Talk:Stephen Harper

Nuances around who did what with regards to prorogation

It would be appropriate to say that Harper was the first Prime Minister of Canada to ask the Governor-General to prorogue Parliament in order to avoid a vote of non-confidence. He doesn't have the authority to prorogue Parliament himself, and did not do so. It may also be appropriate to add that this caused a constitutional controversy, and that it is still not known how it will turn out.

Comment on the comment: This is not a nuance concerning prorogation - the statement that he prorogued Parliament is simply WRONG. It should be removed or revised. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.200.6.10 (talk) 12:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I believe that the first comment is valid, given that Harper set a new precedent for avoiding a vote of non-confidence. That is caused a constitutional controversy is also valid. Thus that aspect of the comment should be added. TheStarter (talk) 09:24, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Agreed with first poster. It is certainly true that he had to ask the GG and this is the correct constitutional process; saying he did it himself is incorrect. Also agreed with first poster that he was the first to do so to avoid a vote of non-confidence. This is true, verifiable, relevant, and very interesting from a political perspective. The fact that second such controversy is playing out now may heighten the value of this as a historical lesson or precedent. 99.231.96.141 (talk) 19:57, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

concur with anon users. Outback the koala (talk) 20:30, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Background

It is necessary to make mention that the Conservative party, under Harper, are notorious about launching attack ads against the opposition on an ongoing basis. http://victoriastar.canadaeast.com/article/672171 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitchenersteve (talk • contribs) 23:31, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

It is unnecessary to list Harper's childhood addresses, as these have not yet been turned into national museums, and are nondescript compared with e.g. Marlborough House or Monticello. The fact that Harper is the first Protestant elected since Pearson is trivial. That Harper's church is mentioned should suffice. Also, the reference to Diefenbaker as an evangelist is dubious. He was a Baptist and came across as an evangelist, but I do not know if he considered himself an evangelist.

May I suggest that this information be deleted? --The Four Deuces (talk) 22:28, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with this. I think you should go ahead and do so. DiscardedDream (talk) 22:50, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Source for party divisiveness as a result of Harper's criticisms of Manning

Its claimed Harper's criticisms of manning's expense account was divisive in the party, and there is a citation needed tag.

Since I can't be trusted to edit the article, apparently, here's a source demonstrating some of the party squabbles:

" In 1994, it emerged that Reform leader Preston Manning enjoyed a $31,000 expense account from the party, for which he did not have to provide receipts. This was designed to cover such expenses as suits and their dry cleaning, as well as plane tickets for his family. It also included a $6,000 car allowance, despite the fact that Manning had pointedly relinquished the keys to his government automobile upon arriving on Parliament Hill.

Among the fiercest critics of the arrangement was Harper, who said Reform MPs were in no position to criticize the pay and benefits other politicians enjoyed at taxpayers' expense - which would become something of a habit - without demanding accountability from their own leader.........\

In the ensuing fracas, Manning immediately offered to itemize his spending. But Harper was excoriated in writing by the Reform Party council for his loose tongue.

"We're quite free to say these things in our party, but as a judgment call, I would argue that the messages we get out to the public should be something affecting the public in a major way, said Reform MP Diane Ablonczy.

"It's not up to me to anticipate press disasters perpetrated by the party," Harper responded, as gleeful Liberal wags heckled Manning in the House of Commons with calls of "nice suit." " http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20070418_190105_6228

Also, needs more tendercrisp bacon cheddar ranch.--24.29.234.88 (talk) 21:13, 12 October 2008 (UTC)--24.29.234.88 (talk) 21:13, 12 October 2008 (UTC)--24.29.234.88 (talk) 21:13, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Plagiarized John Howard's March 18, 2003 speech arguing the war on Iraq

A most remarkable video has appeared on YouTube juxtaposing Stephen Harper's March 20 speech to the Canadian parliament with John Howard's ditto to the Australian legislature. I suspect this to be a scandal brewing, but we probably need independent commentary on this incident to merit inclusion in the article. __meco (talk) 09:18, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Luckily this is already in the news media:

• "Harper denies latest allegations of speech plagiarism". CBC News. 2008-10-04. Retrieved 2008-10-13. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
• Cooper, Andrew F. (2008-10-08). "When Intimacy Truns Into Explicit Imitation". Embassy Magazine. Retrieved 2008-10-13. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

Apparently the above is not the only instance where Harper copied text from John Howard:

• Boutet, Chris (2008-10-07). "Liberals accuse Harper of ripping off John Howard's attack ads". National Post. Ontario. Retrieved 2008-10-13. {{cite news}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

__meco (talk) 10:08, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

An opinion piece in Toronto Star even states:

Plagiarism, as Prime Minister Stephen Harper has learned to his cost, is no small thing.

It may well be, if his decline continues to election day – costing him not just the majority mandate he coveted, but possibly the government itself – that historians will track its beginnings to the day it was learned that Harper had mouthed to the nation, on an occasion of great import, stolen words.

Coyle, Jim (2008-10-13). "Why political leaders' speeches matter". Toronto Star. Retrieved 2008-10-14.

__meco (talk) 07:41, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

This story is already present as a separate section at List of plagiarism controversies and further details are described at Canadian federal election, 2008#Speech plagiarism. __meco (talk) 07:55, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

A question for Canadian Wikipedians

Since nobody seems to be concerned that the story detailed somewhat above be incorporated into this article, can that be interpreted as Canadians in general finding this incident to be of little import? I find it more than a little curious that nobody has felt it pertinent to add this material, with the article prominently featured on the front page now for several days and everything. My reason for not adding it is that I'm very unfamiliar with the subject, and I hadn't heard of Harper until I watched the YouTube video. Would any of you care to give a comment on the non-inclusion yet of this material? __meco (talk) 09:47, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

The incident in question is described in depth in the article Canadian federal election, 2008. It's not that it's trivial or unimportant — it's a question of putting it in the proper context. Because this article doesn't otherwise contain very much content on the election campaign at all, the plagiarism incident currently fits in much more naturally there than it does here. It might fit in here if somebody added a much more substantial review of the Conservative campaign, but right now it would just be a contextless tangent with potential WP:BLP problems. Bearcat (talk) 12:28, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, I agree with Bearcat. So far, it has only been an election issue. As for not adding my comment to the discussion above, I find, to my surprise, that until now, this article has not been on my watchlist. DoubleBlue (Talk) 02:17, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I must aver that it's been much more than an election issue; that's purely a Canadian viewpoint, fostered by our own media and somehow dealt out of the deck during the campaign (a POV opinion I know but this is a talkpage); but put in a global perspective - and an honest national one - this is one of the very few occasions in which a Canadian prime minister has made headlines around the world, no less during a campaign, and no less concerning something scandalous (if trashy and puerile). The Bernier scandal is much more salacious, for instance, but it's not the same thing as a head of government committing a gaffe of this kind (unless you're GWB himself or types like Dan Quayle who made gaffes on a daily basis(). Point blank, this was an international embarrassment and made more impact on Canada's name globally than it did on the campaign; to which it's incidental alrgely, given the result (to me it says more about the lack of originality of Tory speechwriters than it does of any particular inadequacy of Harper's....just conservative boilerplate, after all, tht got tossed around committee rooms in Washington, Canberra and Ottawa and variously regurgitated)...nobody really expects PMs to write their own speeches anymore; they just should have speechwriters that don't crib from other speechwriters....... So I must differ - it's the opposite; it was not an election issue (though it tried to be) and rather it stands out as one of e few times in Canadian history any scandal involving as PM made it outside the country, and any election side-issue attracted international notice. The election's not the main issue, the nature of the international exposure was.... It doesn't have to be phrased as elaborately as this, but it should be mentioned in his bio; it is significant and not just in an electoral campaign sense. It's not the in-Canada profile that matters in such cases; it's the international perspective that does....it all got upstaged by the financial crisis of course....Skookum1 (talk) 03:44, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, multiple international sources would make me reconsider. DoubleBlue (Talk) 20:24, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do; the Aussie and Us papers for sure, according to our own networks' coverage...I'll check the Latin American papers I know of, and the main European magazines and daililes.....computer's running "boggy" so may take me a while (too many files on-drive).....Skookum1 (talk) 02:29, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

