User talk:Ironholds

Requests for adminship and bureaucratship update

No current discussions. Recent RfAs, recent RfBs: (successful, unsuccessful)

Hi

As one of these who gave me a barnstar, maybe you might voice your opinion at [1] in case if there was actually a discussion. (I'm not asking for any kind of support, but for a neutral opinion, actually based on my edits.) Thanks. --Niemti (talk) 12:29, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Adventure: Request for feedback on Community Fellowship proposal

Hi! I'm contacting you because you have participated or discussed The Wikipedia Adventure learning tutorial/game idea. I think you should know about a current Community Fellowship proposal to create the game with some Wikimedia Foundation support. Your feedback on the proposal would be very much appreciated. I should note that the feedback is for the proposal, not the proposer, and even if the Fellowship goes forward it might be undertaken by presently not-mentioned editors. Thanks again for your consideration.

Proposal: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Fellowships/Project_Ideas/The_Wikipedia_Adventure

Cheers, User:Ocaasi 16:40, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Make redirect

Hello, could you undelete Minister of Power (India) and make it a redirect to Ministry of Power (India)? Thanks. Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:05, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Redirect created :). Ironholds (talk) 14:06, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Speedy Deletion of Outerloop Management

I wasn't finished with the article, that is why it may have appeared that way. However, the labels and marketers for bands that this company personally manages all have wikipedia pages. This company works very hard at getting these bands to where they are successfully. This was in no way created as a way to publicize or be "unambiguous advertising" of any kind; but to represent the management community that is unfamiliar to most individuals that may be interested. Historical data along with their current roster was to be added in much more detail today until this point to show the impact of their efforts in the managerial arena. If you have music labels and bands on here (which could also be considered "advertising"), this could be considered discimination against another company that plays a very needed role at keeping bands on the road; where true success is defined. I already have the script, so if I need to rewrite I will, as long as I can still use the page URL I created. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GMoneyWCAR (talk • contribs) 01:09, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Lemme get this straight. The article opens with sentences such as "The company's mission is to use extensive industry experience to guide clients to achieve personal and professional success. Based on open communication and long lasting partnerships, Outerloop Management establish a foundation with each client so they can prosper artistically and financially over the course of a prolonged and fulfilling career", and you're saying it wasn't intended as advertising or publicising? Despite the fact that you work with/for the company, according to your own userpage? And you weren't finished with it, you just hadn't touched it in five days?

For reference, it isn't discrimination. If you can show me another label's article that is as wonderfully promotional as this one I am happy to tag it as well. Ironholds (talk) 01:25, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

First off, that is information I quoted word for word directly from a site, URL: http://hollywoodwaste.com/apparel-roster/outerloop-management-clothing-labels/. I do not work for this company in any shape or form; I only support them in what they are doing and believe it should be recognized. The only "with" aspect at all is correcting wikipedia's for bands they manage that are mutual friends of mine. If you can guide me on what should be corrected instead of questioning my motives (which are not publicity based at all as I have nothing to gain from it) this would get finalized alot quicker. I used sourced site material to create this, not just a made up story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GMoneyWCAR (talk • contribs) 22:49, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Okay; quoting directly would be a copyright violation. You need to:

• Write it in your own words, but with citations to reliable sources that back up what you're saying, and;
• Avoid a biased/promotional tone in what you're writing.

  I would suggest you start writing in a "sandbox" - like User:GMoneyWCAR/Outerloop - where you can write without being at risk of deletion. I'm happy to provide any feedback on your work once you've put stuff down on paper, so to speak :). Ironholds (talk) 23:40, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Even if you source the material giving credit, it is considered copyright infringement? I'll go back and refine my work, however, will it be able to be posted back to the original page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by GMoneyWCAR (talk • contribs) 14:03, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

It is, yep. You can post on the original page, but as said, I would recommend a sandbox so you can work on it in peace :). Ironholds (talk) 19:20, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

I have placed an updated version in my sandbox. Would you be so kind to review it and let me know how it is? — Preceding unsigned comment added by GMoneyWCAR (talk • contribs) 22:53, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Hey! Sorry for taking so long to get back to this. So:

• "as a means for a seasoned tour manager to transition from a life on the road to a life at home. Since then the organization has evolved into a full team of talent management" kinda reads as an advertisement, and appears to be copied from this page; we can't have content copied by elsewhere, so it has to be rephrased both to be more neutral and to match that page less.
• Ditto "Together, both thought it would be advantageous if they partnered, combining Cohen's legal and business expertise with Mowery's extensive knowledge of the touring world.". I'll jump in and help. Ironholds (talk) 16:49, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

