Talk:Pelé/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Pele style

I don't know enough about soccer to do this, but could someone more knowledgeable please add something about Pele's style in soccer and whether and what kind of new techniques he brought to the game? I think that would make this article more complete.

I'm not sure how much can be added. He was more of an effective player than a flashy player (like Maradona, Best etc) so he didn't have his own style as such. As for moves, he is widely thought tohave invented the bicycle kick, but Pele himself admits the move came about a decade earlier. Sometimes people refer to a "Pele 7" which is where someone kicks the ball up with their left foot, right foot, right knee, left knee, left shoulder, right shoulder before heading it, but this isnt really a single move, and I believe Pele only did it once. TJM

As a brazilian, and Pelé fan, I never heard about that. I should add that Pelé brought to many things to the game. The "paradinha" (stop and go) at the penalty kick, the physical play ("jogo de corpo"), the velocity, the minimalist play, like when he fooled the uruguaian goalkeeper in 70 WC without touching the ball. ARDB

I think that he just changed the way that we saw football could be played. He inspired the world with his delicate touches and brilliant football mind. ALV

Bicycle Kick

The Bicycle Kick is often credit to Leonidas da Silva. He played the 1938 World Cup. --Abu Badali 05:17, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

Can someone rewrite "clinical finisher" in language understandable to Americans? I suspect it means "consistently successful goal-scorer", but I don't know. —JerryFriedman 21:19, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I don't think there is an equivalent word, it means someone who is extremely reliable at putting the ball in the back of the net when presented with the opportunity - a particular type of goal-scoring.

I would agree...I think "clinical finisher" should stay. I also think americans should put some effort into understanding terminology,there is no need to change correct terminology just so americans can understand it...put a bit of effort in...learn.

Yes, there's nothing unamerican about that terminology. I'm shocked that someone would find it difficult to understand! Danielwharris 22:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Best, and most interesting solution is to write an article on it: clinical finisherSeabhcán 09:40, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

What happened to this image?

This used to be a pic of Pelé:

It's a cropped version of this one. http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/08july20051459/www.gpo.gov/nara/pubpaps/photos/phok97v2.jpg It looks awkward now... --Zahn 21:47, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Pele: played creatively, fought ferociously to control and keep the ball, and was both humble and sharing. He believed he could make a difference to the point where even on the bench he made a difference. Think of Pele (Edson Arantes de Nacimento) as the Michael Jordan (Basket Ball player) of Football!! And think of Pele's impact on the Brazilian Team and Football as Michael Jordan of the Bull's prior to and after the death of his father that led to his first retirement. Simply: Grand, Magical!!Somedoby Stop Me, please,. Kamissa!

I'm no expert on football, but what is up with this Pele pic that's being used at the top of the page? Isn't there a better one of him from his playing days somewhere? It's kind of wierd to have a pic of him half out of the frame as the main pic.--67.71.29.148 01:35, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Critics

I see a couple of problems in this article:

• Ever loyal to his local club, he stayed with Santos for his entire career

What does this mean? He then played for another club in USA!

Pele's played in USA not for money, but as an exbihition to promote US soccer. Prior to that he had retired before. It's not wrong to say he was loyal to Santos. Mandel 14:03, Dec 23, 2004 (UTC)

But it is wrong to say that he played with Santos for his entire career. Peoplesunionpro 23:20, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

• considered to be one of the greatest players of all time

Should have some reference, such as FIFA's Player of the Century or something.

• The 1970 team, ... is considered one of the greatest selections ever

This should be in Brazil's national team, not here.

I think this should be here alright, since it is a statement done by hundreds of the worlds best players and coaches, representing a world view.

I think being a part of the greatest team of all time is important enough to be in Peles article

• in front of a capacity crowd

Say what?

What he meant was someting like "a fully packed stadium", meaning the crowd filled the stadium at its capacity.LtDoc 04:03, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

It lacks info about his current activities for FIFA.

All in all, the article is an extract of a FIFA article who's link is among the external links. Could do some more research, right?

Footballer of the Century

Is it relevant to add the details about the issue over that award, in this article? I see how the actual award fits here, but not the details behind it. Perhaps those details would be relevant if they were placed in a Footballer of the Century article. Peoplesunionpro 21:06, July 9, 2005 (UTC)

Overated

Too Overated

People know that when Pele played he wasnt the best player in the world. He was hadpicked as the worlds best player to represent the good in football...poor boy made good..thats all. Even he would admit that half a dozen other Brazilain and European players were better then him at the time. His performaces at world cup level were fantastic but at club level he did little. He didnt test himself in Europe so we will never know. Over time this gets lost....These same people will one day label Zidane, Beckham, Figo and Roanldo as world class but we all know they did nothing at Real all together. Look at Ronaldinho at Barca showing world class and thats just one guy... SHUT UP YOU IDIOT!!!!! MAYBE THE ONLY TWO PLAYERS WHO CAME CLOSE TO HIM WHEN HE PLAYED WERE DI STEFANO AND GARRINCHA, MAYBE. WHO ARE THESE OTHER PLAYERS HE WOULD ADMIT TO BEING WORSE THAN??? YOUR ARGUMENT IS FLAWED FOR SO MANY REASONS. THAT INSANITY YOU TALK ABOUT RONALDINHO DOING IT ON HIS OWN IS LUDICROUS. DO THESE NAMES RING A BELL ETO'O, DECO, MESSI, PUYOL, INIESTA, GIULY ETC... AND HOW YOU CAN POSSIBLY TRY AND SAY HE IS BETTER THAN ZIDANE IS BEYOND ME. ZIDANE HAS WON EVERYTHING AND BEEN THE BEST PLAYER IN EACH TEAM HES PLAYED IN INCLUDING GREAT TEAMS SUCH AS THE JUVENTUS OF THE LATE NINETIES, THE REAL MADRID SIDE OF 2001-2003 AND THE FRANCE SIDE THAT WAS BY FAR AND AWAY THE BEST NATIONAL SIDE FROM 98-2001. RONALDINHO HAS EXCELLED AT ONE CLUB AND BEEN QUITE GOOD FOR BRAZIL. THERE IS IN REALITY NO COMPARISON. BACK TO PELE AND WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT HIM NOT TESTING HIMSELF IN EUROPE: IF YOU BEAT ALL THE EUROPEAN NATIONAL SIDES SURELY THAT MEANS YOUVE PROVED YOURSELF OR IS THAT LOGIC A LITTLE TOO STRAIGHTFORWARD FOR YOU.

What is the point of this? Im not even saying I disagree completely with you, but he *is* widely viewed as the sports most famous and favorite player. He would admit there is better players than him because he has a value known as 'class'. Furthermore, your jab at Zinedine Zidane not being world class further mutes your point because once again, a huge majority of the world will disagree with you. Karl Friedrich 18:54, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

---

Pele for mine is overated...but with good reason...his face makes football great...poor boy made good...rags to riches ...we all love the story...but we shouldnt forget his teammates who some say made him look good. pele has done alot for football but football has done alot for him too sure he will go down as one of the greats ...but not the greatest...maradona is ahead and a few others

---

I do not believe pele is overated at all. How can you say he did little at club level when he scored over a thousand goals and won everything it was possible to win. People say he can't be seen as the best player ever because he never tested himself in europe but this is such rubbish. First of all the standard of south americas leagues were not the way they are now. In fact at the time i believe the columbian league was the richest in the world. also he played european teams like benafica and inter in the intercontinental cup and he completly out classed them. Pele could dribble, he had pace and power, he could score with his left or right foot as well as his head and on top of all this he was a model profesional. somebody before me appears to be saying that zidane, beckham, figo and zidane are not world class player which i think is a crazy statement. just because they havn't won anything together doesn't mean they arn't world class. we all know that real's problems stem from a lack of defenders and defensive centre mids as well as the poor running of the club not from a lack of gifted footballers. I do not disagree with the point that ronaldinho is world class but i think it is very harsh on barcelona as a club to say hes there only great player. i admit that hes the best but he is helped by players such as eto'o, messi, xavi, deco and puyol its not like its a bad team.

I'm not particularly bothered whether people think Pele's the greatest or not - it's a purely subjective question, and impossible to settle. However, I'd like to point out the gigantic flaw in the argument that "He didn't test himself in Europe so we will never know". The annual match between the winners of the old European Cup and the Copa Libertadores produced more South American victories than European from 1960 to 1999, including Santos beating Benfica and Inter Milan in successive years ('62-'63). lonympics.co.uk/scotlandworldclubchampions.htm

Clearly the idea that South American football was inferior 40 years ago is unsubstantiated. Pele played in a league that could quite legitimately claim to be the strongest in the world. -- DeLarge 22:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

---

Pelé was a complete footballer, for all the reasons stated above. He not only excelled, but perfected many of the skills seen as fundamental in today's top players - a striker who was able to play as a midfielder, but capable of giving excellent passes and scoring goals with his head with almost as much ease as he scored with his feet, not to mention the fact that he marked, man-on-man , Pelé was an extremely well-rounded player at a time when players were thought of as members of one position, or another. In fact, the 1970 world cup is seen by many as the turning point in this trend. In 1974, you have Holland's amazing total football tactics making full use of this idea.

Speak to any soccer fan who has watched some of the greatest matches and players of all time, and analyzed them to great extent. Ask them who the best shooter was. The tactical genius. The best free-kicker. The best passer. Best dribbler. Best crosser. Best head scorer. Fastest player. Ask any of these questions, and the answer to none of them will be 'Pelé'. Many players exceeded Pelé's abilities in these fields, but none reached his level of excellence in all of them, at the same time.

Furthermore, to claim that soccer at that time wasn't as good as it is now, or that he played in a weak league for most of his carreer is absurd. If you compare his statistics to those of other contemporary players, and add to that the fact that all of the 1970 world cup Brazilian players played for national, in-house teams, the only logical conclusion is that the best players in the world were part of the Brazilian national league. If not that, then you must at least admit that the Brazilian league was still one of the top three, the other two probably being the Italian and Dutch leagues, at that time.

