Talk:International recognition of Kosovo/Archive 40

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Indonesia's reaction to the 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence

I think Indonesia's reaction to the 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence should be merged into this article as it is not inherently notable as its own subject; worth a paragraph in International recognition of Kosovo or two at most. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:55, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

I'd agree with that. Indonesia's reaction to the 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence seems to be rather short of notability in its own right. It would be better to discuss it here. bobrayner (talk) 01:48, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

• Disagree - Indonesia's reaction was moved to a new article for technical reasons, i.e. reducing the size (and useability) of this article per WP:TOOLONG. Indonesia was one of the longest sections in this article, taking up (on my monitor at least) an entire screen. It is best kept separate. Of course, if its content were to be sensibly reduced (without removing anything important) then I would not necessarily argue with its reincorporation here. Bazonka (talk) 06:53, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
  • That's a good point; this topic in general, and the Indonesia text in particular, is getting a bit bulky. bobrayner (talk) 09:25, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
• Disagree - Indonesia is the fourth most populous country, the most populous Muslim country, and one of the biggest economies of the world. If its relations with Kosovo are not notable, then very few of the breakout articles would be. Bazonka is right: if everyone is going to chime in now and say that these breakout articles are not notable, then the info included in this article will need to be reduced: sensibly, but drastically. Konchevnik81 (talk) 14:32, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
• Weak Disagree It is a very long in depth article regarding the recognition/ non-recognition of Kosovo by Indonesia aka the largest Muslim country in the world, therefore I can see why Indonesia's non-recognition is important and notable compared to other smaller countries; especially as Kosovo has been seeking recognition from the Islamic world. Then there is the article size issue. IJA (talk) 17:11, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
• Agree. If the section on Indonesia had become overlong then the solution should have been some editing to cut it down to size.Dejvid (talk) 23:09, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Dejvid, the "too long" template at the top of the article states "please consider splitting content into sub-articles". That's all we're doing here. Yes, some trimming may help, but that will have the detrimental effect of reducing the level of information available - Wikipedia is all about information dissemination. Also consider WP:NOTPAPER - it's only the technical limitations of long articles that force us to split. Personally, I think that this proposal to merge the articles back together is just ridiculous and hasn't really considered the bigger picture. Bazonka (talk) 06:53, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Unless anyone vehemently disagrees, I'm going to remove the merge template. We're not going to reach consensus on this, and it's leaning towards the don't merge camp anyway. Bazonka (talk) 07:25, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Slovakia position is given but it is not set in stone, People's Republic of China recognise KS passport

Gazeta Express published an article who is written about the recognition of Kosovan passport by the People's Republic of China, PRC recognise KS passport in example of Greece and Slovakia. PRC office in Pristina helped the process. Interesting news about the relations between Pristina and Beijing, but more interesting is the news from Slovakia. Express Link The Economist journalist asked the new Foreign Minister of Slovakia Miroslav Lajčák about Kosovo recognition. Lajcák said: “our position is given but it is not set in stone. It will certainly be adjusted when the situation on the ground is different.”The Economist link During the Global Security Forum in Bratislava, Slovakia invited Kosovo's Deputy Foreign Minister Petrit Selimi. In the context of “Globsec” conference Selimi also had a meeting with the Political Director of the Slovak Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Peter Michalko. Mr. Michalko confirmed that Slovakia supports Kosovo’s European perspective and encouraged Kosovar authorities to continue the cooperation with the EU as the fastest way of normalizing relations in the Balkans. MFA of Kosovo Irvi Hyka (talk) 22:00, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Recognoize of passport is to enable land locked Kosovo citizens to be free to travel. It is not automatic recognition of country, even it could be seen as to.

Hmmm ... Young nationalisms are hard to nornalize. But common interest of Serbia and Kosovo could be EU integration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rastavox (talk • contribs) 16:56, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Albanian recognition

I need to point out that the caption is wrong where it states Albania has "de jure recognised since 1991". The situation is that Republic of Kosova was declared during this time and its proponents initiated certain institutions, these however were dismantled by the would-be authorities upon the creation of UNMIK whereby Kosovan local authorities fully observed U.N. Res 1244 at all times between its inception in 1999 until February 2008 when they declared independence. The self-governance within Kosovo 1999-2008 with no interference or presence from Belgrade's authorities neither amounted to the continuation of Republic of Kosova neither did it represent an entity outside of Serbia/Yugoslavia's sovereignty; had this been so, the declaration of independence in 2008 would have been pointless since ethnic Albanians would have recognised continuation of a state formed 1990/91. To that end, Republic of Kosova ceased diplomatic missions from 1999 and Albania was in no position to continue recognition of a defunct state. So recognition firstly of Kosova until 1999 and Kosovo from 2008 must be treated as two subjects otherwise it is misleading. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 23:26, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

It is the Albanians themselves who linked the two, as you can see in the links provided. "Based on Declaration of Assembly of Albania, on October 21, 1991, in compliance with decision of Assembly of Kosovo, on February 17, 2008 for Declaration of Independence, based on the rights of people for self-determination, based on principle of good-neighbourhood relations, I will call tomorrow a Council of Ministers meeting to decide the establishment of diplomatic relations between Republic of Albania and Republic of Kosovo at Ambassador level." --Khajidha (talk) 06:53, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure you follow my point. Yes I know Albania recognised Kosova in the 1990s and wasted no time in recognising Republic of Kosovo in 2008. The page focuses on the post-2008 entity and it does not make sense to present Albania as having recognised an entity which establsihed itself in 2008 from as far back as 1991. It needs an amendment such as "also recognised previously self-declared republic 1991-1999" but you know that within the first eight years of UNMIK/1244 governance, there was no sovereign element for Albania to recognise and therefore that period if no other presents a vacuum. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 10:41, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Evlekis please stick to the sources.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 11:43, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

All right, you find me a source to state that Albania recognised an independent Kosovo during the period between 2001 and 2006 - who was Kosovo's ambassador to Albania at this time? What was the address of Albania's diplomatic mission in Kosovo in that time? And what was the occasion of Albania formally recognising Republic of Kosovo in 2008? You are claiming there was continued recognition going back to 1991. So where is the source? Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 12:12, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Not only that but stating that Albania has "de jure recognized" Kosovo since Oct. 21, 1991 seems to be at odds with the information in the Albania - Kosovo relations article, which says that Albania recognized the Kosovo independence movement in 1992 but then reaffirmed Yugoslavia's borders in 1994. Also, how credible would a recognition coming from the Albanian government be when it was still in the process of transitioning away from communism? The country didn't have its first fully democratic elections until 1992, and so I'm not even sure if pronouncements made in 1991 count as positions of the People's Socialist Republic of Albania or of the modern Republic of Albania.

