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September 11

Refunds from health insurance companies

A few weeks ago, some health insurance companies were supposed to send refund checks to their customers. Is there a list of the companies that were supposed to do that? Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 01:35, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify, in the US, "Obamacare" included a provision that health insurance companies must spend a certain percentage of their premiums on actual medical care (health insurance companies spending money on health care ? what a novel idea !). Those who failed to do so must refund a portion of those premiums, until they reach that goal. StuRat (talk) 02:16, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a list of insurance companies and how much each must refund: [1]. However, note that the refunds don't have to be mailed out as checks. Instead, they can be applied to current or future premiums. StuRat (talk) 19:14, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that is very helpful. Our current heath insurance is not listed, but one we had a few years ago is. But they probably didn't make it retroactive back to then. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 19:28, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. It's an interesting concept, that insurance companies must be forced to spend 80% of their income on health care, versus administrative and advertising costs.

I've noticed that you can get a company that goes all out on ads and thus their product becomes far more expensive. One example in the US seems to be Clorox bleach. It used to cost about the same as any other brand. Then they started advertising it. Next they reduced their gallon container to a smaller size, and upped the price. Now they seem to be playing the concentration game (first double the concentration and cut the size in half, then, when nobody is looking, reduce the concentration back down to the original, while leaving the bottle half-sized). It now costs something like 3X as much as other bleach, but, apparently, when people see it in ads they think it must be somehow better than the others.

This is fine for bleach, since nobody is going to die from paying 3X as much for bleach. But, in the case of health insurance, skyrocketing costs due to them all advertising to try to poach each other's customers could, indeed, lead to people dying, if none stick with the low-cost, no advertising model.

In any case, can I now mark this Q resolved ? StuRat (talk) 19:42, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

Yes, thanks. And the FAQ there said it went into effect Jan. 2011 (IIRC), so our old ins company is off the hook, as far as we are concerned. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 02:47, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

@ StuRat, enjoyed your commentary. Marketdiamond (talk) 08:25, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks ! StuRat (talk) 08:30, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Additional unit assigned to DaNang AB Vietnam

Hi during the period from at least 1967 (possibly earlier) and after Feb 1969 there was a unit on the base designated Air Force Office of Special Investigations Detachment 5003. I was in that unit from 68 to 69. It was not included in the known units assigned there. Thankks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.143.9.33 (talk) 03:59, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not included where? At the top of the article that disappoints you, click "Talk" and raise the issue there. —Tamfang (talk) 06:59, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably Da Nang Air Base#Other known units. Alternatively, you could just edit the article itself and add your unit to the list. --Viennese Waltz 07:31, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And here is supporting reference that you could use, although there are no other in-line references in the whole article. Alansplodge (talk) 22:35, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Font on cover of Ploughshares

What is it? Or, at least, the font in this image. 67.164.156.42 (talk) 07:01, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I tried it at http://www.whatfontis.com/ and got Baker Signet. There are a few similar fonts, so try it yourself to see what result you find best. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 09:26, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Identifont says Baker Signet is the most likely one as well. The 'P' and 'g' in particular are distinctive and look like perfect matches. None of the other fonts it suggests seem to match. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 12:22, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You could use the Ploughshares comment form to ask: http://www.pshares.org/about/contact.cfm --Dreamahighway2000 (talk) 22:42, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Work made for school"?

Is a work created by a student as part of an assignment generally considered a "work for hire"? 68.173.113.106 (talk) 20:45, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"work for hire" here being a reference to... Copyright law? Tax? Or something else we might be able to assist you with? - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 20:53, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm referring to copyright law. If I create a paper for school, does the school (or worse, the Board of Education) own the copyright? 68.173.113.106 (talk) 21:06, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This depends entirely on your particular situation. My school had no explicit policy, but work submitted for external examination was provided alongside a license which granted the exam board pretty extesive rights. My university took limited license where necessary e.g. to allow internal publication of undergraduate dissertations, but was otherwise fairly supportive of students and staff retaining their own IP. I believe at least some universities claim ownership entirely. 92.236.250.154 (talk) 21:16, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The NYC school system doesn't have a policy for this as far as I know. 68.173.113.106 (talk) 21:23, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Need I mention this appears to be a very direct question about how legal facts apply to a specific situation, a.k.a. legal advice, which we cannot answer. I can point you though towards our article on the subject. Work for hire lists the specific requirements in the copyright act. Shadowjams (talk) 22:46, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Attending school is not a form of employment. Unless you've signed something that says that what you produce in school belongs to the school, or that you've granted them some sort of rights, there's no reason to assume your copyright would be assigned to the school a priori. (Usually this sort of thing is explained quite explicitly as part of employment contracts. I've signed away my copyrights, patent rights, and other rights numerous times over the years in the name of paying the rent...) --Mr.98 (talk) 01:56, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The situation may be different in the UK in higher education. Only your academic institution can answer your question. --TammyMoet (talk) 08:54, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is common for UK universities to claim quite extensive rights to student's work. You can see the rules from my old uni here. It's not clear from your question where you are or what kind of school you mean, so there is no way for us to know the answer in your particular case. --Tango (talk) 11:12, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am talking about a public high school in New York City (Stuyvesant). 68.173.113.106 (talk) 20:31, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ebay selling

so, a little while ago, I went to sell something on ebay, but decided against it part way through and stopped, leaving a nearly complete ad all organised and written out. I have since decided to try selling it now, but it seems they have deleted what I had done before, is there any way of getting it back and finishing it off, rather than having to start all over again?

79.66.102.171 (talk) 23:27, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Did you contact someone at eBay about this? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:56, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

you mean you can actually do that? Kitutal (talk) 09:45, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sure you can. I had a problem with a DVD box set that I was selling, which was reported as being a bootleg. It wasn't, it was a pressing issued by an obscure label. I had a long email conversation with a real person and eventually they accepted the DVDs were legit and reposted it. --TrogWoolley (talk) 12:40, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

libya

Why did the US support Islamist terrorist "rebels" in libya and syria with known al quida affiliations? Arent we taught to learn from history so we dont make the same mistakes again? Are own leaders cant even do it. Now stuff like this is happening http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19562692 --74.74.255.141 (talk) 23:48, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Some points:

1) Only a small portion of the rebels in Libya and Syria appear to have an al Qaeda affiliation.

2) The US is so far refusing to arm the Syrian rebels, for fear that they will use those weapons against the US or allies (especially anti-aircraft surface-to-air missiles).

3) The US is providing humanitarian aid and communication equipment to the Syrian rebels.

4) The current Syrian government supports US designated terrorist organizations, like Hezbollah and Hamas, either directly or by funneling weapons and money to them from Iran. They have also been directly implicated in terrorist activity inside Lebanon, including a car bomb that killed a major anti-Syrian politician, and a recent foiled attempt at multiple bombings.

5) Consider that the US wants to be seen as on the rebel's side, in case they win.

