User talk:Elen of the Roads

I wonder if anyone got your reference....

You're the second person I know of who's read the Lensman series. MSJapan (talk) 22:30, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

User:Orangemike is another. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:05, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

And the answer is

907 mainspace edits. Nobody Ent 22:51, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Your post made me curious, so I went and looked myself up. I seem to have 7954 mainspace edits. I had no idea I had made that many. KillerChihuahua^?!? 22:58, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Just a quick thanks for quick Oversighting. --Anonymous209.6 (talk) 03:59, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Infobox dispute

You once mediated a similar infobox dispute. Can you be objective at Stephen H. Wendover as to whether the infobox is a distraction to the reader, or is helpful to the reader? Both arguments are valid and really more an issue of aesthetics, so a third opinion ... well, a fourth in this case, would be helpful. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 22:00, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

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Mail call

I've dropped you a line. Worm^TT(talk) 16:07, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

More MMA Socks

Just to let you know some more MMA SPA's have shown up, for example Nurple is the New Purple (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Noahco (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) along with Jfgsloeditor (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for which there is an open WP:ANI here. Mtking ^(edits) 17:18, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Got 'em all three, and Noahco's kid brother User:Blio sucks. Nurple and Jfgsloeditor are BStudent0 socks, Noahco is editing on proxies now blocked. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:32, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Nest of 'em?? Us socks come in drawers, not "nests"! Jester of the court (NE sock) 22:37, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I will suggest at the ANI that the 3 pages he created should be WP:G5'ed in line with WP:DENY, I can't believe any of the other !voters will object. Mtking ^(edits) 23:01, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Male call

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Nobody Ent 02:46, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit war

You showed interest in the discussion at Talk:Stephen H. Wendover the other day. As an admin, could you look at this again? Mr. Norton is currently starting an edit war over the infobox, claiming consensus, although the discussion on the talk page IMO shows that there is none. Kraxler (talk) 01:07, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

First track off The Poison

Hello! I've noticed that the name of the first song off the album The Poison is wrong. The real name is "Intro", not "Intro ... My Lifestyle". I tried to change it, but there are two users who do not stop reverting my edits without consulting. So I've been involved in an edit war. An unregistered user changed back the name several times and he added a reference from Last.fm, but I think that is not a reliable source. Moreover, I have added some references to the talk page such as the official BFMV website, itunes, BBC and even a picture of the album.

• [1]
• [2]
• [3]
• [4]
• [5]
• [6]
• [7]

This is so frustrating! I have that CD in my house (I bought it a few years ago because I was a big fan of Bullet For My Valentine) and I can read clearly that the name of the song is just "Intro". So I want to ask you to end this discussion. Thank you. Cristian MH (talk) 13:49, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

No point telling me - I'm not going to edit the article. I'm just trying to stop you getting blocked for edit warring, because no-one seems to agree with you at the moment, which puts you in the wrong Wikipolicy-wise. If you can't get them to communicate on the talkpage, try going to WP:DRN for more eyes on the question. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:53, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Blocked from editing The Poison?

I already agreed to stop editing the track names, and even added more reviews to the reception section since the disbute ended. I have talked with the user on his and my talk page, and I haven't edited anything regarding the tracks since I told them I would stop. I wasn't even warned about an edit war, and I only reverted twice meaning I in no way violated the 3RR. I am requesting that you unblock me from editing The Poison as I did not violate any rules. TJD2 (talk) 14:04, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

I haven't blocked you. I have locked the article so no-one can edit it (see WP:PROTECT), because it kept changing every few hours, and that's no good for our readers. Decide amongst yourselves what is going to go in the article - if necessary go to WP:DRN to get some of the dispute resolution people to help you work it out. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 15:05, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm fine with that; I figured after I posted this that it might be just locked, but wasn't sure as I don't ever log off Wikipedia. As I said, I'm done with the track name argument, and have been for a while. I agree with you about the constant updates. Thank you for addressing my concern.TJD2 (talk) 16:02, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

That's cool. You should have no difficulties editing anywhere else, my locking the article does not reflect upon yourself. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:17, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Urgent intervention on WP:ANI

Dear "Elen of the Roads"

[8]

I can't take this user's abuse anymore. If well intentioned editors can get harassed like this, I don't want to continue at Wikipedia. RobertRosen (talk) 13:57, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