Long and short, this info seems better integrated into the Albania - Kosovo relations article, if anywhere. This article should stay focused to reactions to the 17 February 2008 declaration.Konchevnik81 (talk) 21:33, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 04:45, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

The ridiculous bit is that there wasn't a Kosovo claiming to be independent between 1999 and 2008. Albania is saying that they're recognising Kosovo in 2008 for the same reasons they recognised Kosovo in 1991. Albania did not recognise Kosovo between 1999 and 2008. It is pretty f**king ridiculous to be honest, not to mention it is just confusing our readers. "Based on Declaration of Assembly of Albania, on October 21, 1991, in compliance with decision of Assembly of Kosovo, on February 17, 2008 for Declaration of Independence, based on the rights of people for self-determination, based on principle of good-neighbourhood relations, I will call tomorrow a Council of Ministers meeting to decide the establishment of diplomatic relations between Republic of Albania and Republic of Kosovo at Ambassador level." does not equal "de jure recognition since 1991". They are just recognising Kosovo for the same reason they did in 1991. I propose we get rid of the 1991 de jure bollocks as it is false and as it is confusing to our readers/ audience. IJA (talk) 16:30, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Never mind the audience, it confuses me too, and I like to think I understand the subject matter. I say that we take it out as well. Bazonka (talk) 16:42, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. Unless a RS can be found to support the claim that Albania de facto recognized since 1991, it should be removed. TDL (talk) 20:15, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I found a peer reviewed article in VANDERBILT JOURNAL OF TRANSNATIONAL LAW (which is definitely a RS) by Jure Vidmar Vol. 42:779 2009, but for some reason the link is blacklisted to the PDF. If you search "albanian recognition of kosovo 1991" on Google it should come up. (Blank link maybe because its linking through google docs?). See pages 789-790 (11-12 in the PDF). Quote: "On September 22, 1991, the underground parliament of Kosovo Albanians proclaimed the Resolution on Independence and Sovereignty of Kosovo. The decision was subsequently confirmed at an underground referendum held between September 26 and 30 of the same year. A reported 87% of the electorate voted in the referendum, and 99.87% of the votes cast were in favor of independence. Following the referendum, the underground parliament declared independence onOctober 19, 1991. Only Albania recognized Kosovo’s independence." That is backed up by this reference "JAMES CRAWFORD, THE CREATION OF STATES IN INTERNATIONAL LAW 408 (2d ed. 2006)." An offline source I don't have access to. Ravendrop 20:28, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

@ Ravendrop What is your point? IJA (talk) 21:56, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Apologies. I missed the 'since' above. I thought the very instance of Albania's recognition of Kosovo in 1991 was questioned. I reread through the article I cited, and while it doesn't outright state that Albania continued to support Kosovo it does somewhat hint at it, but the above is far more convincing. Ravendrop 01:50, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Totally unacceptable. Tirana had recognised Kosovo on 21 October 1991, after the referendum (Kosovan independence referendum, 1991). This is the fact. I think other discussion are illogical. Why should we have double standard? Sudan recognized South Sudan 1 day prior to independence. (See Chronology of diplomatic recognitions and relations of South Sudan) In political diplomacy Albanian recognition of Kosovo and Sudan recognition of South Sudan prior to DOI are particular historical and political decision. Irvi Hyka 22:28, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

No one is disputing the fact that Albania recognized the Republic of Kosova as proclaimed in 1991. But how is this relevant to the Republic of Kosovo which declared it's independence nearly 2 decades later? They are 2 different states. We don't list states that recognized the Kingdom of Montenegro on Foreign relations of Montenegro, the recognition doesn't carry over. If they were the same state, why did they declare independence again in 2008? TDL (talk) 23:24, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Exactly. Including references to the Republic of Kosova are illogical to this article. If the Albanian recognition from 1991 applies to the current Republic of Kosovo, then why would Albania recognise it a second time in 2008?Konchevnik81 (talk) 02:40, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

I totally agree. As Konchevnik81 said earlier, this would be better in the Albania - Kosovo relations article. Bazonka (talk) 07:28, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't accept the elimination of the reference about the Albanian recognition. Is unacceptable. Republic of Kosovo is a continuity of Republic of Kosova. It is simply chronological order of the history: Autonomous Province of Kosovo i Metohija (dispute status), Republic of Kosova under Ibrahim Rugova, Kosovo War, UMNIK Kosovo, Republic of Kosovo. Albania today for example is the continuity of Albanian Kingdom, Albania under Italy (lost Independence)...People's and after also Socialist Republic of Albania. Swiss according this verbal note [1] had recognizable Albania in 1922, Albania lost its Independence in 1939, but Swiss don't re sent an other verbal note. What it is? Switzerland does not recognize Albania?! :) or Sudan for example recognized South Sudan 1 day prior the DOI. Now, with your arguments I can go in the article Chronology of diplomatic recognitions and relations of South Sudan and to pretend than Sudan never recognized South Sudan. Unacceptable. Other fact for example, in the web page of the presidency of Kosovo (Republic of Kosovo) is listed Ibrahim Rugova as former president [2]. Why? Other facts are the laws of the Parliament of Kosovo approved prior to 2008 according your arguments are nullus, all laws approved during the Republic of Kosova or Uminik Kosovo are in force also for the Republic of Kosovo. It is for this that I have say that de jure Kosovo declared the Independence not from Serbia, but from UMNIK chronological order of history. Albanian recognition happened in 1991, in 2008 only the decision to to accredit an ambassador. Irvi Hyka 12:11, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm happy with your latest change, moving this information into the notes section. Bazonka (talk) 13:04, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

@Irvi: With respect, it appears that you are the one taking an unacceptable position. You have contributed greatly to this article, and I commend you for that. Nevertheless, you take a very maximalist approach to what needs to be included in this article. Your counterexamples are not relevant: an invasion of Albania by Italy in 1939 was not an internationally legitimate act, and the monarch of Albania opposed it in exile. This is very different from the Republic of Kosova voluntarily dissolving its institutions in order to implement UNMIK and JIAS. I'm not even really sure what your point with South Sudan is. And no, pre-2008 laws are not nullus, much as Ottoman and British law is still partially used in Israel. Regardless, that has precious little to do with the subject of this article, which is the recognition of the February 2008 declaration of independence.