• Washington Times
• BBC
• CTV, but headline is "Harper's plagiarized speech makes worldwide headlines
• Alphatrade.com - "Media Advisory - Following the revelations concerning Stephen Harper's plagiarism and the worldwide media attention it received" and "Two days after the video's release, 1834 foreign media have covered it."

I haven't found the other 1834 yet; hard to dig through all the blog mentions and Canadian media coverage....

• 3News, New Zealand
• Welt Online (online version if Die Welt, Germany).
• news.com.au (Australia)
• Boston.com (Boston Globe online)
• CNN.com
• BayNews9 (Tampa FL
• Sydney Morning Herald, Australia

That's all for now, I've got other things to do - but I haven't even scratched the Aussie papers or the UK ones, or other languages yet....Skookum1 (talk) 03:12, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Swedish paper:

• Svenska Dagbladet

__meco (talk) 07:13, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

The article should mention at least that Harper argued for Canadian involvement in parliament for both the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions, before the government had decided. But I do not think Canadians care about the plagerism charge, and even though it gained international press coverage, it will not long be remembered. It rates along with things like George W Bush choking on a pretzel or Jimmy Carter being attacked by a rabbit. The Four Deuces (talk) 09:50, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, it certainly will be forgotten if your advice is taken and it is not mentioned in the public record, and we focus on his bugger-ups with Afghanistan and Iraq instead (although I gather you might want to talk about them as "accopmlishments"). "It will not long be remembered" if the spin doctors have their way with it; but somehow for all the spin doctoring in the world British Columbians haven't forgotten Gordon Campbell's drunk-driving charge in Maui (even though they'll still vote for him in spite of it). But you're asking us compare apples and oranges and want us to look at watermelons instead.....and your trying to downplay plagiarism as the equivalent of pretzel-choking and bunny-attacks is ludicrous. Plagiarism is morally suspect; pretzel-choking is accidental, although it could perhaps be deemed a sign of gluttony and haste.....bunny-attacks maybe are morally suspect, depending on what you did to the bunny first....Skookum1 (talk) 19:43, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

The matter is unimportant because, if the speech was copied from John Howard's, the blame lies with one of Harper's staff, not Harper himself. (Personally, I think the speech was written in Washington and sent to friendly political leaders.) This reminds me of Whitewater, Glen Clark's porch, and Shawinigan: take an offence vaguely connected to a politician and flog it to death. Focus on character, not policies. We should be talking about Iraq and Afghanistan and many other issues. Unfortunately, both Conservatives and Liberals have the same policies, which is why they resort to personal attacks. The Four Deuces (talk) 20:46, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

You don't get it: hiring bad staff is a matter of poor judgement, and in countries with more reputable parliamentary systems cabinet ministers and even PMs have resigned because of such poor judgement. Not firing the speechwriter in question is an endorsement of the wrongoing, also. That what was copied over from Howard's speech was actually a copy-over from a Bush speech makes it all the worse; the speechwriter should have known that story, and the PM should have been advised by that speechwriter that it was "Tory boilerplate" that had already made the rounds in two other countries. If Harper had the character you're pointing to, he would have fired the speechwriter and made a public apology. He hasn't. Stonewalling the public is not a sign of character, although in Canadian politics it's often presented by our media as "perseverance", even when blatant wrongdoing is clearly the case (I mean much worse wrongdoing like Campbell's drunk-driving or stuff like the BC Rail scam or federally any number of Tory or Grit scandals where the perpetrators have clung onto office, with their spinners trying to get them "more positive copy" on other issues in the hope/pretense that what happened "wasn't important"). The article will not be benefitted by substituting information about this, howevermuch trivial it may seem to you (it was un-trivial enough to get our nationa some of the rare news copy worldwise it ever sees), that's no reason to "take it out and talk about Afghanistan instead". yes, the article should have something more of Harper's Afghanistan and related militaristic, I'm sorry "military and diplomatic", policies, but that expansion/improvment has nothing to do with getting rid of the account of how one of Harper's speechmakers brought us (yet another) international embarrassment....Skookum1 (talk) 21:32, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Harper did not "hire bad staff", the staff member had an impressive resume. Furthermore, the staff member did resign and claimed that Harper was unaware of the "plagiarism". The Liberals chose this issue because they could not talk about the real issues: Iraq and Afghanistan. Ignatieff out-neoconned Harper on Iraq and Chretien provided Canadian support to the invasion. Paul Martin sent Candian soldiers to fight the Pashtuns, and John Manley helped ensure they keep fighting. But at least the Liberals write their own speeches.

Incidentally, no one outside Canada cares about its politics. The only Canadian politician anyone can name was Pierre Trudeau, and he was best known for his marriage. By the way, do you call Conservaties "Tories"? I remember when we used to call them "Socreds". The Four Deuces (talk) 20:59, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

They do care about our politics - when scandal or embarrassment is involved. And that's hte point here. it really doesn't matter twaddle that you think it's unimportant; enough major newspapers and news networks aroudn the world covered it so that it becomes, by that definition, alone notable outside of Casnad; not acording to wehtehr someone inside canadia thinks it's importnat or not. The world media has spoken and they're al ot louder than your attempt to treat it as insignificant. it's that simple. The citations exist to the effect that it caused our election campaign to receive worldwide coverage (if briefly and largely irrelevant to the campaign proper - but then so was teh whole campaign, no?); a citation for your opinion - a citation proving objective fact, not merely citing another opinion - would be interesting to see; the point remains that it is notable that this fracas got Harper world-wide attention. And yes, bad staff is bad staff - and a good resume means piffle as to whether or not somebody is qualified for their job and/or actually worthy or capable of it. Everybody knows a good resume is largely a piece of creative fiction....especially in politics....and in politics, it's who you hire that reflects on your own judgement. Somebody who would plagiarize so freely being part of an inner-circle of executive-level consultants does not speak well to the quality of moral fibre of said group; if he's exemplary of it, then all are suepct; if he's not, then they made the error in hiring/absorbing him....in Canada, as with your argument, it's being treated as if it'll go away if it's called insgnificant enough; by now, in teh US, there'd be congressional hearings....Skookum1 (talk) 00:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

