Talk:Duke University

Jesus Christ, enough with rankings!

I think pseudo-scientific rankings are WAY too prominent in this article. Can we please move them out of the first paragraph? They have no meaning: for example, Duke was ranked 52th in the world last year in the Times rankings, and somehow they have jumped 41 spots to 11th in the intervening twelve months. That change is ridiculous, and reflects the deeply flawed nature of these surveys.

Let me know if you all agree.

JTM 04:27, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I have no interest in debating the validity of the rankings; that's an argument that will never be settled. I would say that it's not up to you either. The rankings, wrong or right, are fact. They do exist. Do they belong in such a prominent position in this article? I would agree with you and say no, due to their disputed accuracy, they probably do not. I think they should be moved, and we don't need to list every school that Duke is behind, that seems unnecessary and draws attention to the rankings. But I want to stress that many people find such rankings important, so they probably should appear somewhere. We can't just censor what we don't agree with. Look at other university articles and see how they deal with rankings, perhaps. 卫weizhe哲^{Talk to me!} 14:53, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

A few months ago when this was a hot topic, I visited a whole bunch of schools and could not find any mention of rankings within the opening paragraph. i dont remember if i checked the rest of the articles but i don't recall ranking mentioned anywhere. this is why i was in favor of abolishing ranking mentions altogether. By putting Rankings in its own section, i think we're just drawing more attention to it. but then, people do care about it, unfortunately. --Bubbachuck 07:32, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Ranking are mentioned in Harvard's 1st section, In athletics for Princeton's, in MIT's 1st section, in Penn's 1st section, etc. Instead of having this constant debate about whether or not to put rankings in, we should just use an unbiased section that puts all the rankings. This is an article about Duke and rankings are something that people want to know about and find important. If we get ranked 3 or 34, it should be put in the article. It doesn't matter if we agree with the ranking or not.

I suggest we create a new section entitled "Rankings". Put every ranking of Duke there. Don't list schools we're below or above. Just write it and be over with it. Then, we can remove rankings from the rest of the article.Tinlash 20:20, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Yeah I guess that's good. No commentary or anything, just a list of rankings, and let people interpret them as they please. Probably at the end? I regret that having their own section will probably draw undue attention to them, but I guess it's the best thing for now... 卫weizhe哲^{Talk to me!} 00:02, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Here's what I did. I moved the rankings to a subsection of Academics called Accolades. I've put such a section in the two other college articles I've put signifcant work into, Vanderbilt and Alabama. This is a place to put ranking of all and any kind and not have it pervade the article. What do you guys think? Ttownfeen 00:24, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

PS. I moved Student Life into its own section.

I changed "Accolades" to "Rankings" because 1) That's what will be there 2) Accolades could also signify awards, which if we start putting them, would become like the list of Duke University people page in length. and 3) People will know exactly what we are talking about when we write rankings. Hopefully, other schools will begin to follow our lead. Twownfeen, you might want to thange the Vandy and Bama pages too. Tinlash 06:12, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Timeline

Hi, I've added a timeline about more recent events than are covered in the History section to the left side of the page. If you think it's superfluous, ugly, a bad idea in general, etc., feel free to alter it here, or comment on its talk page (or on this talk page) if you have ideas but don't know how to edit it properly. It's possible that the pictures will have to be redistributed to make the layout less confusing. Please add/subtract things to improve it. I think we can continue to elongate it, there's no reason why it has to be restricted to the history section. Also, if anyone knows how to put a buffer between it and the text on the right, please do. 卫weizhe哲^{Talk to me!} 22:23, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Keep an eye on the page

I have been alarmed by the recent wave of changes that appeared to have been posted without a quick "peer review". See [this comparison] for what i mean. the new intro paragraph is excellent, but should be placed in the History of Duke, not as the intro. some aspects should be incorporated, such as the fact of Duke's recent rise to prominence. however, the small tidbits in the rest of the article need to be fact checked. if doubt exists, please revert the tidbit back and cite reference is possible. i am in the midst of working on the intro article myself and will change the tidbits when i have time. in the meanwhile, please keep this article on your watchlists and check for changes. it is much easier to correct them when they occur. -- Bubbachuck 16:24, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Intro Paragraph

