Talk:Billie Piper

Leiane Paul Piper?

Since when has her birth name had that spelling? Moreover, it ought to be noted somehow that Billie remains her 'real' name. I remember from Billie's early website [3]:

Q: Is Billie your real name?

A: Yes, my real name is Billie Piper. I was registered as Leanne for three weeks, but luckily my parents changed their minds!

-- Smjg 12:24, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

She said in her autobiography that it was 'Leanne'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.164.250.214 (talk) 19:08, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Verification

So it seems we need to verify the chart positions of Billie's singles and albums. All of Piper's UK discography and chart positions are found in a sidebar in the Doctor Who Magazine interview that I added to the References section, so that's OK. (The magazine says that the album Honey to the B made it to #14, but Honey to the B says it debuted at #1. Not sure which is correct, but I'm leaving the DWM citation on the page for now.) I haven't been able to find a source for the Australian and US chart positions, other than the Honey to the B and Walk of Life pages here on Wikipedia (and of course, I don't know where they got their info from). I don't know much about pop music, really, and I haven't noticed extensive footnoting on the discographies of other pop singers here on Wikipedia. Does anyone know what we need to do to meet the standard for verification, and how best to cite whatever we find? (For a bit I was writing "(Cook, 2006)" after each UK chart position, but that looked really dumb so I reverted it.) Help from anyone is welcome. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:02, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

If you researched on the net, you would actually find this information. I've added the bloody sources, ok? Sarz 09:30, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I'm not the one who put the "not verified" and "fact" tags on the page. Yamla was. I was just trying to respond responsibly. In fact, I did a fair bit of research, and found both online and print sources for the UK chart positions (and added both to the "References" section); it's the Australian ones I couldn't find. The Rage playlist site that you added isn't terribly helpful unless you happen to know the exact week that each of Billie's songs were on the playlist — even if you perform a detailed search, it gives a list of every time one of her songs was played on the show.

I'm not going to put the tags back on, though. You can argue with Yamla if he or she isn't satisfied. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 17:44, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm the one who added the tag. All information is meant to be cited and I must say, you (that is, those of you who are adding content, rather than people like me who make only minor corrections to this page) are doing a great job getting the citations in place. This page is already markedly improved. --Yamla 19:28, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Ok ok, sorry for snapping. I just had a rough day, and I'm sorry for taking it out on you.

I must admit, the Rage playlist isn't very helpful unless you do know what you're looking for. But it's the only reliable source I could find with those chart positions. :) Sarz 00:02, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

For the record

Her parents originally conceived of her name as Leiane Piper but changed it to her full name Billie PAUL Piper, as they were intent on boys. Billie may be questionable as to gender but definately NOT Paul!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.200.116.132 (talk • contribs) 19:41, April 4, 2006 (UTC)

I agree that "Paul" is hardly a feminine name, but we'd need an actual citation that that was Mandy and Paul Piper's reason for choosing a masculine-sounding name before putting it in the article. Maybe Billie's parents wanted to make some point about boys' and girls' names. Without a citation, we can't say that they chose the masculine-sounding name because they were "keen on boys". —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:57, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Paul Piper the actor

Numerous sources call him a builder, and while many actors take on casual work to support themselves, the only production IMDb (he's the only paul piper in there) has him in is some documenary about billie. So i think it's safe to edit that.Amo 11:58, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

If he's a builder, then I don't see that his occupation is worth mentioning in the article. ("Actor" was notable only because it suggested a family tradition.) I've removed the occupation entirely, and added Billie's mum's name. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 15:59, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Leanne vs. Leiane

I don't really understand what this means: "changed her given name from "Leanne" (originally Leiane) three weeks after registering her birth". So they called her Leanne, changed it to Leiane, and then billie?Amo 13:08, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

• I don't understand it either, although to me it looks like they first called her Leiane, then Leanne, then Billie. Can we get some verification of this? --Metropolitan90 14:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Well the source above is the only one i've ever found, and it says "Leanne", although as it was from a spoken interview it prob says more about the journalist - i mean, i doubt she spelled it out for them. Perhaps the alternate spelling was added to the article by someone to whom it is the normal spelling, or just possibly someone with a personal connection(?). Until the other one can be sourced, i'll change it back to Leanne. Amo 00:32, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Of course, as soon as we think we've resolved the issue, along comes this article from The Herald (Glasgow) which uses "Leiane". —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 07:21, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The name is recorded in the BMD Index as LEIAN PAUL PIPER Swindon Q4 1982, mother's maiden name KENT. (It is not unusual for a birth to be registered in the following quarter) --jmb 01:47, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Is this quoted online anywhere? There's a horrific (mostly unsigned) post war below about this, which would be settled by link to a quote of this BMD info. --Lexein (talk) 12:54, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Listing

I know that many fans of Billie's work in Doctor Who and others consider her a sex symbol. Should she be added to the list thereof?12.76.66.126 21:38, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

No, and especially not with a reliable citation. Wasn't the category deleted, anyway? --Yamla 21:49, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Height & weight

Height gotten from http://shillpages.com/dw/piperb.shtml and from http://www.celebritywonder.com/html/billiepiper.html and weight quote from http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/billie_piper.html Many other webpages also give the same information.