And one big reason the world doesn't care about our politics is we ahve an overall policy of not talking about it, and keeping it as publicly dull as possible , so all the dirt goes on away from public, and world, eyes. "If only they knew" they might find damned good reason to care; but both we and they are trained not to know anything actually important about the way the country is actually run and what our politicians are actually up to. The real politics is suppressed; the big public stuff - Quebec, e.coli, equalization payment arguments, health care policy - that's made headlines in order to keep the other stuff out of the headlines.....but the point is headlines are headlines, and in this case it was newspapers around the world that 'cared", if only for five minutes, but that they cared is in and of itself notable.Skookum1 (talk) 00:09, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The issue about plagiarism is not minor. For one thing, it has reemerged again in comparing the most recent Conservative ad to another ad by the Republican Tim Pawlenty. MJeanHellyer (talk) 19:40, 7 April 2011 (UTC)Jean

[1] This speech is known to have been plagiarized. Should it be included also? Outback the koala (talk) 19:50, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Extremely prejudicial language assuming intentions, mandate and "strength" of government

This page is supposed to e about Harper, not about his government's intentions. So what is this doing in the opening paragraphs?

...winning 143 of 308 Commons seats, a strengthened minority government.[1] Harper stated on October 15 that he would summon Parliament later in 2008, would soon convene a meeting of Canadian First Ministers, and that his Finance Minister Jim Flaherty would present a mini-budget in November, 2008, to deal with the turbulent economic conditions.

My primary reservations here are the discussion of the upcoming budget and what he'd asked Jim Flaherty to do; this is all de rigeur in the case of any newly (re-)elected government, a non sequitur that sounds too much like a press release. i.e. pro-government hype/p.r. I don't think it's at all relevant in a lead/opening bio of Harper — it's politics, and something that hasn't happened yet. This should not be a platform for Harper's agenda.....also as any political pundit (who's not a spin doctor or party hack) will tell you there's not very much difference between a "minority government" and a "strengthened minority government". As one wag puts it, it's like "pregnant" vs "almost pregnant". either you are or you aren't. A minority is a minority, and implicitly is not "strengthenable", and can only really be strengthened by a formal coalition with another party. The reality is that Harper set out to get a majority and failed - that should be clearly stated here, rather than underscoring the government's p.r. that this is a "strengthened mandate". It's not; and the mandate actually dropped in raw numerical terms; a "strengthened mandate" could be talked about if there had been an increase in the popular vote figures, and an increase in the percentage of the vote; a 1.4% increase may have yielded an (undeserved) block of new seats, but it'se a reflection of voter disinterest - and the failings of the first-past-the-post plurality system, much more than it is anything toe do with the government "strengthening" its support. No doubt there's other soft-soapings throughout this article; I only happened to notice these because they're out-of-place in the intro (and misleading).Skookum1 (talk) 18:26, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

The motivation seems to be to get the POV words "strengthened minority government" in there. The current wording "won a new mandate" is also unacceptable as it is very POV. In Canada there is no formal granting of "mandates" and the government does not even exist until a Throne Speech passes votes of the full Canadian House of Commons and also the Senate. So the only neutral thing that could be said is that Harper's party won more seats than any other, and expected to govern. However all these questions became immediately very important during a series of events - the Canadian federal confidence crisis, 2008 - in which his legitimacy and authority to govern was not just challenged but literally *lost* to a coalition of other parties. Technically, it's in doubt whether he even *is* the Prime Minister as of early December 2008, and certainly no "government" or "mandate" can be said to neutrally exist until the vote of confidence can be held, which Harper has now delayed.

To top it off, both John Baird and Jim Prentice have apparently begun campaigns for the leadership of the party, to replace Harper and try to end the crisis while retaining the role of government. Which makes it very important not to pretend Harper has some "mandate" or that he rather than his party was "strengthened" as it is extremely prejudicial against all his rivals both inside and outside his party. This language absolutely must be replaced as 62% of Canadians are now actively engaged in a campaign to remove Harper and his party from power, and they would certainly not accept that he was "strengthened" nor has any "mandate". (post by User:142.177.104.18 who did not sign).

This issue of prejudicial language and bias is a real one. This is a man who has a very strong reputation for micromanaging his public persona, tightly controlling all news about him and constantly placing favourable pieces about himself into the media. There is a large and growing body of evidence for his use of this strategy in fact and a number of the statements in this section are taken straight from people representing him, with no critical comment. For example, his spokesperson is simply quoted as stating that Harper has allowed unprecedented access to the media, a statement that is patently untrue, based on complaints about his government by the Canadian Association of Journalists. Since it no longer appears to be possible to edit this entry (a reasonable precaution during an election), there should be an effort to remove such untruths.MJeanHellyer (talk) 19:48, 7 April 2011 (UTC)Jean

other comments

I find that Steven Harper really "The Right Honourable" he is making canadian women not to be able to stand up and fight fro them selfs. Not letting women get payed =ly that is just outragouse! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.167.18.193 (talk) 23:05, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Mr. Harper is a recovering alcoholic and in the 1990's attended AA meetings in Calgary. This quality shows his strong determination to deal with problems in a rational and forthright manner. No adverse conclusion should be drawn from this fact by the public. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.73.3.9 (talk) 20:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

True, but the public interest is also not served by not mentioning it, or deleting it....."some of my best friends are/were alcoholics/junkies"....addiction is an illness, not a weakness. But it's also news/bio-worthy....Skookum1 (talk) 19:39, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Reliable sources would be needed for us to include this kind of information in the article. Has he ever spoken about this publicly to the media? Bearcat (talk) 22:55, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I doubt it. As an aspiring PM I'm sure he would have tried to keep that quiet. --Thaddius (talk) 16:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

If this is true, shouldn't it go into "Personal life"? Or is that just reserved for his regular church attendance and love of the outdoors? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.195.178 (talk) 18:59, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, at present all we have is hearsay evidence from the person who started this section about his attendance at AA meetings. Given the confidential nature of AA meetings there's no way the AA themselves could or should provide info on that; if Mr Harper hasn't said anythign publicly it's also bad manners for someone else at any meetings he may have attended to say anything. Gordon Campbell was pretty much forced to go to AA meetings after his debacle in Maui, but that was a court-ordered attendnace, not a voluntary one as, if it's true, was the case here....Skookum1 (talk) 19:45, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Merge from Premiership of Stephen Harper article?