I have a problem with this paragraph: Moreso than with most elite colleges, Duke's status within academia is unclear. This is due to an number of factors: its location in the south; the success of its sports teams; its rapid endowment growth over the past twenty years; and its having been largely an excellent regional school--rather than a world-class university--as recently as the 1970's. These factors lead the casual observer to assume that Duke's people and programs remain a notch below the top level. Further, its professional schools tend to be more highly rated than its graduate programs, and some of its best-known humanities departments were built with big-name external hires; this tends to lead academics--who do follow rankings closely--to wonder whether Duke's intellectual infrastructure will stand the test of time. Nevertheless, in various ranking systems (including US News and World Report, Duke's undergraduate program is annually ranked in the top 5-7 within a "top dozen" that consists entirely of Ivies, Stanford, Cal Tech, and MIT. Many of its graduate and professional programs are similarly ranked. While of relatively recent vintage, Duke's status within academia appears secure. The beginning of this paragraph seems to be based on speculation. How do we know what the casual observer thinks? If there are some sort of references that could be added here, that would be great. That the professional schools are more highly rated than graduate programs might be true, but the analysis about academics and what they think is unfounded... unless there are some references here. And as for the last part about US News rankings, I thought it had previously been established that there was some "movement" to either just state the rank and avoid comparisons with other schools because of the yearly changing of the rankings, etc, or just omit it because there are lots of rankings, not just one. So I just took out the whole paragraph until some of these issues could be resolved or if the original author could provide some explanation as to the source of his/her information. Remember that this is an encyclopedia, only proven facts are suitable. 卫weizhe哲 15:01, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

reasonable points. In regards to the uncertainty in its place in the hierarchy, I guess I'd reference the discussion at the bottom of this page. Many casual observers are annually surprised when Duke is ranked 5th in US News, but the reasons for their surprise are, indeed, speculative. I don't think there is a definitive guide to such things, but is there any real doubt that geography, newness, and basketball success contribue to the idea that Duke doesn't rank up there with the Ivies?

I'm not sure whether rankings should be mentioned in an encyclopedia, but, when I look through the entries for a variety of elite colleges, they always mention numbers rankings to their advantage and not-so-subtle links to other elite colleges. If that is the standard, then Duke's rankings should get a mention. And if Duke's rankings are mentioned, I think it's reasonable to include some sort of discussion of Duke's relatively unique and mildly controversial place among much older colleges.

It's the usual tradeoff between dispassionate standards and boosteristic enthusiasm, but I'd be happy if someone else would like to rewrite the intro paragraph to Duke to include or explicitely exclude rankings. august 23

Pictures

There are entirely too many pictures on this page. It's making the article look very cluttered. Ttownfeen 21:04, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. I think pictures are important. If you think this article has a lot, see Boston College. But honestly, I really think they lend weight to the article. We want these articles to be as informative as possible, and photographs, etc. are an important part of that. Gregw824 05:30, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

both points are good. The article looks cluttered but the pictures are important. I think resizing/removing the pictures might reduce clutter somewhat. Bubbachuck 15:46, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Gregw824; the added pictures are very informative and interesting. However, I think that redistributing the photos will help the article look less cluttered.

