Talk:Like a Virgin (song)

Authorship

Much of the material in this edit represents material from the article Like a Virgin moved to this article by me. Jkelly 22:29, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Marylin Manson cover

Did Marylin Manson cover this song? Cuz there's an alleged Marylin Manson cover floating in P2P search results —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.147.223.143 (talk) 17:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC).

Yes, he did a cover version on his album 'From Highway to Hell - the Ultimate Cover Collection' in 2001 although they haven't got it on his wiki discography. It is on discogs.com though. 90.202.31.245 (talk) 21:28, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

No From Highway to Hell (The Ultimate Cover Collection) is a bootleg and he never did a cover of that. Yawaraey (talk) 21:38, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

like a version

shouldn't there be something about triple j's section "like a version" which is a play on madonna's song.

"those wikilinking and italics are done for a reason"

Although I had considered those changes as a prelude to reviewing the article, your rather hostile revert of my efforts - yes, it took some time - has knocked me a bit out of joint. Would you kindly elaborate why you reverted those changes, other than saying "they were done for a reason"? I certainly do not consider the changes "unnecessary". The instances where 'publisher' was changed to 'work' is to conform to WP:MOS (and WP:CITE, I think), in that 'traditional' (ie paper) journals have their titles in italics while all the rest are not so formatted. The '|work=' parameter is the one which gives the italicisation, not '|publisher='. Notice I did not change instances where '|newspaper=' was used, as it achieves the same effect. Usually, there is little need to be so exhaustive as to include the publisher if the name of the journal and enough information already exists to identify and find the source article concerned. 'Time signature', 'Rolling Stone', 'Entertainment Week' are all linked to already. It is also bad practice to overlink - repeated wikilinks to any article are not considered desirable. Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 01:57, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't mean to be patronising, but I should also mention that a coiffeur is French for hairdresser, and a coiffure is a hairstyle. The more widely used past participle in English is 'coiffured' Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 02:16, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

It is done for the same reason as you stated above, online publications are not italicized and the work parameter automatically italicizes anything attributed to its code. Hence those extra signs were added to make them appear straight and not italicized. You changes places like the Media Control Charts etc, which are purely online sources. You should also notice that I didnot revert your other changes. As for coiffured, it was an honest mistake during reversion. The format is similar with all the other Madonna wikiproject articles. Your efforts are appreciated, however, changing MoS like that is not desirable. Sorry if my comment seemed hostile to you. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 03:54, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

OK. I apologise. I see what I done wrong now. Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 05:07, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Nile Rodgers' apology

There doesn't seem to be any indication of him having done something wrong, or which Madonna got offended about, so why is it so important to mention the 'apology'? I don't think the story isn't any the weaker without it, unless there is something missing which needs building up more. Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 09:39, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

It has already been mentioned that Rodger's did not want Madonna to record the song and announced the hook as not-catchy, it was for this that he apologized later. There is clear indication that this apology is not for doing something wrong, rather a normal human nature to say sorry for things which contradicts oneself. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 09:52, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's what I thought. In this case, don't you agree it's gratuitous as far as this article is concerned? Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 09:55, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

The original quote from Rodgers said: "I handed my apology to Madonna and said, you know...." Hence I believe this is not totally gratuitous. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 10:05, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

As it seems like a formal apology, the above cite is included in full. Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 15:37, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Reservoir Dogs

In the beginning of the Quentin Tarantino's movie "Reservoir Dogs", Quentin Tarantino's character "Mr. Brown" gives 'his comparative analysis on Madonna's "Like a Virgin"'. Is that reason enough to have an "In other Media" section? 148.61.117.180 (talk) 15:26, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Why is "Reservoir Dogs" only mentioned once in this entire article? - It's for the Lutz (talk) 05:53, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

First song?

The statement in the lead: The song is noted for being the first song by a female artist to have a profound effect on society. is really misleading, there is not a direct source that have this, and if that is the case the person who said that should be mentioned. The legacy section said that the song attracted an unprecedented level of attention from social groups compared to any female singer's song, this is not the same thing. What about songs from Patti Smith, Joan Jett, Pat Benatar, Janis Joplin, Barbra Streisend, Aretha Franklin, Blondie, even Cyndi Lauper. "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" was released a year before, if you were living in Northamerica during 1983 and you were old enough to remember, you would clearly remember the song and the impact it had back then, it may not have attracted the attention of social groups but the impact on feminist movements was huge. That part should be reworded or removed altogether. 190.234.90.14 (talk) 05:17, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

