User talk:Jclemens

Welcome, correspondents If you're here because I deleted an article you think should be undeleted, please read this first and remember--Most of the time, I didn't write the text that appears in the deletion summary.
N.B. I don't respond well to either fawning or abuse. Talk to me like a peer, assume good faith, and you'll find I reciprocate in my helpfulness.

Functionary Assistance My ability to help as a checkuser, oversighter, or arbitrator in individual matters is currently limited by my positional and non-Wikipedia obligations. For non-trivial assistance, especially that which requires extensive consideration of private correspondence, you will likely get a faster response by asking another functionary.

Position Essays may help you understand my point of view with regard to...

• Notability of Fictional Topics
• Articles for Deletion
• Blocks
• My RfA Standards

Administrator Goals Doing my best to improve the tiny little wedge in the top center:

The GAN Newsletter (November 2012)

The WikiProject Good articles Newsletter Volume III, No. 2 – November 2012 For past newsletters click here

In This Issue Request for Comment: An RFC about the Backlog Elimination Drives has been started this month. Go and voice your opinions! Featured editorial: A Matter of Time: The Future of Backlog Elimination Drives Project News: Over 345 unreviewed articles, 13 at reassessment Good Articles of the Month GA Task Forces: A calmed GA community awaiting for an RFC Member News: 223 members of the GA Wikiproject Read this newsletter Single-page Unsubscribe Newsletter delivered by ENewsBot (info) · 3 November 2012

ArbCom elections

Hi there,

I just took a look at the candidates page for the upcoming ArbCom elections, and was disappointed to see you're not on it. Am I right in thinking you're standing down and not running again for ArbCom? That seems to be the case with most of the current arbitrators - if I read the page correctly, only Newyorkbrad and David Fuchs are running again. And I can understand why, given what a stressful position it must be, and all the hatred you receive as a result. But your departure strikes me as particularly regrettable, given the circumstances and that you've only been there one year - it looks like you've been hounded out by the mob. For what it's worth, I hope you know that there are many of us who think you're one of the best guys on the Committee, and that ArbCom needs more like you. I believe if you ran again, you would be re-elected. Nominations close on the 20th, so there's still time to reconsider. Thanks for reading, and if you won't reconsider, thanks for your service to the community. Robofish (talk) 23:41, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

A slight correction--I've been elected twice to two one-year terms, so I will have served the equivalent of one complete term at the conclusion of the year. Thank you for your kind words--I do not plan to let the nomination clock run out without a definitive statement on my candidacy one way or another. Jclemens (talk) 00:24, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I trust my recent edits will answer your concerns to your satisfaction? Jclemens (talk) 06:55, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

• RE: my question: thanks for the answer, interesting. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:46, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
  • You're welcome. Jclemens (talk) 02:01, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 19

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Pilot (Eureka), you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Eureka (TV series), Savant and Henry Deacon (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:44, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Captain Underpants AFD

Because you participated in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Captain Underpants and the Preposterous Plight of the Purple Potty People you might want to participate in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Adventures of Captain Underpants. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:09, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

More Detail

I realize that you probably will decline to answer this question, and if that is the case I completely understand. However, I figure it can't hurt to ask. I notice several remarks you made, such as:

• ...Committee solidarity is a worthwhile goal, but I haven't really seen it in practice lately, and for reasons that you, Risker, are directly aware of, so the question has a good bit of inherent irony. If I am reelected, I will continue to do what I've always done: Acknowledge the decisions of the majority, while not pretending that my own opinion is malleable on the basis of the rest of the committee's actions. The committee does not speak ex cathedra on anything, and is wrong a good bit of the time. Pretending otherwise does no one any favors...

• ...Well, I used to think that off-wiki discussions allowed for more candor, for arbitrators to simply exchange ideas as peers, but recent turns of events have made me question whether that is even achievable in the face of serious disagreements over the best course forward for the encyclopedia...

• ...More subtly, I also did not intend the level of division within the committee caused by the phrasing I chose. That's something that the community as a whole will not see directly, but it's something that was real, and yet another unintended consequence...