Pictures, when peppered sparingley, accentuate articles. When too many are used, the pictures themselves distract the reader from the most important part of the article: the article itself. The Duke article is luckily not as bad as the BC article. I should note that I think many of the pictures are good. I believe that taking a few of the least pertinenet ones (like the Les Diables Bleus pic) would greatly improve the article. Ttownfeen 23:51, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

Really? I think the Les Diables Bleus picture is one of the most interesting in the article. The only change I would make is to place the picture of Epworth in The Move To Durham underneath the picture of The Washington Duke Building, or vice-versa, so the writing at the top of the article is less squished. JTM 00:18, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

I would take out bluedevilportrait.jpg, one of the pictures in east campus and west campus subsections, dukeconstruction.jpg or aerialdukewest.jpg, The Chornicle logo (it has its on page). And just so that you know that I can give as much as I take, the alumni photos can be taken out if need be. Ttownfeen 03:56, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

Related pages that need to be added too

• Cameron Crazies
• The Chronicle
• CIEMAS
• FOCUS Program
• Fuqua School of Business

Added to the Fuqua page. Needs to be checked and pics need to be added. Tinlash 05:13, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

• Krzyzewskiville
• Nicholas School of the Environment and Earth Sciences

Created a page. Needs to be checked and pics need to be added. Tinlash 03:55, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

• Pratt School of Engineering
• Sarah P. Duke Gardens Created it. Nees to be checked and have pictures added. Tinlash 00:49, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
• Terry Sanford Institute of Public Policy
• Universidad de Duke] in Spanish Wikipedia, for those of you con mejor Español que yo.

• On a related note, I just added 杜克大学 in the Chinese Wikipedia, 我的中文不太好，请帮助我！卫weizhe哲 09:56, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

I think the Crazies invented the term airball. Also, I know that SI ranked the Duke/UNC game at Cameron to be the #1 sporting event. We should add some pictures of students tenting and the cameron crazies in action. Similarly, we should add some information about how it all began with the Bunch of Guys, I think. Tinlash 18:44, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

You're right. They did invent "Airball" according to Four Corners: How UNC, N.C. State, Duke, and Wake Forest Made North Carolina the Center of the Basketball Universe by Joe Menzer. JTM 22:29, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

• • The Chick Hearn page asserts that Chick invented that one. I have no idea what the truth of the matter is. That would be a good on efor some enterprising soul to investigate. Wahkeenah 04:04, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Urban?

I am perplexed by the description of the Duke Campus as "urban" on the information box. The campus comprises 9,432 acres, much of which are forest, and the campus itself (with the arguable exception of East) is totally isolated from downtown Durham. Even the section of town that borders East Campus seems like it would be best described as "suburban." Considering UNC, a much more urban-feeling school, is described as suburban, and the College Board describes Duke's campus as suburban, I'm going to change it for now, though I'm open to any arguments for keeping it "urban." JTM 19:15, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

I would say it depends on whether you regard Durham as a real "city" or not. Are you defining Durham as a "suburb" of Raleigh? That's kind of a stretch. I wonder why either "urban" or "suburban" is even necessary. It's located in a city. That's a fact. Calling it some form of "urban" is, in a way, a Point Of View. Wahkeenah 23:01, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Wahkeenah's view on this. You can't define Duke as suburban because it's IN a city, the fourth largest in North Carolina, not partially in it, but completely surrounded by it, and in fact East Campus is in a densely populated area within a couple minutes walking distance from downtown Durham. Therefore, I'm going to change it back to Urban (and also, you can't simply separate "campus" from "campus area" in the infobox, the templates don't work that way, you'll notice that "campus area" won't show up). The reason UNC is described as suburban is because Chapel Hill has less than 50,000 residents; Durham has almost 190,000. Gregw824 03:37, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Whether an area is suburban or not has nothing to do with the population of the city it resides in. Mesa, Arizona has more than 400,000 residents, but is considered a suburb, and the largest cities in the country have suburban districts - such as Staten Island in New York, and Canoga Park and Toluca Lake in LA. I'm not saying Durham is a suburb of Raleigh, just that Duke is in a suburban section of Durham. Though I understand where you're coming from, I'm still inclined to agree with the College Board [1] that Duke's campus is suburban, but since I'm outnumbered, I'll leave it as it is :-). By the way, nice job on all the recent additions to the history and construction sections! They really add a lot to the page. Best, JTM 21:01, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

More NPOV needed

The opening paragraph needs a lot of work.

