Talk:Argentina

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Implicit political tendency in false assertion and lack of partiality

"Argentina ranks 100th out of 178 countries in the Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index for 2011. Reported problems include government corruption, lack of judicial independence, huge taxes and tariffs, and regulatory interference that undermines efficiency and productivity growth"

Due to the world crisis, Argentina's government has decided to substantially increase the level of protectionism (AKA REGULATORY INTERFERENCE...) by limiting imports. These regulations are keeping internal economy quite boosted, increasing productivity due to high demand of made-in-argentina goods of every kind. The assertion that it's the other way around actually is only a best-wish statement of a neo-liberalist, but you may take some time to read Argentina's history to find out that all major crisis in here where caused by neo-liberalist politics (Military junta-Carlos Menem-Fernando de la Rua).

Take the time to read heritage.org (the quoted source) to prove yourself that it's only a battlehorse of liberalism hipocrecy making some statements about a socialist government.

So I request that quote to be removed due to lack of partiality — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.136.110.158 (talk) 04:38, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

wtf?

"placing the country high in the global rankings of literacy. Today Argentina has a literacy rate of 97,4%,[136] and 16,2% over age 15 have completed secondary school studies or higher."

Somebody should check the seconcdary school completition percentage, I find it very hard to believe only 16% finished high school... I heard somewhere it was more like 60-70% wich seems more believele. 16% is Sub-saharan-african-country's bad...

Oh and somebody please fix the GINI, it says the same thing since f*cking forever (Its like 4 years old), its about 0.37ish now, and it would be "middle" not "high", and few countries put the "low-middle-high" thing anyways... --190.244.81.170 (talk) 04:30, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Ethnicity

I just can't believe the statistics on the number of people of pure european descent. I was recently in Buenos Aires and I swear at least 30% of the people were mestizo to some degree, the native south american appearance is quite a distinctive look. I'm from Europe and no way does it look like a homogenous european group of people. Possibly this is the result of increased migration from peru etc but either way - it certainly was not "overwhelmingly white european" Jandrews23jandrews23 (talk) 21:04, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

2 further points: being "white" is not the same as being 100% european descent. Mestizos are white

If this is based on self identification only its hardly scientific.

Based on the people you see when you walk around I'd suggest its more like 60% european, 40% native/mestizo. I saw a handful of black people and two asians. Jandrews23jandrews23 (talk) 21:13, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Jandrews says:

"I was recently in Buenos Aires and I swear at least 30% of the people were mestizo to some degree"

Buenos Aires doesn't represent all of Argentina, and central Buenos Aires (where you probably were) doesn't even represent all of Buenos Aires. So, you can't rely on pure observation. It would be like someone visiting Miami and concluding that half the US population is Spanish-speaking. Skyduster (talk) 06:00, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Ethnicity (Again and again)

Now the proportion of Asian people in Argentina is 0% huh? let me ask you something, editors of this page, does the term Chinese Argentine mean something to you? nearly 1% of Argentina's population is composed by Asians, being them Chinese, Japanese or Korean, natives or immigrants. To this is added that proportion of white Argentines is not lower, but significantly lower than the proportion of white U.S Americans, and that proporcion of Afro Argentines doesn't match what is seen on the streets As I told you several times before, Latinobarometro is far from a reliable source, you must search for better sources. --190.216.6.110 (talk) 04:10, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I haven't really looked into it, but you can find more sources at the relevant articles in Spanish WP: [1][2]

Some of them: [3][4][5]

Also, the Joshua Project could be considered. --Langus (t) 21:19, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

¿Puerto Madero is the main financial center of Buenos Aires?

This is completely wrong. Although some corporate headquarters are located in Puerto Maderno, this is mostly a RESIDENTIAL district, in fact, all the buildings of the photo are residential buildings. The main financial center of Buenos Aires is Retiro district. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.216.6.110 (talk) 22:12, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Problems in Lede

I've noticed some problems in this article's lede. For example, the lede has an entire paragraph talking about same-sex marriage while the body of the article mentions it as an aside in a single sentence. According to the manual of style this is backwards; the lede should be brief and the details belong in the article. Also, the lede text generally does not need footnotes as it should be a summary of the main body's content which in turn should be properly footnoted. Is anybody actively working on this? I notice a previous comment that offered to break up the article back in May and nothing since. Thanks, Dave (djkernen)|Talk to me|Please help! 18:11, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Moved marriage stuff down to Contemporary section, undue wt for lead. Vsmith (talk) 10:25, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 22 August 2012

§ About half way down in the tourism section "he" should be "The"

"he most popular tourist sites are..." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tiger22222 (talk • contribs) 06:52, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Fixed. Vsmith (talk) 10:32, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Bias and total subjectivity of this "article"

Vias and total subjectivity of this "article" (if you could call it that) on "Argentina", by subjective and false in several of his concepts, I speak knowingly, I am Argentine, and that the reality of this country is very different from that which would have us believe in this article: Argentina is a third world country currently uncertain, with a lot of poverty, extreme corruption (especially the government), unemployment, pseudo-companies (who live off the state) eg Arcor sancor, Grupo Clarin, La Serenissima, Molinos Rio de la Plata and some others not worth mentioning, a shameless and corrupt government so far like the present.

