Talk:Crime in Omaha, Nebraska

POV check

I collaborated with another editor to create this article, but we both share concerns that it is skewed, although from different perspectives. I would appreciate another editor's take on the page. – Freechild (¡!¡!¡!¡) 12:44, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Concerns about POV are warranted. I think there is too much attention given to individual incidents, especially when covered elsewhere,, and not enough about context. It's not the customary way the topic is treated. I've done some editing, but need to look at the whole thing. What led to the desire to have a separate article?--Parkwells (talk) 14:37, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it needs to be rewritten to establish a more neutral tone (material has been lifted directly from other articles and looks like that), and the photo of Willy Brown should be deleted. This is not an article about lynching or race riots, and he appears in both of those. One victim should not be elevated above all the others. There is a difference between vice crimes (early 1900s) and homicides and violence (more current issues, although there is no data for early years). The intro/lead should be more general. Crime reflects social issues, and that is only intermittently clear in this.--Parkwells (talk) 14:55, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, you're going quickly here. First, the idea for the article came from Crime in Chicago, and was first written here by User:Smmurphy. I wikified it a bit and moved it to the main space. You can read a complete dialog that prefaces the introduction of the article here. The simple fact of the matter for me is that I'm not committed enough to crime in Omaha to spend time researching the issue; however, I do think there is enough relevant information here to warrant an article. I will respond to your other topics individually. • Freechild'sup? 15:40, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

It's not my interest, either, but if it's going to appear, it needs to be fair. Can it just be deleted? I think one could make the case that since the city ranks so low in crime among major cities, it's not significant in the total scale of things. Since nationally it's in the bottom third of major cities (what is the population breakdown?), it's more notable for LACK OF CRIME. Maybe that's the NPOV we should bring out. To say it has crime next to small towns is almost meaningless.--Parkwells (talk) 16:38, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Table

I think the table should be moved down several spaces, as it deals with 2004. Unless there is some comparison with other cities, I'm not sure that it's useful. After having lived in Washington, DC and Philadelphia, 20 homicides does not sound significant, and 47th out of 68 major cities (2005) is a good ranking. The rest of the article seems to be trying to make the case that crime is a serious problem, and it is for the victims, but it has to be put in context. --Parkwells (talk) 15:24, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. • Freechild'sup? 15:40, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Lead

Have rewritten the lead along the lines I think it should take. THe part about the safety patrol can go lower in the article. This was probably started because of concern about vehicle traffic, not the kinds of concern about kids' safety from snatchers or drug pushers we have today.--Parkwells (talk) 15:24, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I have disproved the point about safety patrols in an article I wrote about safety patrols anyhow. I will vanish that comment if you haven't already. Good start on the lead: concise, practical and effective, as usual. • Freechild'sup? 15:43, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments - you are always encouraging. I do trust my writing and thinking skills and like putting them to work in collaborating with others - this also is a great learning opportunity. By the way, the "Safety patrol" article got redirected to "Security Guards", which to me is another class. Maybe in this context, if the article on Omaha stays, the Safety Patrol should be deleted.--Parkwells (talk) 17:22, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

--Parkwells (talk) 18:02, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Perpetrators and victims

There are two concerns - who is doing the crime and who are the victims? If both are confined to one group, you need to say so, as it affects how crime is perceived. From the statistics, there is much more rape and armed robbery than homicide. Where do they happen? Are all downtown citizens at risk? I think these issues are more significant than the space given to isolated homicides committed by police, however unfortunate, or by gangs against police. There isn't enough info given to understand or assess these. --Parkwells (talk) 15:29, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I haven't not researched the geographic distribution of crime in Omaha, and suspect that one of my initial concerns about this article might be answered by that type of examination. Omaha's media and politicians notoriously slander North Omaha and the city's African American community by portraying them as synonymous, and by portraying them as alternately violent, contemptuous, and/or incapable. I am sure that a breakdown of the distribution of crime throughout the city would prove otherwise. • Freechild'sup? 15:46, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

POV

Given the lack of law enforcement, there were probably other lynching victims in early Omaha. For NPOV it would be better to note lynchings as an early form of frontier "justice", and then to note the problems: discrimination against particular classes of victims: transients, outsiders (he came from a nearby town), and not just minorities.--Parkwells (talk) 15:56, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Change 1919 Race Riot to 20th Century Changes, or 20th Century

The race riot was an indicator, not the only thing about the 20th century. I've made some editing changes. I think more narrative could be reduced. You should add value of property damage, to the courthouse and other areas of the city, and effects of the riot which impacted the city's future. Those are more important in this context than recounting the details of the terrible day, which you've covered elsewhere.--Parkwells (talk) 16:34, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Range of crimes

Most people are concerned about violent crime, but the reference related to www.americanmafia.com (whic I think is rather iffy as a reference, doesn't appear to be a scholarly source with peer review) noted that in mid-20th century, Omaha was the center of illicit betting. That was probably a crime distributed around the city!--Parkwells (talk) 18:04, 19 December 2007 (UTC)