Talk:Brown sugar

No retail brown sugar

No retail brown sugar is produced from sugar beet molasses, because the flavor of beet molasses is not palatable to humans, although cattle like it.

In Japan, brown sugar made entirely from sugar beets is sold in retail stores. [1] It resembles Sucanat, but with the distinctive aroma of beets. And according to sugar beet, in Germany, unrefined sugar beet syrup "is used as a spread for sandwiches, as well as for sweetening sauces, cakes and desserts." Thus it appears this sentence is factually inaccurate (no retail brown sugar) and POV (beet molasses is not palatable to humans). Though I suppose it depends on your definition of molasses; these products are apparently made from the unrefined beet juice and not from the byproduct of refining white sugar. Still, it seems somewhat misleading at best. Dforest 03:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

To quote a sugar-syrup carton on my desk: "Sugar-syrup forms during the production of sugar from sugar beets. The juice of the sugar beet is condensed until sugar crystals form. These sugar crystals are separated in a centrifuge from the syrup." - a CSM sugar-syrup carton

I currently don't have any brown sugar in stock, but since most sugar products here are sugar beet based, I find it perfectly conceivable that it is possible that sugar beets are used for the production of brown sugar. When I go shopping, I'll see if I can find sugar beet based brown sugar, or not. Shinobu 15:36, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Apparently, the brown sugar over here is made by mixing beet sugar with syrup and caramel. Shinobu 18:45, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted the paragraph in question, as it appears to have no basis in reality. Shinobu 21:23, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I think I put the majority of that paragraph together - but in light of your comments I have reincorporated some part of it. And I cite my 16 years with British Sugar as suitable background. GraemeLeggett 09:57, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about Britain, but here almost all sugar products are made from beet sugar. That's also probably the reason that brown sugar tastes different from white sugar. Shinobu 11:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Approx 50% of sugar produced in the UK is from refining imported cane products (Lome agreement etc) and about 50% is from beet. GraemeLeggett 12:51, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Refined?

First paragraph, first sentence: Brown sugar is an unrefined or partially refined soft sugar consisting of

Second paragraph, first sentence: Many brown sugar producers produce brown sugar by adding molasses to completely [emphasis mine] refined white sugar crystals

All evidence I've found on the web states that, at least in the west, brown sugar is completely refined white sugar, with molasses added. (Wholly separate from so-called "raw" sugar like turbinado). Is there anyone around with a mild amount of sugar-production authority who can fix this poor article? If no one objects, I'll strike the conflicting parts in a month. JMD 19:02, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

See also the talk section above. You seem to be a sensible person, so go right ahead. I'll keep this page on my watchlist. Bye, Shinobu 21:22, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

This article appears to have been vandalized on Sept 1 by 220.227.192.95, and no one has noticed or cared. It just looks like random sections were deleted and nothing significant has been added since. I'm just going to go ahead and revert it to the previous edit by GraemeLeggett... as soon as I figure out how. Sorry, I'm new at this.--driver8

Just go to the page history, click the revision you want to revert to and edit and save it. Shinobu 10:25, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Manufacture

I changed the wording sightly, both to reflect a more worldwide view, and to tone down the stated effects of using beet molasses. The taste of beet brown sugar is different, but not particularly strong. As noted before, the beet molasses used are sold as a spread for bread and pancakes and the like, as "sugar syrup". Although the production process is different from the one on sugar beet. Also note that brown sugar is often used precisely because it has a slightly different flavour. Shinobu 10:24, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not convinced it comes across as clear enough. GraemeLeggett 11:55, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to edit by bad proza into something clear and readable. ;-) Shinobu 17:09, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

The term, brown sugar, also refers to the snow in streets or walkways during winter.

If you live in an area that gets a lot of snow (like Buffalo) you know all about "brown sugar", the snow on the streets and walkways. It is dirty, wet snow that perfectly resembles brown sugar the sweetener. Maybe this reference could be added to the brown sugar page? 16:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)lennml89@buffalostate.edu

Several sites for brown sugar

There are several sites for brown sugar:

• Brown sugar
• Natural brown sugar
• Rapadura
• Muscovado
• Sucanat
• Jaggery
• Panela
• Palm sugar

This is a little bit confusing. Wouldn't it be better to make one site about these subjects?Fritsz (talk) 09:28, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Crystal size

"brown sugar packs more densely than white sugar due to the smaller crystal size"

White sugar comes in many different crystal sizes... so since brown sugar is made from refined white sugar plus added molasses, is this necessarily true? Is there a standard size for brown sugar crystals? DemiReticent (talk) 20:27, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

I would guess it's comparing 'standard' granulated white sugar with standard soft brown sugar. But you're right, it is rather ambiguous. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 10:35, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Golden?

