Talk:1st Cavalry Division (United States)

The description of the First Cavalry Division in the Korean War says nothing about the importance of its actions in that War. The conquest of Pyongyang and the Korean War decisive battle of Chipyong Ni are entirely ignored. On the other hand, a great deal of information is given about the less important Vietnam War. Moreover, the famous battles of the Fifth Cavalry in the Civil War and the Fifth (With Buffalo Bill) and the Seventh in the Indian Wars are passed over. Truly its regiments are among the most famous and honored in the United States Army.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.114.255.90 (talk • contribs) 06:35, 23 November 2004.

The achievements of the Regiments are most properly covered on their own pages Mikeofv (talk) 12:42, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Korea--what a travesty that it only gets a couple lines. I'll add to it although maybe someone else can arrange the headers since I don't know how. P1340 17:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)P1340

Thanks for bringing up this deficiency. Please feel free to add to the article with your knowledge. All Wikipedia articles are "works in progress", some far more so than others. ;-} -Rholton 17:08, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Concision

Pretend you're new to the concept of the 1st Cavalry. "Huh, cavalry? In the 21st century? Do they still ride horses into battle?" Now read through the article and try to extract that information. Your eyes will cross.

Evidently they did something different in World War II, and then flew helicopters in Vietnam, and then were "heavy armor" in later wars.

1st CAV was horse cavalry 1921-1941, infantry in WW2 & Korea, infantry with helicopters added for mobility in Vietnam, then became an Armored Division Mikeofv (talk) 12:42, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

lineage of the First Cav Div

I know that the phrase about the 1855 date is found in the official history, but it is technically accurate only because the Cavalr Brigades were subsumed into the division. The Regiments retain their own history, and the two sets of time lines are technically separate. 20:55, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

The four Brigades in the 1st CD have a much longer history than the Division. Indeed, they were the senior organizations before the introduction of permanent Divisions around the time of World War I.. SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) 21:40, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

US Army cavalry brigades once were sequentially numbered (e.g., 1st and 2nd with the 1st CD, 3rd and 4th with the 2nd CD, and so on) and coincidentally, upon re-introduction of brigades, two of the present four brigades have the same numbers (1 and 2), but I see no lineage or connection with the earlier brigades. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.126.6.155 (talk) 20:08, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

The Cavalry Brigades were assigned as part of the 15th Cavalry Division which was inactivated and assets used to form the 1st Cavalry Division. 1st and 2nd Brigades maintained the same regiments under 15th & 1st Cavalry Divisions. The 3rd Cavalry Brigade was composed of the 9th & 10th Cavalry regiments and became part of the 2d Cavalry Division after inactivation of the 15th and didn't join the Division until the ROAD program in the 1960's Mikeofv (talk) 12:42, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

While I can appriciate the lineage of the Division as opposed to the regiment, the 1st US Cavalry was not so designated "Cavalry" until 1855 by act of congress. In 1833 they along with the later 2nd US Cavalry were designated as US Dragoons. A role much similar today as mechanized infantry.

During the American Civil War however two companies continued to be assigned to the New Mexico territory until late 1862-1863. The remainder of the regiment which was battalion strength was brigaded up in the US Army of the Potomac and during the 1863 Gettysburg Campaign saw action in the East Cavalry Field engagement of July 3rd 1863. (Before Gettysburg the Regiment saw some noted commanders including Gen. Alfred Pleasanton).

The Regiment saw much of the war in the Eastern Theater from that point on. Including the Battle of Cedar Creek near Middleton Virginia where the regiment was in reserve under Col. Chas. Lowells brigade in Gen Wesley Merritts division. If anything I think a distiction needs to be made between the history of the division as opposed to the regiment. From what I gather there are actually companies in the US army whcih were origanally part of the 1st Regiment, while the 1st Division holds at least three brigades with no less than three or four regiments each. (Like the 7th Cav. Garryowen, Col Custers command of regular cavalry of 1876 Battle of Little Big Horn fame.