I admire the football of Maradona, of Ferenc Puskas and of Ronaldinho, Romário, Paolo Rossi, Baggio, Beckenbaur, Fritz Muller, Uwe Seeler, Michael Platini, Eusébio, Batistuta and many others. I have cheered most, if not all of these players on, considering myself a fairly neutral person insofar as picking sides in soccer goes. Take it from someone who watched it, if only to legitimize the already heavily-documented views you find on this page -- Pelé was, simply, the best. If you doubt my purportedly subjective assessment, have a look at the statistics. Even by the thinnest, most conservative standards, what you have here, is still a step above even when compared to the names I mentioned at the top of this paragraph. Those were all kings in their own right, but Pelé was the king of them all.

How to Type the letter é in Pelé ?

If you want to use "é" instead of "e" in a Pelé, then use these keyboard stroke / keys :
Press "P", "e", "l". Then press ...
Alt + 0233 (it means, first press the "Alt" (Alternative/Alternate) key in your keyboard, and keep it pressing with your left hand, then press the digits 0 2 3 3 one by one, in the right-side numeric keypad).
Then you will get Pelé. To make it a linkable name (to goto his article,) use two third brackets at the beginning and end of the name, like this '''Pelé''', then you will get linkable Pelé.
If you want to link to his (English) article through URL, then use below code ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%E9
or, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9

Make sure num lock is on. Philc _T^E_C^I 22:49, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

For this type of other characters, see Windows Alt keycodes. ~ Tarikash.

Thanks for assuming i'm using Windows.

If on a Mac (or at least on mine), just press and hold alt, then press 'e', then release alt and press 'e' again. Ben davison 15:02, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Pelé

pele was a great footballer. ~ 83.71.61.53 (00:56, May 19, 2006).

references

Add more references and help inline cite them. Skinnyweed 00:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

More have been added - this cite notice is starting to look a bit disproportionate. Gerry Lynch 14:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation

The pronunciation of his name currently given -- pɛ'læ -- does not look right to me, but I am not a speaker of Brazilian Portuguese. Could someone who is please check? --Macrakis 19:25, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not a native speaker of PT, but I'm regrettably even less fluent in IPA. The first e is closed, roughly like an e in Spanish or Italian. The second e carries the accent and is very open, eh, almost like the English e in egg. At some point I should learn enough IPA to verify it, but I can see that it would be very counterintuitive for someone coming from EN or ES. Cheers - PhilipR 06:25, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Meaning of Pelé?

Do we have a source for the statement that 'Pelé' has some connection to a word of courtyard? This BBC article states "The word had no meaning in Portuguese so he presumed it was an insult, but recently he has found out that it means miracle in Hebrew." [1]

I didn't understand your point. But the word Pelé come from 'Bilé'. It was the name of a goalkepper from the team where Pelé's father used to play. Pelé used to cheer the name of Bilé. So he became known as 'Bilé', but his friends couldn't say 'Bilé', so they adopted to a easier word, which is Pelé. BelegurthFile:Crystal 128 bell.png^Hã? 00:45, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Do you have a source for that? (Over the past couple of weeks, I have asked every Brazilian I know. Every one give a different answer) Seabhcán 20:55, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

i read this as the origin of his name recently also, suprised it wasnt mentioned on wikipedia.

physical stats

The article says:

Famed for his pace and strong shot, and exceptional heading ability for a relatively short man

Can someone provide his playing height? i.e. how tall was he during his playing years? Funkyj 17:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Here's a source that lists his height at 172 cm: [2]. See also [3] (this ref doesn't meet WP:V). --Muchness 18:05, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

To stop this nonsense here is the official stats from Santos Futebol Clube where Pelé played: he is 1,725m tall: [4] Loudenvier 20:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Nearly two kilometres tall? Stop talking nonsense.

Now now no need to be rude. in Portuguese , and . are the opposite of what they are in English. 1,725m is 1.725m in English.

George Best

Was so much better.

Pelé and piracy

Has anyone seen the new Pelé commercial in which he chastises piracy? The commercial is dubbed since Pelé can only speak Portugese. Well, it turns out he was actually saying, "download my soccer films, GO BRAZILIA!" --Hoopaholic400 17:41, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Position

Pele's Position

Pele was not a striker. He was an attacking midfielder. The number 10 of his teams. The same position of Zico. It's called Ponta de Lança in portuguese.

The striker of Santos was Coutinho, not Pele. And Vava was the striker of Brasil in 58 and 62. Tostão was the striker in 1970 (he was improvised, cause he was not a striker either). Pele was never the striker of his teams.

i agree, pele played in what is now called the hole, back then was inside forward. plenty of sources to verify this, just watch a game with him in it.

GA nomination

This nomination is on hold for 7 days for these reasons: writing is POV in favor of Pele and uses weasel words--it's too laudatory and needs a more encyclopedic tone, and the sports awards part of the references section needs fixed. Rlevse 18:13, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Failed due to partial compliance with suggestions. Rlevse 23:16, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Untitled

Correct this sentence please

"due to a injury suffered in the 2nd match he did not played the whole Cup not receiving a winner's medal"

(Introduction, 4th paragraph.)

This sentence is clearly incorrect and demonstrates a very poor use of english. In particular, "he did not played" and "a injury".

I recommend changing the sentence to the following; "due to an injury suffered in the 2nd match, Pele did not play enough games during the Cup to qualify for a winner's medal."

Thank you.

 Done. Please remember to post all new entries in Talk pages at the bottom and to always sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~). -- Alexf⁴² 00:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

The Table

Note: in reworking the table from the version presented in the article, I've removed the Totals: these were for "major" domestic club compeitions, plus the Copa Libertadores. They can still be seen in the table in the article if they are needed.

Second note: According the the official Santos website [5], Pele scored 1 in 1116. I guess this is the number we are aiming for in the bottom right hand corner of the table. --Jim (Talk) 12:49, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

OK. According to the big list, Pele got 1088 in 1115 for Santos. This means it is missing one game in which Pele scored 3 goals. Assuming, for the moment, that Santos have counted one to many matches, then this game could be:

• 19 June 1957, Combined Santos/Vasco - Belenenses (Portugal)
• 24 Jan 1960, Sao Paulo - Bahia
• Any one of four games August-October 1959, for military teams. However, I am assuming that Santos would either count all of these games, or none of them; so it has to be one of the first two games.

I don't have time right now to check what competitions the first two matches are from, and it might be the case that the big list (or Santos) have made other mistakes, but it's worth having this here just in case something doesn't add up on the table further along the line. --Jim (Talk) 13:16, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Another thought on this matter: it could be that the missing game for Santos on the big list is Pele's testimonial, where he played one half for Cosmos and one half for Santos. The final score was 2-1 to Cosmos. Pele scored one goal. So it doesn't sort out the missing hat-trick.

A few points:

1. I think that we should remove all the stars (*)
2. I think we should go with the big list as it is more verifiable than either the Santos number or 1,281.
3. I would like to see this version of the table completed and added to the article a.s.a.p.

aLii 21:26, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Club	Season	Domestic League Competitions								Domestic League Sub-total			Domestic Cup		International Club Competitions				Other Club Matches			GRAND TOTAL
		SPS		RSPS		T. de Prata		Camp. Brasil.					T. Brasil		Copa Libertadores		Intercontinental Cup
		Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals		Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals		Apps	Goals
Santos	1956	0*	0*							0*	0*								2*	2*		2*	2*
	1957	14+15*	19+17*	9	5					38*	41*								29*	16*		67*	57*
	1958	38	58	8	8					46	66								14*	14*		60*	80*
	1959	32	45	7	6					39	51		4*	2*					40*	47*		83*	100*
	1960	30	33	3	0					33	33		0	0	0	0	0	0	34*	26*		67*	59*
	1961	26	47	7	8					33	55		5*	7	0	0	0	0	36*	48*		74*	110*
	1962	26	37	0	0					26	37		5*	2*	4*	4*	2	6	13*	14*		50*	63*
	1963	19	22	8	14					27	36		4*	8	4*	5*	1	2	16	16*		52*	67*
	1964	21	34	4	3					25	37		6*	7	0*	0*	0	0	16*	13*		47*	57*
	1965	30	49	7	5					37	54		4*	2*	7*	8	0	0	18*	33*		66*	97*
	1966	14	13	0*	0*					14*	13*		5*	2*	0	0	0	0	19*	16*		38*	31*
	1967	18	17			14*	9*			32*	26*		0	0	0	0	0	0	???	???		65*	56*
	1968	21	17			17*	11*			38*	28*		0	0	0	0	0	0	???	???		73*	55*
	1969	25	26			12*	12*			37*	38*				0	0	0	0	???	???		61*	57*
	1970	15	7			13*	4*			28*	11*				0	0	0	0	???	???		54*	47*
	1971	19	8					21	1	40	9				0	0	0	0	???	???		72*	29*
	1972	20	9					16	5	36	14				0	0	0	0	???	???		74*	50*
	1973	19	11					30	19	49	30				0	0	0	0	???	???		66*	52*
	1974	10	1					17	9	27	10				0	0	0	0	???	???		49*	19*
	All	412	470	53	49	56*	36*	84	34	605*	589*		33	30	15	17	3	8	???	???		1120	1088

Club	Season	NASL		Other		Total
		Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals	Apps	Goals
NY Cosmos	1975	9	5	14*	10*	23*	15*
	1976	24	15	18*	11*	42*	26*
	1977	31	17	11*	6*	42*	23*
	All	64	37	43*	27*	107*	64*

• A dark grey cell means that the relevant competition did not run in the relevant year

• A "*" indicates this number was inferred from a Santos fixture list from rsssf.com and this list of games Pelé played.