I feel that to some degree the community has a right to know what is going on with the Committee. Can you give any details on what the problems are, or who supports a certain position? The details of how the members reacted to recent events may be important in choosing who to elect. Thanks for your time. 71.236.188.255 (talk) 22:13, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your inquiry. You are absolutely right that there are more stories to be told, but while I may be privy to such information, I do not have the unique right or responsibility to share it. I've been informed that there may be a disclosure from the committee members not running for reelection over one matter that is pertinent to the upcoming election. Jclemens (talk) 22:39, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

While I would expect committee members to be in chorus when the evidence unequivocally supports a specific sanction, for more complex matters, it is best they aren't for only then can we expect a prudent, metered and fair outcome which hopefully comes from a collaborative decision making process.--MONGO 04:02, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Notification of statement

This is to notify you that you have been named in a statement issued by the arbitrators not running for re-election, regarding the recent leaks from arbcom-l. If you have comments regarding the statement, please post them to the Arbitration Committee's Noticeboard talk page at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Statement regarding recent leaks from arbcom-l. For the Arbitration Committee, Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 05:32, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Done, thanks. Jclemens (talk) 05:37, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

So, for those of you following things from here, here are a couple of wonderful questions to ask...

• To every candidate: Did you received all or part of the Arbcom-L emails? If so, what did you do about it? When? Jclemens (talk) 06:14, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
• To the arbitrators not voting on the statement, AGK, Courcelles, PhilKnight, and SilkTork: Was there something in particular that prevented your support of the statement as posted? Jclemens (talk) 06:14, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

• Considering three of them were sound asleep at the time frame the motion was passed and debated, that would probably be one reason. SirFozzie (talk) 06:45, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

For the rest of the voting constituency, I think it appropriate to express my disappointment with how this matter has been handled. One of the roadblocks to handling this as an internal matter has been my unwillingness to agree to a non-public resolution until there was an accounting for the origin--not distribution (who did the gmail anonymous redistribution) but the origin (how the email got into non-arbitrator hands in the first place)--of the leaked email. Until the statement was posted earlier tonight, I had no knowledge that Elen had admitted that she was to blame for the redistribution of the whole email, instead of the one-sentence quote that she had admitted to previously. Had she done so earlier, accepted responsibility for her breach of confidentiality, and bowed out of the election, I was prepared to likewise bow out in the interests of encouraging a dignified and quiet solution to the matter, yet one that dealt with both the perceived issue with my original email and the lack of appropriate conduct involved in leaking it to non-arbitrators. I communicated this willingness to the unrecused committee members, but obviously, nothing came of it. The community has expressed its concern with arbitrators email leaking before, and it has a right to know whether someone entrusted with its secrets is willing to violate that confidentiality. Jclemens (talk) 06:48, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

A number of other members of the Committee don't appear to be very happy with you at the moment. Do you think you could try to patch things up somehow? Cla68 (talk) 07:04, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

I offered to withdraw from the election quietly if they certified that the hole was plugged. But the way the statement was worded--that my saying something on list that people were offended by was at all relevant to another arbitrator's decision to leak that email--should be a very good indicator of how the rest of the committee views me at the moment. Jclemens (talk) 07:08, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and for what it's worth, if you have any ideas, I'm all ears. Jclemens (talk) 07:08, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

In my experience, when one has offended someone, the remedy that usually stands the best chance of working is an apology. I'm not necessarily judging that what you did was wrong, I'm just saying that that is one way to mend fences. Cla68 (talk) 07:16, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Ah, basics are always the best, eh? I'd have to post at least four separate follow-up emails, which I just might do... but it'd be listening to one side of a conversation. Jclemens (talk) 07:29, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

"I offered to withdraw from the election quietly if they certified that the hole was plugged" - what makes now any different? --Rschen7754 07:09, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Is the hole plugged? Jclemens (talk) 07:12, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

What difference does that make? I'm not following. --Rschen7754 07:14, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

I volunteered to resign withdraw quietly if I could be assured the hole was plugged. It's now not quiet, and the hole isn't yet plugged. If the one still-attainable condition I placed on withdrawing from the election isn't fulfilled, on what basis would I withdraw? Jclemens (talk) 07:17, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

So nobody knew why you resigned? --Rschen7754 07:25, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