So, so far the US has decided to give weak support for the Syrian rebels, although Obama hinted that, if Syria breaks out the chemical weapons, then "the gloves will come off". StuRat (talk) 00:00, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

yes, but why did they support AND arm the rebels in libya? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wrk678 (talk • contribs) 00:26, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know that the US armed the Libyan rebels. What they did do was provide air support (along with NATO). Kaddafi was a nut job implicated in the terrorist bombing of a jet over Lockerbie, Scotland and the earlier German night club bombing. However, the West had largely made peace with him by the time the Arab Spring took hold. Still, when given the choice, the US chose the rebels over him, perhaps to prevent a massacre, perhaps to get rid of a long-time enemy. StuRat (talk) 01:10, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the main reason that the U.S. helped the Libyan rebels was to prevent a large massacre, including of civilians, and to keep the momentum of the Arab Spring going since it felt that seeing the Arab Spring stop while a lot of resentment against the Arab dictators stayed could have led to weaker support for the U.S. among people in the Arab world if the U.S. continued supporting those dictators, which would have meant more problematic relationships with the Arab world once these dictatorships would have gotten overthrown eventually. Futurist110 (talk) 02:41, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

One man's terrorists is another man's freedom fighter. In this case they are/were freedom fighters to the US, a few years ago the some of the very same people were considered terrorists, the CIA delivered them to Gaddafi. Count Iblis (talk) 00:34, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think that it were only the al-Qaeda ones who were delivered to Gaddafi by the CIA. Futurist110 (talk) 02:41, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Though I disagree with the Libyan policy the last few years "entangling foreign alliances" and all, to be completely fair from what I have read the majority of arab terrorist groups members seem to have been preyed upon with the promise of money, food, supplies, status and to the extent they somehow agree ideologically to what is basically a serf or employee relationship it is mainly about how that ideology translates to the local village or province. For other reasons I disagree with any assistance directly, indirectly or that could be acquired by them, but on the ground and especially in klannish areas or warlord run regions sometimes my enemy is the enemy of my other enemy and for the limited purposes of the ends they are an ok means. It is some of what Washington and Jefferson warned us about. Marketdiamond (talk) 08:21, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting, but off topic, discussion.

Aren't those alliances "entangling" ? In any case, the world we live in now, and the US's place in it are radically different. If the US withdrew from NATO, the UN, etc., and sent all their troops home, the world would go to hell in short order. North Korea would invade South Korea, Iran might invade Iraq, Pakistan would install the Taliban in Afghanistan again, and everybody would race to get nukes.

As far as US embassies go, I don't know why all US embassies, consulates, etc., in Muslim nations aren't built like bunkers. Just how many have been attacked, anyway ? I can think of half dozen right offhand. We might want to consider doing that in every nation, but let's start where the obvious threat is. They can start by stacking up sandbags on all the walls right now. StuRat (talk) 08:42, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

StuRat, excellent observation, that was my point. As far as your theory that the "world would go to hell in short order" I don't buy that NK could invade anyone (now NK and China could), the Iran and Iraq thing isn't Iraq already taking our aid and giving it to Iran, what's the difference after that? Pakistan installing the Taliban in Afganistan? I find it hard to imagine political support for increasing forces in Afganistan and then for anything other then a few months. 25 years from now Afganistan will have a Taliban established government and they will be buying McDonald franchises much like those in Ho Chi Minh city are in 2012. The everyone rushing to get nukes bit is a bit far fetched, some madmen dictators might build up a few inventories but nothing more, the problem with nukes is they are only valuable to you unused.

The biggest question for me though is how do you handle Korea, China, Afganistan, Iraq/Iran potentially Venezuela, the coming Cuban and European instability and a myriad of other threats when its not that your broke but that you owe $17, $18 . . . $20 trillion. It is a question that was asked last year by a Congressman from Pittsburgh on the national stage, one who is a vet, an M.D. and a student of economic theory. I still haven't heard anyone answer that question. I do however agree completely with you on the embassies as bunkers. Marketdiamond (talk) 09:51, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

NK has a formidable military, not even counting their nukes. SK has little to defend themselves with. Everyone would rush to get nukes to defend themselves: Taiwan, because it would fear a Chinese invasion, Japan, because it fears NK and China, all the Gulf States, because they fear Iran, etc. Without the "world's policeman" everybody needs a gun. At one time, I had hopes of the EU taking over this role, but they seem to be in bad shape financially, and unwilling to step up, in any case. As for the US national debt, I see default on the horizon. As with individual and corporate bankruptcies, it might be a good thing in the long run, if the US is then forced to live within it's means, since nobody will loan it money any more. StuRat (talk) 10:13, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

StuRat this would have very personal impacts on us all then. You seem to agree that the U.S. will eventually default and that the U.S. needs to keep being as you put it the world policeman. I find it hard to see both occurring, which brings me back to the Congressman's point if we can't choose both lets at least choose to make things safe in Arkansas and California and Iowa, as a Vietnam vet (him not me) all it really took for Indochina to work out its issues was 10-15 years, not every government nor faction out there is interested in endless ever escalating wars especially when the abstract foreign bogeyman isn't around to vent on anymore and its down to your family and your neighbors family suffering for the next decade, having to pay the price. Iraq is already Irans puppet, Afganistan is already becoming Pakistans puppet, I don't see the U.S. electorate saying strongly yes 10 more years and $2 trillion more for that patch of land on the other side of the globe, though I do see lots of Charlies grandchildren eating at McDonalds in Ho Chi Minh city. If we had 16-20 trillion to blow I wouldn't mind as much but we have bridges collapsing in Minneapolis and a soon to be $17 trillion bill waiting for us.Marketdiamond (talk) 10:30, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The US could come out from bankruptcy much stronger, just as GM did. There certainly are nations that we don't need to worry about much, like Vietnam. I don't see Cuba as a threat, nor Venezuela. But there are others we very much need to worry about, like NK and Iran. StuRat (talk) 10:36, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nukes are extremely important to control or influence but Iran could change next year (a sizable portion of the Iranians are starting to become like the Vietnamese), add to that the fact that NK is really just a military proxy of China (China has threated to turn off the gas lines and NK reacts like a Pavlovian dog). Over the last 100 years instability and political strife like what Cuba and Venezuela will face when Raul and Chavez pass (you could also include the instability in Mexico in this) has created much more hardship for average Americans than anything nuclear. But again I wouldn't want to entangle just focus on borders.

Also GM did go through bankruptcy? LoL Because I do have some GMAC bonds I was gonna use for wallpaper, but since the bond holders are the first to be paid in any bankruptcy I might reconsider lol. What GM went through was a bailout, its basically taxpayer owned (majority shareholder) or a better word is subsidized. In short GM will be one of the biggest reasons the U.S. defaults when that day comes :-(. Marketdiamond (talk) 10:48, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The US owns a 25% stake in GM, which at worse could mean a loss of maybe $25 billion dollars if all of that became worthless. Even if that went belly up, that's not enough of a loss to make the US default in any way. It's a drop in the bucket of the US GDP and/or total US public debt, whatever you consider more important. It is considerably less than the F-22 Raptor cost to develop, just as a point of comparison. Whether you think it was a good expenditure or not (compared to, say, the F-22 program) is certainly a matter reasonable people could disagree about, but I don't see it as a major threat to the US to have done such a thing. --Mr.98 (talk) 15:08, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bankruptcy isn't a single thing, but rather a range. In GMs case, they used bankruptcy law to reorganize, provide temporary protection from creditors, break many of their contracts, close down or sell unprofitable portions, etc. This, along with the loan from the US government, in exchange for a portion of the company, allowed them to recover nicely. As Mr. 98 says, the risk to taxpayers is minimal. Indeed, the plan is to repay 100% of the loans (have they done so already ?), so that, most likely, there will be no cost to the taxpayers at all.