NPP

I see you have been doing some page patrolling. You may have noticed, as I have, that the actual quality of patrolling appears to have improved recently, although many patrollers still go for the low hanging fruit. Daily checks on the names of patrollers would seem to suggest that there are fewer minors and inexperience users on the task - perhaps this is due to my insignificant efforts to clean up the process. Possibly due to this however, there is now a long backlog again. My enthusiasm for improving NPP has not yet been completely daunted, and I am currently doing my best to recruit more patrollers of the required experience and maturity. This also means checking their talk pages that they are able to communicate in the right tone with the general public without using 'teen-talk'or other informal language. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:26, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Okay. I'm not sure what direct relevance this has to me :). I mean, yes, I've been doing a lot of patrolling, but you don't seem to be asking a question as such ;p. So, in order:

There is a very long backlog in New Pages Feed; however, don't trust the stats at the moment (they're borked. They will be fixed). In my experience patrolling from the back of the queue the reason that there are so many entries seems to be, quite simply, that we're counting redirects now. This has generated a lot of work and at some point we probably want to have a talk, as a community, about the granting (or not granting) of autopatrolled - we have set a high standard because of the potential for abuse, but this is going to limit its effectiveness now that redirects are being counted.

On the "minors" front; I'm very disappointed that you haven't taken the commentary in your Request for Adminship into account. User:Sonia, SoWhy, Aiken Drum and others raised the issue of your attitude towards younger editors; your defence was that you have no problem with editors of any age - the question is of maturity. You expect users to be adequately mature, and your standards set reflect that (for example, your RfA standards include the maturity of an adult, not the age of one). I think this is totally reasonable, and it's an opinion that I happen to share; administrators specifically and editors generally should act maturely. But when you say things like "Daily checks on the names of patrollers would seem to suggest that there are fewer minors and inexperience users on the task - perhaps this is due to my insignificant efforts to clean up the process" - or to paraphrase, "there are fewer minors patrolling and this is a good thing", you make it sound like it is about age. This may not be your intent, but I think from time to time we could all do with a check on the kind of language we use and the inferences others will draw from it :).

I don't agree that informal language is a bad thing - nor that we're dealing with the general public. On the first point, we're essentially a social network using the technical sense of the term: the thing that distinguishes us from places like Facebook is that those are social networks for the sake of social networking, while we are social networks for the sake of building an encyclopaedia of the world's knowledge. We're fellow volunteers, we're acquaintances, heck, we're comrades - and in many cases, we're friends. A degree of informality is not a bad thing. On the contrary, it can be a very good thing; Maryana, Steven and a whole host of editors A/B tested warning templates and found that more informal and friendly messages were much better at encouraging people to fix their mistakes (or leave, if they're engaging in bad-faith editing) than formal notices, which tend to just scare people off whatever their intentions. I'm really pleased to be able to use this research in formatting the CSD templates we'll be using with the curation toolbar - because informality can actually be a good thing. It shows humanity and empathy in a way that formal language tends not to.

On the general public front, mostly we're not dealing with the general public; we're dealing with people who want to edit Wikipedia (and if this was the general public, the entire Editor Engagement team would be out of a job!). Some of them are going to be bad-faith, and those we can kick out. Some of them are going to be goaded on by their employer wanting a page, and those we can monitor. But a lot of them have their heart in the right place and just need a bit of encouragement - encouragement that is much more effective with friendly and informal commentary than with harsh notices. Because ultimately, we're all volunteers - we don't have to be here if we don't want to. When someone mucks up, "don't do this" is going to be a lot less effective than "hey, this didn't come out quite right, but thanks for helping out! In future, how about doing this?", because the former offers someone an exit and the latter offers a way forward.

(apologies for the TL;DR). Ironholds (talk) 05:29, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Replying by email, I think it's better that way. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:32, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Uh, okay. I haven't received anything yet, but I'll keep hitting F5. Ironholds (talk) 06:34, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Madhyapara massacre

I've added some inline citations and one additional reference. Can you check and let me know? BengaliHindu (talk) 11:02, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm autopatrolled!

I feel so trusted!  :-) Thanks! Brianyoumans (talk) 15:20, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Hey, you've been writing great stuff :). Keep it up! Ironholds (talk) 15:49, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Ironholds. You have new messages at Anderson9990's talk page.
Message added 21:14, 5 August 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Kindly, Anderson - what's up? 21:14, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Please undo your user rights change

Hi. Please undo your user rights change to my account. Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:29, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

That was fast. Thanks again! :-) Just feels better this way, for now. We'll see what happens in the future. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:34, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Sure! Ironholds (talk) 23:11, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

A pressie for you!