If you really want to include this reference, then you will need to make corrections to the Albania - Kosovo relations article, because what you are saying flatly contradicts what is written there: ie that Albania recognized the Republic of Kosova in 1992 and withdrew that recognition in 1994. That fact has a cited reference. What you are claiming seems to be original research. If you want to include this information, then please provide a reference where the government of Albania states it has always recognized an independent Kosovo since 1991.Konchevnik81 (talk) 14:28, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

OK, I see where the info is now, and like Bazonka says I think what the note says is fine. However, the declaration in English clearly does more than just send an ambassador to Kosovo. Albania is using its 1991 recognition of the Republic of Kosova as a precedent for doing the same with the post-February 2008 Republic of Kosovo. So that much is a little misleading. But I'm not going to quibble about footnotes.Konchevnik81 (talk) 00:10, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Serbia will recognise Abkhazia and South Ossetia, territoral integrity?

The new President of Serbia (elect) Mr. Tomislav Nikolić visits Russia. The Serbian parliament looks set to consider formal recognition of the newly-independent republics of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. In an interview with the Voice of Russia the country’s President-elect Tomislav Nikolic dismissed any comparison between the sovereign status of these two South Caucasus republics and that of Kosovo. During a meeting with Russian Presidnet Vladimir Putin, Nikolic reiterated Serbia's uncompromising stance on Kosovo even if it hampered its bid to join the EU.Voice of Russia

Georgia's reaction Georgia aims to avoid Serbian recognition of breakaway republics.[3]

This news have a great interest. If Serbia according the news of Voice of Russia will recognise Abkhazia and South Ossetia comes out every argument sesns of so called "territoral integrity". Irvi Hyka (talk) 15:42, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

If Serbia does recognise Abkhazia and South Ossetia, then I wouldn't be at all surprised if Georgia recognises Kosovo in retaliation. Bazonka (talk) 16:18, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

@Bazonka Georgia more likely in the case of recogniting the breakaway regions of Georgia suspends diplomatic relations with Serbia. Georgia has so far reacted similary to the PRC's One China Policy. However recognition of Tsinisvali and Suhhumi separists is likely to cost Serbia's EU membership perspective as the EU is for territorial integrity of Georgia. --Juhan 19:57, 29 May 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Juhan (talk • contribs)

After Nikolic swear maybe something will change. According the news from some media Putin "gift" Serbia $800 million, I believe if Belgrade will recognise Abkhazia and South Ossetia their argument about a so called "territoral integrity" will not have most sense.The Moscow Times Nikolic also said in Russia that for the recognition of Kosovo by Serbia will happen only through a referendum.[4] Irvi Hyka (talk) 00:08, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

The Republic of Chad recognizes Kosovo

The MFA of Kosovo has announced that Chad recognizes Kosovo. [5] The source is in Albanian, but they usually issue English version releases in a day or two. --alchaemia (talk) 19:33, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Problem with the map. Chad isn't stained. Irvi Hyka (talk) 16:13, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Seems to be "stained" now. Bazonka (talk) 18:19, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Probably just a problem on my end, but Chad is not showing up colored when the map is used on the article but is colored when I open the map image. --Khajidha (talk) 08:25, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

I think it's a problem with caching. It'll probably sort itself out in a day or two. It works for me though. Bazonka (talk) 09:01, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Small legal problem

Countries that do recognoize Kosovo have previously recognoized Serbia with Kosovo after Balkan Wars and First world war, again when Yugoslavia was internationally left to go (The Arbitration Commission of the Conference on Yugoslavia (commonly known as Badinter Arbitration Committee)and again when Serbia and Montenegro dissolved.

This means legally that they should undo the previous recognition and brake relations with Serbia.

How can countries do both? In return, Serbia should start recognoizing Corsica, Quebec, Northern Ireland, Texas etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rastavox (talk • contribs) 16:53, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

These countries still recognise Serbia as a sovereign nation, just with a smaller territory. Using one of your hypothetical examples, if a country were to recognise Quebec as a sovereign nation, then that wouldn't mean that it stopped recognising Canada's sovereignty over Ontario etc. Bazonka (talk) 16:58, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Well it does violate its souverinity since (in this case Serbia) claims souverenity over its territory. Once the Serbia recognoizes Kosovo, rest of the countries that recognoize Serbia should follow.

Because if it is as you say, then smaller fragmentation is allowed. E.g. Serbia should recognoize Kosovo and at the same Serbs should declare of Republic of Nothern Kosovo under same claims (human rights, rights to self determination etc. and Serbia coild recognoize it, too ...

Its not that common in international practice, but countries that have recognoized you under international borders should not recgnoize parts of that country as independent state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rastavox (talk • contribs) 17:59, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

States can do as they please. It's not illegal to recognize a state created by secession. The ICJ ruled that secession itself was not illegal and thus Kosovo had not broken international law by its act of secession. The United States recognized Kosovo immediately. That does not mean the US ceased to recognize Serbia or that any rupture in relations occured. It means that the US recognized Kosovo as a state and no longer considered it to be a part of Serbia. Recognition of secessionist entities is not uncommon. It's up to the international community as to whether to accept the claimed state or not and it is equally up to the state that was seceeded from to decide how to react to recognitions. Georgia has opted to sever diplomatic relations with any state that recognizes Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Serbia's initial response was to recall ambassadors. Claiming it violates sovereignty is ultimately a matter of opinion, and it's something you could argue ad infinitum. The Serbs in northern Kosovo could declare their own state and Serbia could recognize it and make it a new province or add it to an existing one. I doubt that many other states would accept this. States must take their own interests into account in evaluating such actions - it has little to do with "right" and "wrong." - Canadian Bobby (talk) 00:21, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

But Serbia could not recognise a North Kosovo state without acknowledging that Kosovo is not sovereign Serbian territory, which it is unlikely to do. As far as Belgrade is concerned, North Kosovo is Serbia. Bazonka (talk) 08:28, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

What I meant is that north Kosovo could declare it's no longer part of Kosovo and Serbia could accept it as a new administrative unit or assign it to one that already exists within Serbia. - Canadian Bobby (talk) 14:08, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree with what both Bazonka and Canadian Bobby have to say. Just because a state recognises State X doesn't mean that it no longer recognise state Y, which State X declared independence fro,. However I must also state that Wikipedia is not the place for the issues which Rastavox raised per WP:NOTAFORUM. IJA (talk) 22:51, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Formal bilateral recognitions and de facto recognitions

Two edits referring to the vote for Kosovo's IMF membership have been rejected (by Kajidha and Bazonka), as not worth being in the lead. I would be happy with this but it is difficult to see where else in the article one can put the basic fact that formal acts of bilateral recognition are not the only measure of recognition, without making the article intolerably long. The focus of both the Serbian and Kosovo governments on such formal acts has obscured this.