And I have sympathy for GM and Chrysler, who got into financial trouble due to generous benefits to blue-collar workers and widening competition in a world of global trade. Wall street, on the other hand, got into trouble due to taking wild risks, and seems to have bought off so many politicians that they are allowed to continue to do so. This, combined with their extreme benefits for apparently incompetent executives, at taxpayer expense, makes me quite angry at them. I suggest they be broken up into companies small enough to be allowed to fail, and that we never bail them out again. StuRat (talk) 21:02, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think the basis for supporting the rebels is pretty simple - as a rule, democracies don't go to war with each other. (I think there's a name for that rule, anyone...?) The idea is that if you get rid of the dictators, you get rid of the violent armed resistance to the dictators, you get rid of Al Qaida, you get rid of these crazy incidents. Al Qaida's attacks started with the despotism of Saudi Arabia. Wnt (talk) 04:31, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is often claimed that "no two democracies have ever gone to war with each other," but the problem with that is that it often reduces to the No true Scotsman fallacy: defining a "true" democracy is tricky to do, and any historical examples of democracies at war with each other can be dismissed by claiming that one or the other was not a "true" democracy. For example, the Spanish-American war was fought between Spain, which was a constitutional monarchy at the time, and the U.S., which is usually considered a fairly democratic republic. But then one could claim that the Spanish constitutional monarchy was heavily tilted towards vesting the Monarch with wide sweeping powers, and that Spain didn't have the sort of civil freedoms one expects of a democracy, etc. etc. We know what principles are defined as being democratic principles, but when you get down to drawing a line in the sand, it is hard to put countries strictly on one side or the other. --Jayron32 04:47, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, major problem of Rudolph Rummel's Democratic peace theory.John Z (talk) 07:42, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! That was the name of it... and a nice long thorough-looking article. Wnt (talk) 22:27, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

September 12

should a 5 yr old be allowed/able to play outside by themselves?

The Reference Desk does not answer requests for opinions.

Is is ok for a mom to stay inside the house while her 5 yr old is outside (out of her view)playing? I know someone who does this and normally the child stays close by, but recently that 5 yr old keeps wondering off farther and farther. So I guess my question is a two part one. 1) should this mom continue to allow her child to play outside unsupervised? 2) and if she does, how to teach that child to stay nearby and not wonder off? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.11.247.156 (talk) 14:22, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, we can't answer this question because it is a request for opinion, but if the original poster is interested in researching the subject themselves "unsupervised play" is a good phrase to search for. You'll find a lot of people arguing about it without really getting anywhere in discussion groups, but it also comes up in magazines, books and scholarly publications. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 19:46, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note that it's "wandering off", not "wondering off". StuRat (talk) 20:48, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

...and it obviously varies hugely between cultures, countries, and the degree of shared trust and responsibilty that exists within the neighbourhood. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:51, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

September 13

Flag of la Francophonie

Why are there five colors? Do the specific colors they chose mean anything? --168.7.237.221 (talk) 06:29, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting, looking at it seems like the Olympic Flag if all the circles combined which made me think seeing as they have members on 5 continents it may be representing that. I did find this to confirm this deduction [2]. Marketdiamond (talk) 08:21, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This page has a reasonable sounding explanation: "The circular form of the flag of La Francophonie conveys the idea of coming together. The five interconnected segments represent the idea of cooperation across the five continents where the members of La Francophonie are located. The five colours represent the various colours found on the flags of the participating countries and governments." (That is, similar to the Olympic rings, the colours are chosen because each nation or body represented by the organisation will find at least one of the colours on its flag depicted in the Francophonie logo.) - Cucumber Mike (talk) 11:17, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Finance Company withdrawing money from people's Bank Accounts without their knowledge - allegedly.

Close entirely unreferenced (except for one link to unreliable and unnotable blog) question which violates WP:SOAPBOX, discusses how to commit a criminal act, potentially defames and attacks third parties, and offers de facto legal advice. Please see talk

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Last night, I watched a TV programme - in the UK - called Watchdog. It's a regular programme hosted by Ann Robinson that alerts viewers to commercial malpractices across a wide range of business models. Last night, one of the topics covered a Loan Company called "Wonga" that advertises its services as including making almost instantaneous loans to suitable applicants who are then reportedly charged "exorbitant" rates of interest over a very short timescale. Many complainers to "Watchdog" asserted that despite having had no dealings with "Wonga", they were discovering to their horror that the Company had withdrawn money from the complainers' accounts. My question surrounds the logic of these complaints. For example, if I want to apply for a loan -from "Wonga" or anyone else, but I don't want to give my own personal and Bank Details, but instead, use someone else's - say someone whose details I have cloned as part of an Identity Theft Scam - then surely, if "Wonga" do even a very quick check on those details and find them acceptable, the subsequent loan must surely then be deposited in the other person's Bank Account - and not mine. So how do I - the fraudster - get my hands on the money? I would even need a Cash Machine Card and a Password belonging to the person whose Bank Details I was using to make that fraudulent transaction? I just don't get it. Maybe someone here can steer me through the Fog. Thanks 82.41.229.241 (talk) 13:20, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There doesn't appear to have been a great deal of press coverage of this matter, but I have found an article which discusses the fraud. In particular, it says: "It is not exactly clear how fraudsters are getting money out of Wonga, but it seems that one way is for them to take out a loan and have it paid into a bank account which they then delete from the Wonga system. The fraudster will then enter stolen bank card details, so when Wonga collects the loan repayment it takes it from that account, something that comes as a surprise to victims who have had no connection to the original loan."

I hope you understand that it would be remiss of us to answer the question "So how do I - the fraudster - get my hands on the money?" in more detail. Whilst we can direct you to reliable sources and articles describing instances of fraud, we should not provide a manual for committing crime. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 14:25, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I take the latter point on board - it had actually occurred to me after I had posted the question. I trust you will accept that my question was a figurative and rhetorical one, and not a request on how to perpetrate such a fraud. After having worked most of my life in the Criminal Justice System, I have no desire to become a guest of Her Majesty. But thanks for the rest of your response. I suspect, without knowing, that the 40 or so complainers identified by "Watchdog" may not be as fastidious as they should be in checking their accounts online much more frequently than perhaps they do. Thanks again. 82.41.229.241 (talk) 15:07, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. I completely understand that your question was asked in good faith, I just wanted to explain why I was only answering half of it. Like you say, it seems that part of the problem is people not realising quickly enough that they have been a victim of credit/debit card theft or identity fraud, although the article seems to suggest that Wonga's security policies don't help matters. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 15:15, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Personally I would have NOTHING to do with Wonga or any other loan company, but I do find it valuable to check out my bank account every day and did find that someone had cloned by wife's credit card and spent £700.00 one afternoon. The bank repaid it the same day.85.211.136.133 (talk) 07:07, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is another, admittedly slightly more radical, solution to ensuring that never happens again: divorce your wife. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 13:29, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just unhatted this discussion - it wasn't a request for legal advice. The OP just wondered how a particular scam worked, since there wasn't an obvious way that the scammers would get their money. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 18:44, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the discussion at talk. Please note that neither thisismoney.co.uk nor its editor Andrew Oxlade are reliable sources, and no other refs have been given. Please consider WP:SOAPBOX, and please note WP:BLP covers this. μηδείς (talk) 19:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Prunes