This user is a Polynerd

Polynerdism is the function of being able to be significantly nerdy in a number of apparently-unrelated areas ;P Pesky (talk) 10:52, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Hee. Definitely me! Ironholds (talk) 17:26, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

When are you going to come down our way? I have unearthed the file full of original correspondence between CB and Kylsant, from when CB's book on it was being written ... Adding: there is also, of course, that 7ft-plus stack of original-source historical paperwork to scan ... Pesky (talk) 07:38, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

When I have free time :S. Next time I have a holiday? On it. I think forests and paperwork would do me good. Ironholds (talk) 14:39, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Make them pay you to come down here! ;P Forests, beaches and paperwork would certainly do you good. There is also the upcoming drift season (three months of free therapy, lol!), and a nice quiet pony you could probably sit on and trundle about the field on, if you so wished. Pesky (talk) 17:00, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Ooh! I'll see what I can do :). 216.38.130.162 (talk) 19:18, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Zong massacre (again)

Just realised that I forgot to say thanks for sending me the info on the Zong Massacre, so sorry about that. I've not had much time to work on the article yet, but the stuff you sent certainly looks like it could be useful! Celuici (talk) 15:03, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

No problem! Always happy to help :). Ironholds (talk) 18:33, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Cylindrospermum

You are very welcome; always nice to find a fellow lover of obscure microbes, or maybe you just like cute little stubs about the unknown.... Eau (talk) 02:58, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Not much love or knowledge of photosynthesizing bacteria, anywhere. I am used to this. New world rodents are interesting. Thank you for the offer of JSTOR access; I am an academic, so I am covered for JSTOR, but many people have a hard time accessing journals. Let me know if you need something more obscure. Eau (talk) 04:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK for job attitude

Greetings I was wondering if you can look over the nomination for Job attitude. This nomination was pending before the request for other articles. So I was wondering if you can glance it. All of the other admins in the page are OK with the article. They cant recommend it because they fixed stuff to it. All of the errors are fixed and there is no copyediting at all. The request for this article has already been posted on the WT:DYK however people are not taking action. My class is ending for the APS project and this being in the DYK can really help out alot of things on my campus. Khyati Gupta (talk) 01:34, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Done. Ironholds (talk) 08:27, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

For being awesome and helpful! :D Khyati Gupta (talk) 08:44, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

No problem :). Ironholds (talk) 08:45, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

I got two hooks in it. Is there one which needs to be selected? Khyati Gupta (talk) 08:48, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Horray! Thanks! If I could ever be any help, please inform me. Thank you. :D Khyati Gupta (talk) 08:53, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Hey! Thanks for believing in the article: Job attitude, its currently live! Khyati Gupta (talk) 08:16, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Great! Thanks for all your hard work :). Ironholds (talk) 16:06, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

In line citations

Hello Ironholds, thank you for your contributions to the page SurE, survival protein E. You have been very helpful. I wanted to ask a more advice on how to improve this article. I believe I have added inline citations but would like you to see if the citations meets wikipedia criteria as I am relatively new to all this. Many thanks Kfh123 (talk) 09:02, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

That looks absolutely perfect! Thanks so much for the tweaks :). Let me know if you want any feedback in the future, and welcome to Wikipedia! Ironholds (talk) 16:49, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

UTRS Account Request

I confirm that I have requested an account on the UTRS tool. Ironholds (talk)

Snooker

Thanks for finally stepping in there. As another note, "Feedback from my watched pages »" now appears at the top of my watchlist. I'd make this comment on your WMF account, but I'm too lazy. Thanks for both. Ryan Vesey 21:45, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Yep; see the AFT5 talkpage notice :). Ironholds (talk) 21:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks from me to both of you. Never seen so many reverts! Spc 21 (talk) 21:47, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

WP:LAME anyone? Ryan Vesey 21:49, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

You and your listing-staffers-on-lulz-pages ;p. Ironholds (talk) 22:00, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Autopatrolled editors

What would you think of giving WR227 the autopatrolled flag. He creates a large number of articles that fill up the NewPagesFeed. The only issue is he'd need to state that he'll include inline citations in his future articles since I've had to tag all of them with {{no footnotes}}. Ryan Vesey 19:06, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Why not wait until he's demonstrably done that, rather than promised to? Malleus Fatuorum 19:11, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

You're right, and on second thought, I gave the exact reason he shouldn't be autopatrolled in my comment. Someone should keep an eye out though, because if he starts including inline citations he should probably get the userright. On another note, I was given the flag, but I'm not sure that I particularly want it. I like getting at least one other person's eyes on all of my articles. I rarely create more than a few articles in a day so I don't feel like it would be a drain if I didn't have it. That being said, is there any way to not be autopatrolled, but still have all of my pages indexed if the noindexing unpatrolled pages gets reinstated? I'll keep the flag if that isn't possible. Ryan Vesey 19:38, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Most pages seem to be patrolled pretty quickly unless there's something a bit "unusual" about them, so I wouldn't see that as any kind of problem. FWIW I don't have the autopatrolled "right", and I wouldn't accept it even if it was offered. In fact I've asked for it to be removed in the past. Malleus Fatuorum 19:44, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I had some pages, like Barry Stuppler never get patrolled. For the longest time they weren't indexed by Google. Stuppler was even on the main page, but you still couldn't find it in a Google search. Ryan Vesey 19:45, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• I'll let him know about the footnotes, but I'm not going to do anything until he starts adding them :). Still, let me know if you find any other good candidates! Ironholds (talk) 20:46, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Patrolled pages

