Talk:April Kepner

Attending Status

The show actually did address it on her first day back. The intern said she ordered a consult from general surgery and April said that she was the consult. She's a general surgery attending; her residency was in general surgery, she completed a general surgery residency, and she is now a general surgery attending. Ace^(T•CON) 22:27, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

• Accosting to an interview with Sarah Drew, the actress who pays April in the series On BuddyTV, it is stated that:

"My favorite April Kepner episode is season seven's "That's Me Trying" in which Owen Hunt (then head of the emergency department, now chief of surgery) trains the staff in crisis response and April, to everyone's surprise, emerges as a budding trauma surgeon. Season eight has focused mostly on April's role as chief resident with her surgical training largely in the background. When I asked if April had ever officially declared trauma as her area of specialty, Sarah assured me that April is definitely still in trauma, even though we haven't seen much of that played out on screen recently."--Meryam90 (talk) 22:53, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

• I'm not disagreeing that Kepner declared trauma as a specialty; this was more than indicated on the show when Hunt had chosen her to be his protege in season 7. However, her residency was in general surgery, and that's what she completed; specialty training is referred to as fellowship, so Karev, Jackson, and Yang hold attending status in general surgery, but are surgical fellows in peds, plastics, and cardio respectively. Actual dialogue from the show confirm that she's a general surgery attending because the intern specifically said in 9x03, "I ordered a consult from general surgery", and April responded, "I'm your consult." Officially, she holds general surgery attending status. She may very well be Hunt's new trauma surgical fellow, but that has yet to be established on the show. What is confirmed is that she's an attending in general surgery. Furthermore, that interview was in April of 2012, commenting on season 8; it has no bearing on season 9. Ace^(T•CON) 23:16, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • That line of dialogue is not specifically saying that she is a general surgery attending. Implying so is a real stretch. That said, it is OR to declare her a general surgery attending, until it is explicitly stated. Her occupation parameter should remain generic until it is directly implied. TRLIJC19 (talk • contribs) 01:54, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
    • While I may agree that it isn't explicitly stated that Kepner is a general surgery attending which falls under OR, to say that it's implication is a real stretch is hyperbole and, frankly, unfounded. A general surgery consult was ordered, and Kepner responded: who else would respond other than a general surgeon? The consult was for a hernia repair which is a general surgery procedure and performed by a general surgeon. Dr. Webber spoke to Dr. Bailey, both general surgeons, about the latter taking the surgery from Kepner, and Bailey assigned Dr. Grey, a general surgeon, to observe it. While it may be true there is no direct dialogue or text that specifically says that Kepner is a general surgery attending, indirect evidence by the show indicates otherwise. Ace^(T•CON) 14:55, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
    • As per WP:OR, that line was no specifically said, and I agree with TRLIJC19, it does seem to be a stretch. Let's wait for further episodes until it is actually said exactly. It should, IMO, say in the meantime. TBrandley 02:25, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
      • I also agree with TRLIJC19 and TBrandley. The fact that she had a general surgery residency is not relevant: EVERY surgeon has a five year residency in general surgery, before a 2+ year fellowship in another specialty (sometimes this kind of fellowship is regarded as an extra-residency). It is true that after completing the five year residency in general surgery, a surgeon can become an attending physician ONLY in general surgery (if he doesn't pursue extra training for another specialty) but that doesn't mean April is an attending -- she can very well be a trauma fellow. We just have to wait and see. Jonathan Harold Koszeghi (talk) 13:19, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
        • This is not true, to say that "every" surgeon has a five year residency in general surgery is completely inaccurate. In the United States, there are 8 recognized surgical residency programs: general surgery, neurosurgery, OBGYN, opthalmology, orthopedic surgery, ENT/otolaryngology, plastic surgery, and urology after med school. Those are all residencies that surgeons can undergo: general surgery is not the only residency available for surgeons. Please refer to the American Board of Surgery and the American College of Surgeons.
          
          Also, from an in-universe perspective, Callie was not a general surgery resident, she was a orthopedic surgery resident during seasons 2 through early season 5; Mark was an ENT resident before taking a plastic surgical fellowship; Addison was an OBGYN resident either before or after her peds surgery fellowship. From an in-universe and real-world perspective, that statement is completely false.
          
          I don't doubt the fact that April could be a trauma surgical fellow, but the show has not indicated this either directly or indirectly: she's not responded to any trauma cases, Hunt hasn't stated she is his fellow, and her cases thus far have all been general surgery cases. What the show has indicated is that April holds attending status in general surgery, as I've pointed out in my posts above. I haven't seen any other user refute it. April does hold attending status, and she holds it in general surgery, as does Avery, Yang, and Karev; the only difference upon the latter examples is that their surgical fellow status in plastics, cardio, and peds (respectively) supercedes their general surgery attending status, and the show has directly/indirectly confirmed their surgical fellow status.Ace^(T•CON) 22:37, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
        • I say we should wait for more episodes to air before changing her status. It might have been said in this week's episode but I haven't watched it yet. Personally, I find it strange if she's really an attending but yet failed her boards... Also, how could she be an attending in general surgery while her speciality was trauma? --Sofffie7 (talk) 18:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
          • She declared her trauma specialty during her general surgery residency, as do most residents in their latter years of residency. Actual training in that specialty is a fellowship, which she supposedly would've earned had she passed her boards. But, board certification is a voluntary process governed by an external body that has no relation to the hospital of her employment. It's like having a CPA: some firms require their accountants that prepare internal financials require it, and some firms don't. You're still an accountant. Same principle applies with board-certs. In the real-world, top-tier hospitals require their attendings to have board-certs in their completed residencies in order for them to be hired. However, while this is not the majority of the case, you can still be a non-board certified attending. You can still practice medicine without require supervision, and your license has no impact or bearing on your board-cert results for the residency that you completed.
            
            Hunt, as Chief of Surgery, has discretion to hire any surgeon who meets the legally required minimum standard to practice medicine and surgery, which April Kepner meets. She has a license to practice unsupervised medicine (completing her USMLE steps 1 and 2 during med schoool, and setps 3, also known as the intern exam), and has completed at least five years in a general surgery residency. Those criteria allow Hunt to legally hire Kepner as an attending general surgeon. Board-certs do not disqualify you from having attending status - residency has been completed, and hence attending status is given by the hospital of employment. And Hunt, as Chief, hired her with the title of attending, and in direct evidence by the show indicates as a general surgery attending. Ace^(T•CON) 22:46, 26 October 2012 (UTC)