In South East Asia, particularly China, Hong Kong and Japan, you can buy these 'dried preserved prunes' in plastic packets ready for consumption. Is there a Wikipedia page on this, and if not, what are the traditional names of these products? Thank you! --CverilMineralResources (talk) 17:03, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean like these? Theu are widely availible in the U.S. too. I don't know that Wikipedia has a specific page on prunes in that exact type of packaging, there usually isn't enough information availible to write a good article on something like that. There is a Wikipedia article about Prunes in general, but it isn't very detailed on how various companies market and package their fruit, nor would I really expect it to be. --Jayron32 17:18, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You're not talking about Umeboshi, are you? - Ka renjc 17:28, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, they might actually be plums. They look like this but they have a large pip/rock in the middle that you spit out. Just can't find the chinese (?) name. --CverilMineralResources (talk) 19:08, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is it maybe Li hing mui? --Jayron32 19:19, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think that might be it. Thanks. --CverilMineralResources (talk) 20:25, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

September 14

please how can i compile a kernel which can be used in the cdrom:/isolinux

Question moved to the computing reference desk. --ColinFine (talk) 11:14, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Special type of ladder

Hi there,

not too many people reading here, so I'd like to put my question here, hoping to find more readers ... --Schwäbin (talk) 11:55, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Variously called a hook ladder, a pompier ladder (from the french for firefighter) or scaling ladder, although scaling can be one or two beam, when used in heraldry they are usually called scaling. meltBanana 12:10, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Chicken ladder" seems to be related [3][4][5]. Bus stop (talk) 12:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

request to delete contributions

I want to delete all the images I have contributed to this site. Since none of them are verifiable, that is you need to trust that I was accurate and you can't trust one persons opinion or report. So I wish to delete them completely and not have them used on this site. I will NEVER contribute to this site again.

Thank you,

Dan Breyfogle — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dtbrey (talk • contribs) 15:55, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This page is for requesting links and references to help with research. We cannot help you here. If you click on an image you have created and it says "This is a file from the Wikimedia Commons. Information from its description page there is shown below" then click on description page there. Click on the link at the top of that page that says discussion. Edit the discussion page to add {{delete}} and save it. The process will not be complete at that point, follow the instructions given. If you have future questions please direct them here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk as we cannot help you further at this desk. Please also consider asking an editor at the Help Desk to advise you on how you can recreate your deleted article and sufficiently source it so that it will not be deleted again. μηδείς (talk) 16:24, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That information is not correct in this particular case, but the advice to ask at the Help desk is the correct advice -- Dan, please do that. Looie496 (talk) 17:36, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry, I gave instruction for deletion form wikimedia commons, since another editor earlier said your files were hosted there. Instead click on the lins below, and cut and paste the bracketed information onto those pages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gardner2006.jpg {{subst:db-reason-notice|File talk:Gardner2006.jpg|header=1|author requests deletion of unused file}}

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gardner2006T.jpg {{subst:db-reason-notice|File talk:Gardner2006T.jpg|header=1|author requests deletion of unused file}}

Again, before you do this, you may want to ask at the help desk how to successfully recreate your article. μηδείς (talk) 17:50, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, looking over your contribs, you've released File:Gardner2006.jpg into the public domain (ditto your other image upload). As such, you technically no longer have any rights regarding the image. That said, deletion of an unused image shouldn't be particularly controversial -- but I figure it's worth warning you to be careful about what rights you relinquish in the future. — Lomn 18:33, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Edit: Similarly, your Commons uploads appear to be under a Creative Commons license, which is is not revokable. Again, deletion of unused files is generally non-controversial, but you should be prepared for the possibility that not all of the files will be deleted. — Lomn 18:43, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Mr. Breyfogle, if you follow my instructions, and the above naysayers do not act with good reason to oppose you, your files will be deleted as you request. If you have any trouble, please feel free to leave a note on my talk page. I have successfully had my own material deleted in the past. μηδείς (talk) 01:34, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Military service: Romney and Obama's families

I read that neither Mitt Romney nor Barack Obama saw fit to serve in the US military, but I got to wondering how many ancestors of either are known to have served in any army on any side in any historic conflict. Edison (talk) 18:24, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It completely baffles me the concern that US voters have that their politicians did military service. Astronaut (talk) 18:41, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So many assumptions in such a small font. Shadowjams (talk) 20:43, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But this is a very interesting sub-question. The answer to Astronaut is that in the US there was both compulsory military service and numerous chances to duck out of it. In the UK by contrast, the last PM to have served in the military was James Callaghan. It seems that all French presidents of the 20th and 21st centuries served. Hollande was exempted for myopia but appealed and is still an officer reservist. Chirac served in Algeria. Mitterrand was called up to the Maginot line, then deported to a prison camp in Germany, then in the Resistance. Quite different national cultures. Itsmejudith (talk) 21:22, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The US President is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, so one theory is that he might have more of a clue about the military if he actually served in it. An additional theory is that if he's been in combat himself, he might be a little more prudent about sending our children overseas to die for us. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:41, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And is there any empirical support for the latter? —Tamfang (talk) 20:15, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You mean "Does it really work that way?" I wouldn't bet the family jewels on it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:13, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Anyway, Barack Obama Sr.'s father Onyango had traveled widely, enlisting in the British colonial forces. After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Ann Dunham's father joined the United States Army, serving in the European Theatre of World War II with the 1830th Ordnance Supply and Maintenance Company, Aviation; and her mother worked at a Boeing plant in Wichita. Astronaut (talk) 18:48, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be a lot more information (more than I care to read) about Mitt Romney's family, probably due to the LDS' interest in geneology. Romney family and Pratt family have links to all the details including "William Pratt (1609–1678) was an early colonial settler, a lieutenant in the Pequot War..." and "Anson Pratt (1801-1849)... fought at the Battle of Nauvoo. Astronaut (talk) 19:05, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder what the OP means by neither of them "saw fit" to serve. That expression is pretty pejorative, usually used in a strong criticism of someone's alleged failure to act in some expected way. Is there some unspoken moral requirement or community expectation that people voluntary serve in the military in the US? -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 21:14, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The OP said "saw fit" because service was a choice available to each of the two individuals, and they chose to do other things. I don't know how you would prefer it to be phrased. Make a good suggestion and I might rephrase the question. Edison (talk) 00:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

They had the choice to do many things. They could have become train drivers, or librarians. It would be a really dumb thing to say "...neither Mitt Romney nor Barack Obama saw fit to become farmers". The question is obviously built around a belief by the OP that there is something special about military service, and that it's undesirable that neither took part. THAT IS the real guts of this question. Why are Americans so obsessed with military service and presidential candidates? HiLo48 (talk) 01:30, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not all people, but it's a plus for a Presidential candidate. And having dodged the draft, particularly by getting rich relatives to pull some strings, is highly unpopular with voters. Former President Bush may have avoided combat in that way. See George W. Bush military service controversy. StuRat (talk) 21:39, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I found this survey. As it backed up my personal opinion, I stopped searching there -true, but irrelevant.