1) "...more open to innovation than its more ancient peers" -no schools in the US are ancient

2) "Duke values reevaluation and reimagination" -new buildings just means the school is expanding

3) "friendlier, more energetic" -friendlier b/c its in the south? -I don't see where "energetic" is coming from

These are all very subjective statements. And admissions to Duke, although competitive, is still ~25% which is much higher than most of the Ivy Leagues. This does not imply that Duke is worse or better, but some serious objectivism is in order. Bubbachuck 21:10, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

ok

I agree with you on most points:

1.) a.) The phrase "ancient peers" refers mostly to the Ivy League, which is also known as the "The Ancient Eight" so that's where that comes from.

2.) Yes perhaps that phrase needs fixing. The new building projects are significant, however.

3.) I agree with your assessment of this phrase, I don't know where it came from, but I also think it doesn't really belong.

4.) The admissions rate this year was 22%, yes, higher than all but one of the Ivy League, but that number in and of itself is not completely indicative of the admissions difficulty. You need to take into account self-selectivity/applicant pool, etc. I think most sources would put Duke in the top 10-15 most difficult schools in the country to be accepted to, Princeton Review puts it in the top 10, for example, and for a country that has 3000+ schools, I would definitely say that is considered very competitive. The term "competitive" in college admissions usually refers to schools that accept under 50% of their applicant pool so I don't think the current wording is really a stretch. Gregw824 04:37, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

• good discussion, will fix discussed points Bubbachuck 04:56, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

athletics

I see someone added a whole lot of basketball players to the list, which is good, but should we do this? If boozer and battier are up there, we should go ahead and add dunleavy, cherokee parks, and dahntay jones... and what about all the other player whose jerseys were reitred? The list goes on, but should we limit this somehow? Also, I'm adding Alana Beard and Jenny Chuasiriporn to the list hello

Drunkasian 17:36, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I agree that it's difficult to know where to draw the line. I would argue that we shouldn't add people to the list of distinguished alumni unless and until an article is written about them. Wmahan. 18:27, 2004 Apr 20 (UTC)

---Perhaps it would be best to only include people who were famous AFTER attending Duke Univeristy. In other words, it makes sense to include Grant Hill since he became a major NBA player, but not Chris Duhon who didn't go into the NBA. Otherwise, I would only add a non-NBA player when that player is especially notable. Perhaps a separate section (or even article) about Duke basketball is in order.

Actually, Chris Duhon did go to the NBA. He was a second round draft pick for the chicago bulls and is doing quite well. Esrogs 04:58, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

As of July, 2005, Duhon is about to sign a $12 million NBA contract; not chump change. Elton Brand is probably the best NBA player from among the former Duke stars.

Copyright

I reverted several paragraphs of text posted by User:Xwillx that appear to be copied straight from [2]. If we have permission to use the text, feel free to reinstate it.

Also, I have some reservations about the logo that Xwillx added to the article; see the image description page for details. Wmahan. 22:14, 2004 Apr 22 (UTC)

Chris Duhon did go on to play in the NBA, for the Chicago Bulls as their starting point guard, and even took them to the playoffs.

Location

Do you expect everyone, even non-Americans, do know where Duke University is? (It's hard enough to find the address on their own web site.) <KF> 16:14, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The infobox says the location is "Durham, North Carolina, NC, USA"; the "NC" should be removed. <Anirvan> 05:50, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm removing the "NC". For something as trivial and uncontroversial as this, you should just Be Bold and make the recommended change. –MementoVivere 20:55, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Add discussion about K-Ville, Cameron Crazies, etc