This has been raised on the Canadian Wikipedians' discussion board and there are alreayd merge templates on that article for Economic policy of the Harper government and its sister articles; see {{Harper Government}} for others; "article over-bloat" for this individual seems to be a product of his p.r. machine - is there any other Canadian PM that has so many articles about himself? Are they all really needed?? Just asking rhetorically; please answer on the noticeboard discussion, so it's all in one place....Skookum1 (talk) 15:24, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Just to note also that an article such as Media criticism of Stephen Harper's ego would have a lot of material...Skookum1 (talk) 15:27, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

All of these articles are unnecessary, should we post an AfD? --Clausewitz01 (talk) 03:07, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, just the sheer volume and coordination fo thre article suggest to me that WP:COI and WP:AUTO issues are definitely at play; I haven't investigated the creation-history and can't investigate and maybe shouldn't finger point (or am not supposed to anyway) but to me this is "overburden" and using Wikipedia for a p.r. campaign, like advertising. Politicla spam. I don't even think we have Economic policy of Canada or Canadian economic policy but we do have Economic policy of the Harper government. And by way of example Economic poiicy of the Trudeau government as someone noted would take a lot of research; ultimately original research, as perhaps these can also all shown to be, or certainly synthesis and "a discriminate collection of information" rather than an indiscriminate one..; especially if the information is selective or has been "washed" ,despite some contrary opinions/citations in some of them. Why does any one man need so manhy articles? I a'm leaning towards this being a WP:BLP issue too, as self-promotion is a no-no but of course that's also the point of WP:COI and WP:AUTO. Stephen Harper Leadership Team reads like a list of credits...."brought to you by..."Skookum1 (talk) 04:24, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Short version: is there such a thing as limitations to content? ie. in volume and scope, re one person. I mean, not a really notable person like FDR or Obama orNapoleon or Churchill or at least a dozen other PMs, just another PM, just another politician of thousands...Skookum1 (talk) 04:28, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I took a quick look at Jean Chretien's page, and it looks like he just has the one page. If that is the case we should go with that example. --Clausewitz01 (talk) 23:14, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

So what's next; a bulk AFD for most of the contents of Category:Stephen Harper? Is there a Category:Jean Chrétien or Category:Pierre Elliott Trudeau or Category:Brian Mulroney. Is there a template for any of these individuals anything like {{Harper Government}}? Im' only asking rhetorically, but the other point is if the YYY Policy of Stephen Harper series gest deleted (turned into redirects maybe) and its contents distributed into e.g. Economic history of Canada, there's no need for that template; or category. Seems like blanket AFD of kind may be called for....and could be quite a catfight given what's going on elsewhere, we'll see....Skookum1 (talk) 02:50, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Your right, a bulk AfD is called for, and it will be a bit over the top in rhetoric. How about we put these templates at the top of the pages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merging_articles#Proposing_a_merger ? --Clausewitz01 (talk) 11:56, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, there's a merge area at WP:Canada's noticeboard, not srue if there's a generral Wikipedia merger board...its' by far the safer way to go; I think we need to do a "census" of related articles-in-need-of-merging before we propose it though....Skookum1 (talk) 04:26, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Someone has already started merge debates on a few, but I'll start a list on this page so we can start to somewhat keep track. --Clausewitz01 (talk) 14:30, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Found a discussion about a movement to standardize articles about Canadian Prime Ministers. My opinion is that no Canadian PM needs a laundry list of Wikipedia articles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Governments_of_Canada#Proposal_to_standardize_coverage_of_PMs --Clausewitz01 (talk) 14:52, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

List of closely related articles

• Domestic policy of the Harper government
  • Federal Accountability Act
• Premiership of Stephen Harper
  • 28th Canadian Ministry
  • Canada's New Government
• Foreign policy of the Harper government
• Social policy of the Harper government
• National unity policy of the Harper government
  • Québécois nation motion
• Economic policy of the Harper government
• Environmental policy of the Harper government
• Canada's role in the invasion of Afghanistan
• Veterans' Bill of Rights

lead trivia

I think this sentence is trivial, especially for the lead, and should be removed:

Harper is the first Canadian prime minister born in the second half of the twentieth century

There's nothing remotely significant about this time period. So, being the first PM born in it isn't significant either. --Rob (talk) 19:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

More Harper wiki-fluffing

As per the issues implicit in the previous sections, it appears that promotional blurbs about "the Harper government" are scattered all over wikipages and I'm starting to wonder how many, and how extensive this problem is in comparison to content re other Prime Ministers....On Canadian identity there was a blurb about Harper's appointment of Jason Kenny as the "first" minister of Canadian identity right in the intro, as if it was big news; it's NOT big news, it's a name-change from what used to be Canadian Culture, which was Sheila Copps' portfolio (amongst others); what's news, perhaps, is that it marks the downgrading of Canadian culture/identity below/within Multiculturalism, which used to be a separate portfolio....So I moved the item down to the Multiculturalism section, where even there it only dimly belongs; unless some "balance" is included mentioning other cabinet ministers who've had the same responsibilities (if under different portfolio titles...)...even including those from other parties (GASP!!). This isn't the first instance of "wiki-fluffing" I've found concerning Harper, of course, and it's scarceluy going to be the last. I tried to look at "what links here" re the Harper article but there's no way to get a precise count of articles (as opposed to talkpages) linked to it which would give me an indication of how many other not-really-to-do-with-Harper articles have a p.r./press-kit blurb about some great thing he's done about that topic. What would be interesting to know is how many Wikipedia articles mention Harper, vs those that mention Chretien, Mulroney, Trudeau....Harper's only been in power for a few years, and only in a minority government; but the range and cope of his wiki-coverage makes it seem like he's the most important Prime Minister in Canadian history; and I used to think Mulroney had the most bloated ego and overblown presskit, but...sheesh Harper really does take the cake, considering his short time in power especially. This has got to stop (Harper enthusiasts such as those trying to "wash" hte parliamentary dispute article please note you can pretend to be NPOV, nobody else is fooled...even if you're otherwise regular Wikipedians...). Largely-irrelevant cabinet deck-shuffling and other "web-op news items" does not constitute wikipedia/encyclopedic content and should be excised from articles where it's found. The effect of all this sowing of Harper's seed in Wikipedia is to affect history, as well as to distort it. Sure, someone may put in an item on their political hero "in good faith" but that doesn't mean it matches NPOV or MOS and "what Wikipedia is not".....if there's an admin who can provide me a headcount of articles which mention/link to Harper/this article I'd be very curious to see the list. No doubt on national park articles, ethnic history articles and town/city articles (e.g. "In 2007 Flatwater, Manitoba was visited by Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who unveiled a plaque after donating money to the town's struggling pulp mill" - that kind of crap, though that's a made-up quote by way of example of the kind of thing I mean). Wikipedia is not meant to be a promotional venue for politicians, and advancing such copy is intrinsically "political spam". And believe me, if I found evidence that somebody was diong the same for Chretien, Ignatieff or Trudeau, I'd be taking the same position. it's time to purge the party operatives and their leavings....Skookum1 (talk) 16:12, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

I think the page is unnecessarily too long and could be drastically cut in size as to whats encyclopedic and whats not. I mean John A Macdonald's (Other important canadian prime ministers as well) page is half the size and his achiements are more notable. Just a thought to this issue Ottawa4ever (talk) 00:17, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Navigation Templates

First i don't understand why do the navigation links be hidden by default? Second just like there is a nav bar for time person of the year i think there should be one for Canadian Newsmaker of the Year. What do you think?
Also could someone fix the error on the bottom of the page...Thanks.. Ntb613 (talk) 16:00, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

 Done The error message has been fixed. shirulashem (talk) 20:05, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

 Done I also took out the navigation box that hid the links at the bottom. It hardly seems necessary to hide the boxes, especially since they don't take up much room compared to everything else. shirulashem (talk) 20:17, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Does he still live in Calgary?

