User talk:JBW: Difference between revisions
PavelSolin (talk | contribs) |
|||
Line 207: | Line 207: | ||
:If you really did not see the article as promotional, then it seems that you are so close to the subject that you are unable to stand back from it and see how your writing will look from the detached perspective of an outside observer. The whole page, from start to finish, read like a publisher's brochure telling potential customers why they should use the product, rather than like an impartial, outsider's description. This is, in fact, a good illustration of why Wikipedia's conflict of interest guidelines recommend not writing articles on subjects in which we have a close personal involvement. Leaving aside blatant spammers, which you are clearly not, even people who sincerely do not intend promotionally often find it difficult or impossible to see how promotional their own writing will look when a subject they have a close connection to is involved, and it seems that is so in this case. I see that you have received several messages about conflict of interest and promotional editing, and that as far back as July you expressed the intention of avoiding the problems. The fact that, despite that indication of your intentions, you have still failed to remove the clear and unambiguous promotional nature of the article, tends to confirm that you are too close to the subject to edit objectively on it. I think it best to accept that Wikipedia's conflict of interest guidelines strongly discourage writing an article on a subject in which you have such a close involvement. If the subject really does satisfy Wikipedia's notability criteria then no doubt an independent, uninvolved, editor, will write an article on the subject. [[User:JamesBWatson|JamesBWatson]] ([[User talk:JamesBWatson#top|talk]]) 09:18, 12 November 2012 (UTC) |
:If you really did not see the article as promotional, then it seems that you are so close to the subject that you are unable to stand back from it and see how your writing will look from the detached perspective of an outside observer. The whole page, from start to finish, read like a publisher's brochure telling potential customers why they should use the product, rather than like an impartial, outsider's description. This is, in fact, a good illustration of why Wikipedia's conflict of interest guidelines recommend not writing articles on subjects in which we have a close personal involvement. Leaving aside blatant spammers, which you are clearly not, even people who sincerely do not intend promotionally often find it difficult or impossible to see how promotional their own writing will look when a subject they have a close connection to is involved, and it seems that is so in this case. I see that you have received several messages about conflict of interest and promotional editing, and that as far back as July you expressed the intention of avoiding the problems. The fact that, despite that indication of your intentions, you have still failed to remove the clear and unambiguous promotional nature of the article, tends to confirm that you are too close to the subject to edit objectively on it. I think it best to accept that Wikipedia's conflict of interest guidelines strongly discourage writing an article on a subject in which you have such a close involvement. If the subject really does satisfy Wikipedia's notability criteria then no doubt an independent, uninvolved, editor, will write an article on the subject. [[User:JamesBWatson|JamesBWatson]] ([[User talk:JamesBWatson#top|talk]]) 09:18, 12 November 2012 (UTC) |
||
James, you are probably right, I should stay away from writing about NCLab. I am giving all my energy to the project and I may be failing to write impartially. But there are many users who would love to have NCLab page on Wikipedia. Would you recommend that someone else starts from scratch, or would you be willing to return the page for a limited trial time and see if people can remove its promotional character. Thanks to NCLab, high schools can access a free CAD system in the web browser and other things that |
James, you are probably right, I should stay away from writing about NCLab. I am giving all my energy to the project and I may be failing to write impartially. But there are many users who would love to have NCLab page on Wikipedia. Would you recommend that someone else starts from scratch, or would you be willing to return the page for a limited trial time and see if people can remove its promotional character. Thanks to NCLab, high schools can access a free CAD system in the web browser and other things that make the kids excited about STEM. I realize that even this text here may sound promotional but I would very much appreciate you understanding and help. I promise I will not edit the page myself in the future. Sincerely [[User:PavelSolin|PavelSolin]] ([[User talk:PavelSolin|talk]]) 17:45, 12 November 2012 (UTC) |
||
==Talkback from Blackmane== |
==Talkback from Blackmane== |
Revision as of 01:29, 13 November 2012
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 |
This page has archives. Sections older than 7 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present. |
Remembrance Day
Would you mind if I made a few changes to Remembrance Day (United States section)? I would like to change "commemorated" to "observed" (first sentence). Also, I would like to change the last sentence to read: Veterans Day is observed with memorial ceremonies, salutes at military cemeteries, and parades.