We should try and add some discussion about K-Ville, Cameron Crazies, etc. I know there's a stub about the Cameron Crazies, but it should be added to. I think the Crazies invented the term airball. Also, I know that SI ranked the Duke/UNC game at Cameron to be the #1 sporting event. We should add some pictures of students tenting and the cameron crazies in action. Similarly, we should add some information about how it all began with the Bunch of Guys, I think. Tinlash

Students' POV on the K-Ville and Cameron Crazies

K-Ville(Krzyzewski-ville):

This little tent community has become highly organized in recent years, and Duke administration rather likes to have it to point to as an example of Duke’s “coolness.” Duke students still line up to get into it, though. It requires registration, scheduling, tent checks, and sitting for long hours in the bitter cold. However, there are some perks—free pizzas, meeting the basketball players, and some pretty darn good basketball seats. When the temperature dips below freezing K-Ville, campers are granted “grace” and allowed to head back home for the rest of the night.

Cameron Crazies:

What Duke students morph into, as soon as they enter Cameron Indoor Stadium.

from the College Prowler guidebook, Duke University - Off the Record

Prestige

Is calling Duke "prestigious" POV? I removed the word from the intro, but Drunkasian pointed out that "Other university pages have the same word". I think one could make a good argument either way. I note that Harvard, Yale, and Princeton are described as prestigious in their articles, although Stanford and MIT are not. There is a related discussion at Encyclopaedia Britannica.

What do others think? I'll leave the word in unless a consensus is reached otherwise. I don't feel strongly either way, although I'm wary of a situation in which there is a rush to label every university as "prestigious", thereby rendering the term nearly useless. Wmahan. 22:42, 2004 Apr 18 (UTC)

Rankings Discussions

Since Omnibus revised the order of schools (that I based on the 2005 U.S. News & World Report rankings) in the statement "It is consistently ranked by U.S. News & World Report in the top-10 most selective schools among Harvard, Princeton, UPenn, Yale, Stanford, and MIT," I've decided to investigate the rankings from the past few years. From what I've gathered, these are the ranks for the relevant schools for the years 1998, 2002, and 2005:

• Princeton (1 in 1998, 1 in 2002, 1 in 2005)
• Harvard (1 in 1998, 2 in 2002, 1 in 2005)
• Yale (1 in 1998, 2 in 2002, 3 in 2005)
• MIT (4 in 1998, 5 in 2002, 5 in 2005)
• Stanford (4 in 1998, 6 in 2002, 5 in 2005),
• UPenn (6 in 1998, 6 in 2002, 4 in 2005),
• Duke (6 in 1998, 8 in 2002, 5 in 2005),
• Caltech (9 in 1998, 4 in 2002, 8 in 2005)
• Dartmouth (10 in 1998, 9 in 2002, 9 in 2005)
• Columbia (10 in 1998, 10 in 2002, 9 in 2005)
• Cornell (6 in 1998, 10 in 2002, 14 in 2005)
• Northwestern (10 in 1998, 13 in 2002, 11 in 2005)
• Brown (10 in 1998, 15 in 2002, 13 in 2005)
• UChicago (14 in 1998, 10 in 2002, 14 in 2005)

Therefore I propose the order: Princeton, Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, UPenn, and Caltech
vs. Omnibus's order: Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Yale, Caltech, and MIT.

--MementoVivere 09:41, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• That sounds like it was written by a Duke University alumni. Let me assure you that Duke does not belong in the same category as Stanford or MIT. The statement in the subject line is very vague. I would propose removing it entirely or altering it significantly to be much more specific.