[Some of] the basic facts are these.

Some countries have a policy of not making formal bilateral acts of recognition. Usually they recognise de facto, by voting for a new state to enter the UN or another international organisation whose membership is limited to States. Other countries may not have recognised Kosovo either because they do not see the need to take any position, or simply because an act of formal recognition requires a bureaucratic process (say, agreement by the Head of State) which takes time for their small diplomatic --79.126.152.70 (talk) 08:26, 11 June 2012 (UTC)services and the Head of State which is simply way down their list of priorities. Thus Montenegro has fewer formal bilateral acts of recognition than Kosovo, despite - or because of - the fact that it is a member of the UN and that its separation from Serbia, two years before Kosovo's declaration of independence, was not contested by Serbia.

The IMF vote for Kosovo's membership as a "seceding state" saw 98 votes cast for Kosovo, several more than states which have issued formal acts of bilateral recognition. In 2009, a US statement to the International Court of Justice claimed that the IMF vote, plus those who had formally recognised, totaled over 115 countries. (One should be careful; the IMF voting breakdown was not published, although one can get details of how countries voted from a Wikileaks version of a State Department cable; and South Africa, whose Foreign Ministry says it will not recognise Kosovo, is recorded as voting for Kosovo's membership - probably because the Finance Minister took a different view and did not tell his Foreign Ministry colleagues how he was voting. This is probably a unique case). --Markd999 (talk) 20:28, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

The IMF is just one of many organisations and voting in the IMF doesn't directly/explicitly mean or refer to recognition. Greece voted in favour of Kosovo joining the IMF, will they recognise Kosovo in the intermediate future? Will they hell! They just believe the people of Kosovo can better themselves with IMF assistance and they think Greece will be more likely to get economic assistance from voting in favour others as we all now know Greece has a poor economy. Nothing to do with recognition, hence why the IMF isn't in the introduction of this article. IJA (talk) 23:02, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Greece in fact voted against. The specific basis on which the vote was held was whether Kosovo should be admitted "as a seceding state". Any vote for membership was therefore an acceptance that Kosovo was a state, in other words recognition. There are admittedly some international organisations (such as the WTO) where statehood is not a criterion for membership, but this is not the case for the IMF.--79.126.152.70 (talk) 08:26, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

End of the day a Country could not recognise Kosovo and vote yes (which obviously happened due to the voting majority) and a country could vote no even if they do recognise Kosovo meaning that the IMF Vote means SWEET FA when it comes to recognition. IJA (talk) 22:05, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

By this line of reason, "partially recognised states" becomes a meaningless term. If only a formal bilateral act of recognition is counted, then almost every state is a "partially recognised state". Montenegro has fewer formal bilateral recognitions than Kosovo, because in international law and practice a vote for a country's membership in an international organisation restricted to states is considered an act of recognition. Some countries have a policy of not making formal bilateral acts of recognition (New Zealand, for example, although in Kosovo's case it eventually waived this policy). I will not push further for my proposed change, but largely because the IMF vote was not intended to be public. --Markd999 (talk) 15:23, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Mohamed Morsi: Egypt will recognize Kosovo

Mohamed Morsi, the main presidential candidate in Egypt promises to recognize Kosovo. In the 1st round of Egyptian presidential election, 2012 won 24.78% of votes and resulted first. Morsi gained the highest percentage of votes, and in the second round, his rival will be Ahmed Shafiq, the last Prime Minister of Hosni Mubarak. Morsi is also the leader Freedom and Justice Party (Egypt) strong links to the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt, the largest and best-organized political group in Egypt.

Mohamed Morsi meet Beqir Ismaili, external adviser of Minister Enver Hoxhaj. Morsi stated that the Egyptian people stated he supports the freedom of the people of Kosovo and appreciated its sacrifices for freedom and independence. He stated that the Egyptian nation has always supported the independence of Kosovo and if he were to be elected President, the decision to recognize Kosovo will follow very soon. He also expressed interest in furthering ties between the two countries, in particular now after the fall of Mubarak from power.

Even in another visit to Cairo of Kosovo’s Minister Hoxhaj where he met the Egyptian presidential candidate, the latter had also promised at the time to recognize Kosovo if he would win the presidential bid. MFA of Kosovo Irvi Hyka (talk) 17:44, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

But till adoption of the new constitution, is unclear who will be responsible on the recognition - the president or the parliament. Aotearoa (talk) 15:54, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

He is only a presidential candidate, not president. Therefore he is not yet qualified to speak on behalf of the country. I don't know if we should include this in the article. Bazonka (talk) 16:16, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

@Aotearoa. The party of Morosi Freedom and Justice Party (Egypt) and the coalition Democratic Alliance for Egypt won in last election Egyptian Shura Council election, 2012 (the upper house) and Egyptian parliamentary election, 2011–2012. Morosi's party have now in the People's Assembly 217 / 498, Shura Council 105 / 180, Constituent Assembly 16 / 39. The coalition of Morosi (including his party) have in the People's Assembly 235 / 508, Shura Council 105 / 180, Constituent Assembly 17 / 39. @Bazonka in analogy in your country the leader of the main party in parliament haven't an importance. Irvi Hyka (talk) 21:07, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

It is still entirely possible that his rival Shafiq could win. It will not be long- let us just wait until the second round is complete. --Yalens (talk) 19:13, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Even if he does win I'm sure he has more important things to deal with first. I don't think there is much we can with this information at the moment. IJA (talk) 15:56, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Serbia to open its diplomatic office in Republic of Kosovo

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2012&mm=06&dd=19&nav_id=80830 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.235.202.44 (talk) 09:38, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