A substantial majority of Americans say serving in the military is a sign of patriotism.

The military is one of the most positively viewed institutions in the country. In Gallup's June 2011 survey, 78 percent had a great deal or quite a lot of confidence in the military. It was the highest ranked institution in the poll.

Although historical data on college students' patriotism are not available, a near majority of them (48 percent) in a poll taken soon after 9/11 described themselves as very patriotic and another 44 percent as somewhat patriotic. In October 2004, those responses were 39 and 49 percent, respectively.

Please note: I am merely saying that I would agree that this is how Americans generally feel. I am not an American. Bielle (talk) 21:45, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks StuRat and Bielle. I was of course aware of the Bush allegations (not that it dented his being elected twice). But now that the draft is a thing of history, I'm surprised people would be viewing presidents or candidates through the prism of whether they voluntarily served or not. I mean, sure it'd be a plus to be able to point to having volunteered for military service. But is the absence of a plus automatically interpreted as a minus? That sort of makes a mockery of the abolition of the draft and the voluntary nature of military service these days. I guess when it comes to politics, anything's possible. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 22:50, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's only recently that viable presidential candidates were born late enough to have been post-Vietnam (in other words, post draft), so the issues of avoiding service are very much still in play. Shadowjams (talk) 23:31, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A comment purely from narrow personal experience... I have got to know a few Americans from West Virginia. They've told me that joining the military is possibly more popular there than elsewhere in the US, not for patriotic reasons, but because it's one good source of a decent job and income in an area that's been economically depressed for some time. Presidential candidates generally don't seem to come from economically depressed areas. HiLo48 (talk) 22:55, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also note that it's possible to have too much military experience. A presidential candidate who has never done anything outside the military might be considered insufficiently qualified to be President, as ordering Congress to do what you want tends not to go over very well. :-) StuRat (talk) 23:43, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know about that. It didn't seem to hurt career soldier Dwight D. Eisenhower any. Both parties wanted him to run under their banner. Ulysses S. Grant and Zachary Taylor got in on their military credentials. Also, Colin Powell and Douglas MacArthur got some support to run. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:34, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, after winning a major war, generals are a bit more popular than is typical. The rest of the time, they don't do as well. Also note that Eisenhower did do some things outside the military to broaden his experience, prior to his presidential run: Dwight_D._Eisenhower#President_at_Columbia_University_and_NATO_Supreme_Commander. StuRat (talk) 18:51, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There was a former career soldier in de facto control of the White House on 30 March 1981 when the president was unavoidably detained. Haig ran for the Republican nomination for president in 1988 but went nowhere fast. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 11:19, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Another sign of the American interest in this is the existance of List of Presidents of the United States by military service and List of United States Presidents by military rank. A lot of generals there. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:07, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

THIS IS YET ANOTHER REFERENCELESS INVITATION TO DEBATE THAT NEEDS HATTING OR REFERENCE TO ANI. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANYTHING NON-PARTISAN AND NON-POLITICAL TO ADD? IF NOT, CAN WE PLEASE HAT THIS? μηδείς (talk) 01:30, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There have been plenty of references so far. What are you complaining about now ? And all caps is considered rude here. StuRat (talk) 01:33, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"how many ancestors of either are known to have served in any army on any side in any historic conflict". Come again? Even if some people are taking that as an invitation to debate, that's still not a reason to yell at the whole room and ask for the thread to be hatted. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:34, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Links to irrelevant articles are not references, and in no case do they justify invitations to debate, which are forbidden. Your opinion that there are no rules is quite well known, there is no need to repeat it. μηδείς (talk) 01:37, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Let's see some relevant refs, someguy, or this goes to ANI as another a good reason to shut down the ref desks as a pestilence. (I do remembert someone else saying we should remind each other constantly to provide valid refs. μηδείς (talk) 01:39, 15 September 2012 (UTC))[reply]

I do not see why the original question should have set you off to the extent of your all caps vehemence.You get mad for no apparent reason and want to hat discussions and drag the matter to ANI, or to eliminate the Ref Desk entirely. You appear to be demanding references in the question itself, or to be claiming that no reliable sources could exist to answer the question. Which is it? It is a request for factual referenced information that might exist in a reliable source but is not readily found in Wikipedia. To make it less broad, lets stick to the years since 1776, to avoid someone claiming ancient warrior kings such as Charlemagne to be ancestors of either or both who fought in wars. For the US at least, pretty good records of military service back to 1776 have long been linked to genealogies.So far Obama's two grandfathers were in the military, with one on WW2 and the other vaguely in some British colonial force, not specifying whether in wartime or peacetime. A Pratt ancestor of Romney fought in the "Battle of Nauvoo," in 1846 in which Mormons were fighting non-Mormons in Illinois (We do not actually have an article on this "battle.") By the US Civil War, the Pratt and Romney ancestors seem to have been in Utah. Did those Utah residents stay out of that war, in general? There might be 6 or more generations of ancestors back to 1800, and only 3 persons have been identified above who might have fought for their country or tribe or faction. The links to the articles on the Romney and Pratt families are useful. Romney's father George was of the right age to have fought in WW2, but for some reason was a spokesman for car companies during the war rather than a fighter, per the article. George's father was the right age for the Spanish-American war, but had fled with his wives and kin to Mexico some years before. A Pratt had fought for a European power, but deserted the US Army while fighting the Mormons to join the Mormons.There seems to be less coverage, for fewer generation, of the Obama ancestors in Wikipedia than the Romney ancestors. The article on the Obama family could use more generations like the other articles mentioned. News stories have discussed Obama's ancestors back to the 1600's in America, so references must exist somewhere. Comments about Eisenhower or the Bushes seem off-topic. Edison (talk) 00:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Now, let's all debate Medeis' comment... HiLo48 (talk) 01:37, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Although British voters have always eschewed politicians of high military rank - the exception was the Duke of Wellington who was about the least popular prime minister ever - military service is almost compulsory for male members of the Royal Family. So not so great a cultural difference as some posters are suggesting. Alansplodge (talk) 22:29, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm finding it difficult to recall when military service (or not) was a significant part of the persona of a major Australian political figure. We don't seem to think it matters either way very much. Only one Prime Minister comes to mind, John Gorton, who was PM in 1968 to 1971. His air force career seemed to be mentioned from time to time. HiLo48 (talk) 22:43, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Whitlam (1972-75) served in the RAAF, like Gorton (1968-71). When Gorton became PM, he wasn't exactly a non-entity but he was a relatively little known Senator, and the Australian populace had to be quickly brought up to speed about this bloke. We heard about his RAAF service and how he survived being shot down three times, which explained his facial scarring. But other than that, his RAAF service counted for nothing politically. It was never significant in Whitlam's public career either. See List of Australian Prime Ministers by military service for some others. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 23:40, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thomas Jefferson ladder?