Please see WP:CITE for how to add citations. In general, sites like shillpages aren't reliable for citations but I happen to trust Shillpages and so this would work as a citation for me. I don't speak for everyone else, of course. --Yamla 21:05, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

"Height 'gotten'"? Is that American slang for 'obtained'? Or 'got'? Not sure what the 'ten' adds apart from putting poor spelling and grammar on display. Please learn to use a dictionary before contributing to an encyclopaedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.141.137 (talk) 00:53, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

You could of course check a dictionary yourself before claiming others have made mistake, may I suggest Wiktionary, the free dictionary? You might find the entry at wiktionary:gotten useful. Nanonic (talk) 01:00, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

The US web site, Wictionary, is hardly a reliable source for matters of the English language!

Bisexual actors

Not sure if it right that she is tagged as a bisexual actor in the categories. I know she has a quote in Gay Community News and she also mentioned on The Chris Moyles Show on 2nd June 2006 that she had kissed an actress in the film released today and finds women attractive, but doe this really make her a bisexual actress? Steve-Ho 10:07, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

• No. Skinmeister 00:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't use it to categorise her, but if you want to mention it in the article, you could link to bicurious. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Amoammo (talk • contribs) 00:14, June 4, 2006 (UTC)

Amended text in personal life section to reflect this link Steve-Ho 07:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

• What does a person have to do to come under the bisexual actors category then? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Leonardo2505 (talk • contribs) 07:51, June 6, 2006 (UTC)

Dating both men and women would presumably help. (And no, it doesn't have to be at the same time!) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 07:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the category again, and condensed the mention in "personal life" to something slightly more accurate. I've also removed the quote section, because a) it's on the Billie Piper wiktionary page, and b) it seems odd to have that be the only quotation from her. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:13, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

• She has declared, very openly, in very clear terms, her attraction to women - that is, her bisexuality. She doesn't need to have encounters. Many virgins are straight, many are bisexual, many are gay/lesbian. NerriTunn 18:31, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

• • If there's a category for bi-curious people, I think that would be more appropriate, since she's only stated an attraction. That is, she's expressed a bisexual orientation, but has not adopted (at least in public) a bisexual identity or demonstrated bisexual behaviour. Given that it's only one out of the three possible meanings of "bisexual", I think that based on the GCN quote alone it's more appropriate to keep her out of the category. (Unless there's more discussion of this in her autobiography?) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:38, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually I think this "bi-curious" idea is a creepy idea (you feel it is OK?) used to demean bisexuals. I don't know why you dragged it in unless you have some agenda. Perhaps you think bisexuality is abnormal and that is why you want to draw the category in abnormal terms (no one objects to other categories - but with bi/homosexuality they think it is a taint and are very eager to pander to bigots). Read what she said. And read the article on bisexuality - she is well within its parameters. NerriTunn 19:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Erm... if you knew me and my family you'd know that the suggestion that I think bisexuality is abnormal is laughable. I'm very supportive of LGBT rights, and have even protested in favor of gay marriage. If you look above, you'll see that I didn't suggest "bi-curious" — Amoammo did. I went with it simply because I thought that it was a more accurate and concise description of what she said in the interview: she is attracted to women, and "might" want to sleep with one.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other about "bi-curious", but I don't see it (or bisexuality) as "creepy". I see it as distinct from bisexuality, insofar as bisexuality is more a fixed identity ("this is who I am") and bi-curiosity (is that the right term?) is an expression of potential ("this is who I might be"). I also do not think either category has a "taint" — my sole interest is in accuracy, and keeping with the BLP policy.