There have been some further developments. Which are on WP:ANI. I'm seeing if the user and I can call a truce and ignore/avoid each other in future. RobertRosen (talk) 21:48, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

He's a "reformed" socker who continued to indulge in uncivil disruptive editing with other editors (including an admin) even after being unblocked. In the past 5 months the only 2 articles he has worked on are those in which I reverted controversial BLP or poorly sourced/copyrighted material. Can you advise me on how to proceed because I want all this to stop. RobertRosen (talk) 05:57, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

RFAR

Could you explain more specifically why you struck out your vote?--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 15:42, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, no problem. I went back to the basic principles, and came up with a line of reasoning that looks like this:-

The following policies/customs/practice apply here

• If two or more editors are going at it hammer and tongs in a legit content dispute and will not stop, they can all be ibanned or tbanned to damp it down
• If two or more editors spend their time following each other around the project sniping, they can be ibanned
• If one editor follows another editor around persistently, for a long time, sniping, that is disruptive
• If editors are editing in a disruptive manner in an area, they can be sanctioned with tbans, blocks and bans
• If editors are trolling, they shoud be blocked
• If someone is being trolled by socks, the socks should be blocked
• If someone supports the trolling from the sock, they should be blocked

Let's leave out the two sockmasters for the moment. Focus on the editors who have legitimate accounts.

IIf the users with legitimate accounts were doing nothing wrong, they shouldn't have been ibanned.

If Mathsci is equally bad in how he interacts with the legitimate accounts, a normal (two way) iban would have been the right remedy

If Mathsci was behaving well but the other editors included in the iban were engaged in following Mathsci around sniping, the other editors should have been blocked or tbanned for being disruptive.

If the other editors were trolling, they should have been blocked for trolling.

If they were supporting the trolling socks, they should have been blocked for that.

At the end of the day, a one way interaction ban would appear to be the wrong remedy, but I don't have enough processed data to decide what the right remedy is, so I struck my vote. It seems to me that the issue of trolling socks, and the issue of the behaviour of the legitimate editors, is getting conflated, but the remedies proposed are not dealing with that. What should have happened if Arbcom was not going to support the original AE sanction was an examination of the behaviour of all parties against the checklist above, to determine where all the behaviours fall. Since everything on Wikipedia becomes stale so quickly, I don't know if there is still the opportunity to do this. Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:41, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

My initial statement included evidence of the inciting incident for the AE case that led to this sanction. I had not interacted with Mathsci for weeks when he suddenly accused me of tag-teaming and meatpuppetry without any evidence on an unrelated AE case. There is nothing in my reaction that I think was inappropriate. All I can really say is that I probably should have just ignored the comment about me so as to not allow any room for hostility, one-sided though it may have been, but I can't say for certain that it would have changed anything.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 18:37, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Things on Wikipedia become stale quickly, but is there any reason to assume that has happened here? In his comments in his user talk and on the request page, SilkTork mentions that if Arbcomm were to examine the questions you asked, what it needs to examine would date back at least to 2009. Having waited a few weeks shouldn't matter when examining an issue spanning three years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.108.63.44 (talk) 21:18, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

78.108.63.44 is a tor node. Mathsci (talk) 21:44, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

While we are on these historical matters, perhaps you could clear up something that has been puzzling us for some time. Mathsci is insistant that banned User:Echigo mole is identical with User:A.K.Nole, the link being a group of Vodafone addresses. He cites you as the source of this information. I believe he is referring to the incident in December 2010 when Mathsci got User:Mikemikev coomunity banned for disruption at AN/I [9] and then decided later that he was wrong? Anyway, perhaps you could comment on some related issues. (1) Should Mathsci be disclosing this sort of information at all? (2) Are you satisfied that you are being correctly quoted? (3) Has ArcComm indeed determined that A.K.Nole is indeed Echigo Mole? (4) Are you and ArbComm satisfied that the other users accused by Mathsci, such as User:Quotient group, User:Junior Wrangler and User:Penny Birch are equally guilty? If so, why has none of them also been banned? If not, then why is Mathsci permitted to make these frequently repeated allegations? I do hope you can clarify matters. Koi No Yokan (talk) 22:40, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello Mr Nole (I presume it is you, and not just one of your party). I'm afraid I was just the messenger back then - it was User:Shell Kinney who as I recall actually handled the Checkuser stuff when I joined. However, I am interested in your side of the story. Do you feel you were hard done by, and why did you decide to respond by starting this sock party, which is surely a drain on your time and energy? What do you hope to achieve by it? Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:35, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Elen, since you state that you didn't have enough data, why didn't you guys advocate opening a full case after striking your vote? In fact, after Silk Tork did some investigating on his own, you had more data than you had when you first voted. If you needed more, then wouldn't further investigation have been appropriate? Cla68 (talk) 23:50, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Largely because there was a bit of a convo going on between a couple of us over what was the best thing to do, and various other folks were hopping up and down like this, and on Wikipedia anything over 24 hours old is stale in some people's eyes (they should try working for the Revenue - six years isn't long enough to write off a debt). In the end, it's all been archived...until the next time, which I'm sure won't be long in coming. Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:00, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, since I don't feel that being one-way interaction banned just for having an argument in an AE thread is very justified, I guess you can expect an amendment motion soon. And, as obsessive as the editor at the center of all this is, I think you can expect more from that quarter, without my involvement. You guys really should have ended it now, instead of tabling it for later. Cla68 (talk) 05:03, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