I am asking because the article is semi-protected by you. Very respectfully, Tiyang (talk) 04:35, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
- That's fine, just go ahead. Those seem perfectly reasonable changes. The semi-protection is to stop outright vandalism, and there is no reason why you should hold back form making the sort of changes you have in mind. JamesBWatson (talk) 13:24, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you very much. The changes have been made. You should know your name is in the Edit Summary as having been discussed with you. Very Respectfully, Tiyang (talk) 15:31, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
Mohammed Al Maiman
Hello,
Just to mention this article that has been created and deleted many times (in particular by you), see logs of Mohammed Al Maiman and Mohammed al Maiman. Udufruduhu (talk) 13:54, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
- Hello again
- The article has been recreated under the name Al Maiman Mohammed. Udufruduhu (talk) 17:39, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Jfgsloeditor creating "fake" AFDs
James, this newbie user jfgsloeditor (talk · contribs · count · logs · page moves · block log) has created fake AFD tags in America's Next Top Model, Cycle 1, America's Next Top Model, Cycle 2, America's Next Top Model, Cycle 18 and List of America's Next Top Model contestants. All of the AFD creations are suspected bad faith edits, that makes rude and ruining article's overview on reading bad AFDs. So are you plan to report this user? ApprenticeFan work 16:22, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
- What is the evidence that the AfDs are created in bad faith? JamesBWatson (talk) 16:24, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
- I checked to my watchlist and the nominator did the fake deletion discussion, it should be closed all three fake AFDs and the editor would block indefinitely for prevent editing again. ApprenticeFan work 16:32, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) It appears to me that the AfD nominations are done in good faith (at least one of them is an absolutely brutal article), just that the AfD's have been improperly created - manually creating AfD's is a multi-step process that is easy to mess up - I think that's also what JBW is trying to say (✉→BWilkins←✎) 21:16, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
- Given the text used, highly likely the editor is an MMA fan, probably a banned MMA sock. Mtking (edits) 22:40, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
- This account has said nothing about MMA. I nominated some crufty articles about a non-notable television show for deletion. WHAT are you talking about?! If you think those articles can be saved, then participate in the discussions I started. --Jfgsloeditor (talk) 13:39, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- You didn't create the discussions properly (✉→BWilkins←✎) 13:48, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- This account has said nothing about MMA. I nominated some crufty articles about a non-notable television show for deletion. WHAT are you talking about?! If you think those articles can be saved, then participate in the discussions I started. --Jfgsloeditor (talk) 13:39, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Given the text used, highly likely the editor is an MMA fan, probably a banned MMA sock. Mtking (edits) 22:40, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) It appears to me that the AfD nominations are done in good faith (at least one of them is an absolutely brutal article), just that the AfD's have been improperly created - manually creating AfD's is a multi-step process that is easy to mess up - I think that's also what JBW is trying to say (✉→BWilkins←✎) 21:16, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
- I checked to my watchlist and the nominator did the fake deletion discussion, it should be closed all three fake AFDs and the editor would block indefinitely for prevent editing again. ApprenticeFan work 16:32, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
WP:MMA
Thanks so much for contributing to Wikipedia, last month we collectively made 977 edits to MMA articles. Did you know there is a WikiProject dedicated to Mixed Martial Arts? Check out WikiProject Mixed martial arts. Feel free to sign up on the Participants page! This month we have a survey for new and existing members, What is the number 1 thing you do to make MMA articles better? Kevlar (talk) 21:50, 5 November 2012 (UTC) |
Notice
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Jfgsloeditor. Thank you. Mtking (edits) 22:36, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
- I noticed you removed the CSD'd form the AfD the user had created, you are right not G1 but most likely G5. Mtking (edits) 22:37, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
- Dude, what is wrong with you?! Leave me alone! --Jfgsloeditor (talk) 13:43, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- I noticed you removed the CSD'd form the AfD the user had created, you are right not G1 but most likely G5. Mtking (edits) 22:37, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
The Admin's Barnstar | |
I Love your work as a wiki admin.