Comments and calculations

• Santos only played in the Copa Libertadores in 1962, 1963, 1964 and 1965 of the years Pele was there [6]. (The same page believes that Pele's 17 goals in the competition came in 14 games)
• 1964 Santos only scored 3 goals in the CL, and in 1965 Pele top scored with 8 in the competition [7] [8].
• Some Taca Brazil stats rsssf.com. Pele got 7 goals in 1961, 8 in 1963, and 7 in 1964. Also Santos didn't take part in 1960 [9], 1967 [10] or 1968 [11].
• There is a chance that your [Campeonato Paulista|SPS] stats may be incorrect, see [12]. Of course the rsssf page could well be wrong.
  • That link disagrees with the stat above for 1957. It gives Pele 17 goals rather than the 36 we give him. It confirms the stats above for 58-65 inclusive, as well as 69 and 73. It doesn't seem to implicitly disagree (i.e., by giving the top scorer record to a player who scored fewer goals than the table above says Pele scored) at all. I will look into this: although it may mean going right back to the list of goals on my User Page.Jim (Talk) 18:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Infact almost every website that I've visited lists him as 1957 top scorer with 17 goals, e.g. [13]. However, the same pages generally seem to think he scored 97 goals for Brazil rather than the obviously correct 77. Weird. Also note that the big list of games and goals lists 751 "National" games for Santos and 717 goals. The above table only lists 633 games (CL is international). What I mean to point out by this is that you can't count those games and assume that they correspond to well established tournament appearances. It seems that Santos played all kinds of random little friendly tournaments. aLii 22:08, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Both numbers are correct in a way. In 1957 the SP championship was split into two halves [14], Série Azul and Série Branca. In the first half Pele scored 19 in 14, and then in Série Azul he got 17 in 15. aLii 12:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• rsssf.com doesn't have any details for the Torneio Rio-São Paulo in 1956. I guess it wasn't run for some reason. Santos didn't take part in 1962 [15]
  • This guy [16] claims that "Não houve torneio de 1934 a 1939, de 1941 a 1949, em 1956, de 1967 a 1992 e de 1994 a 1996". I can't read Portuguese, but from cross-referencing the dates it seems that he is saying that the RSPS wasn't run in 1956. Jim (Talk) 18:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

aLii 18:25, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

• OK, I've checked out 1956, and according to the "master list" at User:James Kemp/Pelé/0001 to 0142 56 to 58, Pele played two games. Also, based on our other research, Santos were only playing in the SPS. Neither of these games occured in the SPS according to rsssf.com. Furthermore, soccer-europe claims Pele did not play for or score for Santos in 1956. So I've set his appearances and goals for that year to a tentative zero. Looks like we'll have to update the dates he was at Santos on the main page, too. Jim (Talk) 18:49, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

• Oh, and as a little aside it likes like the oft-cited claim that Pele scored 4 goals on his debut might be bollocks as well!! Jim (Talk) 18:49, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

• RSPS for 1966: According to rsssf.com, "(Due to the World Cup, the extra matches were not realized and all the four teams were considered champions.)" [17]. Maybe this is why Pele's goals scored in the competition - if, indeed, he did score - are not counted at Soccer Europe? Or maybe he was not played because of the impending World Cup? Either way, it mine mean resorting to the master list, and I ain't put it up on my User Page for that year, yet. Jim (Talk) 18:56, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Santos did indeed take part, but Pele himself would seem to have played no part. Infact he played no games between 17 Feb and 29 Mar — all of Santos' games in the tournament were in this period. One would assume he was injured. aLii 02:18, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

• 1962 Taca Brasil. The first thing to note is that it looks like the TB for 1962 actually ran through into 1963; this seems to be the case for at least one other year. For the sake of simplicity (and because they are probably right) I think we should adopt the RSSSF convention; i.e., the 62-63 TB is listed as 1962. According to rsssf [18] Santos did not play until the semis, possibly because they were the cup holders - this is not stated explicitly, but this is how the TdP works in other years. According to rsssf, Santos played five games in that years TB; according to the master list, Pele played in all of them, and scored 2 goals. The only oddity is that rsssf list the two games against Recife as being played in December 62, whereas the list lists them as being played in January 63; either way, the results are the same and Pele played but did not score. Jim (Talk) 08:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• Similar work for the 59 TB gives 2 goals in 4 games. Again, a little tentative. Jim (Talk) 08:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• TB 65, same process. Santos play four games according to rsssf; again I assume they qualify automatically for the semis as they won the cup the year before. Pele scores 2 in 4. All games take place in the calendar year 1965. Jim (Talk) 10:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• TB 66, same process. Pele gest 2 in 5. We have a problem now as our breakdown is greater than the total given by soccer-europe. Maybe someone could go through the goal totals given by rsssf.com (where they have Pele as top scorer in a particular year) to see if they correlate with the master list and the rsssf.com results list? Jim (Talk) 10:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Done for 61. Goals correct. 5 apps. Jim (Talk) 10:38, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Double checked 62 Jim (Talk) 10:46, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Done for 63. 8 in 4. Jim (Talk) 10:46, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Done for 64. 7 in 6. I think Soccer Europe made a mistake, and that our stats are correct (since most of them have been checked directly with the results, and the balance are from rsssf which is pretty much the authority. I've amended the TB totals to read 30 in 33. Jim (Talk) 10:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Now that's settled...

Here's a provisional to-do list for the goalscoring stats:

• Find out, from rsssf, precisely what other tournaments Pele played in. The list can go here:
  • Taça dos Campeões Estaduais [19] - 56, 0(0); 57 1(0)
  • 1968 Campeonato Nacional [20]
  • Tournament 3
  • etc...
• Work out, preferably with the help of the wider WP community, precisely which tournaments should be counted towards league goals. Almost certainly none of the little ones listed above should be. I like the current definitions; I am just thinking that maybe the Taca Brasil should be included since, although it isn't a league tournament, it was a qualifying competition for the Copa Lib and was therefore more prestigious that your average cup.
• Add Intercontinental Cup Data
• Rework the table - it's taking up the width of the screen at the moment, and if we need another column for "other competititve competitions" then it will just be too big. How about one table for all "league" goals (as per the infobox definition) and another table for everything else? —Preceding unsigned comment added by James Kemp (talk • contribs) 09:50, 10 August 2006

---

While you were writing, I was writing this: There are many problems when trying to give the "facts" about Pele's goal scoring record.

1. How many goals did he actually score? FIFA says 1281 in 1363 games. However the big list says 1280 in 1363 games, or 1282 in 1366 games, dependant on whether you count the three friendly appearances he made after his retirement?

Hmmm. Good point. Santos are going with 1281 goals as well. Is there any way of working out what FIFA's source is? Could we write to them and ask? Santos seem to cite the same statistic [21]. I reckon we assume FIFA and Santos have got it right, and that there's some kind of error on the big list. This doesn't matter too much for the moment, as it will only put our total one goal out, and we can also carry FIFA's total. But it should be sorted out at some point. Jim (Talk) 12:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

1. When did he score his 1000th goal? Most media sources have recently put it after 909 games, in a match against Vasco. The big list says that was his 1001th goal, with the 1000th coming in his 907th game.

Interesting: assuming that these media sources are using the FIFA statistics, one would assume that - if there was a discrepancy with the big list, as there is here - they would say that the 1000th goal was earlier than the big list, not later. The big list is taken from a book called Pelé: O Supercampeão by Orlando Duarte. According to WorldCat this is only available in some libraries in the US: depending on where you are based, do you think you could put in an interlibrary loan? I will try here (Edinburgh), too. Interestingly enough, there was a book published called "Pele: the autobiography" by the same guy (Duarte). Maybe that contains a list of statistics. The British Library have it, if you are near London; I will try and get the National Library of Scotland to sort out a copy.Jim (Talk) 12:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

1000 gol marcado em 19 de novembro de 1969, às 23h11, em sua 909º partida, Vasco 1 - Santos 2, com 65.157 pagantes. He scored his 1000th goal 19 Novembre, 1969, by 23:11 o'clock, in his 909th match. It was Vasco 1 x 2 Santos, with 65.157 people attending and broadcasted to the entire nation (Brazil). The goal was by Penalty. There's the possibility that 1 goal was skipped and that this was actually the 1001th goal. I'll have to research this fact though. Regards Loudenvier 14:34, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Just to clarify the situation, the big list claims that this goal was Pele's 1001st. It agrees with the details of the match though, and that this was Pele's 909th match. Loudenvier: could you post the source from which you are taking the above Portuguese? And Ali, what other media sources claim this goal as the 1000th? When do these sources say Pele's first game was? It's just that if they are not counting the first game the big list gives, in which Pele scored 1 goal, then everything is just about sorted without too much hassles: although this is somewhat of a cut and shut method. Jim (Talk) 15:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I have an overhelming amount of sources because I'm brazilian. The difficult lies in filtering the sources. I have even the escalation of Vasco and Santos. The Goal was scored agains the goalkeeper from Argentina Andrada, which is something ironic due to the rivalry between Brazil and Argentina. The source for my statement before was the portuguese wikipedia (pt.wikipedia.org). I'll come with somethin interesting soon. Loudenvier 17:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

1. What competitions were national league competitions? I think there is a good arguement for saying the four currently mentioned, but equally for saying just the Sao Paolo league.

Personally I think this should be decided by the WP community. This may have already been done implicitly: if you check out the infobox for Rivelino, who played in Brazil between 65 and 78, he is given 500 odd appearances and 194 goals; could we work out the basis on which this is calculated? What other Brazilian players of that era have infoboxes with their appearance and goal record in it? Maybe we should defer to rsssf.com on this.