If you wish to appeal your ban, then arbitrators have already indicated that WP:AE is the place to do that. Here's the template: Template:Arbitration enforcement appeal. The remarks you are making about the "other editor at the center of all this" are not permissible until you make that appeal and your sanctions are lifted. The editor that started off the whole chain of problems was Zeromus1. I alerted Amalthea as checkuser in private on 9 September. Only in November did it become evident who was operating the account. Mathsci (talk) 05:26, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

sigh * sips whiskey * — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cla68 (talk • contribs)

Ah yes the next time ...[10][11] Mathsci (talk) 04:50, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Call of Duty template

One more thing; users at the Call of Duty article keep reverting my work claiming they "don't need sources". They state the game Call of Duty: World at War is a part of the Call of Duty: Black Ops series, when in actuality although it is in the same universe, it is not in the same series. I've looked into this as well, and no sources support this claim. Nor have I ever heard COD1,2 and 3 reffered to as the "Original Trilogy". The way I see it without a source, these claims of WaW being in the Black Ops series are inaccurate. TJD2 (talk) 22:23, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Replied

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Nobody Ent 23:06, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Another one

Think there is a new one ..... 65 Edits Per Hour (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Mtking ^(edits) 18:47, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

You got it...:) This guy is getting to be a pain in the posterior. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:53, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Mtking ^(edits) 19:12, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Block expungement policy

I don't yet know when or if I will get to it, but I wanted you to know I added a comment of yours to my To-do list. In short, I'd like to see a procedure enabled to expunge a block from a block list, where the parties agree that the original block was in error. While some cases, such as your example, are clear-cut, the boundaries are tricky, so I'm not ready to propose until I'm ready to spend some time on it.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 21:22, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

That's the tricky thing. Where do you draw the line beyond the situation where the admin immediately says 'oh dear, wrong dude' or equivalent. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:30, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Would this review any blocks made back in the "old days" (say, 2006) that were questionable? I have one of those, a "I blocked myself" block, and a "Oops, my bad" block, plus associated annotation. --Rschen7754 22:32, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

That would be for the community to decide. My alternate account User:Elen on the Roads was blocked because someone thought it was an impersonator, which amuses me no end, but it does seem unfair generally that a block that all sides agree was totally based on some mistake, cannot be properly deleted. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:03, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

It's technically enabled - I tried blocking my bot and testing it, but of course the consensus isn't here to use it. --Rschen7754 23:04, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

I thought all you can do is revdel it, and that still leaves a record in the block log. I did't think you can oversight it....???? --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:16, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

It's only revdel. I don't have OS, so I can't comment on if it can be done that way. --Rschen7754 23:20, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

It should leave a struck through line, so anyone can see that this editor was blocked, but not the reason. Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:41, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh, okay. I did my test a while ago, so I remember it did something, but didn't remember exactly what. :) --Rschen7754 23:45, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Actually may be wrong. I forget - I have oversight, so I can always see where an edit has been revision deleted

[12] - it shows that a block happened at a specific time but everything else is blocked out, at least for me. If I look at the revision specifically, I can see everything as an admin. (Don't worry, I'll undo this :) ) --Rschen7754 00:04, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Don't worry, there isn't a problem with testing (I've got a load of revdels of move logs, testing something for someone last week). Do you think it's worse to see a block with no reason? Or a block with a reason followed by an apologetic unblock. I wonder if you can oversight the block log. Half a mo.....Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:12, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