What the news article actually presents is a second-hand claim based on “unofficial sources” that EU suggested to ask Serbia to open its representative office in Prishtina in the course of ongoing negotiations. There is nothing which would imply that the office would be diplomatic, or that this condition will be actually part of the final EU/Serbia deal, let alone that Serbia already decided to open the office. IOW, it has no relevance to this article.—Emil J. 10:24, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Here you from horses mouth: I will never be president of government in Pristina. Serbia President is preparing. http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Politika/332487/Nikolic-Mislim-da-vise-nikada-necu-biti-predsednik-u-Pristini/komentari#ostali — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.235.202.44 (talk) 12:54, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Kosovo set to join OIC

During the official visit in Saudi Arabia (Jeddah, Mecca and Riyadh) Kosovo's Prime Minister Hashim Thaçi dhe DPM Behgejte Pacolli met the King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia and the Secretary-General of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) Ekmeleddin İhsanoğlu. According to the news agency "MENA-FN" from the Middle East, Secretary-General of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) Ihsanoglu has welcomed the application tabled by the Republic of Kosovo to become an official and permanent member of the organization. He told the visiting Prime Minister Hashim Thaçi following a meeting Saturday in Jeddah that the OIC had since 1996 supported Kosovo's right for independence. "Kosovo suffered a lot from injustice and repression under an administration that did not care for the political, religious and cultural rights of the people of the country. Now, after independence and the recognition of 91 countries including 30 OIC members, the organization looks forward to Kosovo soon becoming a member of the UN and the OIC," he said.

Thaçi, on his part, appreciated the continued support of the OIC to his country until it gained independence and said he discussed with the secretary-general all the available means of further consolidating cooperation between Kosovo and the 57 OIC member countries. Thaçi said the policies of his country, with more than 95 percent of its population Muslims, were in conformity with the general political stances of the Muslim countries.[6] [7]

but the official website of the government of Kosovo not mention the memberships [8]...???

Please sign your comments. Kosovo isn't set to join, Kosovo has applied to join; big difference. Yes the Sec-Gen may have welcomed Kosovo's application, but it doesn't mean the non-recognising countries will allow Kosovo's membership. Don't forget Russia's buddies in Central Asia. Pakistan blocked India from joining, a country could easily block Kosovo from joining too. For the time being I suggest we add to the OIC section that Kosovo has applied to become a full member. IJA (talk) 16:38, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

This Telegrafi story quotes Hoxhaj as saying that Kosovo did not apply for membership [9]. - Canadian Bobby (talk) 18:26, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

I've removed the text about the OIC membership application from the article. Bazonka (talk) 18:42, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Why removed the information about the OIC membership? Artan Behrami, adviser of Minister Hoxhaj (not Hoxhaj) said that Kosovo will apply for membership but in the status of OIC must be UN member. This isn't true because Palestine isn't member of UN, but is member of OIC. fo me Kosovars gov are find excuses. Kosovo will be member of OIC after the membership at UN, this is the position of Prishtina in 2009 declared by President Famir Sejdiu then[10]. Justifications, KS like OIC recognition, investment but for the membership other idea...??? Irvi Hyka (talk) 21:56, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Syrian National Council recognised Kosovo

Syrian National Council or Syrian opposition officially invited the Republic of Kosovo (Minister of Foreign Affairs Enver Hoxhaj) in the meeting of Friends of Syria Group [11] [12]. Syrian National Council is not simple opposition but by some countries is recognised as the legitimate representative of the Syrian people. Seeing the article International recognition of the Syrian National Council, noted that Libya, France, Spain, United States, United Kingdom, Egypt, Albania and Kosovo recognised SNC as the legitimate representative of the Syrian people and other countries have informal relation with SNC. SNC except international recognition has control in one part of the territory.

I propose to restore the information on the invitation they have given to Kosovo as a de facto recognition of Kosovo by Syrian National Council. Irvi Hyka (talk) 17:21, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

While beside states that have recognized Kosovo simply note the fact, beside those that do not there is often extensive details. The justification, I presume, is that it allows users to assess for themselves how likely it is for that state to recognize Kosovo in future. When a regime is as shaky as that of Asad the views of the alternative are clearly important. Hence I support restoring that information.Dejvid (talk) 15:59, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

That seems reasonable to me, but we have a new neutrality problem: We must try not to misrepresent the situation in Syria, or pretend that some spokesperson has stronger official backing than they claim, &c. I would also suggest that we keep such things short; the important thing is the statement of support rather than the exact wording &c. bobrayner (talk) 16:07, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Or we could just wait a few weeks until the SNC is in full control... Bazonka (talk) 16:18, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

While I support mentioning the position of the Syrian opposition, I'm not sure this particular item is notable enough. I see no mention of the SNC recognizing Kosovo the the sources. All I see is that Kosovo attended a meeting of the Friends of Syria Group. Were they invited by the SNC? Does the SNC have control over who attends? Otherwise, I don't see how the info is relevant. TDL (talk) 18:12, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Isn't there something called recentism in WP? Why don't we simply leave Syria alone, until there is a new government in Damascus? Who knows when (maybe tomorrow maybe in weeks or months to come)... --E4024 (talk) 18:17, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree. The SNC is not a government, least of all because it controls very little of Syria. The last I had read was that it sits in Istanbul. When and if it constitutes the government of Syria, then it can recognize anybody it wants. - Canadian Bobby (talk) 18:47, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

But we could still put it under the "other actors" section, right?--Yalens (talk) 22:19, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

@TDL The official of SNC led by Ammar Abdulhamid visited Kosovo in April 2012. MFA link SNC representatives said that Kosovo is a state and Damascus will recognise Pristina in the first day of the triumph of democracy (For SNC Kosovo is a state). SNC is an entity recognized by many countries as the only legitimate representative of the Syrian people (including 3 permanent member of UNSC). Russia recently accused Kosovo that is training the Syrian revolutionaries. [13] [14] The relations between Kosovo and SNC are friendly. Irvi Hyka (talk) 14:25, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