What is the name of this type of ladder where the steps don't go all the way across? The example that I've seen (and used) had three uprights and the rungs went from left to center, right to center, left to center, and so on. I've heard it called a Thomas Jefferson ladder but neither of our articles on ladders or Thomas Jefferson mention it. I'd like to know if Jefferson actually had a hand in inventing it or if his name just got attached to it somehow. And if there is a proper (however you want to define that) term for the type of ladder. Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 19:03, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The page you linked, calls it "alternating tread stairs". Sounds like a reasonable name to me. Astronaut (talk) 19:07, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean ladder or stairs? The ladder looks ordinary to me. Shadowjams (talk) 20:42, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is a tough one. One of the leading manufacturers calls them "alternating tread stairs" as well [6]. Jefferson is widely believed to have invented/promoted them, but you already knew that :)

This thread discusses how to build them [7], and someone there claims that the brochure at Monticello credits Jefferson as inventing them (the same thread also mentions Ben Franklin as a possible inventor) From Monticello.org, "According to architectural historians, who removed a modern staircase in 1979, the space was reached either by a ladder or a steep ladder-like stair." [8]. What might be confusing the issue is that Jefferson did invent and popularize a collapsible ladder [9], so the two may have been conflated along the way... SemanticMantis (talk) 21:13, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alternating-tread stairs are are quite old: I've encountered them at Lindisfarne Castle (pre-Lutyens) and at Glastonbury Abbey, both in stone blocks. While it's the sort of thing that would have appealed to Jefferson, the concept was not invented by him. Acroterion (talk) 22:43, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

September 15

Alumni of Allahabad University

Pt.Motilal (Nehru) was a student of Muir Central College of Allahabad before 1884. Allahabad University came into existence in 1887. Before 1887, Muir Central College was affiliated to Calcutta University. Thus as a student, he was not an alumnus of Allahabad University. Was this status conferred on him subsequently as an honour? If so, when?117.199.144.15 (talk) 06:32, 15 September 2012 (UTC) Ram Narain Lohkar[reply]

It looks like Allahabad University Alumni Association has chosen to honour Motilal Nehru as an alumnus[10] on the grounds that he studied at (but did not graduate from) Muir Central College, which developed into the university and where the buildings in which he studied are still standing. Presumably the University of Calcutta Alumni Association could do the same thing, if they chose to, on the grounds that Muir Central College was affiliated to the U of C before MCC became Allahabad University, although we don't have information on the nature of that affiliation (was the university the degree-awarding body for MCC at that time, for example, or did it award its own qualifications?) Neither claim is 100% accurate, and both could be said to be partially correct. In either case, the statement that he has been acknowledged in a publication by the Alumni Association - an old scholars' club - is fairly trivial in the context of the rest of the article. - Ka renjc 21:06, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Limited" form of Female Genital Mutilation

Female genital mutilation is a horrific practice, I think most would agree. My personal opinion is that men who advocate removing women's clitorises should have their penises cut off.

My question is about the specific (and relatively rare) form of FGM which involves cutting off just the clitoral hood (not doing anything to the clitoris itself). Anatomically, this would seem the closest version to the "male" circumcision equivalent. Is this version any more cruel or painful (or detrimental to sexual feeling and function) than male circumcision?

I'm well aware that there are those who claim that male circumcision, too, negatively affects sexual feeling. I'm just trying to get a comparison to this specific female version.

(Note: I am not an advocate of FGM in any form). 58.111.230.117 (talk) 14:33, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a general discussion forum. Either address the question, or be silent. Looie496 (talk) 17:17, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Note that in the most severe form, the vagina is actually sewn shut, and grows together, so that any sex is likely to be painful and cause injury. Corrective surgery may be required to open it up again, either for menstruation or for sex (which means after marriage, in those places). StuRat (talk) 15:59, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If that's not typical, how is it relevant? Card Zero (talk) 16:18, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What should women who advocate or perpetuate the practice have cut off? For example, Ayaan Hirsi Ali recounts in her Infidel how it was her father who was against her being FGMmed and her granma who had it done to her. Asmrulz (talk) 17:09, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Unless you have read it already: the article Clitoral hood reduction has some information on that. The article seems to deal mainly with the "cosmetic" aspects of CHR and not with any cultural practices. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:55, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

urban history research question: Croton Aqueduct and High Bridge

I read this article in the NYT, and it mentioned the High Bridge over the Harlem River between Manhattan and The Bronx. That led me to our article on the Croton Aqueduct.

Our articles on the aqueduct and the bridge, however, left me with two questions:

When was the Croton Aqueduct taken out of service?
After that, what was the point of maintaining the High Bridge?

A huge reconstruction was done on the bridge in 1928 (replacing most of the masonry arches with a much larger steel one). Was the bridge still in use as an aqueduct then?

A $20 million project is currently underway to restore the bridge for pedestrian use by 2013. Is pedestrian access the only point of the project?

(My point in asking is partly curiosity, and partly to see our articles improved, so if you like, feel free to spend time improving the articles instead of answering here.) —Steve Summit (talk) 16:22, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't the second paragraph of High Bridge (New York City)#Aqueduct basically answer your two numbered questions, as well as the "Was the bridge still in use as an aqueduct then?" one? Deor (talk) 01:22, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How can I write rho so it doesn't look like p?

--168.7.229.0 (talk) 18:09, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Start at the bottom and draw the p upwards, with a slight slant to the right. --TammyMoet (talk) 18:12, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rho looks like this: ρ. Looie496 (talk) 18:17, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can't help you with the capital, but the article rho itself shows a loopier character that looks like a cursive lowercase 'e' with the tail below the line as the second lowercase variant. When I studied Greek in University we were taught to draw the stem at a 45 degree angle ascending to the upper right, so it looked much more slanted and less peeish than the standard font here, more like this ρ italic form (or, much better, see here). Also, a printed 'p' is drawn stem first from the upper left down, leaving a little nub at the top, while a rho is drawn in one upward then clockwise motion, so it lacks the nub of the 'p' which is drawn in two separate strokes. μηδείς (talk) 18:31, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) In some fonts, that certainly could be confused with a lowercase p. Unfortunately, uppercase rho (Ρ) looks exactly like uppercase P. Therefore, I suggest using a different slant, font, size, bolding, color, or highlighting to distinguish all your Greek letters from English ones: ρ, ρ, ρ, ρ, ρ, ρ, ρ, etc. StuRat (talk) 18:40, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the loopier ϱ I mentioned from the article. μηδείς (talk) 20:40, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mail 'Trash'

Having just installed Apple's Lion and Mountain Lion I have 'lost' the Trash box on my Mail page. Any ideas as to how restore it please?--85.211.199.83 (talk) 18:20, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This would probably get better responses at the Computing Desk. Dismas|^(talk) 18:43, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

On mail version of Mail, which is a little older, I can make the Trash appear by going to the Mailbox menu, selecting Go To, and then selecting Trash. If this isn't exactly in your version, look for something similar. RudolfRed (talk) 04:01, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done that, many thanks.--85.211.199.83 (talk) 06:13, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

September 16

30 Gallon Fish tank, how many fish?

Okay so I started setting up a 30-gallon fish tank 3 weeks ago and so far have the following fish