What do you see now - I've oversighted it. Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:14, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

It's completely gone. There's one block and 2 unblocks. --Rschen7754 00:26, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Yay. So if there was a policy, an admin could ask an oversighter to oversight his snafu. And if there was a different policy, some community decision making process could ask an oversighter to remove a bad block (an error of judgement, not a complete foul up). Could you check your own admin log, to see if it has disappeared from there as well. Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:30, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

The block has, but the revdel is still visible (though I suppose it could be OS'ed as well). However, clicking on the associated link results in "The action you have requested is limited to users in one of the groups: Oversighters, afttest-hide." --Rschen7754 00:34, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Peanut gallery notes You'd wanna disappear the unblock, too. (Us peons can count) NE Ent 00:38, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

FTR, I don't want it completely disappeared. I would like it if there were some record, somewhere, that includes all the blocks, even the inadvertent ones, to help make sure the system isn't gamed. But make it so that the block log easily viewable would contain only those that were in the oopsie category. I don't even want to remove those where many admins would say they wouldn't block in those circumstances, and the original blocking admin agrees it was a little overzealous. Leave that one there. I want to remove only those like the "Oops I thought it was an impersonator, don't I feel foolish", or "oh yeah, that comment was directed at you, not by you". Some of this is personal. I have a clean block log, plan to keep it that way, and would be royally pissed if someone accidentally blocked me. If I'm skating near the edge, and someone blocks me, even if many wouldn't that's on me. But if someone misreads a diff, or clicks the wrong button, I'd sure like it if that could be removed from the main block log, and I'd be happy that it remains in the longer record. I want to be able to say "I have a clean block log". I don't want to have to say, well, when you look at my block log, here's what you need to know..."--SPhilbrick(Talk) 01:01, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Of course there should be a method to remove a mistaken block from the main log (although I agree there should be a publicy viewable audit trail somewhere). Another point is that sometimes a misguided admin blocks a user, then unblocks them a few hours later when an ANI discussion shows they were mistaken. The problem is that I have seen a couple of cases where the unblock was dripping with a "you got away with it this time" attitude in the unblock edit summary, when the summary should have said "community consensus is that the block was totally wrong, sorry". Any new scheme needs a way for another admin to annotate the record with the correct summary, however, firm guidelines would be needed to reduce the amount of wasted time in considering "review my block log" requests from the usual suspects. Johnuniq (talk) 02:22, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

To my mind in the second instance, you would want an audit trail of the admin's bad block and subsequent conduct (in case he made a habit of it). Another admin could revdel the unblock summary, but without a technical change they wouldn't be able to amend it. You could do a hack by reblocking and unblocking with a better summary, then having the original block and the reblock oversighted, but I don't think that's at all a good solution.Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:48, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

• As the first part of the process, I'd like to suggest a change to the Oversight policy to allow suppression of a block/unblock entry in the block log where the following conditions are met:

1. The block resulted from a factual error(admin has blocked the wrong user) not from an error of judgement on the part of the admin (admin intended to block the user, but block is not supported by policy/consensus).
2. The admin who made the block is the one requesting suppression
3. The user has already been unblocked and advised that suppression will be requested

Technically, Arbcom isn't supposed to make policy (before anyone makes that point), but I'm just proposing this as an admin who has made a screw up. I think it would be preferable to separate this out from developing a policy on errors of judgement, as this is much more clear cut and should be less contentious. Thoughts anyone? Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:06, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

So I assume this would include admin blocking self. --Rschen7754 20:13, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

No, that would definitely be excluded Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:26, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

ANI response

I wroting the response your complaint on ANI. --B767-500 (talk) 01:05, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

and another ?

what about Keep UFC Articles (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) ? Mtking ^(edits) 19:20, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

.....and another one gone, and another one gone...another one bites the dust! (although Black Kite was the one that got him) --Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:32, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

WP:RFAR

You might take notice of my discussion at User talk:Courcelles. I appreciate your open-minded and thoughtful consideration during what was/is obviously an uncomfortable situation. Of course, the decision is still entirely within the domain of ArbCom, but I felt the information may be of use to you. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 20:20, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

