Talk:Baccano!

First header

Baccano in Italian means NOISE and not commotion! A translation for commotion may be CASINO, but baccano is way off something not related to noise or cacophony.

But noise makes no sense as the title of this book. Commotion is a synonym for noise, but does actually match the title. Basically, what we have here is the Japanese author getting the translation wrong, so to explain the title, we have to translate from his translation of Baccano. According to Narita, Baccano means Baka sawagi -- which may be stretching the truth. But translating a word that means noise as commotion based on the context in which it is used is well within the realm of fair translation. Doceirias 22:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

It's clear that the Japanese author has simply taken a cool sounding foreign word and somewhat got a wrong translation, that happened many times especially with English, French and German words. The problem is that the line "Baccano is Italian for commotion" is wrong.

Better? (I still don't see that noise and commotion are different enough to care, but might as well be accurate.)

Also, type ~ four times after comments to sign them. Doceirias 23:51, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Better! 84.223.67.82 00:20, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Given the setting, the English translation they intended may have been "racket."PlumBob78 (talk) 01:41, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Light Novels section

Trying to beef this up with summaries. Looks terrible. I spent about an hour trying to figure out how to make a table like the episode lists, with the title and ISBN and maybe publication date on top, and a summary below, but the table tutorial just gave me a headache. Doceirias 22:17, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I tried messing around with the table instructions and ended up with the table you see below. We can tweak it here before introducing it to the article. I think the biggest thing it needs is left-aligned titles, but I haven't figured that out yet. Leebo ^T/C 23:08, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I tried a few things that should have left justified it, but they just showed up as text. Otherwise, pretty much looks good to go. Thanks! Doceirias 01:56, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, probably a bigger problem is that it'll run right into the infobox. I'll have to start a character list or something on top of it... Doceirias 02:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Never mind, they appear to have fixed that bug in Firefox. Doceirias 02:31, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks good. I've been looking forward to the anime series since seeing the trailer. I'll contribute more once I'm familiar with the plot. Leebo ^T/C 02:33, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm looking forward to finding out just how they're going to get four novels into twelve episodes. Looks like the entire first novel is going to get compressed into one episode, or else spread out through the rest of the series in flashbacks. Should be interesting to compare. I would have written longer novel summaries, but I'm terrible at writing summaries in the proper style. Have you seen the character chart on the official site? Astonishing. Arrows everywhere. Doceirias 02:45, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I've added seven new novel listings (Grand Punk Revisited novel, The five 'A Man in the Killer' novels, and 'The Illusional First and Last Episode' novel). Could someone over in the land of the rising sun get their ISBNs and Release dates? I'm also unsure about the Grand Punk revisited Release date, but my... sources tell me feb 2005. Ifsey 00:14, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

With some difficulty I've removed them, since they don't exist. I own all the novels, and I believe what you're actually talking about here are uncollected short stories that appeared in magazines, but not in bunko format; they have no ISBNs, and should not be listed with the real novels. The 193X one, for example, is a novel serialized as a bonus for the anime DVDs. I hate to just take all the work out, but there were a number of unnecessary or confusingly written additions, and changing the translation of Shaba was not, in my professional opinion, accurate. Doceirias (talk) 02:56, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

what? really? damn. i'm gonna kill my bro when i see him next. he said he was gonna buy me the first 2 A man in the killer novels. well, i'll talk to him and ask him, since he just told me the full listings. Oh, and i hardly think skipping back a few changes is difficult, as that's what you've done. i added more information in novel descriptions, which have dissapeared —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.169.1.77 (talk) 17:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

It's not difficult, I just fucked it up. Forgot you have to do it from the history page. Adding Tick's name and correcting the spelling on Huey were legitimate changes, and I should have kept them; some of the others seemed awkwardly crammed in. Not that you can't add that information, but try and make it read better when you do. Doceirias (talk) 17:43, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

OKey Dokey. anyways, back to the light novels. I've been tryin' to get my hands on Alice in jails (prison AND world/free chapter) (japanese language) online, and to no avail. ideas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.169.1.77 (talk) 23:14, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Street is probably the best translation here; shaba means the world outside of prison, and the book covers the events on the streets of Chicago. Amazon.co.jp sells the volumes, but ordering from Kinokunia will probably be cheapter; Amazon's shipping is insane. Doceirias (talk) 03:38, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Kinokunia don't have it (or at least the japanese website disagrees with me), and amazon ship to the uk for £20

Apparently, if you spend 1,500 yen, free delivery, but i doubt if that includes outside japan Thanks anyways. ifsey (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.43.76.4 (talk) 23:22, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if they have shops in the UK, but they can order anything for you if you have the ISBN. Doceirias (talk) 01:52, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Shounen?