P.S How did u get that clock that show how long u are on wikipedia DetectiveSherlockHolmes (talk) 06:52, 7 November 2012 (UTC) |
Drifter: Henry Lee Lucas
I guess I don't get the point of this website. Entries like one for my film "Drifter: Henry Lee Lucas" get created then someone like you comes along and deletes it.
There are no copyright violations. I am the writer and executive producer on the film which you can see with a quick look at IMDB or renegade picture.us. All I try to do if I edit is correct things that aren't right, add references and do what I can to add value. Maybe you don't see any value in an entry on this service about a feature film but others may disagree. I do. If one film is pointless then they all are. Frankly I find it insulting. I know there's all this neat "talk page" crap but some of us don't have time to sit trolling all day pointlessly deleting material they no nothing about.
If you want to really talk about this call me at 913-205-1747 and we can clear the air.
Best regards,
Wood Dickinson
a subsidiary of Think!, LLC 5638 Mission Road
Fairway, KS 66205
Phone: 866-461-0485
Cell: 913-205-1747
Fax: 913-273-0888
www.renegadepictures.us about me — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wooddickinson (talk • contribs) 08:01, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Hello, Wood Dickinson. I will try to clarify a few issues. I hope doing so will be helpful to you. You have presumably seen the deletion log entry, otherwise you would not have known that I deleted the article. You will therefore have seen that the reason I deleted it was logged as "Article that has no meaningful, substantive content". Indeed, the full and complete text that you posted was "Drifter: Henry Lee Lucas. Developing entry for this film. I wrote it and produced as well. Wood Dickinson reference" followed by a URL. The deletion had nothing to do with copyright, nor did it indicate that I "don't see any value" in having an article on the subject. The only relevance of copyright is that a completely different article on the same subject written by a different person was deleted three years ago. I expressed no opinion at all on the value or lack of value of a proper article on the subject. Wikipedia does not have "placeholder" articles waiting for content to be added, as such articles are immediately visible to the readers of Wikipedia, and a web page that says words to the effect "we haven't written this page yet, but we will" does not produce a good impression. Instead, if an article is being worked on but not yet ready for publication, we keep it in a "userspace" page: for example, if I were to write an article on that subject then I could create a page called User:JamesBWatson/Drifter: Henry Lee Lucas, and move it to Drifter: Henry Lee Lucas when it was ready.
- I give up quite a significant amount of my time to Wikipedia administration. Unfortunately a large proportion of what is posted here is vandalism, trivia, propaganda, uninformed adolescent speculation, illegal content, and other unhelpful stuff. If there weren't people willing to put time into cleaning up the mess, Wikipedia would soon degenerate into something very different from the very useful and widely consulted reference that it is. You are, of course, welcome to criticise any Wikipedia policy, and also to express rational disagreement with any particular decision I take in the course of the work I do to help implement those policies, but I disagree with your characterisation of my administrative work as "trolling".
- I hope these comments will be helpful to you. If you have any further questions about these matters, please feel welcome to contact me here again. However, I have no intention of getting involved in phone calls about Wikipedia work, especially not calls from one continent to another. JamesBWatson (talk) 08:38, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the information. So you know I did not create the entry for this film nor did I create the entry for any of the films I have made. I am assuming others with an interest in this stuff is creating them. I really don't have time. I do an incredible amount of consulting and research for psychiatrist mainly. Filmmaking and the movie biz has been with me all my life so I write, produce and sometimes even get paid. It is important to me that these entries are correct and I know I'm close to these projects but that's the reason why.
If I have done something wrong to cause someone else hardship I'm sorry. I'm frankly not on this site hardly ever. Just stumbled across those entries and as with IMDB I make sure it is right. Don't delete them just because of me. Someone put a lot of time in creating them. I just want them to be right and understand how they work.
Thanks again,
Wood — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wooddickinson (talk • contribs) 08:54, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Over the course of nine months you have evidently forgotten, but you did indeed create the article Drifter: Henry Lee Lucas. The creation of the article is listed in the log as 10:49, 4 February 2012 . . Wooddickinson (...) (←Created page with '=== Drifter: Henry Lee Lucas === Developing entry for this film. I wrote it and produced as well. Wood Dickinson reference Http://www.wooddickinson.com'). JamesBWatson (talk) 09:03, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
It wasn't done by me. When you make a feature film you have A LOT of people working and handling different tasks based upon their position in the crew/staff/admin etc...