To that end, I think we should go with Foxhill's compromise below. Aside from the question of bisexual vs. bi-curious, I hope that everyone can agree that if we incorporate the quote into the "personal life" section and have the link to wikiquote (both of which NerriTunn removed in reverting me) the "Quotes" section is redundant. NerriTunn, if you want to change the wording of the "personal life" section again, please don't revert the other changes (such as the wikiquote link or the smaller reference section) — just edit the "personal life" section alone. Thanks. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:44, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

If this is causing so much strife, why don't you just replace the line "She has also stated that she is bisexual but has yet to have sex with a woman." and say "in an interview with the Gay Community News in 2006, she spoke of her attraction to members of her own sex stating 'Yeah, I fancy women big time... I check them out more than I check men out.' " reference it and job done. Both bisexual and bi-curious are disputed terms in many fields so if they cause friction between editors, why not just not use them. The quote gives her position on the matter, she herself hasn't stated implicitly whether she is one or the other, so there is no need to try to interpret the source, just say what you see. And remember to keep Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons in mind, if you label her bisexual or bi-curious with nothing to back you up and she gets all lawsuit happy, it's your problem - Foxhill 20:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

If we go with this, then the only question is whether to include Category:Bisexual English actors or not. I'll put it back in now, in the interests of compromise, but I think we should discuss the matter further. I'll also ask for opinions at Wikipedia talk:Categorization/Gender, race and sexuality, to see whether there's a precedent for cases like this (where an individual has made statements suggesting a sexual orientation, but not used the term themselves). —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:44, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

The closest thing I can think of to an actual precedent for a case like this pertained to Kristanna Loken, an actress who stated in an interview that she was attracted to and had dated both men and women, but her categorization as a bisexual actor was disputed on the basis that she hadn't actually used the specific word "bisexual". That's not exactly analogous to this case, true, but it's the closest there is to a similar precedent, as far as I know...and as of today, the bisexual actors category is present on her article.

For what it's worth, I can see and understand both sides of this matter. Certainly it's appropriate to include her quote in the article, but be aware that it is problematic to extrapolate an identity from a statement of this type. It can certainly point toward bisexuality, but it could also point toward lesbianism ("I check them out more than I check men out") — and, for that matter, you can't entirely rule out the possibility of a David Bowie move here (i.e. going for the shock value by "revealing" something she'll retract later). One of the reasons sexuality is such a complicated and controversial categorization scheme for people is that orientation isn't, in and of itself, a visible characteristic; it's one that we can only identify through a person's statements and actions, and those can both be inconsistent with a person's internal orientation setting. In other words, we can only identify a person's sexual orientation through what they consciously choose to reveal about it.

So in terms of the article content, we should certainly stick to quoting her as precisely as possible and not inferring anything she hasn't said. WP:BLP is pretty clear on that part. Whether the category is right or wrong, I couldn't say, but hopefully my input can help direct the ongoing discussion a bit. I'm also going to post this to the LGBT notice board for additional input. Bearcat 00:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

FWIW, the WP:LGBT guidelines (which are still sort of in development) would (probably) include Ms Piper as a bisexual. We use the rule(s) of thumb:

1. The person identifies as bisexual, regardless of relationships, ie Billie Joe Armstrong.
2. A person has had documented, notable relationships with both sexes, such as Marlon Brando.
3. A person has been alleged, with evidence, by reliable sources to be, or have been, in a relationship with both sexes, ie Lord Byron and Alfred Kinsey.

If you interpret the quote to say "I'm bisexual" (and in my opinion, that's what it says), then yes, she belongs in the category. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 01:55, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough — although I think the word "maybe" in the quote complicates the issue. If Billie Joe Armstrong had merely said "I might be bisexual", would that qualify him for the category? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 02:21, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

An aside: a similar (but more heated) discussion seems to be going on at Talk:Michelle Rodriguez. I hope we can conduct ourselves better than that. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 02:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

She has confirmed herself to be bisexual. She even stated in a news paper interview that she has thought about having sex with her female friends. That is not a joke. That is true. Cross my heart. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.108.135.8 (talk) 16:22, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Autobiography question

Anyone know if Piper is really writing her autobiography, or is it (as is often the case with young celebrities) being ghost-written? Martpol 12:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

According to The Independent on July 21, she was offered a ghostwriter, and initially turned it down, hoping to write it herself; however, she's found that various work commitments have prevented her from being able to write, so she's changed her mind and will have a ghostwriter. I couldn't find the story on The Independent' own website, but if you go here and scroll down to "Merchandise" (or search in the page for "ghostwriter") you'll find the source. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 07:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The Billie Story

While searching on iTunes, I came across "The Billie Story", a spoken-word album by Billie. Not sure if this should be added to the page or not. Anyone?

• It's by something call Chrome Dreams, it's rubbish. It's from 1999 and is highly inaccurate even for then.

212.32.73.168 16:37, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Sally Lockheart

Man, I thought they were pushing it having Billie play a 19 year old on Doctor Who. Now she's going to play a 16 year old Victorian orphan? That should be good. 204.69.40.7 20:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

B-sides?