Here are the U.S. News & World Report rankings for Duke, Stanford, and MIT over the past decade. (Please feel free to add any missing information)

• 1994: Duke (7th)
• 1995: Duke (6th)
• 1996: Duke (6th)
• 1997: Duke (4th), MIT (6th)
• 1998: Duke (3rd), Stanford (5th), MIT (6th)
• 1999: Duke (6th), Stanford (4th), MIT (4th)
• 2000: Duke (7th), Stanford (6th), MIT (3rd)
• 2001: Duke (8th), Stanford (6th - two way tie), MIT (5th)
• 2002: Duke (8th), Stanford (5th - three way tie), MIT (5th - three way tie)
• 2003: Duke (4th), Stanford (4th), MIT (4th)
• 2004: Duke (5th), Stanford (5th), MIT (4th)
• 2005: Duke (5th), Stanford (5th), MIT (5th)

In none of these years was Duke located more than one position away from Stanford or MIT. Duke was rated higher than MIT and Stanford in 1997 and 1998, and over the past three years it was tied with either MIT or Stanford. This to me would argue that Duke is in the same peer group as these other two schools. — Brim 22:44, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

OK -- factually you are correct. But the fact that Duke alumni feel a need to point this out almost reinforces the impression that Duke is NOT truly in this peer group. After all, nobody says Stanford is ranked along with MIT because everyone knows that. Similarly, nobody says that Harvard or Yale are ranked along MIT, or whatever, because this is widely known. If you have to point out that Duke is ranked along with these other universities, it implies that this fact is not well known, which raises the question as to WHY it is not known. Perhaps because unlike US News, most people do not really perceive Duke as being in the same tier?

I agree with you that the statement that Duke is "ranked along with such universities as Stanford and MIT" contributes very little and should be deleted. It's more accurate to say that Duke is a top-ranked national university. Making the comparison to MIT and Stanford is pointless. Why single out those two schools? But as for Duke not truly being in the peer group mentioned above, that's your opinion, and you'll find that many would disagree with you. Most everybody knows Duke's reputation in this day and age, and Duke is widely recognized as being one of the top institutions in this country, in the same tier as the list of universities quoted previously. Perhaps this was not true a decade ago, however, where--outside of college basketball--Duke was relatively unknown outside its region. Duke has become more recognizable over the past ten years, associated with its ranking going up. Duke is in a unique position being one of the few top-notch academic institutions in the South, whereas Stanford is similarly unique being the flagship academic region of the West Coast. They have a few other similarities, such as the importance of intervarsity athletics at each of the schools, but otherwise, they're geographically distinct schools that don't directly compete against each other. I'm a Duke alumnus, and I never encountered Stanford-envy, or even MIT-envy, since each of the schools attract a different sort of students. I wouldn't directly compare Stanford and MIT, just like I wouldn't directly compare Stanford and Duke. However, I do think that most would agree that all three are elite universities and that any attempt to further stratify them (a la U.S. News) is hardly valid and is largely based on opinion and bias. — Brim 07:01, Dec 23, 2004 (UTC)

• Let me assure you that duke is not in the same league as Stanford and MIT. US News rankings should not be referenced to claim this, as US News only represents a single ranking that many argue is completely irrelevant. duke is not known at all outside of the US. I'm from Singapore, where I know that virtually nobody had duke on their "top list" of choices. That was the exclusive domain of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford. duke was nowhere to be seen. To further illustrate this point, ask anyone what they know about Stanford, for example. People know that Stanford is in California, in Silicon Valley. They know Stanford is known for its medical school, for its engineering programs (EE and CS), for physics, chemistry, and that Stanford is also known for outstanding programs in the liberal arts. Nobody has a clue what duke is good at. In fact, I live in the US, and if I had not read this Wikipedia article, I would have NO IDEA where duke is even located. What is duke know for? I have never heard of anyone praising duke's engineering program. The only context in which I have heard of duke's medical school is with the hydraulic fluid scandal, where their hospital staff washed surgery instruments in hydraulic fluid. I mean seriously, I have no idea what else duke is even known for. -(name???)