Sorry for all the trouble.--Wood Dickinson 02:20, 8 November 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wooddickinson (talk • contribs)
- In that case it was done by someone else using your account. Wikipedia's policy is that an account is for an individual, and you shouldn't let anyone else use your account. JamesBWatson (talk) 08:33, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
Talkback
Message added 14:57, 7 November 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Talkback
Message added 09:18, 8 November 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Lovy Singhal (talk) 09:18, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
IP unblock
Hi there - thanks for letting me know. I had in fact spotted the block modication on my watchlist, and wasn't worried at all by it. Regards, BencherliteTalk 13:31, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
sup
Dr watson y is it u removed ma post on Bismas's page coz he aint given me an answer bout somein else init as well so i was try n get ma point across u get me faim and thats all i is doing u know what i mean faim ~ ~ ~ ~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackie55667788 (talk • contribs) 20:13, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
- If you would like to explain what you mean then I will try to answer. JamesBWatson (talk) 08:11, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
NFL Player Engagement page creation request
I would like to recreate a page for the NFL Player Engagement Department on Wikipedia. Please provide guidance on how to do so without it being viewed as a promotion. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Awmoss2 (talk • contribs) 14:41, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello James I need help.
I have been desperately trying to figure out the problem to my page "dpt labs". I have a message at the top of the screen that says the following: (This article includes a list of references, but its sources remain unclear because it has insufficient inline citations. Please help to improve this article by introducing more precise citations. (August 2012)). Aside from this There is a request for a speedy deletion of the page claiming its purpose is to solicit. I can assure it is meant for informative purposes, but nonetheless if you can provide me with a clear and concise solution I would greatly appreciate it. If not I am willing to create a new page if you can guide me in a way to steer clear of the same mistakes, but preferably I would like to work on the current page.
Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sdjeremy (talk • contribs) 21:26, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
- Excuse the intrusion, JBW...I didn't wanna scroll to read this one. Tiderolls 19:37, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
SAF Group Deleted Page
Hi James. Could you please move the deleted SAF Group page to my sandbox. would appreciate that. Thank you. Alijabari (talk) 02:40, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks...
...for setting me straight and helping out with that unblock request. I appreciate it. Drmies (talk) 15:19, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Editing Articles Titles
Sorry for earlier, I was trying to change the article's title. I wans't able to change it, at first I thought it was a problem with my internet, so I tried to change the title everyway, and after I finally did it i couldn't revert it. Could you help me? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Stop_%27Til_You_Get_Enough I want to change the "'til" to "'Til", I want a capital "T". Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pisguila (talk • contribs) 17:16, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
- That would be grammatically improper. The apostrophe replaces the "Un" ...so the capital letter has been replaced - you cannot decide to capitalize the 3rd letter of a word (✉→BWilkins←✎) 17:19, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) I'm actually unsure if it should be "'Til" or "'til". Some sources have one, some have the other. I don't have the time to look at the moment for an "official" source (i.e., label or artist's estate), but the usage in the article is inconsistent at the moment and I don't want to clean it up one way or the other. Thoughts? --Kinu t/c 17:45, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
- I'm afraid I moved it before seeing the comments here from BWilkins & Kinu, so sorry if I got it wrong. However, (1) my searches suggest that the capital is significantly more common, although both exist, and (2) the capital is included in at least some material from the publisher. Frankly, though, it is beyond me why anyone would care one way or the other about anything so trivial, so I have no intention of getting into discussions about this, let alone move-warring if someone thinks there is a good reason for moving it back. JamesBWatson (talk) 21:31, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
- That works for me, especially considering my statement "I don't have the time" was effectively code for "I really don't care that much". --Kinu t/c 00:42, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
- I'm afraid I moved it before seeing the comments here from BWilkins & Kinu, so sorry if I got it wrong. However, (1) my searches suggest that the capital is significantly more common, although both exist, and (2) the capital is included in at least some material from the publisher. Frankly, though, it is beyond me why anyone would care one way or the other about anything so trivial, so I have no intention of getting into discussions about this, let alone move-warring if someone thinks there is a good reason for moving it back. JamesBWatson (talk) 21:31, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) I'm actually unsure if it should be "'Til" or "'til". Some sources have one, some have the other. I don't have the time to look at the moment for an "official" source (i.e., label or artist's estate), but the usage in the article is inconsistent at the moment and I don't want to clean it up one way or the other. Thoughts? --Kinu t/c 17:45, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Leandro