Is is standard practice for musician articles to list B-sides of singles in a separate section? I wasn't able to find such a section in a quick view of other musicians' pages; some discography articles (such as The Beatles discography and R.E.M. discography) have the B-sides listed along with the singles, while others don't mention the B-sides at all. Should we consolidate the recently added B-sides into the singles, or remove them? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 05:49, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Original name

The GRO's index for birth registrations for the December quarter of 1982 quite clearly shows her name as "Leian Paul Piper". The relevant page can be seen at this page on the respected Ancestry.co.uk genealogical site. I'd suggest that any other spelling is either a case of the name being misremembered, or it being mistranscribed in interviews. Clearly the article needs revising accordingly.
Anyone checking the link should be warned that the page is a fairly large download.
Silverhelm 23:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC).

Award

She won an National Television Award for her part on Doctor Who this year ... I don't know where to put in this information so if someone would? Michaelritchie200 19:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Photo for 'Career/Music' section?

I see that the 'Film and Television' and 'Doctor Who' sections both have an illustrative photo, could this section do with a photo of Billie in her 'pop star' years? Skylarkingnz 09:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't see why not — although the anti-fair use extremists might object, I think it would add to the article. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:15, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

MySpace?

An anon recently removed a comment about Piper's supposed music comeback (based on a post at with the edit summary "MySpace is believed to be run by an imposter, therefore this music news cannot be trusted." I dont doubt the anon's comment, especially since I've seen no other sources besides this MySpace page saying that Piper intends to return to pop music — but I'd like some more confirmation that the MySpace page is a fake. If nothing else, it would be good to know that for sure so that we can deal with people re-adding material from it. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 14:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Divorce

The article states she and Evans were divorced last September, and gives [4] as a reference; however, there's a single reference to the divorce in that article and that does not state it is finalized (nor does it give a date). Today we have [5], in which Billie herself clearly states "I'm not even divorced yet...". I'm adjusting the article to reflect this. Radagast 22:39, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Why?

One thing I'd like to learn from the article is the reason that she left (decided to leave?) Doctor Who. It seems to me that the show was hugely positive career move for her, so why quit? Dmforcier 22:11, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Is This true?

Is it true that Billie was rushed into hospital because she went blind??? plz answer the question plz!!! From Jonni 11:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's true, but the blindness was temporary. It seems to have been triggered by high-intensity flash bulbs from paparazzi cameras. The incident was really pretty minor, and doesn't merit inclusion in the Wikipedia article, IMO. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 15:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Front Page picture

Far too large obviously, can someone with more skills than me resize it? TheLostProphet 00:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Resized and captioned.

As aside, people, this image has been added and removed, added and removed. Everything on the image page seems to indicate that it is within WP:IUP. Is there a reason for the serial editing that I'm not getting, or is it vandalism/misunderstanding.-Leeson 01:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Tabloid rumours

NOTW is a notorious rag. They are infamous for making stuff up. There have been a million rumours and tabloid reports, going back yonks, that Billie is "in talks" and will shortly be returning to DW. All proved false. The only source for the story is a quote from an unnamed "insider" which could mean anything, and Billie has been pretty clear in interviews that the tabloid reports are, basically, total crap. There is always a possibility she may return, yes, but something purely speculative like that should not be added to her page on the basis of one infamous tabloid story with no sources. Until someone at the BBC or Billie herself says or even hints at a return, the rumours do not deserve their own section and certainly not with the current wording. 81.1.92.49 06:10, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Addeed this to her page, as it has now been confirmed. Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7114699.stm . Ben sewell (talk) 12:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I Want Candy?

It says on eBay, Amazon and HMV Online that a track called I Want Candy is on the Honey To The B album ... but I've heard of it nowhere else. Is it true? 212.32.86.68 18:25, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Mrs Fox ?

The website quoted just has "Billie became Mrs Fox this afternoon". That just seems another way of saying that she married a Mr Fox. What is needed is a statement that she will using the name Fox professionally which I think is unlikely. I looked at a few other Wiki pages for female celebrities and can't see any with a statement like "(now known as Mrs Fox or Billie Fox)", it seems unnecessary as just the details of the husband is usually given. if she does decide to use the name "Fox" professionally then that can also be added. --jmb (talk) 15:04, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I would have thought it extremely unlikely that she would change her professional name. After all, she didn't when she was Mrs Evans. -- Arwel (talk) 17:40, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

GRO Index

^ GRO Birth Registration Index (Paid registration required.) (1982).