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Help with upset editor

Hi Elen of the Roads. I am involved in an AFD discussion here that has gone strange. User:Qworty has struck my text and accused me of being the blocked paid editor Morning277. I see from the investigation here that you have recently been involved, so I was hoping you could assist. I'm a new editor and have made less than 20 edits to discussions. I've never edited an article. I'm happy to turn over my account for a user investigation. Can you please help? BeyondKneesReach (talk) 04:46, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

I have asked Qworty to file a request for a check in the appropriate place, as that is the correct operating procedure. Making allegations in the middle of a deletion discussion is not the way to go. However, if you are a new editor, I'm a duck, so would you care to advise me as to any previous editing you have done. You can do so privately by email if you prefer. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:47, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

I just wanted to note that several editors have commented about several aspects of Qworty's conduct and editing practices and they seem very resistent. Many can be seen be reading through the users talk page and checking out the contribs. It might be time for an intervention. 138.162.0.46 (talk) 14:21, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Ok. I'm happy to discuss here. I've been a member since Sep. 25 but I made my first real edit on Nov. 9, although I did make one small edit to an article from my IP address before I created an account. That was probably a year ago and I assume it will show in the check user. My primary interest is in policy, so I've done quite a bit of reading in the Wikipedia space but haven't made any contributions in that regard. Out of boredom I have spent several hours watching discussions on the Wikipedia IRC help channel. That's my full Wiki bio BeyondKneesReach (talk) 17:09, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

User_talk:Qworty#John_Bassette_Notability_tag seems to go against WP:NPA. My interest in Qworty started with User_talk:Qworty#Suzon_Fuks where in his zeal to combat COI he assumed that a drama student somewhat incompetently editing an article about a drama specialist (for a coursework assignment) was a WP:SPA showing WP:COI and added an incorrect and confusing banner without any prior enquiry or discussion, in an apparent lack of WP:AGF and in contravention of the guidelines at Wikipedia:COI#Noticeboards_and_templates ("First approach...", "If you are sure..."). PamD 17:53, 15 November 2012 (UTC) amended 18:17, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

I would like to encourage you...

to run for ArbCom again. It's a thankless task, and I'm certain it's a terrible timesink, but I'd feel better if you were running. Beyond My Ken (talk) 09:29, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Hear hear Worm^TT(talk) 09:33, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

• I'll be honest, I had been very much in two minds about running anyway - I have been very brassed off by certain events. Then, it looks like "civility woo-woo" is going to form a key issue for this election, and while I have no concern about anyone asking my position (see User:Elen of the Roads/On editing in a collaborative project where I've been working up thoughts I initially expressed at my RfA), I have a real concern about how the debate might be conducted. It is (in my opinion, I'm sure all politicians everywhere would disagree) low politics to pick on individuals to highlight the issues of the day, creating victims or bogeymen usually without the consent of the individuals concerned. Certain parties have indicated that they intend to ask why did you not sanction User:this user for this statement or that phrase relating to certain contentious discussions on sanctions from the recent past. This has the potential to turn into a rerun of the original request to sanction, which is simply not fair to any third party being picked on for the next War of Jennifer's Ear when he never wanted to be Joe the Plumber in the first place.

• I appreciate that this is a bit of a convoluted statement, probably makes no sense to anyone else, and I'm probably worrying about nothing. The community by and large has good sense and would probably see through this kind of behaviour if anyone was to try it. And the other community issue - the role and structure of Arbcom itself - is an excellent topic for discussion, ranging from replace it with a couple of WMF staffers to triple the size and create "lower courts". --Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:20, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

• It makes sense to one who hangs out in the unsavory gutters of Wikipedia. If you're willing to continue to serve, that'd be great; reading User:AGK/ACE2012, it's certainly understandable if you choose not to. As regards to any "why did (didn't) you..." questions, I'd suggest approximately Because based on the information available to me it was in the best interests of Wikipedia. I explained my reasoning to the best of my ability at the time of closing; further discussion at this point is simply not fair to to the parties involved in the case. Make template, subst as required... Sure, you might lose some of the ArbCom-make-policy-by-fiat crowd, but I'm confident (hopeful?) the grown-up vote will prevail. NE Ent 13:49, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

• I had not seen that essay before, Elen. I'm glad you linked it. It is good to see we share many common ideas. I had already decided to support if you were to make another run, but those words help solidify my support. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 13:53, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

• Please run again. You do this difficult job very well. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 04:21, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

• +1 I agree with all those above. I was going to try and write something profound to encourage you - but then I found out most of what I would have said is already said better, here. Begoon ^talk 04:38, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