Alright, what is "golden brown sugar"? This is mentioned in the picture. The types of brown sugar mentioned in the article are the ones I am familiar with, that is, light and dark. I have have never heard of "golden brown sugar" is this a regional term for light brown sugar? Either the picture caption should use the same terminology as the article, or, if golden brown sugar is a real term, the article ought explain it. --Ericjs (talk) 03:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree. I've changed it to "light". Thomas Kluyver (talk) 10:53, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Production

I started to add a citation for light vs. dark brown sugar in recipes (http://www.imperialsugar.com/sugar-101/sugar-facts), but then realized the Imperial Sugar paragraph matches the Wikipedia article word-for-word. It seems possible that Wikipedia is their (uncited) source, but is there a practical way of knowing which came first?

Also, the statement doesn't really seem related to Production. Does it warrant a new section (e.g., Usage)? SimonFlummox (talk) 00:27, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I can't say for certain without following up on the links, but I can assure you that a huge variety of WP material appears in no end of me-too sites without the slightest acknowledgement all over the web. If you really want to be sure, try to ascertain the date of publication on the external site, then compare it with the dates in the article history in WP. Personally, in the light of past experience, I wouldn't bother, but kudos to you anyway for taking the trouble and noticing the matter. I shall do a bit of paraphrasing to obviate any question of plagiarism; it is easier than proving the provenance of the text on the commercial site.

Concerning the relevance of the material to production, you have a point, so I added a sub-heading to allocate the text to it a suitable topic. JonRichfield (talk) 07:28, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Math Error - Culinary Considerations, volumetric ratio for substitution

Two sentences currently read, "For domestic purposes one can create the exact equivalent of brown sugar by mixing white sugar with molasses. Suitable proportions would be about one tablespoon of molasses to each cup of sugar (one-sixteenth or 6.25% of the total volume)." I'm sorry, but one tablespoon of molasses to each cup of white sugar seems to result in seventeen parts, not sixteen! The math can easily be corrected so the parenthetical phrase reads, "(one-seventeenth or about 5.9% of the total volume)", or "(one-sixteenth or 6.25% of the white-sugar volume)". However, is there a citation for this somewhere that indicates mathematically correct percentages specifically based on volume? I've found a few book references with those exact numbers, but it is unclear to me if they are copies of wikipedia, or if they are third party sources, and they do not seem to claim them as specifically based on volume and instead are ambiguous. So, it seems there are some errors in uncited volumetric ratio numbers and/or text. Any thoughts regarding corrections? Gzuufy (talk) 19:47, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

As molasses is a liquid, and sugar is crystalline granules (with many air gaps between the granules), adding one tablespoon molasses to a cup of sugar should not measurably change the volume occupied by the sugar, so 1 tablespoon molasses would indeed be 1/16 of the total volume of the sugar and molasses together. Keyesc (talk) 02:34, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Okay! Thank you. Gzuufy (talk) 06:58, 7 November 2011 (UTC) Presumably, there is some volume of molasses that, as it is increased relative to a fixed quantity of white sugar volume, would completely fill all the air gaps between the granules, and from that point on, it seems further relative increases in molasses content would begin to create some changes to total volume. Thus, stating a volume percentage when combining a liquid and an air-gap containing solid, would seem ambiguous and/or needlessly complicated. According to volume percentage, "Volume percent is usually used when the solution is made by mixing two fluids." That sentence seems somewhat verified. With respect to solids and liquids, weight- or mass-based percentage-systems are said to be "ordinarily used". Gzuufy (talk) 16:24, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Merging

I think that Natural brown sugar should be merged into this article, because of the reason that they are extremely similar topics. Frozen4322 : Chat 03:03, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree. The main article should be Brown sugar and all the different varieties should be subsections of the main article. In fact the Brown sugar article already contains a section for Natural brown sugar that is almost the same size as the entire Natural brown sugar article. Dr. Morbius (talk) 03:13, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

I also agree. Gzuufy (talk) 00:49, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Go for it, say I. JonRichfield (talk) 13:59, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Agreed,it's just doubling up on articles otherwise.