I reverted it back to simply the USNews ranking. Firstly, I think we should only use current rankings, not rankings from previous years, unless we're listing a lot of them. Secondly, the article does not say that Duke is in the same league as Stanford and MIT. It simply states what the USNews rankings say. Most people consider these to the be the most prominent college rankings and thus they are used by almost every other college in their wiki. Tinlash 14:10, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Well, now you know. That's what Wikipedia is for. Ttownfeen 16:36, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

• With no disrespect to the international dissenters here, but Duke is an American university, thus the most important ranking and opinion is that of American newspapers and residents. International prestige is the result of national prestige...after all, Harvard and IIT had to become famous in their respective countries first. And to the anonymous Stanford supporters that are writing here, I doubt "everyone" knows that Stanford is all those things...in fact, I'm positive that only a student there could know all the minutia that was presented (outstanding EE & CE, physics, chemistry, liberal arts program, medical school...what isn't it known for?? underachieving basketball teams? but i digress). But perhaps I am mistaken, I live in the east you know. You are probably from the west coast, thus you know a lot about Stanford. People living in the south know a lot about Duke so lets leave it at that. Again, international opinion is a tertiary (at least) with respect to American universities. And I agree that Duke is not well known yet in the international community, but there are many many international students here and I'm sure its name recognition is growing. In case the reader above was wondering, Duke is known for its #2 Biomedical Engineering program. To show some NPOV here, I like the ECE program better. In any case, I removed any reference to ranking AT ALL because I agree it is fluctuating and very subjective (possibly influenced by politics, though I have no proof), and because i noticed other schools taking them down as well. So dissenters, you may claim some semblance of victory -- Bubbachuck 18:03, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

How about we have a separate section for rankings? We can list any major rankings and what Duke is ranked at. Or, we can just use actual data like selectivity, endowment, etc. Stuff that no one can argue about. Tinlash 19:33, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Duke Divinity School

Should the Divinity School be on the Duke University page or be it's own separate page? I was surprised that no one had/has added that on there. - JpB

the main article is fairly lengthy already. since the Divinity School is a graduate school it is notable enough to justify its own page. -- Bubbachuck 15:45, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Graduation rates

Here's a reference for the latest edit - http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/gsr2005/193.pdf

template in template

The reference template in the infobox template is probably what is killing the numbering. That's the only reason I can think of. --Ttownfeen 03:40, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Duke Lacrosse Rape Scandal

Trying to keep this story out of the article, are we? Haizum 05:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I would be cautious about adding news about this. Honestly I think people just haven’t thought about editing it in, rather than out of censorship. I looked at the history of the page and no info seems to have ever been added about the rape in the first place, which leads me to believe nobody has bothered or thought about it yet. Anyway, this would qualify as a current event first off so I don’t know if it goes in the Duke article or the current events section, and if you were to add this topic it would absolutely necessary to keep any speculation or rumors out of it and present the topic fairly. At risk of causing offense, people get easily offended here. It is easy to go POV on this kind of thing or be misleading. Sifaka 06:25, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at the below which was copied verbatem from the guidlines in Wikipedia News reports. Wikipedia should not offer first-hand news reports on breaking stories (however, our sister project Wikinews does exactly that). Wikipedia does have many encyclopedia articles on topics of historical significance that are currently in the news, and can be significantly more up-to-date than most reference sources since we can incorporate new developments and facts as they are made known. See current events for examples. Sifaka 06:25, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Update. Someone just mentioned it, but the edits were vandalistic in nature so they got deleted. Edit history 07:41, 30 March 2006 152.3.72.193 (→Athletics) I don't think vandals count. Sifaka 07:58, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

There is a similar pattern of behavior among the nation's elite schools; mainly a pattern of elitism that leads to incidents like this- ones that are not simply isolated events. That would surely be another article, but this would definitely deserve to be mentioned if such an article was created. Haizum 11:49, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Duly noted. Sifaka 16:09, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

