a third opinion on this matter as apparently involve the same two persons: Book of Charles Frazier: "Whether in these nack bars or in one of the many steet stalls throughout Lima, try salchipapas, a Peruvian fast-food mixture of French fries, sliced sausages, and a variety of sauces ranging from mild to firey".

Book of Dan Periman: "salchipapa - french fries with bits of sliced hot dogs mixed in, street food from Lima (Peru)".
Article in the New York: "French fries adorned with sliced hot dogs that turns out to be a straight-from-Lima street food called salchipapa". [1]  
The salchipapas were invented in Peru, which doesn’t surprise me since the culinary productivity of the country is very high, Greetings.--MarshalN20 (discusión) 06:24 5 feb 2012 (UTC)

I don’t read the phrase “originated in Lima” in none of the references, the article mentions what those references mention as well that is a fast food consumed in Peru but equally as the other references that you eliminated show, here and on the English version it is a popular dish in other Latin American nations --190.129.63.177 (discusión) 03:46 6 feb 2012 (UTC)

The references clearly say that the dish is from Peri; Lima to be specific. Unless you have a reliable reference which states otherwise, I’ll restore the article to its old version. If you want to add information, do it but without altering what the sources say. The phrase “from Lima (Peru)” is very clear.--MarshalN20 (discusión) 03:58 6 feb 2012 (UTC)

No they don’t is only your interpretation, to stablish the origin the reference should include the word “origin” preferably with an explanation and history which speaks about that origin, it shouldn’t be a tangential comment about the topic and in fact the eliminated references already indicated in the same way that it is a popular dish in other countries. In a slight and quick way I found from the same series “Rough guide” a similar mention referring to Ecuador [2] additionally to the other references you deleted. --190.129.63.177 (discusión) 04:20 6 feb 2012 (UTC)

The above discusion was translated from the Spanish wikipedia here — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.129.63.177 (talk) 04:44, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

I should also point out that the link to the "New York" [3] says "Your search - salchipapas peru - did not match any documents. " doesn't lead me to any information regarding the origin. 190.129.63.177 (talk) 04:52, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

In the case of the New York link, what I did was go to Google Books and type in "salchipapas chile", and I believe the text from that source can be found on the first page. As a matter of fact, I will do it for you here: New York: Volume 34, Issues 26-33. We can also use the WP:RD/L board to clarify the meaning of "from Lima (Peru)", if you desire. That should resolve any doubts you have about the sources.--MarshalN20 | ^Talk 05:00, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Yeah I experienced the same effect, Google also gives me results that once I open doesn't have what was indexed like this search [4] if you see the first result "Procesos transnacionales y Estado subnacional en una ciudad latinoamericana" of the CEPAL says "La actividad más rentable y frecuente para ellas era la cocción y comercialización de comidas “típicas” de las regiones de Bolivia de las que eran oriundas, como falso conejo, sopa, pollo a la broaster, salchipapas, pejerrey, sábalo, chicharrones, empanadas salteñas, que.." but once you open the link the page is down.

also here the result for "Cities of Women" says: "But this gendered geography is not as universal as she claims. Throughout the Andean nations of Ecuador, Peru and Bolivia, (and elsewhere in Latin America as ... would go to eat salchipapas together” at a favorite stall that stayed open late into the night (204). " but once I open the link doesn't give me much information.

However, I have already asked for a third opinion, hopefully it'll be a quick and easy disagreement to solve, till then best regards and good night. 190.129.63.177 (talk) 05:22, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

The "Cities of Women" source does not validate your position at all, but the CEPAL source is indeed worthy of further investigation. You can access the full text if you click on the "Version en HTML". Google Scholar has that dumb problem, but this should link directly to it [5]. The problem with the CEPAL source is that it only talks about typical foods in Bolivia, and among the examples it lists soups (literally: "sopa"), chicharrones (pork rinds), and empanadas. Obviously, these dishes are typical of Bolivia, but they do not originate in Bolivia. The source at no point claims that the dishes are from Bolivia. English is one crazy language. Regards.--MarshalN20 | ^Talk 05:40, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Before heading to work I woke up early to check the events here, and following the kind recommendations of SeoMac and Itinerant1 I quickly found two mentions of the Salchipapa in the Peruvian newspaper "El Comercio" [6] and the Argentinean one Pagina12 [7], both can be used to expand further the article.

El Comercio "La salchipapa tampoco es patrimonio exclusivo de nuestras esquinas de barrio. La combinación del embutido con el tubérculo frito es común en México. Incluso, más conocidos son los “salchipulpos”, una variante con diseño en la que las salchichas son cortadas solo hasta la mitad y sus filas, extendidas como si fueran tentáculos. Rico y divertido."

Pagina12 "EL REINO DE LA SALCHIPAPA Bolivia es reconocida entre otras cosas por la abundancia de alimentos y hortalizas. Hace unos meses, en el marco del encuentro nacional del tubérculo, productores de papa de Villazón expusieron su variedad en Tiwanaku, “que es la cultura de la papa”, explicó el arqueólogo Hugo Avalos, un estudioso del tubérculo y de las raíces de la raza tiwanakota. Así la región se adhiere a los festejos que se están realizando en torno de la papa a nivel mundial. En la celebración se expuso desde la legendaria “ajawiri”, pasando por la papa “imilla”, la “waycha”, la “revolución” y la “khati”, hasta la nueva variedad “desirée”. De este tubérculo, como no podía ser de otra manera, nace una de las especialidades que fascinan a chicos y grandes: la salchipapa. Preparada con salchichas fritas, papas fritas y todos los aderezos existentes, la pasión por la salchipapa no tiene un equivalente aquí. Otro rasgo distintivo de la gastronomía local es el picante de pollo, preparado con ají amarillo, colorado, ajo tostado, locoto, cebolla blanca, tomate, caldo, pollo y especias (mucha pimienta negra), combinación que se vuelve todo un reto para los desconocidos."

It's just aditional information I'll see when I get back from work how it can be integrated with the article and perhaps creating an account would be easier. Cheers. 190.129.63.177 (talk) 09:32, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

That's great information, but it still doesn't state that salchipapas originated in Bolivia. It does, however, indicate to me that the plate is an important part of other cuisines as well. Therefore, solely calling it "Peruvian cuisine" is not correct.

That being said, the sources still indicate that the origin of the plate is in Peru. No other source that you have brought up so far makes the claim that the three other sources indeed claim.--MarshalN20 | ^Talk 14:48, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

This source confirms the matter:

• Qué pasa: Issues 1952-1960: "Con más razones que nunca, hay recetas de origen irlandés, francés, español, sueco, italiano y, por supuesto, peruano [...] Dentro de las recetas peruanas encontramos desde las simples salchipapas y causas [...]"
• Translation: "With more reasons than ever, certain recipes have their origin in Ireland, France, Spain, Sweden, Italy and, of course, Peru [...] Within Peruvian recipes we find from the simple salchipapas and causas [...]"

For some reason the source is not linking directly to the material (which is on page 77), but that's just Google. Does this satisfy your position for the need of the word "origin"? Regards.--MarshalN20 | ^Talk 15:39, 6 February 2012 (UTC)