Long time no speak. Leandro again on IP: 177.18.76.196. It's been a while since I've been around, but immediately, I've had to undo about 50 edits. Could you see to this IP when you have a minute? Thanks. Paralympiakos (talk) 20:21, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
- I have blocked the IP address for a few days. However, I will mention a couple of points for future reference. Firstly, when I read your message here, I had no memory of who "Leandro" was. If martial arts is a significant interest of yours, you may well be well aware of who has been disruptive on martial arts articles, but I have no knowledge of or interest in the subject, and someone who I blocked some time ago does not necessarily stay in my memory. (In recent weeks my editing has averaged at a rate equivalent to about 1700 edits per month, and something I did well over a month ago is not necessarily still in my mind.) It took me a while searching through my talk page archives to find Leandro da silva pereira santos, who is no doubt who you mean. It would have helped to have given me the exact user name. Secondly, I very quickly saw that there was a considerable overlap between the articles edited by the IP and those edited by Leandro da silva pereira santos, but that could just be a case of two editors with similar interests. It was by no means immediately obvious that they were the same person. If you know of specific reasons to connect an IP to a blocked editor, it would help a great deal if you would briefly mention what the evidence is. JamesBWatson (talk) 20:51, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
- Fair point. They are the same person. They keep making the same disruptive and nonsensical edits. All the IPs are from Porto Alegre, as 177.97.69.239 is too. Anyway, I just figured as you've been the one who is (admittedly not so much) aware, I would come to you. Cheers for stopping that previous IP. Paralympiakos (talk) 22:53, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
CSIA
JamesBWatson, Hi. I am notifying you that the modifications I made to the article "Canadian Ski Instructors' Alliance" were not complete. I undid your changes because I will continue editing the article until it falls within an acceptable range, which is currently impossible because some editors are undo-button maniacs. References will be added shortly, so please give me a break! --JellyBean4.1 (talk) 21:54, 11 November 2012 (UTC) By the way, as an administrator, you should know that there currently is a huge decline in the number of Wikipedia editors. Supporting them instead of deleting their every moves might be something you should consider. Cheers. --JellyBean4.1 (talk) 21:56, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Speedy deletion of NCLab's page
Hello, I left on my talk page an explanation why I think the page should not be deleted. It is an overview of a project, not an advertisement. I would be glad to remove from the page anything that seems inappropriate. Thank you PavelSolin (talk) 08:56, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
- If you really did not see the article as promotional, then it seems that you are so close to the subject that you are unable to stand back from it and see how your writing will look from the detached perspective of an outside observer. The whole page, from start to finish, read like a publisher's brochure telling potential customers why they should use the product, rather than like an impartial, outsider's description. This is, in fact, a good illustration of why Wikipedia's conflict of interest guidelines recommend not writing articles on subjects in which we have a close personal involvement. Leaving aside blatant spammers, which you are clearly not, even people who sincerely do not intend promotionally often find it difficult or impossible to see how promotional their own writing will look when a subject they have a close connection to is involved, and it seems that is so in this case. I see that you have received several messages about conflict of interest and promotional editing, and that as far back as July you expressed the intention of avoiding the problems. The fact that, despite that indication of your intentions, you have still failed to remove the clear and unambiguous promotional nature of the article, tends to confirm that you are too close to the subject to edit objectively on it. I think it best to accept that Wikipedia's conflict of interest guidelines strongly discourage writing an article on a subject in which you have such a close involvement. If the subject really does satisfy Wikipedia's notability criteria then no doubt an independent, uninvolved, editor, will write an article on the subject. JamesBWatson (talk) 09:18, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
James, you are probably right, I should stay away from writing about NCLab. I am giving all my energy to the project and I may be failing to write impartially. But there are many users who would love to have NCLab page on Wikipedia. Would you recommend that someone else starts from scratch, or would you be willing to return the page for a limited trial time and see if people can remove its promotional character. Thanks to NCLab, high schools can access a free CAD system in the web browser and other things that make the kids excited about STEM. I realize that even this text here may sound promotional but I would very much appreciate you understanding and help. I promise I will not edit the page myself in the future. Sincerely PavelSolin (talk) 17:45, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
Talkback from Blackmane
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
- Thanks. JamesBWatson (talk) 09:40, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