I got in touch with the guy that did the stats for the Rivelino article and he says the following:

Hi Jim! I got the Rivelino information from the Corinthians Almanac(an actual book). His club did not play international games at the time, so my mission was easier. I got the information for Fluminense from hthe club website; and the international games from the RSSF Brasil. There was not a proper Brazilian league until 71, so it is generally accepted that the "Rio Sao Paulo" and "Copa Brasil" are considered as domestic leagues. Besides that, the regional championship (Paulista for Corinthians, Carioca for Fluminense) are played officialy in the beginning of the year). I do not see any problem in using the same criteria for Pelé.

I will check out the Fluminese website and see if I can get some more information. Jim (Talk) 08:05, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

1. Exactly what were all these hundreds of other games Pele played? How can they be classified? Are there many sources for this? Jim (Talk) 17:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Some will be in those small tournaments you found. Others are for Army teams. But I think the vast majority will be in exhibition games for Santos and Cosmos. The ones for Santos are listed somewhere on rsssf.com. I think they also list the ones for Cosmos: at the bottom of each season's info page. Jim (Talk) 17:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The Portugeuse Wikipedia article has loads of good statistics on this. Do you reckon you could translate, Loudevinir?:

I'm a litle short of time right now... I'll translate it as soon as possible... Loudenvier 21:05, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

• Seleção do 6º Grupo de Artilharia de Costa Motorizado (6º GACosM)(1959), 11 gols
• Seleção Paulista (1959-60 e 1968/69), 11 gols
• Seleção das Forças Armadas (1959), 4 gols
• Seleção dos Sind. dos Atletas-SP (1961/62), 3 gols
• Seleção do Sudeste (1983), 1 gol
• Seleção dos Amigos do Garrincha, 1 gol
• Seleção Norte Americana de Astros (1975)
• Seleção dos ex-atletas do New York Cosmos (1984)
• Seleção Brasileira de Seniores (1987)

In total they're listing the following competitions he played in:

Campeonato Paulista

1957 - Santos (17 gols)

1958 - Santos (58 gols)

1959 - Santos (45 gols)

1960 - Santos (33 gols)

1961 - Santos (47 gols)

1962 - Santos (37 gols)

1963 - Santos (22 gols)

1964 - Santos (34 gols)

1965 - Santos (49 gols)

1969 - Santos (26 gols)

1973 - Santos (11 gols)

Copa América

1959 - Brasil (8 gols)

Campeonato Brasileiro das Forças Armadas

1959 - Seleção da 6ª Grupo de Artilharia de Costa Motorizado (6º GACosM)(11 gols)

Campeonato Sul Americano das Forças Armadas

1959 - Seleção Brasileira das Forças Armadas (11 gols)

Taça Brasil

1961 - Santos (9 gols)

1963 - Santos (12 gols)

Torneio Rio-São Paulo

1961 - Santos (7 gols)

1963 - Santos (15 gols)

1964 - Santos (3 gols)

1965 - Santos (7 gols)

Mundial Interclubes

1962 - Santos (3 gols)

Taça Libertadores da América

1963 - Santos (11 gols)

Jim (Talk) 17:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I think also that it would be useful, and put to rest most of this squabble if Pele's complete seasonal tally of games/goals would be added to the end of the table. From the big list I total it as (I would like this double checking):

Definitely. But I think we need to be careful how we present the statistics box, so that we include sub-totals for "league" games, other competitive games, non competitive games, etc. Jim (Talk) 17:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

• 1956: 2 (2) - double-checked. 2(2) for Santos Jim (Talk)
• 1957: 73 (65) - double-checked. 4(6) for "Combined Santos/Vasco"; 2(2) For Brazil; 67 (57) for Santos Jim (Talk)
• 1958: 67 (90) - double-checked. 7(10) for Brazil; 60(80) for Santos Jim (Talk)
• 1959: 103 (126) - double-checked. 3(3) for "Army National Team"; 1(0) for "Army A"; 6(11) for "Sixth Coast Guard"; 2(1) for Sao Paulo; 8(11) for Brazil; 83(100) for Santos Jim (Talk)
• 1960: 82 (73) - double-checked. 6(6) for Sao Paulo; 9(8) for Brazil; 67(59) For Santos. Jim (Talk)
• 1961: 75 (111) - double-checked. 1(1) For "Syndicate of Athletes of Sao Paulo"; 74(110) for Santos Jim (Talk)
• 1962: 59 (73) - double-checked. 8(8) for Brazil; 1(2) for "Syndicate of Athletes of Sao Paulo"; 50(63) for Santos Jim (Talk)
• 1963: 59 (74) - double-checked. 7(7) for Brazil; 52(67) for Santos Jim (Talk)
• 1964: 50 (58) - double-checked. 3(1) for Brazil; 47(57) for Santos Jim (Talk)
• 1965: 74 (106) - double-checked. 8(9) for Brazil; 66(97) for Santos Jim (Talk)
• 1966: 50 (43) - double-checked. 12(12) for Brazil; 38(31) for Santos Jim (Talk)
• 1967: 65 (56) - double-checked. 65(56) for Santos. Jim (Talk)
• 1968: 80 (60) 82(60) - could someone triple check? Jim (Talk)
  • Yeah, looks like my mistake. 842-761=81 (+1) = 82 aLii 02:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
    • 1(1) For Sao Paulo; 8(4) for Brazil; 73(55) for Santos.
• 1969: 78 (68) - double-checked. 14(10) for Brazil; 3(1) for Sao Paolo; 61(57) for Santos Jim (Talk)
• 1970: 75 (59) - double-checked. 21(12) for Brazil; 54(47) for Santos. Jim (Talk)
• 1971: 74 (30) - double-checked. 2(1) for Brazil; 72(29) for Santos. Jim (Talk)
• 1972: 74 (50) - double-checked. 74(50) for Santos. Jim (Talk)
• 1973: 67 (53) - double-checked. 1(1) for "Brazilian Selection"; 66(52) for Santos. Jim (Talk)
• 1974: 45 (19) - double-checked. 45(19) for Santos Jim (Talk)

Cosmos years:

• 1975: 23 (15) - double-checked. 23(15 for Cosmos Jim (Talk)
• 1976: 44 (26) - double-checked. 2(0) for "American All-Stars", 1(0) For Brasil (although this may not be a full international, as it was against Flamengo), 41(26) for Cosmos Jim (Talk)
• 1977: 42 (23) - double-checked. 42(23) for Cosmos Jim (Talk)

aLii 11:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

All double-checked. However, I think it would be better if we separated out Pele's appearances for Santos/Cosmos from other appearances (e.g., for military teams, Brazil, etc.). I've done a few years and added info to table above. --Jim (Talk) 12:29, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Table style change

Inspired by the stats table at Hank Aaron (He's a baseball player, and in baseball they're kind of into their stats) I've changed the table above to allow us to enter every single goal Pele scored in Santos colours, and also to give a subtotal to make it clear which goals we're counting as "Domestic League". What do you think? We would still need somewhere to put apps/goals for army teams, and other teams Pele played for, but I think this is a good way of dealing with the Santos statistics. Jim (Talk) 10:11, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Pelé Eterno redirect

I'm curious, why does Pelé Eterno redirect to Pelé? - ChaChaFut 03:29, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Pelé Eterno is a Portuguese documentary about Pelé. I'm not sure why the redirect was initially setup: perhaps because someone thought the documentary didn't deserve its own page, and because there is a little information about it on the Pelé article. Even the Portuguese Wikipedia doesn't have that much information on the documentary [22], but perhaps someone could create a stub on the English Wikipedia? I'm not sure if it was released in English-speaking countries, but the imdb do give it an English title [23] so I guess we can assume it was. --Jim (Talk) 10:27, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Confusing sentences

The two sentences below are very confusing to me:
The table below attempts to record every goal Pelé scored in competitive club competition for Santos and New York Cosmos. At this moment it is known of various games that are not included (for instance Pelé's 7 goals in the Intercontinental Cup), but all major annual competitions are included.
Can someone rewrite this so that it makes sense (and has correct grammar)? What exactly is included in the table and what isn't? You can't say that it is "every goal" but "various games are not included". That sounds contradictory. If it is just a list of "all major annual competitions", it should simply say that. Kaldari 01:09, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

This has been fixed. Kaldari 06:18, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Goalscoring table again...

Glad to see Pele got the WPF AID. It's just a bummer that my dissertation is due on Friday, or I would do more serious work. Maybe I'll have my own AID for Pele next week.

One thing I would like to see by the end of the week is the expanded goals table being included in the article. With this in mind, what do you all reckon about merging the last two columns, so that all of Pele's goals in friendlies and small competitions are in one column? This could be headed "Other Club Goals" and a note be put in to explain precisely what this meant. I really don't want to go through the entire goal list and pin each goal to a competition or friendly, but at least this way of working would give someone else the option to do this in the future. --Jim (Talk) 23:09, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

1,281 or 1,282? goals

Twice this article states that Pele is credited with scoring 1,281 goals, and twice the article states that he scored a total of 1,282 goals. The article should either cite one statistic consistantly or explain the descrepancy within the article text. That is, if we believe the 1,282 stat is correct and the 1,281 stat is incorrect, we need to explain why in the article. Otherwise it is an unexplained contradiction. Kaldari 06:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

The lower number is the more often quoted. The higher number comes from the big excel file, which claims that it counts a few friendly games from the end of his career that aren't usually counted. However if one removes these (3, I think) games, then Pele's goals go down to 1,280 (he scored 2 in one game), so the numbers still aren't consistent. I guess 1,281 is the number we should probably go with. aLii 08:43, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