Why Shounen? It's not really Shounen-like... 62.47.191.120 23:57, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Its published under the Dengeki Bunko label, a label for boys.

What is supposed to be "shounen-like" >.> Naruto and Bleach >.> ChuChu

Actually, Dengeki Bunko contents are clearly aimed at an older audience than that - sexual content is not as high as Young Jump or seinen titles, but there are no furigana and the violence/mature themes level tends to be higher. Depends on the series, of course. They're basically Young Adult novels, which falls a bit between shonen and seinen.

Either way, we've agreed (on the project talk page) to change the demographic to "male" which seems to please everyone. Doceirias 00:12, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I do agree about Young Adult light novels. but should it be plural: males or keep it as male? ChuChu

Uh. I have no idea. I'm guessing male, since it is Young Adult novels and not Young Adults novels. Doceirias 00:32, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Shounen/seinen are demographics, there's nothing qualitative in the story that pigeon-hole a certain idea to a demograpic, though the fan communities have associations with them due to mainstream comics and often label traits common to shounen/seinen (for the former, friend-centric plots, the latter sexuality). Light novels are over-whelmingly targeted at a seinen audience, they only get re-oriented to a shounen audience when ported across the pond and heavily localised, as we see in the Naruto and Shakugan no Shana light novel series published under the VIZ Media imprint. The correct demographic for this is "seinen", and I think embarassment bias over association with "shounen" or "seinen" demographics shouldn't be considered when selecting an appropriate term for this article. We really need to brush off such un-necessary thoughts when following standard protocol. Terek (talk) 11:04, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I would be happy with Seinen. ChuChu, however, insisted on marking it as Shonen, based only on the manga and some misinformation about light novels. When it became clear there was no convincing him, we compromised on Male. Doceirias (talk) 20:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Many light novel labels target males from their teens to men in their twenties, saying it's targeted at "seinen" (young man) is not wrong, it is aimed at males after all, but it's not totally correct too. many light novel labels target the audience of teenage boys to men in their twenties, among them are: GA Bunko, Sneaker Bunko and HJ Bunko. Though, I'm a seinen myself, so I really don't care if you put it as "seinen". --ChuChu (talk) 22:02, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I would like to add, while limiting the specificity of the books to "Male" is fine, the anime is obviously Seinen. It aired after midnight, and has extremely graphic violence. Zhir (talk) 09:12, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

ANN

Before anyone deletes it citing copyright, I should point out that ANN stole the Overview plot summary from Wikipedia, not the other way around. Doceirias 18:11, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

ANN - OH! I hoped they cited themselves as having taken content from Wiki >_< 24.19.25.118 08:05, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the person did, but the guy who wrote the original bit is an ANN member, and didn't seem overly upset. Zhir (talk) 09:14, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Story

Ummm... So what is stupid commotion??? I still don't understand what the premise of the story is :/ Something about Alchemists killing one another, going into hiding, coming out of hiding and then waa?? 24.19.25.118 08:05, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

(Based on the Anime) They go their seperate ways and eventually, by accident or planned, end up on a train called the Flying Pussyfoot. None of the immortals has died yet (Up until episode7 at least), but there is a mysterious killer on that train called the 'Rail tracer'(immortal or not?). The killer has already killed over 6 mortals including the two and only train drivers for the non-stop trip to NY. That's basicly it, for the anime at least. Ge4ce 11:03, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Nice and Jacuzzi

When Jacuzzi kisses Nice, she says something that the fansubbers appear to have translated carelessly - implying that they have been a couple for a long time without kissing. Based on the novels, however, I don't think this is the case - I got the impression the had been friends, and this was the first indication she had that Jacuzzi felt otherwise. The Japanese in question can be interpreted either way. I would recommend not adding anything about their relationship to character list - even if I'm proven wrong by events in the last novels, that information is both a spoiler for later episodes of the anime and an extremely minor detail, covering about ten seconds of screen time. Doceirias 05:24, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I can agree on that. I just want to quote the conversation from that Episode 10, to clear things up. (Even if it should become a spoiler for the people who havn't seen it.)

