Talk:UEFA Euro 2012 Group A

Original research

Next match day scenarios are not referenced and are a violation of WP:NOR. Dr. Vicodine (talk) 21:23, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure? Isn't it under Routine calculations?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NOR#Routine_calculations

Kiwi8 (talk) 13:08, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll just give one example of this and you tell me if the calculation is an obvious and meaningful reflection of the sources, and what you need to do to check if it's correct without proper references.

On the next matchday (1 February):

• Ghana
  • will win the group if:
    • they do not lose to Guinea, or
    • they lose to Guinea by only 1 goal and Mali defeat Botswana.
  • will advance to the quarterfinals as the second-placed team in the group if:
    • they lose to Guinea by 2 or 3 goals, or
    • they lose to Guinea and Mali fail to defeat Botswana
• Mali will advance to the quarterfinals as the second-placed team in the group if:
  • they defeat Botswana and Ghana defeat or draw with Guinea.
  • they draw with Botswana and Ghana defeat Guinea.
• Guinea
  • will win the group if:
    • they defeat Ghana by at least 2 goals, or
    • they defeat Ghana and Mali fail to defeat Botswana.
  • will advance to the quarterfinals as the second-placed team in the group if:
    • they defeat Ghana by only 1 goal and Mali defeat Botswana, or
    • they draw against Ghana and Botswana defeat Mali, or
    • they lose to Ghana and Botswana defeat Mali by at most 8 goals.
• Botswana will advance to the quarterfinals as the second-placed team in the group if they defeat Mali by at least 9 goals and Ghana defeat Guinea. Dr. Vicodine (talk) 14:16, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes it's obvious and meaningful. Kiwi8 (talk) 20:51, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

The formula for these results is rigid, so indirectly, this information still comes from the source. 84.86.56.119 (talk) 21:29, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

So why keeping deleting the scenarios? These have been inserted for ages in WP without anyone complaining about before. It's obvious and meaningful. Schnapper (talk) 18:18, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

They are not referenced and certainly are not routine calculations. Dr. Vicodine (talk) 18:41, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Maybe the very complex calculations you are using as a not routine calculations, I am sure that is why not all these pages have next matchday scenarios. But for both this group right now (and for the group B) it is very routine calculations, very very routine calculations. So putting a tag on a page where the contents will be changed in two hours are in my opionon very much overkill and nitpicking. A general debate about when and when not to would be very useful. But not to be put here for the next two hours. It would be a very useful debate at WikiProject Football. On this talkpage it would be interesting to have many different editors to contributed to change or make a policy on this subject - a policy needed at most football articles. But for now I am removing this tag. Tagging something that are obsolete in a few hours are not the right use of tags. Jack Bornholm (talk) 18:52, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Nitpicking is the only way to stop this. Dr. Vicodine (talk) 19:23, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

The problem is that while it might be obvious and meaningful, it isn't sourced or reliable (the best example: the scenario now displayed isn't true either), so it can be a source of argument. Another problem: is it relevant? I mean, would you keep the scenario on this page for 10 years? Have you often seen "team X would have qualified if had won match Y"? While it surely is a piece of interesting information now, for an encyclopedia like Wikipedia, it becomes pretty useless after a certain period of time. Zokniaw (talk) 19:57, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

It's deleted/renewed after the matchday is completed or a part of it so after the group stage is over the scenarios aren't there anymore... Kante4 (talk) 20:09, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

And this is a updated relevant encyclopedia, maybe a little different than the 100 year old 100 volumes kind that we had 20 years ago. This one is updated after each match, not just after each match day. Jack Bornholm (talk) 20:43, 12 June 2012 (UTC)