To correct myself, I've never volunteered to resign. I offered to withdraw from the election. And surely you've read enough other resignation statements to know what would have been said--focus on other interests, etc.--all of which would have been completely true if not the entire reason, and all of which would have served to save face for Elen as well, who would have been writing her own true-but-not-complete account of why she was withdrawing herself. Jclemens (talk) 07:32, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Would you be willing to post the contents of the allegedly offensive email? I know it must seem unfair for me to ask, but I worry that the sordid allegations and sleazy innuendo will do more harm to your reputation than a full disclosure. 71.236.188.255 (talk) 07:09, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid you're right. Jclemens (talk) 07:15, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

There is no intended follow-up question to this, I'm just curious from "reading between the lines" - Is this the "irony" you were referring to when discussing Risker's question on your questions page? - jc37 07:19, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes. I have found Risker's recent conduct towards me in email uncharacteristically and disappointingly hostile, so I found the question quite ironic. I expect Risker would not agree with my characterization, but the future committee members will be able to go back and review the arbcom-L traffic and make up their own minds if they're interested. Jclemens (talk) 07:24, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

The original email

(context--both preceding and following--is not provided, as I don't have permission to share it.)

Risker,

It's going to be an issue in the upcoming election, so I wanted to bring it up here first. I will be actively campaigning against those members of the committee seeking reelection who did not vote to ban Malleus. I know that doesn't include you, but I think I owe all those of you who will be affected the courtesy of being up front about it.

Again, I'm not a politician, so this is going to be an issue that I take a stand on because I believe it the single most appropriate discernment measure as far as who is fit to serve on the committee.

There won't be any surprises or sneakiness. I'm going to lay out the question pretty much like I did here, quoting Malleus and all, to each candidate and I would encourage everyone to have their best argument prepared. Consider me asking here first a courtesy dry run, since mailing list conversations have no place in on-wiki electioneering.

I don't want to serve on a committee half-full of people who obstruct appropriate discipline for even the most egregious, flagrant, and recidivist civility violators. I sincerely consider that the biggest failing of this committee at this point in time. So, either the committee tilts one way, or the other, but either way I expect it will probably not be another year like this one.

If I lose, I go out on principle, but will continue to serve the project even if I disagree with the direction. If I win, then I sincerely hope we can enforce some basic principles while prodding the community to shore up its expectations without letting a vocal pro-profanity minority obstruct ANY progress.

(my name)

Obviously, that hasn't happened to date, entirely because I've been giving the committee time to work on the mailing list leak for the past two weeks or so.

Comments on email

Your message seems ok to me, I guess the question is if you should have used the Arbcom mailing list to send it. I think you should have used personal email. Cla68 (talk) 07:18, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

... which is why I was kind of baffled by the negative reaction I got, and agreed to drop the line of discussion when asked (rather forcefully and not entirely civilly, I might add, but those emails are not mine to share). I thought the issue was dead until a week later when it turns out the email was leaked and multiple candidates were contacting the committee about it. Jclemens (talk) 07:20, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

To be honest, I've been thinking it over for about 30 minutes, and I think the only person who did something wrong here is Elen. I don't think your email to the mailing list was wrong, but I also don't think their reaction to it was wrong. It's understandable that they would be angry for you to say something like that to them. If you stand behind what you said, then be strong about it. Post the email then say, "I understand their anger, but I meant what I said in that email." Then, you guys can hash it out in the election. Cla68 (talk) 07:46, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

I do meant what I said, and I did intend it to be hashed out in the election... which is all where this would have been headed absent an email leak in which at least one of the redistributions included only the next-to-last paragraph in an apparent attempt to make me look as bad as possible. Jclemens (talk) 07:51, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

My ability to respond...

As is always so inconvenient, I find myself occupied for the next 48 hours with sleep, work, volunteer firefighting (which may or may not involve any sleep), more work, and a previous social engagement, so it will possibly be close to 48 hours before I am able to guarantee any responses. If it's a quiet night at the fire station, I will be able to respond in 18 hours or so. Jclemens (talk) 07:42, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Please resign

Jclemens, please resign from the ArbCom and your adminship, effectively immediate. 24.61.9.111 (talk) 07:49, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for saying please. If you're eligible, feel free to vote against me in the upcoming election. Jclemens (talk) 07:52, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

I would never be uncivil. Thank you for replying. I feel you have violated the trust placed in you and the only honourable thing left to do it resign and return to editing articles. 24.61.9.111 (talk) 07:53, 26 November 2012 (UTC)