Jacuzzi: "Nice, we'll definatly come back, so don't do anything crazy."

~Jacuzzi gives Nice a kiss~

Brother of Nice: "You two sure are hot for each other, eh, Sis?"

~Nice is confused~

Nice: "Just now...was the first time!"

Surprised Brother: "The first time?! You have to be joking!

You and Jacuzzi have been dating for 10 years already, right?!

Without even one kiss?!

You can be too much of a coward, Jacuzzi!

But you're to blame too, Sis!"

~Nice tries to avoid the conversation by climbing up the train and crawling over the roof~

I think that the translation is wrong, but since I don't know any Japanese, I can't back it up. Ge4ce 10:12, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, based on a quick skim of the relevant section, that scene does not appear to be in the novel. Doceirias 19:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I haven't looked through the novel to see if that scene is there or not, but just as a language note: the Japanese verb used in that scene, tsukiau, is often used as "to go out with", but can simply mean "to accompany" or "to hang out with". It is possible that the guy was simply commenting on them knowing each other for so long, and clearly liking each other. Also, he's not her brother. 220.110.51.42 (talk) 08:46, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Stop bloating the characters section, Doceirias

Reveals way too much. If you like the story so much, learn moonspeak and translate the light novels.

A. I am a professional translator, and do translate light novels for a living. I'd love to translate these, yes.

B. I wrote one line versions of all those characters, and have been busy trimming excessive and inaccurate additions by IPs ever since. Doceirias (talk) 07:36, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Seriously though, it spoils a lot. I have this article linked in a forum thread and people are complaining that you spoon-feed the entire story through what should be an objective list of characters. The only excessive additions are yours. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.74.198.219 (talk) 06:44, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually I think its spoilers are fine. I was thinking of expanding the characters section to include as much info from the japanese wiki as I can decipher, but since the people here are so defensive I think I rather not. Well, to me Wikipedia is where I come to find spoilers. Its up to the reader what he or she reads. Iron2000 13:55, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Spoilers are fine in Wikipedia, just not on the main page. The main page is supposed to provide basic information. Severe spoilers about characters should be put on a separate page. Actually, considering the extensive amount of characters Baccano! has, creating a separate "List of Baccano! Characters", with spoilers and everything, is a pretty good idea. Scroogey McDucky (talk) 07:52, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

That would help a lot, because the character list now is pretty much just a rough description using incomplete sentences. And its almost impossible to describe them any more than what there is now without delving into serious spoilers that apparently get people angry... as if nobody realizes that if you wiki a show you're going to get spoiled. :| -- 71.136.237.118 (talk) 12:18, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

The Episode Descriptions

From the paragraph on episode 13:

"They have a thing going on." & "and Isaac gives another cringe-inciting explanation."

Isn't it a bit too informal? -Kraker2k (talk) 18:17, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

"They leave and dream about their wealthy future, but are hit by a car, which is being driven by Ennis, who chauffeurs Szilard to the secret society of old geezers." - Episode 4

...I think these episode descriptions need to be closely examined. 218.186.9.2 (talk) 02:36, 11 March 2008 (UTC) Kurin

English Voice Cast

i want to know the source for the 5/6 voice actors domn for Baccano! also, i just noticed Szilard is a friend of barney the purple dinosaur. silly alchemists —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ifsey (talk • contribs) 22:33, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Funimation's podcast. Doceirias (talk) 04:38, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Characters Section

i have included more informaton on several characters outside of the anime's timeline, specifically, the events of the Alice in jails novels and the Peter Pan in chains episode. May not be correct, so anyone who knows more about this, please do correct it. Have also added Ricard Russo and Christopher Shouldered into the minor characters section. Also, i have typed down the japanese name and pronunciation of each character, and have included surnames in some of the pre-existing character profiles. Please note that the C in the middle of Elmer C. Albatross' name is in fact written as an english C in the light novels. Erm... this is ifsey, btw, as i seem to have forgotten to log in :s 81.132.34.1 (talk) 16:58, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to TangentCube for correcting the macrons81.132.34.1 (talk) 19:13, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