Not correct, it can be accessed online by registration or pay to view but it is available in many libraries, record offices, TNA, LDS FHC etc. No different to quoting a book as reference, most are not available online. It is the first step in confirming an approximate date of birth. --jmb (talk) 10:50, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

The notice applies to the site that is reached when one clicks the link. It does, in fact, required a fee for registration, and one must be registered to view it. Aeron (talk) 22:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Just tried the aforementioned link and it now 404's so it's all a moot point anyhow. JimScott (talk) 06:00, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

FHM ranking

Could someone check the FHM ranking (in particular 2006), as I don't see billie on number 11 (it's paris hilton). Would somene provide citation for the rankings? ĞavinŤing 17:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Name spelling

Okay, there are currently two spellings of her birth name (Leanne/Liane) user interchangeably on the page. Haven't we been here before? Seriously, is it Leanne, Liane or Leian? If anyone happens to know, fix it, yeah? Ta. \\Aeron (talk) 08:21, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Picture

Ok, obviously no offence to the photographer, but that is the most hideous picture! Piper is actually a lot prettier than that... Can't we find something better, e.g. on Flickr? Adaircairell (talk) 20:34, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh I was just thinking how much more shaggable she looks in the photo than that dolled-up look she has on the telly. --Jenny 13:09, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Ellie Or Elle

I was just reading the sleeve notes of Walk Of Life, and Billie calls her sister Elle, not Ellie. Is there any where that actually confirms the name?203.192.85.33 (talk) 00:57, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

It is Ellie - Elle is her nickname. 62.164.250.214 (talk) 19:12, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Billie's school

Does anyone know where the information about Billie attending Brookfield School came from? She was at Oliver Tomkins when I was there, in my younger brother's year. We moved before they left primary school though so she may have changed schools later? Either way, she was definitely at Oliver Tomkins. Pcresham (talk) 08:45, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Name

Billie Paul Piper was born Leian Paul Piper.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=ONSBirth84&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=ms_db&gsfn=leian+paul&gsln=piper&_81004010=1982&dbOnly=_F00034D1%7C_F00034D1_x

It's spelt "Lianne" in some interviews just because they thought it was spelt that way when writing it, they did not asked Billie how it's spelt, but it's actually "Leian".

Billie said herself in those interviews "Leian" was legally changed weeks later to Billie.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=ONSBirth84&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=ms_r_db&gsfn=billie+paul&gsln=piper&_81004010=1982&dbOnly=_F00034D1%7C_F00034D1_x Israell (talk) 04:49, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Her current real and legal name is Billie Paul Piper as shown on those websites.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=ROOT_CATEGORY&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=ms_f-2&gsfn=billie+paul&gsln=piper&sbo=1

http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=1630850&search_in=c&search_type=exact&search_det=t,s,w,p,b,v&results_pp=20&start=1 Israell (talk) 00:06, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Those links are rubbish and don't clearly support a name change. The strongest link imo is the Guardian interview Off2riorob (talk) 00:12, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

"Rubbish"? It's a moronic and retarded statement. Those links refer to the England & Wales Birth Index (Leian Paul Piper, Billie Paul Piper), a marriage record to Christopher Evans from the Nevada Marriage Index (Billie Paul Piper) and royalties credits from ASCAP and PRS (Billie Paul Piper).

All those sources are very much OFFICIAL. They show OFFICIAL information. Mistakes can be made in interviews and articles. They just thought it was spelt "Lianne" because "Leian" sounds that way.

HOW MANY interviews and articles from renowned magazines and websites say Marilyn Monroe's birth name was "Norma Jean", when it was "Norma Jeane"? What should be taken into consideration...

OFFICIAL birth records that say "Norma Jeane" OR any magazine, book or newspaper, no matter how prestigious that says "Norma Jean"? Can you answer that question? Israell (talk) 00:39, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

• Please do not refer to my comment as moronic and retarded , that is a personal attack Off2riorob (talk) 00:44, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

The use of the term "rubbish" is offensive and uncalled for. Is that the best term you could come up with to express yourself? It is simply NOT proper language on Wikipedia. Did you say "Those links are not sufficient", or something like that I would never have responded that way. I would only have explained why my sources are legitimate.

If you decide to show NO MANNERS and be uncivilized and rude, expect people to act the same way to you.

I used official birth, marriage and performing rights records, none of which are "rubbish". Your comment did not make sense and was offensive. Israell (talk) 00:55, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I have a new source for Leian Paul Piper. However, the England & Wales Birth Index, the Nevada Marriage Index (Billie Paul Piper) and both ASCAP & PRS are the most official and reliable sources that can be used. I just can't think of any other source more official! Why are we even having that silly dispute??? "Lianne" is MISINFORMATION. Period!

http://encyclopedia.stateuniversity.com/pages/2803/Billie-Paul-Piper.html Israell (talk) 01:30, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Thats a wikipedia mirror, the cleanest citation is the Guardian. Also shouting in capital letters is not correct here on wikipedia, thanks. Off2riorob (talk) 01:38, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Okay, but what about the England & Wales Birth Index, the Nevada Marriage Index? And what about ASCAP and PRS? Why is the Guardian more reliable than England & Wales Birth Index that says "Leian Paul Piper" and "Billie Paul Piper", the Nevada Marriage Index that says "Billie Paul Piper" and ASCAP and PRS that say "Billie Paul Piper"?