While news itself is not covered, article are frequently kept up to date and there is nothing wrong with including current events in an encylopedic manner. Note if you visit links mentioned in current events you will usually find the even itself is also mentioned in at least one of the relevant article. The issue of how much to cover is a more tricky issue. Since this is quite a big and complicated controversy, I feel it should be covered in detail. Note that if you visit many other articles about recent controversies they too are usually covered in significant detail. I have added a section accordingly. I feel it might be better to move it to a seperate article but I'll leave that to some one else. Really I only came here to see what the article here said about it and was shocked when I found it was not mentioned. I am not an American and don't intend to be involved in it much further. Hopefully others will take on the job. However I will monitor this page and if it is unceremoniasly removed or cut down too much I real demand an explaination. Nil Einne 20:57, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

That was a couple days ago. As of now, solid evidence (an email for sure, but I am not sure if DNA results are out publicly, because they said it would be private) has been found and warrants have been placed. Before there was a lot of speculation. I think it would be more appropriate for it to have its own page. I would like to move it but I would like to have some consensus. Other colleges' wikipages don't have controversies listed, so it breaks the status quo per se. I would like to make a motion to move the section to its own page with a title like Duke University Lacrosse Rape Scandal (2006). Then I would like to change the wikinews to that page and at the top of the Duke University Page where disambig normally goes "For information about the Duke Lacrosse Rape Scandal go here" or something like that. Can we have a vote? Sifaka 04:33, 6 April 2006 (UTC) ***Note I am crossing this out as soon as I figure out how to do strike through. I changed article to include controversies section*** Sifaka 04:46, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

No other universities list controversies, yet many universities have had controversies. There hasn't even been an indictment in this case. Students from other schools who have been convicted of crimes are not mentioned in the Wikipedia pages for those schools. It is absolutely ridiculous to have this section on the Duke page. Xwillx 23:30, 15 April, 2006 (EST)

Where is Coack K???

I would have to imagine, undoubtedly, that most people think of Coach K when they think of Duke. No matter the reason, there should be a picture about him and more of what he has done for their program and for their university. BigMar992 21:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The article has enough images as it is. Plus, he has his own article. That article could use a press photo, however. --Ttownfeen 02:22, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Biased passage on lacrosse case.

Read this passage again:

"Early evidence indicates that this incident may be a fabricated incident similar to the Tawana Brawley incident. Unfortunately, the members of the Duke University lacrosse team have been vilified in the media prior to an unbiased, thorough investigation."

"Indicates" to whom? The physical evidence available to the public at this point doesn't indicate anything. And members of the lacrosse team have been "vilified?" Massive media exposure of the players doesn't isn't vilification or lionization. It's just massive media exposure.--Pinko1977 05:23, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Move Lacrosse Controversy?

I think we should move the "Lacrosse Rape Scandal (2006)" section to its own page, giving just a brief synopsis on the Duke page. This would put it more in line with other similar articles. Having the controversy take up such a large space on the Duke page, hurts the quality of the article. (There are also some NPOV problems with the passage as it stands. Moving this whole discussion onto a separate page would help isolate this as well.) Thoughts? Anagrammarian 19:14, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the length of this section is now quite ridiculous, probably meriting its own page and just a brief mention on the Duke page. Especially since in the history of Duke university, this event is not the single most significant - yet it takes up more space than anything else by far.

I think its significant enough to be a part of the page. It ties into the college's history of inclination towards white male priviledge. Creating its own page seems to me like escapism or playing down the whole incident.

The article should briefly mention the scandal. However, it should not overwhelm this article. A new breakout article should be created to document all the information. Pepsidrinka 17:07, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Failed GA

Major problems with images, most don't has source information especially the PD ones, needs a source on why those images are PD and does it qualify for it. Same with the GFDL images, they need a source. Thanks --Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 00:57, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I think its significant enough to be a part of the page. It ties into the college's history of elitism and white priviledge. The page should stay. FACTS are FACTS.

Lacrosse scandal moved to new page

Following advice from the sysop community, I've moved the majority of information from the lacrosse scandal to a new page because it was taking up too much space on Duke's page. Please take most of your edits on that topic there. Thanks! Anagrammarian 19:41, 14 April 2006 (UTC)