I think you are mischaracterizing the International recognition of the Syrian National Council. According to that article, only Libya recognizes the SNC as the *only* legitimate representative in Syria. The three UNSC permanent members that you refer to only state that the SNC is a legitimate opposition movement. That doesn't mean that they recognize it as the legitimate government of Syria - the Embassy of Syria in Washington, D.C. and the Embassy of Syria in London still seem to be under the control of the Assad government, even if diplomatic relations have been frozen. So maybe a mention under "Other actors" as Yalens said, but otherwise the SNC is not a country or even a widely-recognized national government (it has about as much international recognition as Northern Cyprus, and technically even less than, say, Abkhasia or Transnistria).Konchevnik81 (talk) 17:06, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Whatever relations (as can be had by the SNC) between the Syrian National Council and Kosovo, the SNC is NOT a sovereign nation-state entity, government-in-exile, or a government in control of part of any country. The SNC could be compared to the Libyan Transitional National Council in the opening days of that nation's civil war; but currently it does not directly control any territory in Syria, nor is based inside Syria (unlike the NTC which was in Benghazi). Certainly it is recognized by some nations as a "partner for dialogue" or an opposition group with which to hold talks with (even China and Russia have at least met with SNC delegations at high levels), but only Libya recognizes them as a government. Worth a mention somewhere here separately from the Syria entry, which should be the Assad reaction (until the time where/when/if the Assad era ends). Where the SNC should go is up to debate. It's not secessionist movement, nor a government-in-exile (The SNC has denied that they want to be classified as such, and usually a gov-in-exile is a group that has been kicked OUT of power, not a whole new group seeking power). It surely is a resistance movement. It fits as a non-state actor. But where to classify them in the context of this article? And certainly we should not bloat this too much either. Ajbenj (talk) 13:23, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

While the SNC controls little territory, so long as it controls some populated territory outright it can be considered a soveriegn state under some definitions. The key to recognition is either a statement giving recognition, signing a treaty or other official diplomatic document that treats the polity on an even footing in terms of sovergiegnty between signatories, or the acceditation of diplomatic personel (consuls and ambassodors). Whether a states government is based in its own territory is not relevent to its legitimacy, there have been several states throughout history that have had their seats of government outside of the territory of the state, Lichtenstein for instance.XavierGreen (talk) 23:53, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia in the article about Syria, has removed the flag of Assad as the flag of Syria. In the Template:Politics of Syria, the article Politics of Syria changed the flag accepting the new dispute government in Syria. In the article Flag of Syria, the SNC flag replace Ba'atist flag.

Free Syrian Army and Syrian Liberation Army (SNC army) control a large part of territory, including part of national capital Damascus, Aleppo the largest city in Syria.

International recognition of SNC
1 UN member (Libya) recognised SNC as legitimate authority
+2 UN member and 1 UN non-Member (Spain, Albania and Kosovo) recognised SNC as representative of Syrian people
+2 UN member (UK and US) recognised SNC as legitimate representative of Syrian (not an opposition) See the declaration of Clinton [15] and Huge [16]
=6 states recognised SNC
10 UN member (Turkey, Tunisia, Italy, Bulgaria, Canada, Netherlands, Germany, Qatar, Australia and Austria) reject Assad government

Only Egypt and France recognise SNC as an opposition group or interlocutor.

No double standard for Syria, if in the main article about Syria is reflected the SNC we must take into consideration that, not to ignore SNC. Irvi Hyka (talk) 13:30, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

The SNC is not recognised by the United Nations. We therefore cannot mention it in the UN Member States section. Bazonka (talk) 18:01, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I havent seen any evidence that any state other than Libya has recognized the SNC as Syria. Being recognized as the legitimate government of a state, or having its diplomatic personel accredited instead of that of the assad regime are the only means which matter hear. Being recognized as a belligerent or as a representative of the people does not equate to being recognized as a soveriegn polity.XavierGreen (talk) 17:45, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Not to get into the weeds too much here, but I think it's worth pointing out that the Syrian National Council is not the same thing as the Free Syrian Army. The former is a political opposition group based in Istanbul, and the latter is a military organization comprised of Syrian army defectors that is engaging in the actual combat in Syria. The two organizations were formed separately, and have a complicated relationship with each other. So to be perfectly honest, it is not correct to even say that the SNC controls any territory or population in Syria: the FSA does.

I actually think the SNC info should be merged into the Syria infobox. As it stands, it is currently a bigger entry than the regular one for Syria, including (in my opinion) a completely irrelevant discussion of what the SNC is. It's definitely not an autonomy or secessionist movement, so probably the SNC info doesn't belong there. It also hasn't actually recognized Kosovo; it has just promised to do so *if* it forms a new Syrian government. Kosovo attended the Friends of Syria conference, but again, as this article is about the official diplomatic recognition of Kosovo, that information is largely irrelevant to this article. Keep the SNC promise if you must, cut the rest of the info and merge it into the Syria box.Konchevnik81 (talk) 15:12, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Agreed with everything Konchevnik81 has said. The sources don't even support the claim that the SNC invited Kosovo to the FoS conference. It was organized by Kosovo-recognizing states, so Kosovo was likely invited by them. Either way, I don't see how it's relevant to the scope of the article. I do agree that the promise of recognition should be kept. I'll revert to the stable version. TDL (talk) 18:32, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Israel will soon recognise Kosovo independence

The Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of Israel, Danny Ayalon said that the Government of Israel is considering the possibility of recognising Kosovo's independence. He said that recognising the new state of Kosovo by Israel will be not later than next year. [17] [18] Irvi Hyka (talk) 22:35, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I've added a blurb about this. TDL (talk) 22:29, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Two countries recognise Kosovo

According the media in Prishtina, informal references by MFA tell that two countries recognise Kosovo. The Togolese Republic and Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia made a decision to recognise the declaration of independence of Kosovo. The verbal note of both countries are in process, but the respective government decisions have been taken. What to do? [19] [20][21] Irvi Hyka (talk) 17:55, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

It's certainly worth noting in their entries, but I don't think we should move them until the MFA announces them. TDL (talk) 21:46, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Do nothing until there is official confirmation. Otherwise, we're spreading media rumours. - Canadian Bobby (talk) 21:09, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Koha Ditore and most other major newspapers of Kosovo haven't published anything on the matter, so we'd better not add the events until official confirmation.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 21:18, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Ethiopia and Togo have both said they will recognize. Kthimi në Shqipëri (talk) 09:34, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

They can say it as much as they please, but until it's in writing it means nothing. - Canadian Bobby (talk) 20:19, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Unnecessary Addition

This one. The FM of the RoC declares that they will not recognise Kosovo but they will support its EU integration. Absurd. I would delete it outright but there already is a "beginning" of a kind of edit war there. So I propose to remove that declaration which really does not contribute anything to the article... --E4024 (talk) 20:52, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