I disagree with you. Go to the Courtney Love article. Many sources say Love Michelle etc. but official records say "Courtney Michelle Love" as her current legal name and "Courtney Michelle Harrisson" as her birth name.

"Although some sources give Love’s natal name as “Love Michelle Harrison,” her listing on the California Birth Index from the Center for Health Statistics gives a natal name of “Courtney Michelle Harrison." Between adoption from several step-fathers, she has also gone by the names “Courtney Michelle Rodriguez” and “Courtney Michelle Menely.” The name change to “Courtney Michelle Love” happened in early 1990s, in the beginning of her music career and after the end of her first marriage (of which the legal records still feature the name “Courtney Michelle Menely”). According to the same statistics list above, the natal status of Courtney’s 1992 born daughter, Frances Bean Cobain, already include “Love” as the mother’s maiden surname."

IF the California Birth Index from the Center for Health Statistics can be used as a source, why can't the England & Wales Birth Index and the Nevada Marriage Index? What is your argument? Why is the Guardian website article more reliable than England & Wales Birth Index, the Nevada Marriage Index? I'm not the one being stubborn here.

Why is it so hard for you to just understand they made a spelling mistake?! Billie said "Leian" in interviews. They thought it was spelt "Lianne". That's all!

It's a birth record or a marriage record or a name change certificate that shows the true spelling of someone's name. The won who types an article for the most prestigious site, book or magazine can make a mistake and is notthe definitive official source!

The England & Wales Birth Index and the Nevada Marriage Index are the most reliable sources. Please try to understand and comprehend what I'm saying.

Wasn't Billie Piper born in Wiltshire??? The England & Wales Birth Index says Leian Paul Piper was born in Wilthshire. It also says Billie Paul Piper -legally changed from Billie Paul Piper- was born in Wiltshire.

Wasn't Billie Piper married to Chris Evans? The Nevada Marriage Index says Billie Paul Piper was married to Christopher Evans, which shows once again Billie's name was legally changed from Leian Paul Piper to Billie Paul Piper.

Please explain to me whyis Barbara Ellen a better source, a more official and reliable source than the England & Wales Birth Index, the Nevada Marriage Index + ASCAP and PRS???

I demand a clear, rational and logical explantion. Where did Barbara Ellen see it written "Lianne"? She might have seen that on any website. Did she look at the birth record??

No! 'Cause it says Leian, not Lianne. Israell (talk) 02:26, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Its a free, wikipedia reliable citation and non subscription site, which is visible for all people to see. Please, you have nothing to demand here, at the least try and be polite.Off2riorob (talk) 02:35, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

You refuse to understand the arguments I am using to improve this article. I haven't visited this article in years. Last time I visited it the information was correct.

The article said birth records showed "Leian" and weeks later the name was legally changed to "Billie". The article used the birth record as a source.

All I want is the accurate information to be featured in this article, not some spelling mistake made by a journalist from a website, even if the site is approved by Wikipedia.

Birth and marriage records are the best sources we can find. They are 100% official. Many Wikipedia articles rely on birth records; Marilyn Monroe's, Courtney Love's, Anton Lavey's and more. So why can't the Billie Piper article rely on them as well?

Aren't birth and marriage records Wikipedia reliable? The answer is yes.

The information found on the Guardian site is wrong! It is misinformation and that is not allowed on Wikipedia.

Why should we allow the Wikipedia Billie Piper article to display the false "Lianne" information when an official birth record from the England & Wales Birth Index says "Leian"?

Why not display the truth? Wikipedia should only display truthful information. You should give Wikipedia reasons why you think your information is the right one.

You're basically saying you understand birth and marriage records clearly show that Billie Piper was born Leian Paul Piper, which was legally changed weeks later to Billie Paul Piper, but the false information shall remain just because you believe the Guardian website is more reliable than official birth, marriage records and information from ASCAP and PRS.

I have been on Wikipedia for years, did not edit much but read several articles and know for a fact birth records, name change records etc. are the definitive sources we can trust when it comes to the official spelling of names and legal name changes.

"Lianne" is misinformation and by Wikipedia standard cannot remain on the article. Israell (talk) 03:32, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I have now found a new source for "Leian" and the legal name change to "Billie".