No, it is sourced and present. The explanation clearly prooves the effect of the song, not only in US, but elsewhere. A feminist impact is not the same as an impact on the hwole society by provoking them, which this song clearly did. This is not original research, scholars and academics have written about the song's notability in this area. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 05:21, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Please point the exact source where is saids that "Like a Virgin" was the first song to have a profound effect on society. The quote from the Legacy section dosen't mention this. Per WP:SYNTHESIS: Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. 190.234.90.14 (talk) 05:26, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Authors Mary Cross and Carol Clerk, biographer Andrew Morton etc already notes this. Case closed. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 06:25, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

This is a lie, none of those books said what is written in the lead, that this is the first song that have an effect on society, so decades and decades of songs didn't have any impact whatsoever, hardly. I will re-add the tag that you removed until a direct quote is given. 190.234.90.14 (talk) 06:42, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

All of these authors say that it was the first song by a female artist to have such a provoked effect on society and all of these is present in the book references cited. If you continue adding such unnecessary tags, you will be reported. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 06:45, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

That is not true, I can easily access those books in Google Books, none of the sources said that was the first, not Madonnastyle, not the Andrew Morton biography, not Madonna: The Style Book. You clearly put your own conclusion, which is not correct nor appropiate. 190.234.90.14 (talk) 06:56, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Clerk clearly stated that the song attracted such attention, more so than any female singer's song. She says "the song caused storms of outrage around the world as her reputation gathered a new and controversial clout. Never before a female singer's song has attracted such level of attention. It was not Madonna's fault that so many people listened to superficially to the lyric." In BB book of number-one albums, Craig Rosen comments "Madonna had a vision. She knew that 'Like a Virgin' was the single that would attract unwanted attention to it." Taraborrelli comments on the effect of the song on fashion and younger generation. Hence the song affected the society and was received in both positive and negative way. ll of them use the word "first" in their notations. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 07:42, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

The fact that it said that attracted more attention that any other song by a female artist attracted at that point dosen't mean that it was the first one to do it, like I said before the statement is misleading. None of the sources you are citing said first. 190.234.90.14 (talk) 08:00, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

{Outdent)clerk used the word unprecedented, Taraborrelli did use "first", Morton said never before - all of these point to the simple fact that they beleived "Like a Virgin" was the first song to do so. You are making argument for argument's sake. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 08:28, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

You said it yourself, they use never before, unprecedent but not in the context the lead is referring, they said that the amount of attention was unprecedent and never seen before, that does not make it the first, it means that it gathered more attention that all the previous songs released by female artists not that it was the first one that generated an effect on society. That line is clearly unaccurate. 190.234.90.14 (talk) 08:52, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I believe we can definitely reword it as Clerk says and achieve a consensus on this. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 09:40, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

As the editor who initially added the "whom" template to this statement in the lead, I think I should comment. I had a problem with the claim that the song was "noted for being the first song by a female artist to have a profound effect on society" because it's demonstrably false that this song was the first. Someone may have "noted" it as such, but that someone would be wrong and, in fact, I don't think anyone of repute has made such a claim. In my edit summary, I specifically mentioned the example of the song "Strange Fruit", recorded by Billie Holiday in 1939 which arguably had a much bigger impact on society than "Like a Virgin". "Strange Fruit" is credited as a major impetus behind the civil rights movement. I've removed any reference to "Like a Virgin" being the "first" in its impact on society because such a statement isn't supported by the evidence. I think my current wording ("The song is noted for its profound effect on society") is fair and accurate. —D. Monack ^talk 00:41, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

• Change statement in lede. As is being argued, being the first to have profound effects is not the same as having unprecedented effects or greater impact than in the past. —Ost (talk) 18:07, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
• Comment - before I read any of this, I immeadiately thought of "Strange Fruit" as taking the honour of "being the first song by a female artist to have a profound effect on society". There have been many others between that and "Like a Virgin", as pointed out. What about D-I-V-O-R-C-E or Stand by Your Man? Anyway, "Like a Virgin" was written by two male songwriters not by Madonna, so the original lead statement was a little misleading in that sense, also. "The song is noted for its profound effect on society" is fine --Jubilee♫clipman 23:30, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
• Drop comment Obvious unjustified hyperbole. Martin Hogbin (talk) 15:05, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - When referring to the key of the song, it should be noted that Madonna's studio recording, and all other subsequent releases of the song are in in F Sharp Major. Only the original demo version by Steinberg Kelly is in F Major. This should be emphasized to avoid confusion. My source of this information is my absolute pitch (AP).Kevkunx (talk) 05:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Billboard

This song was ranked in Billboards 100 greatest songs of all time

http://www.billboard.com/specials/hot100/charts/top100-titles-00.shtml (98.181.62.167 (talk) 20:49, 28 June 2012 (UTC))