If we are going to resolve this I think we'll need get hold of some more official statistics. Does the IFFHS supply this for free? Otherwise, there is the Duarte book which lists every one of Pele's goals. It would be good to get this resolved. --Jim (Talk) 16:45, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it would especially be good to get this resolved before Wikipedia Version 0.5 is finalized. The review period for 0.5 is scheduled to end on September 30th. After that, some version of this article will be written into stone (or more likely a DVD). It would be unfortunate to have this ambiguity remaining in the version selected for 0.5. Alternatively, why is not possible to just explain the discrepancy within the text of the article? Right now the reader is still left with the question of "Why does Wikipedia claim that Pele scored 1,282 goals if most sources say he scored 1,281?". Putting "See also the talk page" in the article (as it does now) is absolutely not acceptable (since Wikipedia self-references are not allowed). We should either remove the discrepency or add a paragraph to the article text (not in the notes) which says which sources claim 1,281 and which sources claim 1,282 and let the reader decide for themselves. Kaldari 20:55, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I have resolved the goalscoring discrepancy for now. See this edit for my changes. Kaldari 01:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Problem with this paragraph in Pelé article

I have a problem with the following statement made in the Pelé article:

"Although the Brazilian domestic league system provided every single starter from the 1958, 1962, and 1970 Brazil World Cup Champions,[32] perhaps leading one to the assumption that it was the world's strongest league during the years of Pelé's career, one also has to take into account the state nature of the league. At the time Santos mainly played against other teams from the São Paulo region, whereas the best players were spread around teams all across Brazil"

If you're going to make that claim you should at least elaborate on that. For example, mention the fact that in 1958 and 1962 all players on the brazilian national team played in either São Paulo or Rio De Janeiro and in 1970 only 5 players played outside of those two states. Besides the São Paulo state championship there was also the Torneio Rio-São Paulo which Santos and Pelé participated in every year. So, in essence, Pelé did,in fact,play against the best players in Brasil year in and year out. You don't make it seem that way in the aforementioned paragraph.

--R9magia 00:09, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Reword it then, but be warned; the previous incarnation of this paragraph had some rubbish about Pele's feats being even more incredible due to the fact that all the best players in the world played in Brazil at the time. The fact is that the Brazilian domestic football scene was incredibly diluted compared to the top leagues of any European nation.

Note that Pele never played more than 8 games in a season in the Torneio Rio-São Paulo, and only twice did he average more than a goal a game. In the Taça de Prata and Campeonato Brasileiro Pele never got close ot averaging a goal a game. However in the weaker Campeonato Paulista, where he played most of his competitive matches, Pele averaged more than a goal a game in ten seperate seasons. I personally think the numbers back up the above highlighted sentence. aLii 20:28, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

1966 world cup section

the "hungary" link links to portugal not hungary.

The good thing is you can fix it yourself, by pressing the "edit this page" button. Anyways, it is now corrected :) Poulsen 11:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Why is Pele regarded as "The Greatest" like if it was a fact of life?? What makes Pele stand out among other Football Greats? His 3 World Cups of course, Pele is praised as having won 3 World Cups (1958, 1962, and 1970) -while in reality- Pele won 2 World Cups (1958 and 1970 - Kind of makes him closer to Zidane and Maradona, doesn't it?), as Brazil actually won the 1962 World Cup without Pele. Garrincha was the outstanding figure of the 1962 World Cup, and Pele's absence was hardly noticeable. And a fact that is so massively overlooked is the fact that the 1958 Brazil side was clearly better than the 1962 Brazil - Now this last statement will always state that "if Brazil won the 1962 World Cup without Pele, then Brazil could have easily won the 1958 and 1970 World Cups without Pele". By the way, The teams that faced Brazil in the 1958 World Cup, well here's an interesting quote from a player who faced Brazil in 1958, Mel Hopkins - "Garrincha was considered more of a threat than Pele back then" "a phenomenon, capable of sheer magic". In fact Didi was voted as the player of the tournament in the 1958 World Cup. Pele was impressive for only being 17 years old, but Pele was NOT the best player of the 1958 World Cup - Both Didi and Garrincha were more outstanding. (Luis, Spain)

Another noticeable fact about Pele, is his unique World Cup record; played 2 out of 4 World Cups, he suffered injuries in 1962 and 1966. It is an odd record because players usually play through the pain barrier, this is the FIFA World Cup Tournament and injured players usually play through it. A noticeable fact about Pele's World Cup record is the fact that Pele only managed to deliver when Brazil had dream-teams, that is Pele only managed to deliver in 1958 and 1970. I mean, did Brazil needed Pele in 1958 and 1970?? Of course not!! they could've easily afforded to play without Pele, just like in 1962. Now, why couldn't Pele deliver when Brazil could not afford to play without him?? Why couldn't Pele deliver in 1966?? What happened in 1962 and 1966?? Well, firstly it is important to acknowledge the fact that Brazil used the same exact 11 players in the 1958 and 1962 World Cups (with a slight difference in 1962, as Pele suffered an injury in the Opening Group Match). In 1966 Brazil used the same aging champions, with a slight change as Nilton Santos didn't figured in the team. Now, unlike in 1958 and 1962 - in 1966 the ex-champions were way past their prime, and they were already veterans by 1962. By 1966 Garrincha was finished, Nilton Santos gone, and Brazil (unlike in 1958, 1962 and 1970)fully depended on Pele. What happened?? Just like in 1962, when things got tough, Pele got injured.. and with Pele's injury, Brazil's hopes of defending the title ended, just like that. (Luis, Spain)

Now the bottom line of the point I'm trying to make is - Pele could not withstand the pressure of playing with average teams, he could not handle the physical pressure, his body could not take it, and proof of that are the 1962 and 1966 World Cups - Pele could not withstand the demands that come hand in hand with being a team's focal point. On the other hand, when Brazil had dream teams playing, that is; Garrincha, Didi, Nilton Santos, Rivelino, Jairzinho, Gerson, Carlos Alberto, etc, etc.. It was in this star-studded sides that Pele managed to deliver because he had freedom, he had space, he had less pressure from opponents because opponents were too busy trying to mark Garrincha. In other words, with the Brazilian veterans of 1962 and 1966 - Pele received more attention and pressure from opponents as Pele was the only player in his prime, only 25 years old by 1966. Luckily for Brazil, Garrincha played by 1962.. but unfortunately there was no Garricnha to save them in 1966. Pele is one of the greatest, that's unquestionable -but- Pele never managed to deliver as his team's focal point, Pele was never a leader for Brazil, Pele never managed to deliver under the same circumstances as Garrincha, Johan Cruijff, and Diego Armando Maradona. (Luis, Spain) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.50.81.81 (talk) 08:22, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

So what point are you trying to make? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.86.150.191 (talk) 01:09, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

GA passed

1. Well written? Pass

2. Factually accurate? Pass

3. Broad in coverage? Pass

4. Neutral point of view? Pass

5. Article stability? Pass

6. Images? Pass

Additional comments :

• The article should state his name as Pelé not as sometimes written Pele (that should be easy to fix).
• The end of the section Santos is a bit weak.
• In the table, the club names should be valigned in the center.

Lincher 17:07, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Cultural depictions of Pelé

I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 15:04, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Pele's goal-record...

Over the summer a few of us did a lot of work on sorting out Pele's goal record, and we added a good list of statistics to the main article. We then modified the statistics a little and kept our progress on the Talk Page, with a few to eventually moving it over. The table still isn't finished, but all that remains to be done is a bit of donkey work (the cells with "question marks" can be easily inferred with a little subtraction). I've moved the table into the article in the hope that someone will do the donkey work for me!! --Jim (Talk) 01:17, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

One more meaning of Pelé

In Lithuanian language the word 'Pelė' means both Mouse and Mouse (computing). See House Mouse (in Lithuanian)

Similar to Lithuanian language is Latvian language. In Latvian language the word 'Pele' have the same meanings as the word 'Pelė' in Lithuanian language. See Mouse (in Latvian)

But the Lithuanian word 'Pelė' is almost exact as the word 'Pelé'.

Robertukas 16:44, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Greatest Player of All-Time

I can provide a large number of links to media and/or expert polls ranking Pele as the best footballer in history. Other than a controversial Internet fan poll that favored Maradona, I know of no other widely publicized poll that did not rank Pele as the top player in history. For that reason, I think it is certainly fair to say that he is widely considered the greatest player of all-time. That choice of words does not assert that it is necessarily the case, or that the certain individuals are not free to disagree, it merely states a belief that is widely held, based on the bulk of the evidence available. If necessary, I'll provide links for the many polls or rankings if anyone thinks that is appropriate or necessary. Ronnymexico 14:28, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Ronny, your insertion of "A consensus of media and expert polls rank Pele as the greatest footballer of all-time. [26]" is still a problem in my view. If these polls are notable (some seem not in my opinion) then they should be listed as, for example, "Pele came top of France Football's Football Player of the Century poll". This should be stated rather than just "A consensus of media and expert polls rank Pele as the greatest footballer of all-time". Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 15:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Do you feel that it's a problem because they aren't spelled out or because you don't feel that it's a consensus? I figured that the "consensus" statement was proven via the link (there are others that aren't there as well, BBC and L'Equipe off the top of my head, I have a list somewhere that I can track down) and thought it would help make the page less cluttered and easier to navigate by simply providing the link rather than listing out "France Football ranks Pele as the best", "International Federation of Football History and Statistics' poll ranks Pele as the best," "La Republicca ranks Pele as the best," "Placar Magazine ranks Pele as the best," etc. etc. Ronnymexico 15:37, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, listing each individual one would be too cluttered. How about "In media and expert polls, Pele consistantly ranks top.", or something along those lines. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 12:22, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe stating that Pele is just one of the best players of all time is not accurate at all. It would be accurate for players like Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Puskas, Platini for example, since they were never voted as the best player in history. In this way you are implying that in some votes Pelé was not voted No.1 but maybe No.3 or No.4. Then when someone checks the references they see that he is voted first in all of them. Look at other sports and examples of Michael Jordan, Roger Federer were it is said that they are considered the all time best. A suggestion is: "According to many football experts and polls Pele is considered as the best footballer of all time." and then cite the references. Or: "Pele is widely regarded as the best player of all time." When IFFS, FIFA, International Olympic Commitee, France Football; BBC polls, etc agree on that, it should be enough. Those are the experts when it comes to Football.Lsw10 (talk) 12:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Relevant discussion at

→ Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football

Pele's last match

Pele's stub on his last match contains some inaccuracies. I suggest it be expanded as follows:

On October 1, 1977, Pelé closed out his legendary career in an exhibition match between the Cosmos and Santos. Santos arrived in New York and New Jersey after previously defeating the Seattle Sounders 2-0. The match was played in front of a capacity crowd at Giants Stadium and was televised in the United States on ABC's Wide World of Sports as well as throughout the world. Pele's father and wife both attended the match. Pele gave a brief pre-match speech during which he asked the crowd to say the word "love" with him three times.