"With the Doctor cast, attention now turned to finding an actress to portray Rose. Davies and his team finally settled on Billie Piper, who had ridden the wave of teenage pop princesses to the top of the British charts beginning in 1998. Born Leian Piper (her first name being legally changed by her parents while she was still an infant), her ambition had always been acting rather than singing, however, and in 2003 -- two years after abandoning her music career -- she found acclaim with a role in The Canterbury Tales."

http://www.shannonsullivan.com/drwho/serials/2005a.html Israell (talk) 03:38, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I have found a new source! From the Telegraph this time. It says 1- It's "Leian Paul Piper", not "Lianne Paul Piper". 2- It says it was legally changed to "Billie Paul Piper" on April 25, 1983. I see Nick Barrat did a much better research. The Telegraph article is very much detailed and even talks about her ancestry all the way back to the 19th Century. It also gives Billie's parent's middle names. Therefore, it's a much better source than the Guardian.

"Leian Paul Piper was born in Swindon on September 22, 1982. On April 25, 1983, her name was officially changed to Billie Paul Piper by her parents, Paul Victor Piper and Mandy Kane Kent."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1435159/Family-Detective.html Israell (talk) 04:36, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I have found another source. TV Guide! Says "Leian" was legally changed to "Billie".

"Birth name was Leian, but her parents legally changed it to Billie less than a year after she was born."

http://www.tvguide.com/celebrities/billie-piper/bio/192300 Israell (talk) 04:48, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

An IP editor deleted citations supporting the apparently correct spelling of Billie's given name. I reverted the deletion, because these citations were the result of a protracted editing battle on the subject, as evidenced above. Note I agree that the intro paragraph could be cleaner, and most should be, but in THIS case, the citations are actually important. Please discuss. --Lexein (talk) 09:10, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

The same editor who changed the name to its evidently correct form (Lianne) also deleted the citations. It's not hard to see why. The sources give the name as Leian Piper and Leian Paul Piper (so they aren't exactly agreeing with each other). I think the only way to cut through this knot is to go to an authoritative source, namely Billie herself. In her autobiography Growing Pains, p.74, she states that she was originally registered as Lianne Piper (spelt that way twice), and later re-registered. Confusingly, she then states that "Billie Paul Piper" was born on 22 Sept '82, but she is obviously speaking retrospectively. Whatever this or that newspaper or TV guide may say (probably 'amending' themselves and copying WP or one another in an endless circle), 'Lianne' is how Billie herself spells it and I think she ought to know. I will alter the article accordingly, delete the erroneous sources and put in the citation from the autobiography. And, hopefully, that will be that. Gnostrat (talk) 12:13, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

The name is shown in the General Register Office Birth Index as Leian Paul Piper, Q4 1982 Swindon and mother's maiden name Kent.--jmb (talk) 07:11, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, that plain contradicts what Billie herself wrote in her autobiography. Do you have an online source that we can readily access for citation purposes?

You see, I've a problem with this. So there's a Leian Paul Piper on the Birth Index. Israell had already told us that, but hasn't so far produced any convincing evidence that this person is the same as Billie. The ancestry research site used by Israell is a pay-to-view site so I haven't accessed the record (and I don't think Israell has either), but what I can read there is that there's a separate record for Billie and it isn't necessarily the case that this Leian Paul Piper is the same individual at all. "Wiltshire, Hampshire, Dorset/Somerset" covers a pretty wide area.

The record says the mother's maiden name was Kent. Does it supply her full name? Is the father's name Paul Victor? Moreover, do we know that Billie's mother's maiden name was Kent, as she is named in the Personal life section? I note that there is no citation to back that up. The Mark Drew reference merely names her as Mandy Piper. As far as I've checked, Billie nowhere states her mother's maiden name in her autobiography either. So perhaps we should take Nick Barratt's word for it? But what were his sources? If he's using the Birth Index...is he possibly also conflating the details for this Leian Paul Piper and his/her mother with our Billie and her mother?

If it does turn out that the Leian of the Birth Index became Billie, I'm at a loss to explain the autobiography. I suppose it's always possible that she doesn't know how to spell her birth name since she's never had to use it, but I think the default assumption has to be otherwise, don't you? I doubt it's her ghost-writer's error; Billie would surely have read it through before it went to print. I also used the reissued and updated edition. She would have had ample opportunity to make corrections. Gnostrat (talk) 16:55, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

There are no free online sites to access the Birth Index though there are places where you can go in person to view it or you can send off your £9.25 for a copy of the Birth Certificate.

Billie Paul Piper Q4 1982 Swindon Mother Kent v23 p1881

Leian Paul Piper Q4 1982 Swindon Mother Kent v23 p1881

Note they both have the same references

Not sure what happens when there is a name change and whether an addition birth entry is made for the new name, it is possible. --jmb (talk) 17:35, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Front image

A newer picture than 2006 is certainly welcome, but it must not be at risk of speedy deletion due to copyright violations. How can you help? Upload and release per WP licensing policy (CC-BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL) a photograph of Billie which you took which does not violate anyone's copyright! --Lexein (talk) 08:50, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Orlando Bloom

I'm not sure if I'm going about this in the right way, but the article states that Billie Piper played Orlando Bloom's love interest in Things to Do Before You're 30. Orlando Bloom is not in that movie. Thanks V35lmt (talk) 12:59, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

2010

Is she role as Rose Tyler in 2010? --JerryofWong (talk) 19:18, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Top Gear

(Add it to main article?)