Notice that Barack Obama's infobox lists "Private" residence as Chicago,IL and "Official" residence as White House, Washington, DC. Does Harper still maintain a Private residence in Calgary? -M.Nelson (talk) 19:23, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Prorogue parliament

I removed the part of the first paragraph that states that he "is the first Canadian prime minister to request a Governor-General to prorogue Parliament in order to avoid a vote of confidence in the House of Commons", and added the info and refs to the section Parliamentary dispute and prorogation. I would argue that this is not notable enough for the intro: it's not one of his more famous traits/actions, but is just one of the many actions he's done as PM. If we were to include this, maybe we should include every "first", such as that he is the first PM to visit the front lines of a combat operation (mentionned later in article). -M.Nelson (talk) 22:31, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

I strongly disagree with that not being notable enough for the intro. It was a huge deal when it happened, and it'll be a huge deal for some time to come. Your example about him being first to visit the front line is not even in the same league. That was a news tidbit, this was a several month long drama that gripped the nation.

He is the only Canadian prime minister to request that Parliament be prorogued in order to avoid a non-confidence vote. Every other prime minister in such a situation just went to the vote and took their lumps. Whether you think he was right to do so to avoid an "undemocratic coalition" or that he was just "saving his ass", it's still a big deal. Brendtron5000 (talk) 06:01, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

He is not the first Canadian PM to visit a combat zone as suggested by the colonel in the referenced CTV article. Mackenzie King did so in 1944 as reported in here. Can someone do a fact check to confirm this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.212.215.11 (talk) 20:56, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

MK visited troops in the UK, not on the front lines anywhere. Outback the koala (talk) 01:56, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

The anon. editor is right, the source supporting the statement is clearly attributed to the "opinion", though he seems to mean guess, of one man, the officer in Kandahar. I don't think that's enough to support including it as an unambiguous fact. In any event it really isn't true. Borden visited the front lines several times during the First World War. --JGGardiner (talk) 08:59, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

The anon. editor again (I'm not registered and normally do only typo corrections). JGG, thx for the Borden info. As for MK visiting troops only in England (I vaguely remember reading about this as a kid), the wiki entry does mention he visited troops in continental Europe after D-Day. I couldn't find any other reference to this. I also found an Esprit de Corps mag article relating to the Harper visit and recalling Chretien's 1994 Bosnian visit and how he was metres away when a Bosnian 'traitor' was executed. The article also says that to add to the significance of Harper's visit, it was said the colonel held a PhD in History. The article can be found here —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.10.138.246 (talk) 02:34, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I realize this is a highly controversial event, however it seems to be the case that PM Harper is *not* the first Prime Minister to use prorogation to avoid a vote of confidence. Indeed, the wiki entry on "Prorogation in Canada" speaks specifically to the 1873 case. Furthermore - and this might be splitting hairs - there was an opposition day scheduled for Jan 5, 2009. Opposition days, or more precisely 'alloted days', are intended to allow opposition members the opportunity to consider, and to make motions aregarding, the Business of Supply - which is inherently confidence-related - but it doesn't appear that any *specific motion* regarding confidence was scheduled. Akiracee (talk) 19:34, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Photoshopped image

Please participate in the discussion regarding the use of a photoshopped image of the PM in this and several other articles at Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board#Harper photoshop. --Rob (talk) 16:01, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

There is some doubt that this image meets Wikipedia/Commons licensing requirements. If anyone has some information they could add (see link to discussion above), that would be great. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 14:06, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

image issue, revisited

File:Stephen Harper (Official Photo).jpg has been deleted for insufficient permission. Commons:File:Stephen Harper official portrait.jpg is based on it, so I expect it will also be deleted. So, we'll need to discuss whether to replace it with an image from Commons:Category:Stephen Harper or see if another image can be found. --Rob (talk) 03:08, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

This photo would be the best IMO, but I'm not sure who made it or what its license is.--MTLskyline (talk) 16:19, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I changed the info box picture to one that looks more appropriate, it is from the Commons:Category:Stephen Harper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nhcmedia (talk • contribs) 21:16, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Controversies

- When then Prime Minister Jean Cretien announced in March 2003 that Canada would not partake in the US led Iraq invasion, Stephen Harper (then opposition leader) called this decision “an embarrassment.” http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2003/04/08/iraq_can_parl030408.html - Under section 119 of the Criminal Code of Canada, it is illegal to bribe an MP. Dona Cadman (wife of then MP Chuck Cadman) says that her husband told her that prior to the May 2005 confidence vote, two Conservative Party officials, offered her husband a million-dollar life insurance policy in exchange for his vote against the Liberal budget. Afterwards, Harper filed a $2.5-million lawsuit against the Liberal Party of Canada, the Federal Liberal Agency of Canada and the unnamed author, or authors, for publishing this information on the party's website. However Harper later admitted in an August 2008 court deposition that he personally authorized an offer made to Cadman in 2005. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080401/harper_cadman_080401?s_name=&no_ads= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Cadman —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitchenersteve (talk • contribs) 23:07, 31 May 2009 (UTC) ==GA Reassessment==

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Stephen Harper/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, listed below. I will check back in seven days. If these issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through WP:GAR). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAN. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions, and many thanks for all the hard work that has gone into this article thus far. The main concern is the use of File:Steveharper-outlook.jpg. There is no evidence to support that the image is released into public domain. If anyone has this information, please send it to OTRS OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 17:04, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

With no further info regarding the image status being presented, the image has been removed [2] --maclean (talk) 20:18, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

The concerned image issue has been addressed. The article remains satisfactory. It will keep its GA status. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 04:10, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Edit request

{{editsemiprotected}} Please change the personal life section from its current state so that it mentions Harper's concert appearance with Yo-Yo Ma in Ottawa on Oct 3rd, 2009. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/10/03/harper-piano.html

 Checking...Tim Song (talk) 07:11, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

 Done —DoktorMandrake 07:22, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I did it. :) Tim Song (talk) 07:24, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Yup, didn't realise I'd got an edit conflict. I've added a little more to it though. DoktorMandrake 07:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

The Harper family picture

I think it would be a good idea to have a picture of Mr. Harper with his wife and children. NorthernThunder (talk) 19:39, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Are their any fair use ones available? --MTLskyline (talk) 22:43, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism

{{editsemiprotected}}

Protection's doing a great job: "When he ate a baby, yum yum yum yum cum yum yum" (in the info box) -- 128.104.112.95 (talk) 18:13, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

 Done Thanks. Celestra (talk) 18:22, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

That really happened. Stephen Harper only eats deep-fried baby. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.141.112.157 (talk) 21:09, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

No, only American babies.