I notice that the new pages I create in the Cyanobacteria stay unpatrolled for what seems to be a long time, compared to other pages. Does this matter? I am starting with well-known clades and intend to move onto the obscure. Will these simply remain unpatrolled? Does it matter if they are not patrolled? I do make a lot of little errors, so patrolling by another user is useful, you know. Eau (talk) 20:50, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

For a while, unpatrolled pages were not indexed by google. I found an error in that and it was temporarily halted. You've got 9 unpatrolled articles. I'll try to get around to them in the next few days. Ryan Vesey 20:52, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Nine? I think the plant editors look at the plant articles quickly, but I do appreciate your looking at the Cyanobacteria articles. Thanks. Eau (talk) 21:02, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

In the meantime, I've granted you the "autopatrolled" user right; this certifies you're considered someone who can be trusted to write fantastic articles. Your articles will now be automatically reviewed :). Ironholds (talk) 21:13, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Oh, thanks. It is still useful to have a second person check a new article, though, you know. It would be nice to have more editors who are capable of creating, editing, and monitoring bacteria, protist and algae articles. I have found many copypastes, bad taxonomies, missing organisms. Eau (talk) 21:22, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Totally agreed, on both points; it's a difficult problem. But if you know anyone in the real world who might be able to contribute with some expertise, you could always ask them to get involved - many hands make light work! Ironholds (talk) 21:24, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not an inviting place for experts, unfortunately, otherwise I would encourage my colleagues to help out. Eau (talk) 21:29, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

A perpetual problem :(. In my other capacity I'm working on making things easier for people, but it's slow going. Ironholds (talk) 21:31, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

A very uninviting place for experts. It seems that a majority of editors attempt to drive out the experts as soon as they appear rather than explain the importance of using our existing policies regardless of their credentials. Since you are interested in those topics, you might want to help out at Category:Stub-Class Microbiology articles and Category:Microbiology articles needing attention. We also have a large list of articles needing expert attention. Perhaps your colleagues would be willing to review those articles and draft up a series of suggestions that could be placed on the talk pages. Then the community could review them. Ryan Vesey 21:32, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

It's an uninviting place for everyone. Malleus Fatuorum 21:34, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I have already tried making talk page suggestions. In the future, I will edit, and it can be reverted.

Malleus, indeed, it appears to be extremely uninviting for members of the human race, yet I was only talking about whether or not I could invite phycologist colleagues to contribute to articles. Eau (talk) 21:53, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Ryan, I have plenty to do, although the category shows some plant stubs, at least one, in the microbiology articles. The experts required is so randomly filled with things outside of my area, that it would not be useful to search through it for algae and microbe articles. Eau (talk) 21:57, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I was briefly a psychologist myself, so I can say with absolute confidence that the overwhelming majority of Wikipedia's psychology articles are piles of ordure, so there would be plenty of work for your colleagues to get stuck into. They'd probably need to be warned that pretty thick skins are required though unfortunately. Malleus Fatuorum 22:00, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

"Phycology," the study of algae, weird, photosynthetic things that no one has ever heard of, not "psychology." I could not, in good faith, after my experience at Wikipedia, suggest to anyone else that they edit. Eau (talk) 22:05, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Duh! I misread, sorry. Malleus Fatuorum 22:08, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

No problem, always gives me a laugh, unless I'm trying to do a google search (avoid them, usually). Eau (talk) 22:22, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Autopatrolled

What would you think of making User:RioHondo autopatrolled. He's created 53 articles and 471 articles and redirects. Ryan Vesey 16:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I'd probably reject it; things like Mount Data being almost completely unreferenced stay my hand :(. Ironholds (talk) 17:37, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Are you on commission Ryan? Malleus Fatuorum 17:43, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Yup, I'm paying him to bring em to me ;p. All his money to go into my pension fund and all the free food he can steal from restaurants. Ironholds (talk) 17:46, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

(which is good because, to my knowledge, I do not have a pension fund). Ironholds (talk) 17:46, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/2012 Indian Premier League spot fixing case

Hey. This nomination needs approval after proposing over 7 alternatives for the hook. Please check it out when you have a chance. Thanks in advance. Khyati Gupta (talk) 04:59, 18 August 2012 (UTC)