She appeared in Top Gear S09E06 as "the Star In A Reasonably Priced Car." (proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWbnOym4nIk) -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.80.50.93 (talk • contribs) 01:38, 8 February 2011

Celebs make lots of promotional appearances. This article doesn't list any. You may already know that WP:YOUTUBE isn't a RS unless it's Ms. Piper's, BBC's, Top Gear's, or a news outlet's channel. The YouTube link now leads to "Billie Piper..." This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by BBC Worldwide Ltd.. Sorry about that." I found one WP:RS with nothing special about her Top Gear appearance:

• Billie Piper gets revved up : Dr Who star set to appear on Top Gear. Now Magazine, 5 February 2007.

This source might be substantial enough for another part of the article, about her courtship, though, unless it's already covered by other sources.

--Lexein (talk) 21:14, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Billie Piper / Jimmy Osmond Charting Confusion

Please can someone take off the deletion note? It is a valid page with sources and it a genuine argument that arises often. People get confused between Billie Piper DEBUTING at number one and Jimmy Osmond getting a number one. Very different things, explained here. Please don't delete. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.25.178.169 (talk) 17:30, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

For people not from Britain, and just for clarity's sake, it would be beneficial to mention what charts are involved in the following statements. Some of these are very ambiguous and the wording is iffy, in my opinion (aka. "get a number one"). ^ The difference being that Jimmy Osmond didn't enter at number one, he climbed, Billie entered her first week at number one. Therefore making her the youngest to ENTER (Debut) at number one AND the second youngest to receive a number one at all.

1. Piper is currently the youngest artist to ever debut at number one, she did this aged 15 with Because We Want To.[8]
2. She is also currently the second youngest artist to get a number one, behind Jimmy Osmond.
3. Billie Piper is the youngest and first female solo singer to reach the top spot with her first two singles, Because We Want To and Girlfriend — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.238.216 (talk) 09:56, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Use of Body Doubles - Never Does Nudity

There's some admission of body doubles being used while she was pregnant, but there isn't a SINGLE scene (just watched every ep in a marathon) where there's frontal nudity where her face is in view. The sex scenes or frontal nudity all involve a girl who has a freckle in the middle lower portion of her chest which Billie definitely doesn't have when you look through photos of her in other stuff or candid. Also the tattoo on her wrist is different in boldness and shading in all her nude scenes and her hair looks like a wig to a laughable degree.

So, I would state that she does NOT do a single nude scene (sure she might do 'sex scenes', from behind, or with a sheet wrapped around her which is the ONLY way you'll see her in sex scenes where face is visible) without use of a body double. Problem is, this is original research, so, any of you wikipedian editors out there got any sauce on this? 121.216.97.167 (talk) 16:26, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

I think they used the body double starting from season 2 of Secret Diary of a Call Girl. There were short nude scenes in season 1. Have a look at episode 5. --93.104.127.247 (talk) 14:03, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

WTF at New Pic

Ew, yuck, spew! Billie Piper is a beautiful woman, but the new picture is the most unflattering photo of her ever! Please, can we change it to something... else?--Meluvseveryone (talk) 07:05, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

I agree, please change to a nicer picture.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.25.185.255 (talk) 08:54, 23 August 2011 (UTC) 

Agree. Perhaps we should discuss which is best. Considerations include non-free vs free (free is always preferred), image quality, portrayal of the subject in appropriate circumstances, and image age. I always liked B, below, and saw no reason to change until a markedly better image arrived. Image A is unflattering. There are a lot of images of her, but few are usable in a BLP. There was one of her seated holding a water bottle which I disliked due to redeye and some sweatiness, but I can't find it. --Lexein (talk) 09:58, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

• 
  Billie Piper.jpg (Option A)
• 
  Billie Piper in October 2006.JPG [1](Option B)
• BilliePiperPortrait2.jpeg ([2]deleted? Never existed?)
  BilliePiperPortrait2.jpeg ([2]deleted? Never existed?)

Agree. Billie looks good in most photos but Option B is her natural self, more glamorous, more at ease, more interesting surroundings and captures the smile for which she is celebrated. It's a softer focus but that's an advantage. Option A, she really doesn't look like she's enjoying herself much. Sharper isn't always better. Gnostrat (talk) 21:04, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

I quite like the one we had before, at the book signing, Option B.--Meluvseveryone (talk) 03:41, 29 September 2011 (UTC)