Occupation

Is his occupation actually an economist? According to his biography, it seems as though he never has worked in a role as an economist for any significant period of time. Homagetocatalonia (talk) 14:24, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

This happens with many politician articles in Wikipedia. Supporters insisting on inaccurate and grandiose occupations for their politicians. If truth were the key factor, a lot of politicians occupations would be "idiot". The McChicken costs $1 (talk) 17:25, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I've taken "economist" out for now, but what can we put in there?-Wafulz (talk) 23:13, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

He was trained as an economist. Some people finish law school and are deemed lawyers even though they never practiced law. We could put "politician". If so, then this treatment should be afforded to all politicians. So let's have it...all politicians to be called politicians? The McChicken costs $1 (talk) 23:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

The best I can think of is "activist" or "lobbyist" for his early political career. It sounds better than "mailboy" or "sysadmin", I guess. The only pertinent example I can find is Joe Clark (businessman/journalist), but he at least spent a few summers working as a journalist. Every other PM seems to actually have worked as a lawyer or professor at some point before politics.-Wafulz (talk) 23:38, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems he was an activist more than a lobbyist. What do you think? The McChicken costs $1 (talk) 01:05, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I've put "Activist" in. I wouldn't mind more input though.-Wafulz (talk) 02:11, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Kind of reminds me of "community activist". I would say that he was the head of a lobbying organization. Our article calls the NCC a "conservative lobby group". Though, for what it's worth, Harper declared that he was an economist when he ran for office.[3] Although I agree that he seems to have never actually been employed as one. --JGGardiner (talk) 07:15, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The Canadian Encyclopedia calls him an economist in the intro sentence, but again, no mention of him actually working as one. Has he written anything about economics (aside from his thesis)?-Wafulz (talk) 14:52, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

He seems to have never worked as an economist per se. The education would obviously it would have helped him as a policy advisor, MP and lobby organizer of course. But as an actual economist this seems to be a sort of "a man becomes what he dreams" kind of thing. --JGGardiner (talk) 18:15, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Every job he's had outside of parliament (working for a Tory MP, Reform organizer, running the NCC) has been political. I think politician is the only accurate way to describe his occupation. - SimonP (talk) 18:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I would say that "lobbyist" is a better fit than "activist". He was the head of the NCC after all. I wouldn't exactly call them activists. The most accurate is probably "politician" though. --MTLskyline (talk) 22:46, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

No, not an economist but a politician. You would have to edit all the other wiki pages for the other elected officials. People are defined by the current job they work not their education. If someone goes to law school but becomes a Realtor, are they still called a lawyer? If you go to school for doctor and become taxi cab driver then are you still called a doctor?,etc. Harper went to school for Economics but never had any job in this particular field from what I can tell. Labeling him an economist is misleading and should really be changed. I have an Economics degree but do not go around calling myself an economist. Michael Ignatieff (Liberal leader) obtained Ph.D in history but he's not called a historian. Mr. Ignatieff's (past) profession is listed as, author, screenwriter, journalist, professor & academic - jobs he has done during his life. Staying consistent means, Harper's profession should be something similar to, mail clerk & system administrator. It is not about what jobs make him sound good but being honest & truthful!!! Not bending the truth to make him look good. Though it really should be politician for him & the others because that is their present occupations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.155.13.236 (talk) 05:31, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

I reverted his profession back to Economist. There are few primarily notable sources that call him a "lobbyist" and lots that call him an economist. WP:SOAP --J2000ca (talk) 09:49, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Other than my ongoing discussion/objection to the notion of mainstream media in Canada as "reliable", I believe the reason that he's called an "economist" is that's because what he puts on his tax forms - even though he's never worked as one; is that what his degree is in? But for all of the last so many years he hasn't been an economist (except in his pretensions) and his job has been "professional politician": before that he was a "consultant" - meaning a lobbyist. But this is Wikipedia and it's not about WP:TRUTH is it? Only citability? And when the citations are stacked with lies/distortions, that's what Wikipedia will have, too....Skookum1 (talk) 20:25, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

You have to put your profession on your tax form? I do not recall doing that. Dbrodbeck (talk) 20:37, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Yup, if you're self-employed you do, it's a number-code that classifies your occupation so as to determine what you can write off and at what rates; "professional and business income" is the form, go have a look, it'll ask for an occupation code or something to that effect, and in the guide there's a listing of all the codes; though finding out what rates of which you can write off is a little more detailed to find out; actors don't get to write off what accountants and lawyers get to write off (which is virtually everything); but even plumbers, if self-employed, have lots they can write off. If you're self-employed and having been filing the business-and-professional income form, you've been paying way too much tax. Actors get to deduct 20% or so of their rent, 40% of phone, all their drycleaning/laundry, their union dues, and more....I just happen to know that because I filed as one ("creative professional"). Save your receipts. Anyways yeah, there's no place to put "Economist" or "Actor" or "Conman", but every category of self-employment has a code and a given rate (escorts put "personal services", for example, and can write off their rent as well as their fishnets and/or whips, chains etc.).Skookum1 (talk) 20:45, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Gordon Campbell still is described as a "school teacher", though the last time he did that was in Telkwa back in the early '80s...."real estate consultant and professional politician" is his actual occupation ever since, but the Wiki article still says he's a school teacher....but I betcha he doesn't use teh deductions schoolteachers get (which is zilch compared to "consultant" or whatever his new job is - "senior advisor to the Liberal government" at last I heard, though the press stays away from that because he's supposed to be "gone").Skookum1 (talk) 20:47, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

"Other than my ongoing discussion/objection to the notion of mainstream media in Canada as "reliable",", that would fall under WP:SOAP. If you do feel that way you could try to find other countries media articles that mention him. WP:BLPREMOVE is very clear that anything contentious has to be sourced.--J2000ca (talk) 16:30, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Then why didn't you source it when you changed it to economist? I assume that was you. You said you changed it above and it is currently unsourced. --JGGardiner (talk) 18:02, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

The 2 section down on the talk page has a citation for it--J2000ca (talk) 22:38, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Did you mean "two sections down" or "the two section" which is "down on the talk page"? I don't see a relevant citation in either so I'd appreciate if you could be more specific. --JGGardiner (talk) 00:24, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot sections can move. The citation is http://thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0009624--J2000ca (talk) 08:02, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

No worries. Although that link is broken now unfortunately although it is probably safe to assume you meant their main Harper article which is here[4] now. The problem I have with that is encyclopedias are generally not useable per WP:RS. Basically it is a dead-end reference that doesn't satisfy WP's Rankean policy. We need to have very good sources here to demonstrate that he's worked as an economist because it is at odds with all the sources which describe his background in detail. --JGGardiner (talk) 09:17, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

His official biography descriptions him as an economist as does http://canadaonline.about.com/cs/conservativeparty/p/stephenharper.htm . Also bring up some citations as a counter point. Your views on how sources describe his background aren't relievant. You have to find a source that describes him as something else. Also he has a degree in economics. --J2000ca (talk) 20:37, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

You think that a bullet at the "Gov't Basics" section of About.com is a high quality source that should counter all of the biographical information we have on the man? We've had two sources and neither one is in sentence form. I do agree that he has a degree in economics. Two of them actually. That's what makes him an economist -- as a dictionary (let's use Wiktionary) would put it "an expert in economics".[5] But that doesn't make it his occupation. Saying so would be SYNTH of course. --JGGardiner (talk) 17:59, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

http://www.chbcnews.ca/story.html?id=4603215 http://www.trueknowledge.com/q/facts_about__stephen_harper http://www2.parl.gc.ca/parlinfo/Files/Parliamentarian.aspx?Item=0218bf67-ef3a-4a8d-8ab4-0229e4fcaa54&Section=Publications etc, etc. The point is also moot until you product some sources supporting something different--J2000ca (talk) 19:47, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy IRL and trying to keep politicians out of my mind. As for the content, the point is certainly not moot. Every inclusion must stand on its own merit; it can not remain awaiting a better one. The burden of evidence lies with you per WP:V. In any event, one of your sources also listed his NCC position, so it meets your standards at least.