What's your reasoning behind "Shouldered"? It doesn't resemble the Japanese pronunciation much...but then, neither does Jaccuzi. I would probably have gone with something more like Schaldred. Doceirias (talk) 20:16, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Sharudorēdo... I just don't like Schaldred. And anyways, the name's in circulation on the internet now, so it's stuck in my mind. Shouldered does kinda have a good ring to it. But it's not up to me to decide. Plus, like jaccuzzi, shouldered is an english (or at least part) word. I'm actually more concenered about Ricard Russo.81.132.34.1 (talk) 20:50, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

There's no real suggestion the name is supposed to be an English word. And if it was Shouldered, surely it would be Shorudorēdo? Ricard seems like the obvious choice to me. Doceirias (talk) 21:19, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, Ricard is fine, but i just prefer Shouldered. it might be anything, such as chauderéd or any combiantion of pronunciation. the japanese pronunciation does kinda sound french.:\81.132.34.1 (talk) 21:38, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I've just noticed... Shouldn't it be Richard Russo? 81.132.34.1 (talk) 22:50, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

No. That would be an entirely different set of katakana. Ricard/Ricardo is supposed to sound Italian. And I got to admit, I just think Shouldered sounds really stupid. Anything would be better. Doceirias (talk) 00:10, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

well, i noticed you rewrote the bios. nice job. So Placido is Ricard's Grandfather. Oh, and is Placido the right name? i do know that Shi = Si in katakana, but it's still a tad odd. Now, about the homonculus, i think there should be a separate section of Homonculi, or at least have all of the homonculi down. plus, as i'm learning japanese whilst reading the novels, there's not much i know about Huey's homonculi except their names. I'm not even sure which name is applied to which homonculi (Excluding Rail (Scarred girl, right?) and shikkuru (Blonde, fights Graham and Christopher in that brilliant illustration, yes?). So there. And could you recommend a way of learning to read the novel properly, not searching for the symbols i dont know into google translator and google translator being the lump of dung that it is, saying the caption for the Graham and Chris VS Shikkuru being 'I always said Ricardo was a lonely German (and the kanji for cell/residence which it doesn't know)'.Ifsey (talk) 01:02, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Placido seems right. I agree that the character's section need to be reorganized; it was initially just the anime characters, but as novel only characters get added, it might need something more faction based. I was wondering where that info was coming from, and why it seemed to skip the 1933 novels. If you're using Windows, you can easily add Japanese to the language bar in the settings - it has a tool that allows you to draw kanji you don't know with a mouse and then plug them into an online dictionary like [1]. That particular illustration says "Ricard talks to himself". Hitorigoto. Doceirias (talk) 01:37, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm currently on XP, but as soon as my laptop is fixed i will gain acces to the japanese language bar. Thank you so nuch for this. 'Ricardo talks to himself?'hmmm... Then i hope i am correct with this: in Peter pan in chains, the Ladd (Yay! best character) and Firo artwork, the main caption- i have translated it as 'the convicts/prisoners meet to talk' this is right, right? No, i will not be coming to you every time i need something checked, and for one thing i shouldn't be doing it here. then again, just this one would be helpful. thank you so much. i do know of you as probably the most knowledgable of baccano! who is qualified to translate japanese>english, and i believe we should start a petition to sign you as the head translator if Baccano! ever is given a chance to see western shores. Seriously. the one thing that FUNimation lack in their Baccano! production team was anyone who actually knew any background of Baccano!, because there are so many mispronunciations i have heard whenever there's a press release. come on. 'Ladd Rooso'? 'Firo Prosheeanez'? and even 'Maizer avro' I do hope this is confined only to the spaces of Tyler walker's cerebral funhouse.

Christ, i do go on for quite a bit, eigh?Ifsey (talk) 02:09, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Reception

Needs some reception ;P. Here's some stuff from a quick search (all on the anime so far):

• ANN:
  • Reviews: Boxset, DVD 1, DVD 2, DVD 3, DVD 4, Blu-Ray
  • Shelf Life: DVD 1, DVD 2, DVD 3, DVD 4, In General
  • ANNCast (In General): Sept. '09, Dec. '09
  • X Button (Video game column lol): Generally
  • Best and Most Notable of 2009
• Active Anime: DVD 1, DVD 2, DVD 3, DVD 4, Complete Series
• Anime World Order Podcast: Generally
• Mania.com: DVD 1, DVD 2, DVD 3, DVD 4, Complete Set Complete Set UK Complete BR
• ICv2: DVD 1
• Sequentialtart.com: DVD 3, DVD 4, The Tarties, Generally
• AICN: In general
• THEM Anime: In General
• OtakuUSA: Character Guide (May be useful, I dunno)
• DVDTalk: DVD 1, DVD 2, DVD 3, DVD 4, Complete Series
• Escapist Magazine: Generally
• Dengeki Novel Prize: Judges' comments