Pele played the first half for the Cosmos and the second half for Santos. Reynaldo scored the first goal for Santos, kicking the ball into the net after it had deflected off the crossbar. Pele then scored his final goal on a direct free kick, driving the ball past the diving Santos goalkeeper.

At halftime, the Cosmos retired Pele's number 10. Pele presented his Cosmos shirt to his father, who was escorted to the field by Cosmos captain Werner Roth.

During the second half, Cosmos striker Ramon Mifflin, who had replaced Pele when he switched sides at halftime, scored on a deflected cross, and the Cosmos won the match 2-1. After the match, Pele was embraced by the Cosmos players, including longtime rival Giorgio Chinaglia, and then ran around the field while holding an American flag in his left hand and a Brazilian flag in his right hand. Pele was soon lifted by several Cosmos players and carried around the field.

After the match, Pele and his wife gave a tearful interview to Frank Gifford of ABC with his wife at his side. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Daesups16 (talk • contribs) 05:19, 15 April 2007 (UTC).

"He is also recognized as the only football player to score more than one thousand goals in the history of professional football."

That is totally wrong...

romario has equalled this tally now, - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6675363.stm but he admits this included youth games and friendly.--Numberwang 10:38, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

lost silver trophie of pele found

i work with a brazilen and he happen to find a silver trophy from brylcreem in the name of pele's name , does anybody now if he lost a trophie dated in 1961 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.19.163.83 (talk) 21:45, 29 April 2007 (UTC).

lost silver trophie of pele found

he happened to go to brazil 17 years ago and went to visit family members, he says he was washing clothing outside and looked up at a window that had an old antique cup on it with tooth brushes in it, he looked up at the cup and grabed it to look at, when he noticed some engraving on it he cleaned it and it read taca de brazil pele's name, brlycreem the reason why he recevied it which was for scoreing the most goals for that year 1961 then he asked the the guy who lived there who was a friend if he can have it and he said he had that cup on his window for years and he was tired of looking at it and he can have it not nowing what it actualy was. i'm writeing this becauce the guy that has this trophie showed it to me and he said he had it for 17 years on his mantal he finaly wanted to now if it was authentic which he says it is but he wants to sell it. personly i think it's real but i have now way of nowing this unless i make it public or some one give me information on going about getting some attention for this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.19.163.83 (talk) 22:19, 29 April 2007 (UTC).

Discoverer

Who is this Medardo 'Lalo' Olea? Is he really a "renowned football star"? Clarityfiend 01:21, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I second Clarityfiend's question. I follow football quite closely but I've never heard of this Medardo character. It would be good to have this point clarified. MUSIKVEREIN 20:30, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like BS to me. Google shows little. A website with the same text as en:WP (so we may have a copyvio issue), and a car dealership in Eureka, Cailfornia showing a picture of a salesman called Medardo Olea. The interesting issue here is that his email address includes the nickname 'Lalo' (Note that Lalo is a common nickname in Spanish). Sounds fishy to me. Now we have to check the logs to see when this was added and by whom. Would you care to bet it came from an ISP serving Eureka, California? Alexf^{(Talk/Contribs)} 21:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

That's what I thought. I've changed it based on a Time magazine source. Clarityfiend 19:07, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Good show, Clarityfiend. That Medardo bit was most likely a vandalistic hoax. MUSIKVEREIN 20:28, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Continuous vandalism

Barely a day goes by without some troll vandalising the Pelé page, thus causing many good faith editors - myself included - the trouble of having to undo insults, POV remarks and inaccuracies thrown in there on a daily basis. Most if not all of these disturbers are anons whose only purpose is to violate the Wikipedia rules. The latest perpetrator, a certain 209.50.156.164, is a case in point: go to his talk page and all you'll find is a staggering roster of warning and temporary blocking messages (to no avail, since he is at it again as soon as the block is lifted). These "users" should be blocked indefinitely. Also, isn't there a technical way to protect the Pelé page from further editing, at least for some time ? MUSIKVEREIN 18:03, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

You can request page protection, in which case IP and new users will not be able to edit the article. I will do this now, as it appears the article is vandalized quite frequently. Jack?! 15:47, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Jack?!. That's exactly what I had in mind. Let's see if giving the page some respite will improve matters at least a little. MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 18:49, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Pele vs Pelé

His nickname definitely carries the accent on the second "e", otherwise, it would not represent how this word is spoken. "Pele", is the word for "skin" in Portuguese, while "pelé" has some other origin . Therefore, I'm replacing all instances of "Pele" in the article for "Pelé". hawck (talk) 01:13, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

It's pointless to use pronunciation as proof of spelling; otherwise we could start respelling all kinds of names. The point is that Pele is an anglicised form of the nickname. Since this article is in English, it would be justifiable to use that spelling. I think it's fine to use the accented form, but you shouldn't just dismiss the alternative in the way that you did. What use is it to say that Pelé has "some other origin" as if that proves anything? Salopian (talk) 10:46, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Why does Pele get different rules to all other players?

I'm just curious. We have a table even in his article, with indepedent sources which say in the league for Santos he scored 589 goals in 605 games, but until I made an edit to correct the infobox it included the unofficial games in the player template.. yet the player template specifically states "Senior club appearances and goals counted for the domestic league only." :$ ... is this not a double standard? All players need to have the same standard. - Sivorian (talk) 22:13, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry

sry for my last mistake, inadvertently I press "save page" instead of "show preview" anyway is good to see that this page had acquired some protection and I agree with Sivorian that all players must have the same standard —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cybershore (talk • contribs) 02:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

it even says in his autobiograghy that his dad made the mistake so it should actually be spelt with no "i". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mazzzzza (talk • contribs) 21:05, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Personal Life

Other than the info about his early life, this entry contains no information about Pele's personal life: girlfriends, wives, children, residences, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.209.105 (talk) 06:03, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

- Perhaps just because it's not interesting. 78.82.231.237 (talk) 21:42, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

My contribution

Hi, I've made a contribution on "Others Records" section of Pele main article. I 'd like to receive commentaries and talk about Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cybershore (talk • contribs) 04:17, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Cybershore, I left a note on your talk page about this. Regards, MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 16:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Urgent Investigation

I suggest that it's necessary to look for more sources of referring information to the statistics since the main used here ( the RSSSF ) does not seem to be inside of acceptable standards of research, it does not present full account of detailed source not provided data for cross validation and comparison with other 'institutions' and all this are essential to avoid the proliferation of Data snooping in Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.52.189.184 (talk) 19:07, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Clean Up

I believe the article about Pele are good but need a clean up or Better explanations about some claims and other player’s names included, basically those names and claims that don’t add nothing to the article and seems, without better reason, just placed to make stand out these same claims ( without fundaments ) and names. I put here my arguments :

1)Maradona : in the FiFa poll by internet some years ago he “won” it with irregularities as for example having 4,000 votes from just one same ID from Argentina and the guy who did it subscribed himself to vote as "george bush jr.". Pele then recognized the sense of humour and the comicality of situation and accepted divide the award ( The Player of the Century ). I content that this important fact must be quote or the mentions about the other player and this award (just one more received by Pele) should be rethinked;

2)Bican : There is no evidence from anywhere Or reliable arguments from more than one independent and established statical institutions that provide the claims about Bican’s supposed records and

3)The claims from these people insist in count only the goals scored by Pele in Championships Leagues But make the curious and rough mistake in consider the goals scored by him in short term International Tournaments between European and South American teams – a very common event in 1960’s – as if scored in friendly matches what seems not just a coarse error but a aforethought and ill-meaning act.

I hope have helped to give some light about this matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.62.138.203 (talk) 00:49, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree there are too much names with flaw claims against him —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.62.34.26 (talk) 19:37, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup in 'Other Records'

I tagged the 'Other Records' section for cleanup--the first paragraph is okay, but the remaining paragraphs have not only grammatical and spelling problems, but also don't read as an encyclopedia should.

The information it presents may be useable in a rewrite, but it definitely needs to be rewritten, as.....well, there's just so much wrong with it--including, as I just noticed, barely relevant, if not completely irrelevant, information concerning Brazilian football teams in general. I'll add an importance-sect template right now.

Excantiaris (talk) 00:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I've not altered this section but I have tried to correct the terible grammar where I can so I think this makes sense now.

ElGreco55 17:12, 13 March 2008

As not everyone can edit this "Encyclopedia that anyone can edit" There's a bad link behind the penalty cards link in "other records" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.216.82.210 (talk) 10:20, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

About Clean Ups requested

Last edition explained:

1st paragraph, after check the complain in Clean up let by 189.62.138.203 (talk) 00:49, 12 March 2008 (UTC) about the excess of names and flaw claims I found some links about the bad organized FIFA internet poll in 2000, I quote one of them here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/1066833.stm specially FROM 3rd and 4th paragraphs to the end. So, to don´t let a negative citation about another player and since this award are really just another one received by Pele I removed this mention as well as the mentions about some names and claims ( other records section – 2nd paragraph from “However, some remember…” to “…a much more modest number came through.” ) that seems placed here just to stand out at Pele’s expenses;

I also rename this same section “Other Records” to “Some Historical Details”, off course this not yet a good name but I think is more related to the matter than the old one anyway feel free to place a better Head for this section.

