Talk:Trial as an adult: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 21:22, 16 April 2012

Law Start‑class Mid‑importance

	Law portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Psychology Unassessed

	Psychology portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Psychology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Psychology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PsychologyWikipedia:WikiProject PsychologyTemplate:WikiProject Psychologypsychology
???	This article has not yet received a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

A fact from Trial as an adult appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 19 November 2010, and was viewed approximately 4,100 times (disclaimer) (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that since 1990, seven countries have tried juveniles as adults and executed them?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2010/November.

Wikipedia

Countries executing under-18s

"Since 1990, only nine countries have executed offenders aged under 18 years at the time of their crime." But the table used as a source for this only lists seven countries.

Also, why not list all of them?

--Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:03, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strange that the table only lists seven, I remember seeing United States and one other country mentioned. I didn't want to take it too far off-topic into territory that would be more suited to Capital punishment, instead offering a summary. Perhaps a 'See Also' link to Capital Punishment in Juveniles as a compromise? Cheers, — Deon^talk 10:17, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Either way, I think if we list one or some of the countries doing so, we should list all of them. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:28, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done and done! — Deon^talk 10:15, 13 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. I didn't see this discussion until after I changed the list to *nine* countries. The original cite was old (Sudan added itself to the list recently), and *excludes* the United States (which has its own page somewhere). I've also changed the cite to the more recent Amnesty International page, which lists all nine countries, as well as all of the individuals executed. Rwessel (talk) 05:16, 20 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

RFC: Lede

The lede contains the uncited statement "Sanctions handed down are often harsher, as juvenile justice systems may focus on rehabilitating young offenders, where sentencing in adult offenders may be more focused on punishment and removing the incentive to re-offend". As far as I know, rehabilitation is removing the incentive to reoffend, and as far as I can tell, the editor who wrote this is confusing punishment with retribution. Should the statement remain in the article? 89.100.150.198 (talk) 23:31, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Leave as-is - I think it makes sense. But if you are confused by it, maybe it can be improved somehow. Speaking from a US perspective, the lead is accurate: when juveniles are tried as juveniles, the sentences are very light, the sentences never extending beyond the age of 18, the incarceration, if any, is at juvenile facilities, and the conviction is typically erased when the child reaches 18. When the same person is tried as an adult, the sentences can extend beyond the age of 18, the sentences are potentially very severe (since trial as an adult is typically for crimes such as murder), the incarceration (after age 18) is in prison, and the conviction is not erased at age 18. I think the lead sentence is accurate. Can you propose a new wording that is less confusing for you, but still captures the very large difference in potential punishments? --Noleander (talk) 00:35, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, the wording isn't confusing to me. Secondly, the lede can't just relect a US perspective. Thirdly, even if reflecting only a US perspective was appropriate, "Sanctions handed down are often harsher" covers your entire point about the difference in punishment. 89.100.150.198 (talk) 23:31, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral The sentence is not referenced, so it can be removed. But the way I see rehabilitation is that it is a form of psychological counselling. Note depending on the sentence (the judge delivers or some other body such as a jury), adults may be sentenced to rehabilitation as well. The sentence could be judged WP:SYN. Of course a jail/prison/incarceration sentence may be to punish, and punishment is a positive punishment so this would be an incentive to not re-offend.Curb Chain (talk) 04:21, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

also see incentive Curb Chain (talk) 04:30, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Rehabilitation" in this context refers to Rehabilitation (penology), not to a form of counselling. 89.100.150.198 (talk) 23:33, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Current version acceptable? 89.100.150.198 (talk) 18:21, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Leave Based on Noleander argument. Darkness Shines (talk) 12:18, 27 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

article expansion

I've expanded the previous article by adding additional headlines (e.g. controversy, juveniles' competency to stand trial in adult court, public opinion, etc). During this process I've reorganized the article and added about 30 references. I plan to continue to work on this article for the next couple of months. Mnortonb (talk) 22:31, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

great work

Wonderful additions! This is a very well-written and informative article. Acal26 (talk) 21:22, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 36: / Line 36: @@
 I've expanded the previous article by adding additional headlines (e.g. controversy, juveniles' competency to stand trial in adult court, public opinion, etc). During this process I've reorganized the article and added about 30 references. I plan to continue to work on this article for the next couple of months. [[User:Mnortonb|Mnortonb]] ([[User talk:Mnortonb|talk]]) 22:31, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
+==  great work ==
+Wonderful additions! This is a very well-written and informative article. [[User:Acal26|Acal26]] ([[User talk:Acal26|talk]]) 21:22, 16 April 2012 (UTC)