I did not vote for you when you were elected. I would like the opportunity to remedy that.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:17, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I never thought of it, but I suppose if I had, I would probably not have expected you to vote for me, as you had expressed concerns at my RfA. I'm pleased you don't think I've made a complete hash of it - it often feels as an Arb as if one is reduced to picking the least worst option. Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:37, 18 November 2012 (UTC) (inserted italics - realised that sentence could be read two ways Elen of the Roads (talk) 10:33, 18 November 2012 (UTC))

• I don't suppose you know me from Adam, but I came here to say that I voted for you in 2010 and hope to have the opportunity to do so again. I may not agree with you all the time, but I see yours as a consistent voice of reason and I believe you care deeply about the project. Fwiw. Rivertorch (talk) 06:39, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

• I notice you have yet to add your name to the pile, so I assume you are mulling it over. No one could blame you, it is generally a thankless job. While I sometimes grump at the Committee (a favorite pass-time of many Wikipedians), and freely admit I should grump a bit less, the committee is better because of you. I guess you have to ask if you are better because of it. Whatever you decide, thanks for what you have done. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:22, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

• Voice of reason. I hope you will consider running again. (olive (talk) 17:32, 19 November 2012 (UTC))

Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2012/Candidates#Elen_of_the_Roads

• • Good to hear. Hope it didn't take too many pints to talk yourself into another two years of bludgeoning. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:43, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

ANI

I was looking to see the denouement of the Kraxler ANI at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents, but it is gone, I do not see it in the archives either. Can you find it for me? --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 14:59, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

• (talk page stalker) Using the search feature, it should be one of these: [13] Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:03, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive774#User_Kraxler_using_abusive_language_and_deleting_talk_page_information NE Ent 15:22, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank You

I wanted to thank you for your comment to Qworty regarding the level of hostility in his/her interactions with me. You are quite right; there have been no real conflicts between me and other editors in the past 2-3 years. This recent attack on over 30 articles I've created and/or edited has been quite a shock, and I've bit my lip and tried not to react in kind. Whole reference sections and properly-constructed bibliographies have been deleted as "unsourced", then the articles have been nominated for deletion as "non-notable". I welcome any attention you can give to the issue (understanding that your comment did not mean you were taking sides or anything).Rosencomet (talk) 19:47, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Elen, could you perhaps have a look at the recent history of Association for Consciousness Exploration? I've acted boldly. PamD 07:21, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

While the notability of the subject is a little marginal, that merge discussion was closed five years ago at the time Rosencomet's editing was being examined by Arbcom. Popping up now and announcing that the consensus is to merge is just plain disruptive. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:34, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

I would like to thank you for looking into this matter, and for your actions. I would ask you to look at Starwood Festivals Qworty edits as well. I would also like to point out that Qworty's Starwood crusade, as another editor called it, has affected over thirty articles. Three have already been deleted as non-notable; at least ten more have been nominated. In several cases it has included wholesale deletion of entire reference sections and bibliographies as "unsourced", and other IMO questionable practices. There have been many tags for non-notability on prominent authors such as Patricia Monaghan and Raymond Buckland, and musicians/bands like Amampondo and Badi Assad. The COI tags are also problematic; they all seem to be assumptions that an appearance at the Starwood Festival, even twenty or thirty years ago, means I should not be allowed to edit the article, although the arbcom decided no such thing. Also, some of the articles are of people that have NEVER appeared there, like Badi Assad and Prem Das. This has every indication, IMO, of an attack by someone I have locked horns with in the past editing under a new name. You'll find a list on my talk page.Rosencomet (talk) 17:09, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I wondered if he had a previous incarnation. Not a problem obviously, as long as the other account is retired and not blocked. Don't get me wrong - I'm no fan of spam - but there isn't a problem if an article started a bit spammy, and got improved over time. And tagging Monaghan and Buckland for non-notability is just nonsense. I've been thinking his edits warrant a closer look. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 20:07, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Further check shows the account was created in 2007 under this username, so maybe you've had a run-in with him before. I've restored Raymond Buckland and am adding references - Google Books is a great source in this area. Should you have a copy of any of the varied "encyclopaedias of witchcraft" I believe they will be evidence of Buckland's status within the community. I'll see if I can track down some publishers stats as well. A lot of the others you list I know almost nothing about. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:23, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

I greatly appreciate your efforts. As to his/her identity, there are a few possibilities, some of them blocked. I was never convinced, for instance, that we tracked down all of Mattisse's sockpuppets[14]. (She was the one who caused much of my problem in 2006, first demanding citations of non-controversial material, then accusing me of link-farming when I supplied them.)