At the very least I don't see why we need to say the same thing several times. TDL (talk) 22:16, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Dan. And the IBRD membership has nothing to do with this. I heard that they are even planning to send an Hon. Consul to Belgrad... --E4024 (talk) 17:24, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

See Greece's reaction to the 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence. No double standard, in Greek position is also mentioned that will vote FOR Kosovo's membership on European Bank for Reconstruction and Development. Irvi Hyka (talk) 19:44, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Please see WP:OTHERCRAP. Just because it's mentioned somewhere else doesn't mean we should mention it here. Also, in the case of Kazakhstan, the source doesn't say they supported their membership in the IBRD, it just says they'll think about it. That's not notable. TDL (talk) 20:26, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Consul in Thailand

This week, the DPM of Kosovo, Behgjet Pacolli, proposed 6 consuls of Kosovo in different countries. In the list of Pacolli approved by MFA is also a consul of Kosovo to the Kingdom of Thailand, Ms Mom Luang Rajadasari Jayankura. We know that officially Thailand don't recognise Kosovo. Is that possible? (Accredit a consul in a country that don't recognised the DOI; How will be handed over credentials to the King of Thailand?) [22] Irvi Hyka (talk) 19:08, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

This person would be an honorary consul. Typically, the states in question do have at least consular relations, if not diplomatic. They do not present credentials. The ministry of foreign affairs of the receiving state issues them an exequatur, which authorises them to perform consular functions. - Canadian Bobby (talk) 02:31, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Northern Cyprus/TRNC and Taiwan/ROC have Consulates/ Representative Offices in the UK yet we don't recognise them. Kosovo already has a representative office in Greece without Greek recognition. IJA (talk) 22:18, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I imagine that all they are really doing is renting an office room somewhere in the country and paying someone to staff it. It is possible to do this nearly anywhere. The issue here isn't whether Kosovo can open such an office, but whether the Thais recognise it as a consulate or not. Bazonka (talk) 07:09, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't even have to be a rented office. I know of one country whose consular presence in the UK seems to be a UK national, working from home. (In this case the main problem isn't recognition; it's that the country is poor and cannot afford to send ambassadors all over the world). Whether or not somebody at a desk is putting stamps in passports &c (something which doesn't actually involve routine contact with the host country's MFA) is rather separate from the question of formal recognition at a national level. bobrayner (talk) 10:12, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Republic of Mali

Gazeta Express reports that Kosovo today is recognized by Republic of Mali. Someone should add. Digitalpaper (talk) 14:31, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

All the Kosovar media are reporting it. I added it. I'm sure the Foreign Ministry will have it up next week and we can refine anything that requires it, such as the date of recognition. I do not know how to change the "as of" and the statistical coding. Maybe User:IJA would be so kind? - Canadian Bobby (talk) 15:01, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

I've updated it. For future reference, this is changed by amending Template:Numrec/Kos. Bazonka (talk) 16:35, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Danke! - Canadian Bobby (talk) 17:51, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Here's the Note Verbale if we want to use it as the reference [23]. - Canadian Bobby (talk) 20:44, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Kosovo MFA confirms it: [24] Mali is on the list. --Juhan 17:55, 22 August 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Juhan (talk • contribs)

Strange, now it is gone from the list. --90.190.188.77 (talk) 11:07, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't worry about it. The note verbale shows that it's definitely happened. Bazonka (talk) 17:07, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Mali didn't recognise Kosovo, it is a fake letter according to Mali's President. He is very clear that Mali didn't recognise Kosovo. [25] IJA (talk) 11:01, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

The President will "punish the authors". I think we should hurry to add his words... --E4024 (talk) 11:21, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I rushed here to post this same link but apparently someone else did so before me. Still: don't forget it's a Chinese website and China is opposed to Kosovo's independence, so maybe it would be better to wait for another source. I've been looking for this supposed statement of Mali's President and I didn't find it on the official Presidency website. But something else is strange: I am French and when I read the supposed note verbale, I was surprised that it was written in such a bad French, with several quite basic grammatical errors. I find it hard to believe a President of a French-speaking country writes so badly. Anyway: we don't know if the document is authentic yet, so my opinion is, wait and see. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.158.219.121 (talk) 12:34, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

The Global Times of China is the only source reporting the story. It's up to you guys if you want to take Mali off the list or not. I would support removing it until the MFA confirms it. - Canadian Bobby (talk) 12:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

No, it's not the only source: several Chinese media do so, and media from other countries are quoting them. You can find it if you search for "Kosovo Mali" in Google News. Anyway, as China is against Kosovo I'm not sure if this sort of information is reliable - but keep in mind what I said before: the note verbale looks fake to me. So, I suggest not taking it off the list but at least mentioning the controversy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.158.219.121 (talk) 12:58, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

We have had huge arguments in the past about listing countries and "mentioning the controversy." They always end in disaster, because there is never consensus on whether there should even be a notation and, if there is, how it should read. I would favour an all-or-nothing approach - either list Mali or do not. It would be nice to hear from Pacolli or the MFA on this. In the past, it would be the Serbian media quoting anonymous foreign officials or their own FM, Vuk Jeremic, saying they didn't recognise - I'm sure IJA and the other old-timers here remember Oman and Guinea-Bissau, in particular. We even had those saying the G-B Note looked fake because it was written in French and G-B's official language is Portuguese. This could be a new anti-Kosovo strategy or it could be fact and Mali did not recognize. My own suggestion would be to remove Mali from the list pending confirmation, but that's just my own opinion. We would have to achieve consensus in order to do this. - Canadian Bobby (talk) 13:23, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Oh joy, here we go again... Who knows what's really happened? We either need to list it in the recognisers list, with a comment that explains that there is doubt. Or we list it in the non-recognisers list, with a comment that explains that it may actually have recognised. Since we have no mechanism for us to add comments to the recognisers list, I think our only real option is to move it back to the non-recognisers. Also, because the Kosovo MFA no longer lists the recognition on their website, there is obviously some significant doubt over the authenticity of the note verbale. (I note that someone has already moved Mali from the recognisers list, but not re-added it to the non-recognisers list. I'll fix this.) Bazonka (talk) 19:24, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Pacolli is going back to Mali to receive clarification. [26] - Canadian Bobby (talk) 23:50, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