• ComicBookBin: Generally

~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 21:52, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Striking Firefox News as it is not a reliable source. —Farix (t | c) 14:38, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Removed it because it confuses me when I look real quick. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 00:23, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi. I've used some of the sources you listed to create a Reception section in the article. Regards, Jagged 85 (talk) 06:05, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Comments from Staff

Just realized that 13 episode descriptions from the official site have comments from the staff (in yellow). Noting that here. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 20:27, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Stashing a link here so I can find it later. Hulu announcement form Active Anime ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 23:29, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Stashing another link [2] ~Itzjustdrama does not equal a Drama Llama 19:52, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Episode list split

I thought it might be good to note here, but I'm currently writing a draft for a future episode split. Anyone who feels like it can take a look at my subpage. I'm rewriting all of the episode summaries, so it might take a while because I'm attending school atm. Any comment is appreciated here. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 00:21, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Other Splits

While I'm talking about splits. I'm also drafting a character list split (Found here) and a Claire Stanfield split (Draft located here). I think there can also be a Ladd Russo split, if it's worthwhile to note. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 22:05, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Pretty sure there can be a split to Isaac Dian and Miria Harvent. I'm sure there's isn't enough for an Isaac Dian and Miria Harvent separately, but maybe together.... Is there a guideline for this? I'm asking at the project. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 00:33, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not seeing a need for any individual character articles. The episodes and character list are good splits, but I personally like to see notability independent of the work before splitting an individual character. Otherwise it tends to end up becoming a fancruft depository, regardless of the creator's intentions. Doceirias (talk) 00:39, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Got a point. Going through it though, it looks like there's something for Claire and Ladd. Not actually too sure. But I'll finish the character list first and then the episode list. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 00:43, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry. I lied. I got a light novel list split draft done first. (It was so much easier to do.) It's ready to split at any time. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 01:07, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

That looks really good; more substantial than I'd expected. Only thing I'd point out is that the DVD extras aren't eight full novels, but two serialized stories. (Which I really hope get collected elsewhere someday...) Doceirias (talk) 01:53, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Fixed it. I'm going to split it in a moment. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 22:59, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Split episode list too. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 00:51, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

If you ignore the fact that it's completely unreferenced and that some more major secondary characters have yet to be sectioned out, the draft is pretty ready to be sectioned out. I just have to put together the header image from the promotional playing cards, and I'll move it. If you don't want some of the characters included in the header image, the following characters are on the cards. I've marked the ones I feel should be excluded with an *. I kinda prefer images drawn by Enami. But we could always use one of the the two images off the main site [3] ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 22:07, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

1. Claire
2. Jacuzzi
3. Czeslaw
4. Chick Jefferson (iffy)
5. Ladd
6. Maiza
7. Isaac
8. Gandor Brothers
9. Roy Maddock *
10. Firo
11. Chrisopher Shouldered *
12. Huey
13. Elmer (iffy)
14. Chane
15. Nice
16. Phil *
17. Maria Balsereit *
18. Lua
19. Rachel *
20. Miria
21. Eve
22. Edith *
23. Ennis
24. Adel *
25. Leeza Laforet *
26. Sylvie (iffy)

I currently have two versions of the compiled images: one I made before the draft with Claire, Jacuzzi, Czeslaw, Ladd, Maiza, Isaac, the Gandor, Firo, Chane, Nice, Lua, Miria, Eve and Ennis and another I just finished with everyone. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 00:07, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm very tempted to just split whatever I have to make it open to other editors. It's currently very incomplete and completely unreferenced, with the exception of most of the Japanese VA's and the production and reception sections. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 14:31, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to split what I have. However incomplete it may be. What I know is ridden with holes and referencing is extremely difficult for me. Hopefully, moving it to mainspace could help with that. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 19:56, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Split it. Referencing and information correction is appreciated from anyone who can do so. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 17:11, 23 July 2010 (UTC)