This information is in an infobox which requires the highest standards for inclusion. The information is included without context so it requires us to be completely accurate without nuance or explanation. When we are saying that he is an economist by profession, we mean both terms in their most general senses. It can't be a point that is debatable or has merely been said. Like all content in the articles, it has to meet the burden of WP:UNDUE. It can't merely be a point of view but it must be what nearly all prominent viewpoints are since it is included without further explanation. The fact that you are still having trouble finding RS at all suggests this is not the case. Your second source in your last post comes from a search engine for example. Although I realize it could simply mean you were just hasty when Googling for sources. If you can't find a source that describes Harper's career as an economist with any context or detail, it suggests it is a characterization rather than a fact. It might be reasonable for a person to say but the point is debatable and it is not appropriate for us to include it as though it was objectively true. --JGGardiner (talk) 00:15, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Self-serving codswallop also self-describing

Soon after leaving parliament, Harper and Tom Flanagan co-authored an opinion piece entitled "Our Benign Dictatorship", which argued that the Liberal Party only retained power through a dysfunctional political system and a divided opposition.

LOL. ROTFL. PCKB (pot calling kettle black).......substitute the word "Conservative" for "Liberal"....ROTFL, good humour at bedtime.....this whole article stinks of p.r. machinery and spin doctors and COIism....but that's just too funny....Skookum1 (talk) 04:40, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Do you have proof of COI? GoodDay (talk) 22:55, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

1988: Harper defeats Satan S. Evil

Interesting. Isn't anyone watching this article for vandalism? 24.66.190.107 (talk) 15:43, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Few people want to read about Mr. Harper. The McChicken costs $1 (talk) 17:25, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Longest-surviving minority?

Harper has managed to stay in power since February 2006 in a minority position. I can't think of any other minority-leading PM lasting this long without either being defeated or gaining a majority. Perhaps someone can confirm this; it's a superlative worth noting especially given the current renewed interest in the minority or "hung" government concept following the UK election. 68.146.81.123 (talk) 13:25, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an election in 2008, so those are two separate minority governments. Dbrodbeck (talk) 14:12, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

If there is a source, it can be mentioned. However, choosing only political commentary that you want to display and protesting against negative political commentary is POV pushing and not supposed to happen in Wikipedia. The McChicken costs $1 (talk) 17:25, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

It was not true when the IP editor asked, but it is now. Here's a source, but I don't feel up to finding the best place to put it. -Rrius (talk) 03:17, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 99.225.113.31, 7 July 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} On the page about Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, his profession is erroneously listed as "Activist". Mr. Harper, is in fact, an Economist, not an activist. You can see Harper's biography on the Conservative Party of Canada website, www.conservative.ca, for proof that he is an economist. Please change his profession from Activist to Economist. Thank you.

99.225.113.31 (talk) 15:57, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. SpigotMap 18:06, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

what reliable evidence do you have to say that he is an activist? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.24.8.12 (talk) 04:40, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

The Canadian Encylopedia calls Harper an economist http://thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0009624 . There is one reliable source that calls him an economist. Stronghold1245 (talk • contribs)

Have fixed the box...But this fact is clearly noted in the "Early life" section.... He took up post-secondary studies again at the University of Calgary, where he completed a Bachelor's degree in economics. He later returned there to earn a Master's degree in economics, completed in 1993. pls see Stephen Harper#Early life..[User:Moxy|Moxy]] (talk) 05:04, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

dude's never worked as an economist and he's never published any economic research. he's spent his whole damn life as an activist against taxes, the government, public health care, whatever. all you have to do is call yourself an economist when registered to run for office, and every other media source will repeat it.69.196.163.36 (talk) 01:30, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

You need reliable sources to back up your claim. Please see WP:V.VR _talk 11:03, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

npov

large sections of this article are a joke. very obvious iggy's hacks are here in force. Why are is the Prime Minister of Canada section just a list of the liberal talking points against harper? proroguing, george bush, senate appointments. None of these are notable enough to constitute their own headings. the info should be interlaced in to the article but I'm sure those edit would be quickly reverted my the liberal trolls that are all over wiki since an election has been called. 207.216.253.134 (talk) 22:30, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Of course, you've figured out how it works around here, everyone works in bad faith. Oh wait. We don't. Register, and you can edit the article. You can assume that if you add anything that can be verified with reliable sources, it will stay. By the way, I edit article, and I am not Canadian, a member of any Canadian Party, and could care less about the article, except that it's as accurate as possible. Also see WP:BLP for what can and can't be done. By the way, assuming bad faith on other editors is not exactly a sign of good faith on your part. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:38, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm familiar with the wiki policy of assuming good faith. Unfortunately the realities of wikipedia have shown that this guideline is little more than wishful thinking, specifically when it comes to article that are political or in anyway controversial. My issue with the article is not that they aren't more pieces of information, its that the info here does not meet WP:undue guidelines. As an editor of the article would you not agree that there seems to be a specific list of all the issues/policies/actions used by opposition parties against harper? why would that be if everyone here is editing in good faith and seeking a balanced, neutral article? 207.216.253.134 (talk) 18:18, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

It happens innocently enough. For example, I will assume that you are not a Conservative Party hack. And yet, on the adjacent article on my watchlist, I see that you asked to have information included in the Ignatieff article, that he lived out of Canada for 30 years,[6] which is also emphasized by the Conservatives and used in their attack ads. By your standard, I could assume you were a Conservative operative. Doubly so because I could combine that with what you've written here and think you're "pro-Haper" and "anti-Ignatieff". Of course I would never actually do something like that. But I hope it shows you it is too easy to dismiss an editor as partisan.