3 Guppies 1 Molly 1 Red-finned shark 1 Green spotted puffer

I want to get another guppy and possibly a loach and a figure-8 puffer but I'm not sure approximately how many fish is healthy for the tank. Does anyone know how many fish I could possibly have in my tank? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pennypuppy475 (talk • contribs) 02:36, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would think it would vary by the types of fish. Have you spoken to your pet supply store? And if it does get too crowded, put a piranha in there, and the crowd will thin out. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:03, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also consider that some fish can grow quite a bit. Catfish come to mind immediately, but that red-finned shark might also grow up to 6 inches long. You need to account for their future size, not just their current size, unless you plan to get larger aquariums as they grow. StuRat (talk) 03:08, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but don't fish tend to grow in proportion to the size of their environment? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:12, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely not. That's a myth, and a particularly cruel one for large fish first bought as juveniles. They are called "tankbusters" for that reason, and often die from overcrowding or are abandoned by their owners. Some fish, however, will remain smaller in small tanks than what they would naturally grow to. But not because they're acclimating, but because their growth is stunted (i.e. those are unhealthy fish). Unscrupulous pet shop storekeepers will often tell you anything to sell the fish, particularly large species which they would need to get rid as soon as possible as their upkeep can become expensive once they become adults.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 12:46, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The standard rule of thumb is one inch of fish per gallon, assuming a slender body form like a guppy, not a goldfish. Google will confirm this generously, for example: http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/a/fishcalc.htm Guppies are actually best raised alone, and with live plants, since they will breed very easily, which is great fun, until the other fish, especially the shark, (or crowded guppyadults) start eating them. Even with only guppies, I wouldn't start with more than a dozen or so adults. You can get 8 males to four females since they are prettier and this will keep down reproduction. (Eventually you will have to separate sexes due to overcrowding, but not right away.) If you begin with a reasonable number of fish and only add one at a time you will find that overcrowding will solve itself with mutual predation. That can be upsetting when your favorite fish is the most delicate. μηδείς (talk) 03:23, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To make it possible for non-Americans to contribute here, 30 US gallons is around 113 litres. HiLo48 (talk) 03:31, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Odd how the British always surrender to the French. That works out to 0,2655 inches de poisson pour litre. μηδείς (talk) 05:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

British surrender???? Never! Many of us here in the UK have not surrendered to the French! 30 US gallons is almost 25 Imperial gallons and these units are still used for fish tanks. Have Australians surrendered? If the 30 gallons were English (as BB thinks below) then to enable Americans to contribute, that's about 36 US gallons (or just over 136 of those metric things). Dbfirs 07:19, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Surrendered? To the French? Jamais!! Alors, formidable! -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 07:33, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Currently he has 5 fish in his English-system tank. How many fish is that in metric? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:12, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Latin for less than one and Greek for greater. Hence half a dekaichthyon. See metric prefixes. μηδείς (talk) 05:29, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I live in one of those countries where the Illuminati have forced the adoption of the metric-kery system, and I've just come back from a local fish-market. When I asked for half a "dekaichthyon" of flake, they just looked at me like I was a crazy person. Mind you, people quite often look at me like I am a crazy person.--Shirt58 (talk) 07:09, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Or perhaps a flake. StuRat (talk) 07:15, 16 September 2012 (UTC) [reply]

?met?

This user prefers metric units and cannot figure out why Americans and Brits have such a hard time with them.

HiLo48 (talk) 08:12, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The converse seems to be the problem. I have never met an American (other than some women over a certain age) who is not comfortable with metrics. I had an outlandish editor who insisted (saying his younger Australian relatives didn't understand traditional measures!) on putting a metric conversion in the middle of a verbatim anecdote, to the effect of: "A journey of a thousand miles (1,609 kilometers) begins with a single step." μηδείς (talk) 17:48, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I know it's quite tempting, but you shouldn't buy one each of every fish you like. Guppies are great for beginners, so are Mollies (but both species should be kept in groups - either all male or with more females than males, otherwise the females will be chased all the time by several males which is very stressful for them!), the other fish you already have not so much. Guppies and Mollies can cross breed so I wouldn't keep them together, but if you don't mind getting mixed offspring that's OK. The green spotted puffer is a sensitive fish that needs live feeding (snails, shrimp, small fish) and once it's mature it'll also start feeding on its tank mates (if it lives that long), so it's not a great “community tank” fish. AFAIK it's also only a fresh water fish during “childhood” (don't remember the correct term) and will need brackish water as an adult, and while Guppies and Mollies tolerate some salt I don't think you could keep them in brackish water. I wouldn't recommend keeping loaches (again, group fish that don't want to be kept alone!) together with a red-finned shark, s/he will become quite territorial once s/he's mature and attack the loaches (who can be quite agressive towards other bottom feeders, too). --Six words (talk) 09:22, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Like Six words already mentioned, green spotted puffers are not the fish for beginners. And while sold as freshwater fish as juveniles, once they reach 2 to 4 inches they should be kept in brackish water, and as full adults (about 6 inches) they should be kept in marine water. They grow to six inches, are quite territorial. They will eat or otherwise aggressively attack and kill their tankmates as adults. They also need to be fed with live hard-shelled foods so their teeth can wear down naturally (e.g. crustaceans, clams, and snails), otherwise their teeth can become overgrown and they will starve. Bottom-line, you should not have bought one if you wanted a community aquarium. The same applies for the figure-8 puffer and almost all other puffers, all of which should be kept to one fish per 30 gallons of water. See if you can return the fish for its sake (DON'T release it local waterways).

For the rest of your fish, guppies are very good community tank fish, though the mollies not so much. Like other poeciliids, they are always trying to mate and can overpopulate very quickly. Males can become aggressive to each other and to other species, and should best be kept either as single-sex groups or in harems (one male to at least 2 or 3 females). Rainbow sharks are best kept to only one individual per tank. Once they're larger they may also start eating your smaller fish, so if I were you, I'd see if I could return it too.

For a community tank, this guide is excellent. A good general bit of advice is to plan ahead on what fish you want to keep and stick with it. Do not add more every time you see interesting fish in the petshop. Also take note of the mouth sizes. Don't keep fish together with fish that have mouths large enough to swallow the other. And always research how big the fish are going to be when fully grown. There's a good list of fish suited for community tanks here.

Stick with keeping only two to three species of the more peaceful and active schooling/shoaling fish for mid to upper-levels of the aquarium. Like cherry barbs, rainbowfish, harlequin rasboras, or white cloud minnows. Keep them in groups of at least six, and they more than make up for the lack of variety in species in small tanks as they are quite entertaining to look at moving around. Note that some rainbowfish species can grow quite large. A male/female pair of a single gourami species is also good as mid to upper-level fish. Either dwarf corydoras or otos are also better than your rainbow shark as bottom-tank dwellers. These should be kept in a group of at least 3 individuals, and otos may require a supplementary diet of boiled greens.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 12:34, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My experience with gouramis is that they always end up killing each other and smaller fish like guppies. (They are also quite suicidal.) I don't recommend them, and certainly not with smaller fish. I never had a problem with guppies in groups of two males to one female, but I always only picked males with very fancy tails, so they were probably too slow to be too much of a problem--at least I never had a female die of harassment from a male. I was going to recommend trying to return the fish as the others have, but my experience is most stores won't take returns even if you don't want your money back. μηδείς (talk) 17:30, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How does a fish commit suicide ? Do they jump out of the aquarium ? StuRat (talk) 17:58, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I meant the smaller gouramis, of course, given the earlier warning on mouth size - e.g. Trichogaster lalius, Trichogaster chuna, Trichopsis schalleri and Trichopsis pumila (which can only grow to a maximum of 1 to 3 inches). And yes, like other anabantoids (which include bettas), males are highly territorial with other males and will generally try to kill each other if kept together. And yes, larger gouramis are usually quite vicious. I've also kept wild-caught specimens of the much larger three-spot gouramis (which can grow up to 6 inches), and they are perhaps one of the most aggressive fish I've ever known. -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 19:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