While I do believe that the history of the division starts with the 1st regiment, a distinction should be made as to when the 1st went from Regimental to Divisional strength. As ever I am respectfully sarge.

Society of the Military Horse 35th Battalion Virginia Cavalry "The Commanches" by: John Divine History of the United States Cavalry by: Albert G. Brackett They Followed the Plume: By Robert Trout —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.66.16.116 (talk) 10:12, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Not sure what you're getting at here; the 1st Cavalry Regiment and the 1st Cavalry Division were always two totally different things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.126.6.155 (talk) 20:17, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Merge tags

I added merge tags to the various brigade articles. If you read the articles, there is really not much there. "XX Brigade went to NTC" - no kidding, most every unit does. "XX brigade was on DRB in 1999" - once again, wow, what insight. "So-and-so brigade spent the early years training hard" - yup. Or my favorite - "In October 1999, the brigade returned to Ft Hood. Black Jack Brigade was called upon once again to be America's Vanguard as it maintained 7 month's of DRB status for the 1st Cavalry Division." (exact quote). America's Vanguard? OMG, the army must have wrote this. Really, once you strip away the non-notable "every unit in the army does it" stuff, the campaign/battle info already in the main article, and the borderline jingoistic language, you don't have much. These can all be a paragraph in the main article. Nobunaga24 00:13, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Agree totally with Cyane. I'm doing some mergers now but I really don't know enough about the military to do these. Can one of you? If not, I'll just have to do some pretty gratuitous cut and paste and add some redirects and hope later people edit the sections, still, would be better than it is now.Avraham 22:18, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

• I'm slowly getting around to doing it, but it's kind of low on my list right now. The 1st Cav spent I believe 5 years in Vietnam. Vietnam gets 2 sentences in the 1st Brigade article, and meanwhile the Iraq War had half the article. It was detailing the raid on one house. Lots of work here... --Nobunaga24 00:23, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Cav Motto?

"Motto Move in on em and kill em {em=Them}" I have never heard this motto. Is it historical? Made up? Searched for confirmation but couldn't find it. --Basherrr 11:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I remember two "unflattering" mottos from my Army days. "The pitter patter of little feet, First Cav's in full retreat" and "The horse that never was, the color they were, and the line that couldn't be crossed". I don't know for sure, but I recollect they both had to do with a battle in Vietnam. wbfergus 19:14, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, just did a little searching on Google. "The pitter patter of little feet" actually goes back to the Korean War, from a tune called "The Bug-Out Ballad". wbfergus 19:35, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

So I found a reference for that motto, but unsure what to make of the page. http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/lineage/cc/001cd.htm --Basherrr 11:43, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

This probably stemmed from the 7th Cavalry's initial performance in the beginning of the war; for example, 2/7 were mistakenly attacked at night by a few American light tanks, and they bugged out, abandoning all kinds of weapons, equipment, etc. Also, the 7th Cav's commander, COL Nist, was fired, if I recall correctly. Anyway the poor performance of the 7th Cavalry in July 1950 was far worse than the 8th Cav's at Unsan.

It likely was a great number of things that gave rise to that little rhyme. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.121.86.167 (talk) 06:09, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

World War II to 1950

In the middle is a chart - unit, staged, depart, arrived. What year was this? Reading on I concluded it was 1943 but that should be stated clearly. The word "depart" probably should be "departed". Can someone reformat that chart so things line up? I don't know wiki markup nearly well enough. Sbowers3 12:06, 31 August 2007 (UTC) Is this better now? Mikeofv (talk) 09:53, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Korean War Revisionism?