I think there is a natural tendency for negative facts to have the most resonance. That's why political parties spread them in the first place. That's also why the media writes about negatives more than positives. I don't think I've ever picked up the paper and read "Good Governance" in the headline. In articles about contemporary figures, our sources are almost all news media and they reflect this. This is a real problem in Wikipedia but it is more widespread than just political leaders and editors who make the mistake are not usually political partisans. --JGGardiner (talk) 21:03, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. Usually the controversial stuff is what garners most notability. Which means, oh 207.216.253.134, editors may got Michael Ignatieff, and add controversial stuff about him there.VR _talk 03:50, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Just to clear up any uncertainty, I am a right leaning canadian (not a member or "hack" of any party though). and was seeking to help wiki articles that will undoubtedly be viewed by many voting canadians represent a balanced view of both leaders (in their current state, iggy's article could easily be characterized as a "puff piece" while harpers has a slight toxic tone). I believe that both should have adequate coverage of both the positive and negatives that go along with each leader but wikipedia is dramatically slanted to the left of the political spectrum and its becoming increasingly less-npov.207.216.253.134 (talk) 22:58, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

I can't say I agree with you on the article friend. It would appear to me that the acts listed all took place and are verifiable. It should be left up to readers to asses the information presented, not controlled by your political leanings —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark Twain's Ghost (talk • contribs) 21:40, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Coalition vs. Weasel words

There have been a couple of editors that have replaced coalition with weasel words. Co-operation and agreement are just informal words for a coalition government. Kingjeff (talk) 16:02, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

In your opinion. However, actual reliable sources say that the three leaders involved stated at the time that they were not talking about a coalition. Fat&Happy (talk) 16:35, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Does this mean that Gilles Duceppe was lying? What doe you think a coalition government is? Kingjeff (talk) 16:38, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Kingjeff, you don't completely alter the tone of a section and then start a discussion after the fact, if you know it is going to be controversial. What a hypocrite you are!

Kingjeff, I apologize for calling you a hypocrite. What I meant to say is that you should not revert three other editors who disagreed with your use of the word "coalition," and then start a discussion 6 minutes later. Your reversion was before any discussion took place, when you knew that three people already disagreed with you. That seemed a bit contradictory, when you claim that no reversion should take place without discussion. That is all. :-) Besides, I did not even see that a discussion was taking place, as I was not looking at the Talk Page, only at the edit History.

After I made the Rv at Revision as of 11:22 CDT, 28 March 2011, I received your message on my Talk Page that "You really shouldn't be reverting when it's up for discussion on the talk page. Kingjeff (talk) 16:31, 28 March 2011 (UTC) or 11:31 CDT"—which was 9 minutes after I made my reversion.

After that, both I and Fat&Happy made one more reversion each based on reliable sources, not POV. --Skol fir (talk) 21:49, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

The article should be returned to the previous neutral version, and then discussed before any changes are made! --Skol fir (talk) 16:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't the one altering the tone. I was the one who created the section. Calling it a coalition doesn't make make it POV. What Stephen Harper was trying to do meets the definition of a coalition government. And you might want to stop your personal attacks. Kingjeff (talk) 16:51, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Don't take it personally. Just calling a spade a spade. As for the consensus you are looking for, both Fat&Happy and myself agree that right from the start, when you created this section, the wording was controversial and biased from your own POV. Sorry, but Wikipedia does not encourage political grandstanding. Do that somewhere else...and in your spare time, read WP:NPOV. --Skol fir (talk) 17:13, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict)If describing it as a coalition is not POV, then why is removal of that word being characterized as weasel-wording? If the word is neutral, it is not required, since agreement serves perfectly well. The situation was not described as a coalition when it occurred in 2004; in fact, according to reliable sources, the three participants stated it was not a coalition. For one of those participants to now say it was, seven years later, might be seen as indicative of either faulty recall or revisionism. Fat&Happy (talk) 17:16, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

"Agreement" and "Cooperation" are weasel words or coalition government. These words can imply that a given point is inaccurate. Which isn't correct. I t doesn't matter how anybody described it. The definition of coalition government. Kingjeff (talk) 17:36, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

That is your viewpoint. Wikipedia articles are not based on your viewpoint. Wikipedia articles are not even based on "facts", whatever those may be. Wikipedia articles are based on published reliable sources. Do you have any supporting your contention? Fat&Happy (talk) 18:16, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I started the section by saying, "On March 26, 2011, Gilles Duceppe stated that Stephen Harper was ready to form a coalition government with the Bloc Québécois and New Democratic Party."[7] So, it is really about what Duceppe said. In a later edit, I wrote "Harper denied trying to form a coalition government and called it a "co-operative effort."" Which I believe clearly shows that it is a neutral point of view.[8] Kingjeff (talk) 17:09, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

The point is that at the time of this incident (2004) all three parties said it was not a "coalition." Now it is Duceppe's interpretation against Harper's (2011). That means you do not put the word "Coalition" into the title of this section, because that skews the interpretation in favor of Duceppe. Our role as editors is not to side with one or the other, but to present a balanced view. That means using unbiased words in the title, that do not favor one or the other. All three parties agreed that it was an agreement, or "cooperative effort." They do not agree that it was a coalition. So leave out the contentious word in the title, to keep the neutrality.

I repeat what I said in one of my edit summaries, that this article is about Stephen Harper, and to protect his rights in a BLP, we must be extra careful not to show a bias. We already have enough opposing opinions from reliable sources in the text to strike a balance for Harper's opinion on the matter. --Skol fir (talk) 22:38, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Ethics

There needs to be a section on ethics. Harper's government has been accused of ethical breaches. On the other hand, Harper has stated his commitment to improving the ethic standards of his government. The section should be balanced.VR _talk 22:38, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

We have an article on the Federal Accountability Act. It could use some work itself but I'm sure it deserves mention here as well. --JGGardiner (talk) 00:54, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Economic policy

Economic and fiscal policy is another part that is missing. (Harper is an economist after all). Plus economic policy is usually a very important part of the biography of a Prime minister from a developing country.VR _talk 22:41, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

It seems like there is a sub-header under the Domestic Policy section here, though this I don't believe this is written without bias. Could this be re-written in an expanded (and unbiased) form? 70.27.74.136 (talk) 18:53, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

canada is hardly a developing country, asswipe —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.94.36.125 (talk) 04:21, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

"Premiership"

The Canadian federal government has a Prime Minister, Canadian provinces have Premiers. Calling his term in office his premiership means he is a provincial leader which he is not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.104.35.89 (talk) 04:25, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually, the word "premiership" refers the tenure of a prime minister or premier. See for example, Premiership of Tony Blair. Also, a Google search of premiership "stephen harper" will give you more than two million hits; premiership "kevin rudd" yields something like a million hits, and premiership "julia gillard". Rudd and Gillard are, of course, the two most recent prime ministers of Australia, where the word "premier" is used for heads of state governments. -Rrius (talk) 04:51, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

why is this section simply a list of opposition talking points? Are prorogations and votes of non-confidence really the only notable things regarding his premiership? This seems very npov 187.131.61.151 (talk) 13:36, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Controversy section

As this man and the party he is leading are quickly becoming one of the more controversial figures in Canadian political history, I don't think it is unreasonable to request a section in the article to discuss them. He has numerous such controversies attached to his name by this point, which is almost guaranteed to get larger before the end of the year. The robocalls, the F-35 debacle, etc. 184.175.49.105 (talk) 10:21, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

And those that are important should be included with appropriate weight in the relevant portion of the article, with proper chronology and context. There's no need for a separate, non-neutral dumping ground. Fat&Happy (talk) 14:33, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Marriage troubles

There are rumors of marriage problems. Apparently Laureen is being paid off by Conservative Party staffers. Is this claim legitimate? --Wiseoleman17 (talk) 05:42, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Your first three words answer the question: rumors simply aren't good enough for inclusion at WP, especially for a BLP. -Rrius (talk) 08:45, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Harper Painting

Should the recent painting depicting Harper be included in the article somewhere?

It seems noteworthy.