deletion of Effectrode stub
I would be grateful if you would not delete articles (ref: Effectrode) without justification. I was working on updating this article and then found it had disappeared. Poor etiquette on your part. The article has been substantially edited and contains valid content. Please could you at least inform me or open a dialogue before simply deleting my work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moogolplex (talk • contribs) 11:50, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
- I did not delete the article "without justification". As for informing you, you were informed about the deletion discussion, and knew that it had resulted in a consensus to delete. When you re-created the article you will have been confronted with a prominent notice reminding you of that deletion and of the deletion discussion that led to the deletion. In addition, even if the article had not been a recreation of a deleted one, it did not show significance of its subject, and could have been speedily deleted on those grounds. JamesBWatson (talk) 12:02, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
Please stop deleting my articles
Okay, can you advise what an article needs to "show significance of its subject"? Several 3rd party references from professional and reputable sources were cited in this article. Also, for reference, I examinined Wikipedia for similar articles with similar subject matter, for example Strymon (company). Not only is the deletion of the Effectrode article unjustified, but there is also an obvious inconsistency here. Additionally, the two articles submitted were removed with such zeal and so rapdily there was not sufficient for me or any other peers to edit and improve them. --Moogolplex (talk) 19:23, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
Justin Friesen
Why did you delete the page Justin Friesen without nominating it and bringing it to a discussion? I think more discussion could certainly have been made. (Yohowithrum (talk) 14:31, 12 November 2012 (UTC))
- Because, as you know, it had already been discussed. Wikipedia policy is that, if a deletion discussion has already taken place and a deleted article is re-created without addressing the issues that led to deletion, then we do not spend time on going through another discussion, but rather the article is speedily deleted. (Whether you or I agree or disagree with the policy is irrelevant, but for what it's worth have you considered what would be the consequence of starting a new discussion each time someone ignores the outcome of a deletion discussion? Any disruptive editor who wished to defy consensus could simply re-create the article each time it was discussed, resulting in the article being deleted for one minute every week and existing the rest of the time, while editors would waste their time repeating the same arguments over and over again.) JamesBWatson (talk) 14:42, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
The previous discussions were not based on new evidence of Notability, I thought you had carefully reviewed the situation and understood that. This was't a case of disruption, just notability based on new information. (Yohowithrum (talk) 15:05, 12 November 2012 (UTC))
- Yes. In fact, I actually went to the trouble to state in the deletion log that I had considered your claims on the talk page and that, despite those claims, nothing in the current references suggested any more notability than before. I did that precisely in order to anticipate what you have just said. JamesBWatson (talk) 15:15, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
That is subjective. The claims cover 5+ points on the notability guidelines. Why not air on the side of caution? I understand the "Other stuff exists argument", but there are 1000s of other Canadian Actors/Directors who have similar pages, with 1-4 lines of text and are left alone - just because they were made years ago and slipped through the cracks. Justin's contemporaries over at List of Etobicoke School of the Arts people are chalk full of these types of pages, less notable than friesen. Justin Friesen's page has just been picked on, and is forever stigmatized with these closures. Yohowithrum (talk) 15:20, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
- If you understand the point of WP:OTHERSTUFF then I think you have answered your own argument. JamesBWatson (talk) 15:25, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
This isn't a deletion argument though. This is an argument for the lack of a deletion discussion. Yohowithrum (talk) 15:30, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
- *blink* Reading that "article" made my eyes hurt. Sadly, any suggestion of actual notability was unsourced. Much of the rest was horribly/improperly sourced. This was a burn with fire deletion, and thankfully so. (✉→BWilkins←✎) 15:58, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
This is pretty malicious sounding language guys. You're being pretty condescending and nasty. Relax. It's Wikipedia. Yohowithrum (talk) 16:19, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
(Non) speedy deletion of Mathomatic
First of all, thank you for the speedy deletion of NCLab. I have also proposed to G11-speedy delete Mathomatic, which a non sourced article about a software written by the author of the article (see my post on the talk page). Another admin has declined the speedy deletion with the summary "As reviewing admin, I think this at least somewhat informative, and not entirely promotional, so speedy deletion declined". This suggest that this admin is against removing WP:OR from WP. Looking further, it appears that User:Gesslein, which is the author of the WP article Mathomatic and of the eponymous software states in his user page: "This user is a member of the Association of Inclusionist Wikipedians". The user page User:DGG of the admin who has declined the speedy deletion and the corresponding edit summary suggest that this admin is close to this association.