The 1st Cavalry Division had an overall poor performance in Korea, at least during the first half of their time there. This stemmed from the general unpreparedness of Eighth Army as well as the fact that 750 key noncoms were pulled from the unit and sent to units already fighting in Korea, and replaced at the last minute with new people often unqualified or without any training or experience. Aside from those transfers, before "The Cav" even deployed to Korea they were handicapped by substandard training and frequent personnel transfers. The division did not generally acquit itself well in the beginning of the war, but this is not only limited to the Unsan battle (although the 3/7 Cavalry was an outstanding unit, but it was a "reflagged" unit from the states, and not a part of the original division in Japan).

It's illuminating also, to read the Chinese appraisal of the 8th Cavalry at Unsan...it's not very flattering. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.105.29.181 (talk) 05:38, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

1920s and 1930s - inconsistent chronology

The chronology in 1920s and 1930s is inconsistent, and probably incorrect.

1. 4 April 1921 - established TOE, authorized square division
2. 20 August 1921 - constituted 1st cav div
3. 31 August 1920 - authorized establishment of 1st cav div - should this be 1921?
4. September 1920 - 1st cav div went active - should this be 1921?
5. 31 August 1920 - HQ 2nd cav brig reactivated - should this be 1921?
6. 31 August 1920 - 1st cav brig reactivated - should this be 1921?
7. 20 August 1921 - 1st cav reg transferred to 1st cav div
8. 13 September 1921 - other regs transferred

It appears that the 1920 dates should be 1921. Sbowers3 15:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Casualties during the Vietnam War

Wasn't the 1st Cavalry Division the US Army unit that received the heaviest casualties during the whole war? On the American side i mean.-189.34.174.226 (talk) 21:01, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Gulf War

The unit that attacked into Iraq prior to the ground war during Desert Storm was the 2nd "Black Jack" Brigade. The two Task Forces that conducted the attacks were Task Force 1-5 Cavalry "Black Knights" and Task Force 1-8 Cavalry "Mustangs". I was a member of the Task Force 1-8 Cavalry's battalion staff. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.149.1.36 (talk) 17:04, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

That section needs some work. I'll put it on my list. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 19:24, 19 January 2010 (UTC) (1/5 Cav)

Dead link

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

• http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Cav/01st%20Cavalry%20Division.htm/
  • In 1st Cavalry Division (United States) on 2011-05-25 06:51:56, 404 Not Found
  • In 1st Cavalry Division (United States) on 2011-06-10 03:37:56, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 03:38, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

• • Fixed, new link is http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Heraldry/ArmyDUISSICOA/ArmyHeraldryUnit.aspx?u=3108 Mikeofv (talk) 11:57, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Question the dates cited for the transformation from horse cavalry to infantry

I question the statement that the First Cavalry Division disposed of its horses and became solely infantry early (February) in 1943. As an army draftee, I was transported in April '43 from Lynn, Mass. to the Cavalry Training and Replacement Center in Fort Riley Kansas. After about one month of basic training I began training as a cavalry trooper, using live horses. Training on horseback took one-half of the day, the other half taken up by radio operator training. About half-way thru this phase (which my fading 87-yr old memory says was at about six weeks) our troop received "new" remounts, which we continued to ride until the horse-borne training cycle ended. The ending of that phase was marked by at least one horse-borne parade, passing in review before the commanding general (one-star). I recall the fun of passing in review at a slow-trot, accompanied by the post band playing "Pop Goes The Weasel". After a subsequent exercise, in which I was the radio operator in the C.O.'s Scout Car (admittedly no horses in sight), I "graduated" to an assignment in the First Cav. Division, which was about to be shipped from Washington State (scuttlebutt said, along with its horses) to the Pacific Theater. An unrelated reassignment sent me elsewhere, but I left convinced that I had been trained for service in the Horse Cavalry. I was surprised to read otherwise in your article 76.100.67.141 (talk) 18:34, 7 November 2011 (UTC) John R. (Jack) Harney, New Carrollton, MD.

Inaccurate WWII Structure Charts

The WWII charts showing the different structural changes has got the "weapons troop" components on the 1944-45 chart, when they should be on the 1942 chart and disappearing from the 44-45 chart.