I guess the ones actually nominated for deletion are the most critical. Of those, Donald Michael Kraig, Phyllis Curott, Baba Raul Canizares, Anodea Judith, Kenny Klein and the South African band Amampondo are probably the most ridiculous to call non-notable. A look at the pre-Qworty versions will demonstrate that easily. Which is not to say that the sourcing doesn't merit more work, just to be fair.Rosencomet (talk) 16:23, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Someone would have noticed if he was Mattisse, believe me. And he seems to have taken my advice and moved on to bringing some old articles up to snuff. Only Donald Michael Kraig and Kenny Klein are actually up for deletion - I've never heard of either, but it won't hurt to look for sources. I'll finish Buckland over the weekend - I'm surprised it was in such a poor state, there are a lot of sources about Buckland and Gardner particularly. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:07, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry; some have had their deletion nominations removed. Here is an updated list of articles Qworty has nominated for deletion that still have the tag. Of course, you might not agree that none of these should be so tagged; frankly, I have already said as much about Brushwood. I don't intend to sway you, just to ask you to review their pre-Qworty versions and see what you think. Thanks again.:

Louis Martinie, David Jay Brown, Luisah Teish, Patricia Monaghan, M. Macha Nightmare, Trance Mission, Matthew Abelson, Kenny Klein, Brushwood Folklore Center, Donald Michael Kraig, LaSara FireFox and Ian Corrigan.

OK. I've taken a look at them all. There's nothing to stop you contributing in the AfDs by the way, particularly if you have any more sources, and from replacing deleted content if you have a reliable source. From the top of the list

• Patricia Monaghan AfD is heading for keep, meets WP:AUTHOR
• Raymond Buckland not at AfD and I am working on it
• Amampondo snow kept at AfD (I think Qworty is unfamiliar with the world music scene, to be fair)
• Badi Assad I have removed the tags - you removed the suspect coi editing (someone kept replacing the article with the content of her website) and there are reviews in world music publications
• Prem Das I have removed COI tag but left the notability tag, as I think notability is not well evidenced and another couple of sources supporting notability wouldn't hurt
• Donald Michael Kraig I have opined on the AfD that I think he meets WP:CREATIVE based on the Raven Grimassi reference in the Encyclopedia of Wicca and Witchcraft
• Phyllis Curott Removed four tags, article could do with more content but subject has demonstrated notability from the outset
• Baba Raul Canizares I have removed the COI tag but left the notability tag as there is not much in the article. You can help by finding some sources that demonstrate notability. If you find a source, you can restore some of the deleted content, otherwise someone else may nominate him at AfD (in fact, somebody has)
• Anodea Judith I have removed the refimprove tag as the small amount of content is cited. Subject is definitely notable. The long list of references seems excessive for the two lines of content, so I presume it sources some removed content. If you want to add back any removed content, include an inline citation.
• Kenny Klein Is he better known for his music? I can find very little that suggests the wider world has noticed him
• Louis Martinie AfD is debating either creating an article for the book he co-authored or redirecting to the article on Sallie Ann Glassman
• David Jay Brown at AfD. Doesn't look as if anyone can find evidence of notability
• Luisah Teish at Afd, should be kept. You should opine there
• M. Macha Nightmare At AfD. If I were closing (which I'm definitely not) I would keep
• Trance Mission At AfD and likely to be deleted. Another editor has decided to improve it, and seems to have made things rather worse
• Matthew Abelson no comments at AfD. Really doubt this chap is notable in Wikipedia definition
• Brushwood Folklore Center you've already said yourself that notability is pretty marginal
• LaSara FireFox At Afd - Steve with his Highbeam account has turned up that she was interviewed by the Chicago-Sun-Times in 2005 and her column in New Witch magazine got a mention in the Washington Post in 2003. I have opined that the CST article should take her over the bar.
• Ian Corrigan At AfD - doesn't look like this guy is notable in Wikipedia terms

The David Jay Brown article has been deleted. I thought it ended a bit early since the "vote" (I know it isn't really) was tied, and the editor who closed it referred to Brown as part of the "Crackpot Fringe". Hopefully someone without my perceived COI will recreate it one day. Oh well.