One thought, do they sell screen dividers, to keep the dangerous fish separate, yet still within the same aquarium ? (Of course, this won't solve the freshwater versus saltwater problem.) StuRat (talk) 17:58, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the gouramis will deroofestrate themselves quite vigourously. (I suppose they'll defenestrate if your tank has windows.) Also, even the small mouthed ones will attack sick, wounded, or vulnerable fish, leading to their death within a few days. I never got gouramis after the first year or so of keeping a tank. Long after I started keeping a tank, a friend gave me a two-inch white gourami (I don't know the species). It was a monster. It killed half the fish in my tank within a week. I put it in a goldfish bowl by itself in the back yard. It froze over the winter. And lived. It finally committed suicide (Bugs?) having no othe victim to harass. After that I stuck with guppies in one tank and a beautiful pumpkinseed sunny I netted one summer in another. The sunny was my favorite ever, and lived three years. μηδείς (talk) 22:20, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Analytical Ability/Reasoning questions

Dear Wiki Desk mates,

I am looking for an online resource/website/documents containing solved practice questions testing Analytical Reasoning questions (similar to the ones in Old GRE format). I am pasting out a sample question : SAMPLE QUESTION :

Six films (Quest to Hope, Rats, Sam, Terror, Victory, and Wellfleet are scheduled to be screened at a film festival. No more than two films may be screened during one day, but all of the films will be screened exactly once during the festival held Wednesday through Sunday. The screening schedule adheres to these parameters:

The producers of Terror will not allow it to be screened anytime prior to the screening of Victory. Rats and Sam are complementary shorts and are to be screened the same day. Quest to Hope and Wellfleet are both black-and-white films and should not be screened the same day.

Question 1 If Victory and Terror are screened the same day, which of the following must be true about the film festival schedule if it conforms to its parameters? (A) Quest to Hope and Wellfleet will be screened the same day. (B) Victory cannot be screened on Sunday. (C) Sam and Rats will not be screened the same day. (D) Exactly one day of the schedule will not have any film screening. (E) Each day of the schedule will have at least one film screening.

PLEASE HELP ME OUT.

THANKS, Chris — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.110.112.185 (talk) 11:56, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do you just want resources, or do you also want our help solving those sample questions ? StuRat (talk) 17:52, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This Google search on "analytical reasoning questions" brought up a wide variety of sites that host such questions and answers. Perhaps some of them will be what you are looking for. - Ka renjc 18:45, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

@ Chris, I just want the resources--online, free and accessible, offcourse :-) @karenjc, I have been through this , the results on the first 4 pages are absolutely crap and insubstantial. I would be obliged , if you can help me with something more concrete.

Regards, Chris

James D. Doss, my favorite mystery author, died in 2012. He lived in NM

and should be listed among the notable people in the Taos, NM, listing. Thank you. He was born in KY, don't know what city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.60.95.194 (talk) 16:17, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article James Doss already mentions his death. I have editied the Taos, New Mexico article to mention him and added an entry to the disambiguation page, Doss. As an aside, I have my doubts about some of the entries in Taos, New Mexico#Notable people - it seems some of them might have had only a fleeting association with the town. Astronaut (talk) 17:02, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have noticed the fleeting association phenomenon in many such articles. My solution is to clarify the length and period of association, since if you simply delete them they grow back. μηδείς (talk) 17:36, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why are Hiroshima and Nagasaki safe to live in now?

The surrounding areas of Chernobyl are still deserted and carry radioactivity warning. But why are Hiroshima and Nagasaki safe to live in now? Should there still be radioactive residue? Acceptable (talk) 18:23, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There was just a lot less fallout in Hiroshima and Nagasaki than Chernobyl. The bombs were detonated very high above the ground and contained far fewer fission products than the Chernobyl accident. They're somewhat like comparing apples and oranges. A better comparison to Chernobyl would be something like Castle Bravo — a much larger bomb with much more fission products detonated at ground level. --Mr.98 (talk) 19:00, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

See Comparison of Chernobyl and other radioactivity releases#Chernobyl compared with an atomic bomb. One reason is that much more material was released during the Chernobyl incident than during Hiroshima/Nagasaki. (See [11] for a graphical depiction.) Another difference is the distribution of isotopes released. Hiroshima/Nagasaki was from a single atomic event by relatively pure uranium/plutonium. Chernobyl, however, was from a reactor core where the radioactive decay products had been sitting for a while under persistent neutron flux, leading to different isotope distributions. The final reason is simply time. It's only been 26 years since Chernobyl, but 67 years since Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Because of radioactive decay, even if they had started with the same amount of material, Hiroshima/Nagasaki would be less radioactive than Chernobyl, especially for those isotopes with a 2-40 year half life. And it's the short-half life isotopes that are usually the most concerning, as they're the ones emitting the most decay products in a given amount of time. (Although there are a number of longer-lived isotopes that are also a concern.) For example, this page [12] from the Hiroshima Peace Site notes that while the radiation was rather high for 24-48 hours after the blast, it rapidly decreased to normal background levels. -- 71.35.125.16 (talk) 19:33, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So Hiroshima and Nagasaki are safe to life in currently? How many years since the blast was it seemed safe it to live in? Acceptable (talk) 19:46, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the cities were evacuated at all, although that may be more because the dangers of nuclear fallout weren't well understood rather than because it was actually safe. --Tango (talk) 21:51, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is the fact that the greatest danger is from isoptopes with short radioactive half-lives, since they give off the most radiation most quickly, but also decay and become harmless most quickly. According to these sources, 80% of the residual radiation dissipated within one day, and the area quickly (within days) reverted to having no more than the normal background radiation of any average place on earth. μηδείς (talk) 22:03, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Problem solving

For many years, my interest has been in finding a general problem-solving (equivalently, decision-making) algorithm. This is essentially entscheidungsproblem (and certainly at least a superset of it) and it has been shown that there is no general algorithm for solving it. My biggest problem at the moment is reducing the scope of this problem to one which is solvable. For instance, one may limit problems to solve to synthetic problems (such as physical ones), although even then the scope is too large since there are computational and other issues. Another approach to find an algorithm which gives approximate solutions, where the approximation is optimal in some sense. Does anyone have any advice? Widener (talk) 20:30, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

First, are you familiar with systems engineering ? This is an attempt to handle problems in a multi-discipline way, which seems what you are aiming for. StuRat (talk) 20:46, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also of interest might be Watson (computer), an attempt by IBM to answer any question. However, note that they gave up on having it think like a human, and settled for just doing a keyword search on terms they pull out of the question. StuRat (talk) 20:50, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]