What shall I do in this situation? In fact, there are several problems.
- If I nominates the article to WP:AFD, all the inclusionists will probably pollute the consensus
- Is it possible to appeal for a declined speedy deletion?
- Do has this admin acted as an admin is supposed to do? If not, what should I do?
--D.Lazard (talk) 14:33, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
- As soon as I read your message as far as "As reviewing admin..." I knew who the admin was. The only time that expression ever appears in Wikipedia is when DGG is declining a deletion. DGG is a reasonable and intelligent administrator, and is not an irrational "inclusionist" like some wikipedia editors, but he is certainly much further towards inclusionism than any other admin I can think of offhand.
- My own view of the article is that it is essentially promotional in character, but borderline for speedy deletion. In fact, I considered deleting it myself before you tagged it, but decided it was not quite blatant enough promotion for me to be sure about doing so.
- In answer to "is it possible to appeal for a declined speedy deletion", it is by no means uncommon for a second speedy deletion nomination to succeed after a first one has been declined. However, this is usually in cases where the first one has been unreasonably declined, most often (though not always) by a non-admin. In a case like this one, where declining the speedy deletion was debatable but not grossly unreasonable, I think the only reasonable way to proceed, if you still want deletion, is to take it to AfD. It sometimes does happen that "all the inclusionists" try to "pollute the consensus", but there is no certainty that that will happen, and if it does there is no certainty that they will succeed. Most admins who review AfD discussions are capable of seeing when a load of people join in a discussion to try to rig the result.
- AfD is by no means certain to result in deletion for this article, but in my opinion the sources cited do not come near to establishing notability, so there is a reasonable chance that it might. JamesBWatson (talk) 15:10, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks. D.Lazard (talk) 16:26, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
Re: Restoration of deleted articles
Thanks for letting me know. It looks like both Pedok and Tamm have know played for the Estonian national team meaning they meet WP:NFOOTBALL, so I won't be renominating them. Cheers. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:08, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, that's what I thought. JamesBWatson (talk) 15:16, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
Talkback
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Thank you for moving my page-in-progress
Thanx for moving my article-in-process to the correct user space. I messed up developing a "user sub-page." My first WP post. sigh. MEMarraMA MEMarraMA (talk) 19:35, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
NCLab Deletion
Hello James! I am advocating STEM Curriculum for Washoe County NV, the NPO I represent, LEAF, uses the NCLab interface for my after-school programs. The wiki page for the lab is important to me since it gives teachers a point of reference when looking at my projects. (the LEAF website: http://nessesque.wix.com/leafoundationnv#!home/mainPage). Would you please give me access to the deleted page so that I may edit it down for approval? I know the Sage worksheets and similar interfaces have pages. I can make sure it is approved, and find the wiki IRC Channel helpful for input so that it is ok before you make a final decision to delete or keep the page. Thank you so much! JordanBlocher (talk) 22:47, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello James, just letting you know I removed the prod from the above article as I think the film is notable. Thank you. Rotten regard Softnow 00:09, 13 November 2012 (UTC)