In the meantime, there are a few of Qworty's deletion nominations that really should, IMO, be closed: Trance Mission, M. Macha Nightmare, Kenny Klein, LaSara FireFox and Luisah Teish have overwhelmingly "Keep" comments. Could you or someone else please consider closing these? Thank you.Rosencomet (talk) 20:09, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Just FYI - M. Macha Nightmare, LaSara FireFox and Luisah Teish have already closed. The decision on each was Keep. Trance Mission (which was extended) and Kenny Klein are still open. Rosencomet (talk) 14:58, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/BStudent0

Given the latest MtPrincess (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), is there a range block that might help out ? Mtking ^(edits) 20:05, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

one other question any link between this and Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/A Nobody or Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Temporary for Bonaparte Mtking ^(edits) 20:14, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

CUs who knew A Nobody better than I say they do not believe either Temporary for Bonaparte or BStudent0 is him. I've been blocking IPs sequentially - at this rate I could end up blocking every campus in Ohio. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:29, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Followup

Did you get to this [15]? NE Ent 00:36, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Haven't had time yet. If someone else wants to pick it up, feel free. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:00, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

No worries. You get to when you get to it. Ents famously prefer not to be hasty. Was mostly checking to make sure nothing was stuck in a spam filter somewhere. NE Ent 01:04, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

User:Bull-Doser

I promised to not post again on his talk page and I won't. But these two edits [16][17] are concerning. I don't think he understands the message you posted two weeks ago that he cannot edit while he's blocked. Or maybe he thought he could legitimately edit with his old User:Take Me Higher account.

Contrary to what some people may think, I don't necessarily want Bull-Doser to stay blocked for eternity. It would be great to see Bull-Doser becoming a positive contributor someday. I think he has the potential to bring a lot to Wikipedia if only he would listen to others for a change instead of living in his world. But edits such as these two recent ones coupled with his lack of interaction with others makes me think that he's not ready yet to be back. Farine (talk) 04:02, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

• I've been following this one since day one, and I tend to agree that there appears to be an incapacity to comprehend. It isn't about willingness, it is about ability. Sutble, but real. I had declined an earlier request for different reasons, but the exchanges all over the talk page speak for themselves. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 04:10, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
• The Take Me Higher account is blocked so he can't use it. He just seems very clueless, and so far he's not particularly listening to some of the explanations. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:03, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

A brownie for you!

Just because. StAnselm (talk) 06:07, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so kindly :) And virtual brownies contain no sugar! Its all good. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:05, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Yay!

I was worried it wasn't going to happen. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:26, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

There was some concern here also. This will be an "interesting" election, with certain tactical considerations to voting. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 05:15, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

• I've hit something of a timing snag. I wasn't intending to run, and because of that arranged to go on holiday for four days from tomorrow (hubby and I are going to Edinburgh for a late birthday treat). I then allowed myself to be talked into running (you know who you are, damn you!) at a point where outside activities have eaten up my time (if I say I'm heading up a project that involves building work and a deadline and a health and safety course with a written exam....). So I'm not going to get all the questions - most of the questions even - answered. Just have to see how that goes; lacking the ability to clone myself, there's not much else I can do. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:37, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't bother me; I don't have any questions. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 12:05, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, as Otter told Flounder in Animal House 'You fucked up .... you trusted us.' I suggest posting a note on your candidate page saying you'll be offline on {{ engvar | default=holiday | en-us=vacation }} during the question period. NE Ent 13:00, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I'll see what I can get done and post that note this evening. Elen of the Roads (talk) 14:17, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

For the record, the tree shaping case is nothing personal; I didn't even realize that it was the case you drafted. --Rschen7754 22:08, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

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Enjoy Yourself

Just wanted to take a moment to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving!Rosencomet (talk) 12:42, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Notification of statement

This is to notify you that you have been named in a statement issued by the arbitrators not running for re-election, regarding the recent leaks from arbcom-l. If you have comments regarding the statement, please post them to the Arbitration Committee's Noticeboard talk page at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Statement regarding recent leaks from arbcom-l. For the Arbitration Committee, Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 05:32, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Elen, who did you leak the private emails to? Cla68 (talk) 07:05, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Please resign

Elen, please resign from the Arbcom and your adminship, effectively immediately. 24.61.9.111 (talk) 07:49, 26 November 2012 (UTC)