The last change was made in the same section, last paragraph related to penalty cards, changing for a valid link. I found some citations about Pele as goalkeeper but as no one link ( from those I founded ) was in english I let the request pending.

fazza has a pie head —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.152.231.30 (talk) 17:48, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Robbed in traffic near Sao Paulo ?

When Pele was headed to Sao Paulo is his chauffeur-driven car ,he got robbed and was forced to hand over a watch, a gold chain, and a mobile telephone to a 10-strong gang of thugs. This happened about two weeks ago,I think. Would someone add this to his article,I think that its pretty important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.116.131.155 (talk) 19:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Nickname

I heard somewhere that pele means "miracle" in Hebrew. Certainly a coincidence, but an interesting one. Does someone know anything about it? Zhelja (talk) 15:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Life Magazine

If Pelé was one of the first black persons to be featured on the cover of Life magazine, it would have to have been before Jackie Robinson, May 8, 1950, or Dorthy Dandridge, November 1, 1954. It would be sufficient to say he appeared on the cover and cite the issue date. Group29 (talk) 17:17, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Earnings

Anybody have any information on how much he was paid while playing in Brazil? Also, how did the Brazilian government keep top players from leaving the country to go make big money in Europe, did they take their passports or something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.222.40 (talk) 07:22, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Other Times, Other Culture, Other Economy, Other World

Indeed the restrictions related to refrain the best talents of then Brazilian Football let the country weren't results of a governmental direct acts But a series of regulation, bylaws of Brazilian Sportive Legislation knowed as "Lei do Passe" as well as the Lobby's Power of Club's Managers in the judiciary and legislative branches, amongst others legal ways, to maintain a complete control over the Footballers Professional lives, a social behavior inherit from slavery period.

Unlike the Argentineans and Uruguayans for example, the majority of Brazilian players ( after popularization and mainly after the football in Brazil became Professional since the 1920's and 1930's ), came and still come from the low Social/Financial classes with little, if any, regular school education and historic of politic mobilization. The last Military Dictatorship in Brazil just accentuated these conditions.

Important to note that All this was put to use Not just to avoid that the Top Athletes let the country But to Teams shut the doors Out to them include for others clubs from the same Regional League. For a Great player, change Club was practicable just when his career was clearly in the downside, as Garrincha in the second half of 1960's OR when he was eclipsed by a more talented footballer in his position - in a era when substitutions during the matches weren’t not allowed, this was the case of Mazzola for example - after lose his position, went to Italy and became a idol there playing the 1962 World Cup for Squadra Azzurra ( in those times a player who had did a World Cup for one country wasn't forbade to play another cup for another country ); Same as Filó already had in 1930's. Back to Pele's era, Canario was another player who after lose his position to Garrincha in Botafogo and Brazilian National Team in the end of the 1950's, went to Spain and became champion in the 1960's such as by Madrid.

Much before became minister of Sports in the Fernando Henrique Cardoso's first Administration Pele protest against this situation calling the "Lei do Passe" as a Slavery on Football. Despite the campaign in the Media did by the lobby of clubs against the original project and the after amendments placed by this powerful group, the "Pele's Law" and the "Zico's Law" help to put a end on it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cybershore (talk • contribs) 02:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

• The flood of big money today in Europe ( Western, mainly ) in Football could made the youngers think erroneously that it always was so. But no: Until the middle 1970's there was no specific place in the Earth that, in average, investments in Football financially and in Structure, were more concentrated than another. We can say for sure that this just happened by the first time when the NASL tried popularized the Sport on USA in the 1970's.

They brought the Best ones along that years and spread them across the clubs in that try: just for curiosity - Cruyff in 1974, at his best cost Barcelona U$ 1million, Pele in 1975, returning from retirement cost Cosmos U$ 7 million. The American League had, during and after Pele's passage there, Footballers like Gerd Müller, Neeskens, Franz Beckenbauer, Carlos Alberto, Eusébio, George Best, Bobby Moore, Teofilo Cubillas, Hugo Sanchez and later also Johann Cruyff amonst others in it's teams.

Just in the 1980's after the decadence of NASL and European economic growing, the Talents of Football from all World, from Africa to Japan, even not the exceptional began to migrate there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cybershore (talk • contribs) 01:02, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Note also, that from some time in the 1960s Italy and Spain, traditionally Europe's best paying countries, had their borders closed for foreign players until the early-mid 1970s. England back then was not yet the place of real big money and rather incestuous for whichever reason. France was a nobody and German's hired only relatively cheap Yugoslavs and Austrians. Apart from that, comparisons in US-$ don't really wash, as it is a relatively downward orientated currency. One would be better off trying to compare transfers in Swiss Franks. 58.168.104.12 (talk) 18:14, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

KBE?

Why, of all his honors, is this one put right at the top next to his name? It's simply an honor from a single (relatively small and unimportant) state so it seems very odd indeed that it is given such precedence in this article. I can only surmise that the editor in question is from the country which gave that honor and is attempting in this way to link his or her nation with Pelé. 86.45.1.225 (talk) 01:17, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, this is relative I guess189.62.137.227 (talk) 16:45, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

name

other references has Pele's first name as EDSON and not EDISON —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.56.59.108 (talk) 01:56, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

The best reference to Pele's name is his birth certificate, which can be seen in the movie "Pele Forever". --Tonyjeff (talk) 02:54, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps it is a spelling or usage matter. Both names should be referenced with the birth certificate explanation added. Sabba Hillel (talk) 16:23, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

1966 world cup

And there was me thinking Pele played in that one? Apparently not, for there is no section on it here. I realise that he didn't win but it deserves equal coverage, surely? It was probably the World Cup in which he played the most important role for Brazil, and it was at the peak of his ability. 90.192.223.203 (talk) 17:36, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Bilé

And who is him? Has he got a full name? Is Bilé in itself a nickname? There's no online data on him to confirm his existance... How can this be more than mere myth without such data? Hope someone adds it soon...Undead Herle King (talk) 11:48, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

It seems Bilé was named José Lino da Conceição Faustino, I obtained this name by going from the English wikipedia to the portuguese wikipedia to get the word "goleiro" (goalkeeper") for the search on Vasco Da Gama's football teams and Bilé, but with a photo and all I'm not that much into portuguese to understand any better...Undead Herle King (talk) 11:57, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Redirect Issue

When I enter Pele, I am redirected here to the soccer player's page, when I am instead looking for Pele the Hawaiian goddess. The redirect for Pele should redirect to her, not the soccer player, shouldn't it? Especially give that the goddess IS spelled without the accent mark. 71.38.145.247 (talk) 01:25, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Redirecting has to do also with popularity. The most common use of the word Pele or Pelé is for the brazilian footballer, not for the hawaiian goddess. Lsw10 (talk) 10:31, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Pelé's OTHER DAUGHTER

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Regina_Machado

Put it in

164.41.42.15 (talk) 18:00, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Greatest player of all time

I admire Pelé, but it's too much to say that he was the greatest player of all time. It's not absolutely, because some consider Maradona, or Puskás greater than Pelé. My propose is to change to "one of the greatest", which seems more appropriate, rather than "the greatest".--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:03, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

a couple of suggested additions

Pelé had a prominent, though not starring, role in the 2006 film Once in a Lifetime: The Extraordinary Story of the New York Cosmos that is not listed in the "Acting and film career" section (or anywhere else) in this article.

The Estádio Rei Pelé (english: King Pelé Stadium) was built in Maceió, Brazil in 1970 and named in tribute to Pelé. It could be listed in the "Cultural references" section of this article. 67.86.75.96 (talk) 00:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Edison vs. Edson

There is a controversy now going on the page about the correct spelling of Pelé's real name. What happens is that Pelé was effectively registered as "Edison", because his father got the name from the American inventor Thomas Edison. However, since the form "Edson" is vastly more popular in Brazil, that is the spelling that came to be associated with Pelé's name, and that is how his real name is written virtually everywhere in that country (newspapers, magazines, books, etc.). So, there it is: "Edison" is technically and formally the correct spelling, but everybody in Brazil refers to Pelé's real name as "Edson". MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 13:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

He is definitely named after Thomas Edison, but he's very explicit in his autobiography that his name is Edson. He does not say that it's Edison on the birth certificate but came to be Edson. Might it not be the case that his father used the Edson spelling when registering his birth? Salopian (talk) 11:22, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, Pelé's father registered him as "Edison", exactly like the inventor, and that can be clearly seen in his birth certificate. However and for the reason I pointed out above, everybody in Brazil writes his "real" name as Edson. Therefore, if you want to be technically accurate, it's Edison; if you want to go the way his real name is referred to in his country, it's Edson. Perhaps a way to put an end to this apparently never-ending controversy is to mention this circumstance on his page. MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 12:29, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

No, it's nothing to do with 'everybody in Brazil'. It's what his family called him from the start. (What I imagine may have happened is that the clerk wrote down Edison, assuming the father to be undecuated.) Salopian (talk) 01:40, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I haven't seen his birth certificate. Where can I view it? However, the point is that he was called Edson from birth, regardless of what he he was registered as. So it should be made clear that Edson is not a form that took over once he was famous, but that it was the name his family gave him. Salopian (talk) 10:45, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Pelé's birth certificate can be seen in Aníbal Massaini's documentary feature "Pelé Eterno" (which translates loosely to "Pelé Forever"). In the first part of the movie, there's a camera close up on the certificate, and Pelé's registered name comes through quite clearly. MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 12:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

If "technically" his name was registered as Edison, than Edson is much more a nickname than his name de facto. "Edison" is the name his family gave to him, and in terms of Law he is known as "Edison". It may, perhaps, be pointed that, nevertheless, he's more known as "Edson", but cannot state that this is his name. --Tonyjeff (talk) 23:48, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