For those still curious, Pacolli has been posting on his facebook page about the Mali situation. To sum up, he insists the recognition was real and legitimate, but that there is a power struggle between the civilian leadership, which is very weak, and that of the military, which overthrew the last government in a coup. The civilian government extended recognition, but the military intervened and withdrew it. He does say, though that so far as he's concerned, the Note Verbale is still valid and the recognition is thusly valid, as there has been no official communication from the Malian government retracting the recognition. You can read all about it on his page [27] - Canadian Bobby (talk) 20:27, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm having second thoughts about this Mali non-recognition. Due to the attempted coup in Mali not so long ago, Mali consequently has two Presidents, a civilian elected President and a Military President. This article has conveniently "forgotten" to mention which President has stated this and hasn't mentioned any names. The civilian president recognised Kosovo whereas the military president hasn't. Both Presidents claim to be the legitimate President, but which President do you think is more credible in this power struggle? Pacolli has been to Mali since and the Civilian President will reconfirm the recognition of Kosovo by Mali. All other media which is reporting this same story are using www.globaltimes.cn as their reference point. IJA (talk) 17:19, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware Mali doesn't have two Presidents. The President at the time of the coup (Amadou Toumani Touré) was ousted and the military took control. However, in April an agreement was reached with the Military to return the country to constitutional rule. Touré agreed to resign and the civilian President of the National Assembly of Mali (Dioncounda Traoré) would serve as acting president until an election. Traoré (allegedly) signed the original document. However, the denial statement fails to mention any names and uses the phrase "The Presidency" as opposed to "The President".

It seems pretty obvious what's going on here. The military took control in a coup d'état because they were frustrated with the governments handling of the separatist rebellion, which shortly after the coup led to the declaration of independence by Azawad. Given their sensitivities to this separatist issue, it's hardly surprising that they would be opposed to recognizing Kosovo. Since the statement doesn't refer to Traoré, or even "The President", it seems likely that this is an attempt by the Military to discredit the actions of the constitutional government. Of course, this is all my OR speculation... TDL (talk) 18:14, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Hashim Thaçi is claiming that the recognition is legitimate: [28]. Also, similar confusion has surrounded Mali's request for ECOWAS military help, "heightening the perception that the soldiers who led the March coup — but were then pressured into handing power back to civilians — are still calling the shots." TDL (talk) 23:54, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Republic of Fiji

The MFA of Kosovo, Enver Hoxhaj, visits the Republic of Fiji. Hoxhaj meet with the Fiji's Foreign Minister Mr. Inoke Kubuabola. Kubuabola welcomed the first visit of the Foreign Minister of Kosovo in his country and said that the Government and people of Fiji have sympathy for the people of Kosovo, in response to the request of Hoxhaj to recognise and establish diplomatic relations with Kosovo. MFA of Kosovo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.78.77.230 (talk) 12:04, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Although the article is missing a Fiji entry, I'm not sure how much can really be used here. A little context for the visit is | here, | here and | here. Kosovo is attending a regional conference of mainly Pacific Island nations along with other invited development partners, including Kazakhstan (!). While it does say something about Kosovo's overall acceptance into the international community that it participates in such events, it's not really related to any specific events or efforts leading to new diplomatic recognitions, and even the quote from the MFA is pretty vague: it's not even a promise to think about recognition. Guam and the Northern Marianas are also invited participants to the conference, but that's not conferring any sort of diplomatic recognition to them either. The MFA page, from what I could see through the link, is just a photo opp.Konchevnik81 (talk) 14:29, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

The article also says that Kubuabola said that Fiji has a very positive attitude regarding the recognition of Kosovo, so I think there is something that we can use here. Although it's not especially informative, it's better than nothing. Bazonka (talk) 16:57, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

He also has a cool shirt. Bazonka (talk) 17:09, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

OK I'm seeing that quote now on the MFA site... I think it was getting scrambled earlier. And indeed, that is a cool shirt.Konchevnik81 (talk) 19:44, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

I wish I had a shirt like that... --E4024 (talk) 11:18, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

A question. You are talking about Hoxhaj's shirt or Kubuabola's shirt? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.78.77.230 (talk) 11:30, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

The short sleeves of course. (The other one is also beautiful but I already have a similar one.) Need my mail address? --E4024 (talk) 11:38, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Kubuabola's shirt is the best. Hoxhaj is just jumping on the snazzy shirt bandwagon. Bazonka (talk) 19:15, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Solomon Islands

The MFA of Kosovo, Enver Hoxhaj meet with the Minister for Foreign Affairs and External Trade of Solomon Islands, Mr. Clay Forau Soalaoi. Soalaoi, said that his country would consider such a request [recognition of the Republic of Kosovo], expressing strong sympathy for an independent and democratic Kosovo. MFA of Kosovo

Another cracking shirt from the Polynesians. Hoxhaj just can't compete. Bazonka (talk) 19:43, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Too bad Hoxhaj didn't use that opportunity to clear up whether Solomon Islands accepts Kosovar passports or not.Konchevnik81 (talk) 13:23, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

East Timor

The Minister of Foreign Affairs of the East Timor, José Luís Guterres said that people of his country always supported indestructible aspirations and will of Kosovo citizens to achieve their main goal, independence of Kosovo. "We have closely watched bitter past of Kosovo population as well as its suffering, and we also have very positive altitude about official recognition of independent Kosovo”, stressed Minister Guterres. MFA of Kosovo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.78.77.230 (talk) 15:05, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

A positive altitude? He must be high on something. I've added a few words. Bazonka (talk) 16:24, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Please stop giving comments like that. 79.243.220.136 (talk) 06:30, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

I am wholeheartedly sorry for making a joke based on an amusing spelling mistake. I can't promise it'll never happen again though. Bazonka (talk) 10:49, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I missunderstood. I thought you were referring to something else. 79.243.204.252 (talk) 11:37, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Bazonka, IMO your shirt jokes are better though... :-) --E4024 (talk) 11:42, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Guterres' shirt doesn't have as much flair. If this is still the same Pan-Pacific meeting, I have to say that the conference room that they did the photo op in has to be the most depressing office room in all of Fiji.

Back to the subject at hand, it always struck me as a little weird that East Timor has dragged its collective feet on Kosovo so long. Based on similar roads leading to independence you'd think they would have shown more solidarity. They even recognize the Sahrawi Democratic Republic in Western Sahara.Konchevnik81 (talk) 13:23, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

just a guess for why.--Yalens (talk) 17:31, 30 August 2012 (UTC)