Pedro Gonzalez Rosario Santa Fe — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.225.135.102 (talk) 02:51, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

"Limiting the freedom of speach" in Cristina's goverment

Cristina's goverment no "limiting the freedom of speach". They don´t censored any publication or other. They (with votation of legislature) only do a law that regulated the maximun numbers of licenses of massive comunication media that can have one economic group. Because little number of economics groups have the mayor numbers of licenses, and don´t like this law (like Grupo Clarin, that have the most sealed diary, multiple channels of tv, multiple radio, and other) and they have an "information monopoly" she have a "bad press" in most mass multimedia; but is parcial position take it as true. Sorry my english! :). Cheers. Marcosm21 (talk) 08:52, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Limits to the freedom of the press do not require outright censorship. Harassment from the government to induce self-censorship count towards it as well. And there are too many examples to count: the "clarín miente" banners, the libels against Clarín by government-financed media, the expropiation of Papel Prensa, the Noble bothers case, etc. As for the law, it is applied selectively: there are many groups that excede the numbers of licences, but the government does nothing to put them in line. Not surprisingly, of all of them Clarín is the only one which is not aligned with the government. Cambalachero (talk) 12:57, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Clarín is a particular case. Make a show with "the bad image of the president" and publish unreliable information to persuade people of its position (e.g. make many predictions wrong about economy, try to influence public opinion actively by certain positions in judicial proceedings, etc.). Freedom of expression applies to both government and the press. The governments can comment without restricting freedom of press. La Nación, other opposition media, has more rigorous in his publications. Marcosm21 (talk) 14:21, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Even if that was true, it still would not allow the government's attacks described. Have in mind that, historically and internationally, it have always been the dictatorships and the cuasi-dictatorships those who saw the freedom of the press as a "problem". In the free republics, the press may say whatever they want, and the government does not interfere with it, in fact they support the press right to say whatever they want. If they "lie", that would be their own problem, as they would lost credibility; but that's not a problem for the government.

But let's take it down to the sources. Can you point someone who supports the "Clarín is the real problem" perspective... while being independent and neither financed by the government nor aligned to it? Cambalachero (talk) 15:20, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

The problem is a monopoly of information. Now Clarin say he is "independent media", but received funding for its development and was a tool of dictatorship. I don´t want to expose a political position (sorry if i do it). I just think that set as true the position of the freedom of expression of an economic group, for being the most important, is not neutral and does not represent the reality of the country. Marcosm21 (talk) 16:57, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

There is no monopoly: there are several newspapers and media in Argentina which are not part of the Clarín group, of both political lines (you mentioned La Nación yourself). And Clarín is independent, it is not affiliated or financed by any political party. And the link you gave does not prove anything, the headlines are simply mentioning the things that happened in the common newspaper headline style, the second is a government advertisment, and the others are from other publications, unrelated to Clarín. But even if Clarín supported the Junta, it would be a non-sequitur argument: that was more than 30 years ago. The freedom of the press applies to all media, regardless of reputation.

And, in any case, why are we talking about Clarín? It is not mentioned in that section of the article, nor used as a reference of the sentence. The government does not attack only Clarín, but all media that is not aligned with them, such as La Nación and Perfil as well, competitors of Clarín. Cambalachero (talk) 18:24, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, this discussion is exceeding the objective of the article. I think, however, that the phrase "The government waged several controversies with the press, limiting the freedom of speech." should be deleted or changed to not expose positions of certain groups to describe the situation in the country. Here everyone can speak, publish and protest without government censorship. Cheers. Marcosm21 (talk) 18:49, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

It is not the position of an individual group. It is shared by all the independent media of Argentina, even when do not belong to a single common "group", and even by international media. The only ones who blame Clarín (a mere newspaper, not less, but no more) of the problems of Argentina are the media which is financed by the government and proudly announce themselves as "soldiers of Cristina" or similar stuff. You will have a hard time seeking an actual independent source that supports Kirchner in her projects towards Clarín. And this info is included in the article because the conflict with the media has been a driving force of most government actions since the end of the dispute with ruralism. Cambalachero (talk) 19:15, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

I modified the sentence to remove an ideological stance. I not eliminate any information. Marcosm21 (talk) 19:23, 27 September 2012 (UTC)