No, his de facto name is definitely Edson: unless he is lying in his autobiography, he was called that by his family from birth. It's his de jure name that is apparently Edison. Salopian (talk) 01:37, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

There is no point in arguing de jure and de facto names. I may create a nickname for myself and become more known by it, being called so by relatives and anybody else. The nickname may be a misspelling of my name (in fact, something very common in Brazil). Even so, my name will be the original one, which is registered in my birth certificate. It may be pointed that he is more known as Edson, but not state that this is his name. --Tonyjeff (talk) 14:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

De facto implies something much stronger than just a nickname, and as such describes the situation here. I don't know about Brazilian law, but in the U.K. one can use a different name legally, so long as one uses it everywhere in one's life, without changing it by deed poll. Anyway, the point is that you cannot just state that one's unequivocal name is the one on one's birth certificate. I have no idea about Wikipedia guidelines -- do they state that full name means 'string of letters on one's birth certificate'? Certainly the article should state both what's on the certificate and what he was called from birth unless someone here actually knows what they are talking about when it comes to Brazilian law. You need to get into a neutral mindset, instead of talking about the version used by the family as a "misspelling" of the certificate version. Salopian (talk) 12:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

In Brazil, one must modify the registry of the name to be considered legally, just like Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva and José Sarney. Otherwise, it will be just like a nickname. I have already said that it may be pointed that he is more known as Edson, but not state that this is his name. Even because, if we should consider his name the nick by which he is more known, it would be "Pelé". --Tonyjeff (talk) 04:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I am currently working in collaboration with Pele on an authorized book that takes in his early life and times. He insists on me calling him Edson in our conversations (he refers to Pele in the third person). As he is the greatest footballer of all time, I think we should make it clear in his Wikipedia entry that he considers himself to be Edson, not Edison. I have made the insertion, and look forward to your comments. Kindest regards Sammypepys (talk) 18:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Some users try to change the name "Edison" to "Edson", keeping the same sources for the first name (as a way to disguise their edition). Please, let's take care with it. Thanks. --Tonyjeff (talk) 19:18, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry but this is a big hoax. You are trying to move it to Spanish Wikipedia and we do not believe in that kind of pseudo sources. The only truth about the name of Pele it is Edson, NOT Edison. Check it out and put the end of the hoax.--Futbolero (talk) 09:22, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

If you could only check the movie, and the image of the registry, instead of accusing others of hoax, would be nice. Tonyjeff (talk) 13:25, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

The nice thing would be to avoid this hoax that you are trying to prove in Spanish Wikipedia. I do not know your purpose but Wikipedia should not allow that hoax.--Futbolero (talk) 21:15, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Here is what Pelé says about this in his autobiography (Pele: My Life and the Beautiful Game) :

“ Shortly before I came along, there was another arrival in Três Corações: electricity. In order to celebrate this great improvement to our daily lives, Dondinho named me Edson, a tribute to Thomas Edison, the inventor of the light bulb. In fact, on my birth certificate I am actually called Edison with an 'i', a mistake that persists to this day. I'm Edson with no 'i', but to my eternal annoyance quite often the 'i' appears on official or personal documents and time after time I have to explain why. As if that wasn't confusing enough, they got the date wrong on my birth certificate as well -- it says 21 October. I'm not sure how this came about; probably because in Brazil we're not so fussy about accuracy. This is another mistake that carries on to this day. When I took out my first passport, the date was put in as 21 October and each time I have renewed it the date has stayed the same. ”

My opinion on this matter: Edson is a common forename and Pelé didn't create it as a preferred short form of Edison (for example, Brazilian Edson Mororó Moura was born 10 years before him). Why not believe his story and respect the name he was given, even though it was misspelled on his birth certificate? After all, the same certificate says he was born on the 21st of July October and we report his real birth date in this article. I suggest we spell his first name Edson and add the above quote as a note to explain why one can also find his first name written Edison. — Xavier, 23:10, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone object to this? Another suggestion is that we keep the current policy and we introduce him as Edison "Edson" Arantes do Nascimento and that we change his birth date to "21st of July October" (with a proper explanation note). Anyway, both his name and his birth date must be consistent either with his birth certificate, or with Pelé's claims. In the absence of objection, I'll proceed shortly in one of these modifications. — Xavier, 07:09, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree, Xavier. Regardless of the merit of the proposed modifications, I think it is about time we put an end to this never-ending controversy, which has been going on for nearly three years now. MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 12:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree Xavier. We need to explain the Edison/Edson thing in the article. Also, I have added a reference to the previous only Pelé Eterno reference. emijrp (talk) 16:48, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

 Done. Diff here. I finally chose the second way with a slight modification: both forenames and birth dates are given, along with an extensive explanation including full quotes (original birth certificate and Pelé's opinion). Hope you will all agree with this. — Xavier, 15:07, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

BTW, as you can see, the actual source of Pelé's quote is not the 1977 book "Pele: My Life and the Beautiful Game", as stated on Amazon website, but a 2006 book titled "Pelé: the autobiography". I fixed this too. — Xavier, 15:10, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Another Meaning of Pele

{{editsemiprotected}}"Please change Apart from the assertion that the name is derived from that of Bilé, the word has no known meaning, although it is the name of a Hawaiian volcano goddess and it does resemble the Irish language word peile, meaning football. to While it is asserted that the name is derived from that of Bilé, the name has a direct coincidental Hebrew meaning. The Hebrew word pele( פּלא )literally translates to mean magic, a wonder or a miracle. In fact the word pelefon (פלאפון)has come to be a very common Hebrew word for the cellphone. Pele is also the name of a Hawaiian volcano goddess and it resembles the Irish language word peile, meaning football." 196.23.237.214 (talk) 21:02, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

The Hebrew word pele( פּלא )literally translates to mean a wonder or a miracle.Please change the fact that "the word has no known meaning" . Reference http://www.babynames.com/name/PELE

In fact the word 'pelefon' (פלאפון)has come to be a very common Hebrew word for the cellphone. The literal meaning of the word in Hebrew can be translated as wonder-phone or magic-phone. Pele means a wonder or a miracle or magic and 'fon' comes from the English word phone. Reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelephone Please include this interesting fact in the article ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.141.15.34 (talk) 08:39, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

The fact that pele (פלא) in Hebrew means "wonder" is a pure coincidence. The Hebrew word has the first sylable as the strongest, while in Hebrew the second is the strongest (hence the accent over the second "e" in his name: Pelé). The article states that the origin is the name of goal keeper Bilé, so there is no point in mentioning the Hebrew meaning, since there is not actual relation. Renato (talk) 22:38, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

196.23.241.140 (talk) 19:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC) Joel Block (Johannesburg, South Africa)

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. However, Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). Nonetheless, please remember to a cite a reliable source for any possibly contestable changes. Intelligentsium 02:22, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Name Continued

If you look at the picture where it says "The marks that Pelé left inside the Maracanã Stadium", the plaque above his foot prints reads Edson Arantes do Nascimento. So his name should be spelt Edson not Edison. Sst787 (talk) 19:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC) sst787

It cannot be denied that he's more known as "Edson", and much of the media uses this spelling. However, his "name" is what was legally registered. Marilyn Monroe changed her name legally; Pele didn't. --Tonyjeff (talk) 19:16, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Sambking, 28 May 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} Pele's official first name is EDSON, withOUT an "i" not Edison with and "i".

Sambking (talk) 01:25, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

From a bit of Googling, it looks like his birth certificate says Edison but he prefers Edson; sources vary a bit. If you'd like to write some appropriate referenced information with reliable sources, please do so and resubmit. Thanks,  Chzz  ►  01:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

 Not done

Bald

Pelé means "bald" in French. See Mont Pelé. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.2.155.28 (talk) 17:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't think so. "Bald" in French is "Chauve". MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 21:38, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 67.177.157.189, 5 June 2010

{{editsemiprotected}}

Pele's first name is Edson, not Edison. http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/players/player=63869/index.html

67.177.157.189 (talk) 21:47, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

 Not done: This has been discussed at great length on this talk page. It appears that his first name is "Edison" according to his birth certificate, though he prefers "Edson" himself. Favonian (talk) 22:39, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

nickname from Gaelic

Please note as part of Wikipedia:Pending changes review I have just accepted this edit that purports "Peile" "resembles" the genitive for football in Gaelic. I noted that the BBC page cited does have a user-provided comment on an Irish meaning, but this therefore may not meet Wikipedia's standard for a reliable source. The BBC article proper does not mention Gaelic, Irish, or Wales at all, but does state "he has found out that it means miracle in Hebrew", which is missing from the wikipedia page. A more knowlegable editor could review that section. -84user (talk) 16:05, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Note that I have just now reworded that sentence to match the source. -84user (talk) 10:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Stats are wrong

Stats summary for all normal players in Wikipedia count only national leagus matches. Why Pele's stats include all the matches (including frendly ones)? This should be fixed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.205.206.22 (talk) 21:21, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Attention: name

The name written on the picture of his feet marks is Edson (not Edison), and on www.imdb.com it says it's Edson too. --201.214.5.211 (talk) 19:51, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

See #Edison vs. Edson. —Stephen (talk) 20:03, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

(ec) IMDb is NOT a reliable source. Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 20:27, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Automate archiving?

Does anyone object to me setting up automatic archiving for this page using MiszaBot? Unless otherwise agreed, I would set it to archive threads that have been inactive for 30 days and keep ten threads.--Oneiros (talk) 23:06, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

 Done--Oneiros (talk) 16:57, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Minor fix

Can someone (registered) edit the ungrammatical text under the photo that reads: "Pelé cries on the shoulder of a peaceful Gilmar, after Brazil win the 1958 Cup." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.74.24.2 (talk) 16:26, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, but what do you suggest exactly? If you mean "wins" instead of "win", "win" is correct considering we are talking about the Brazilian team. See discretionary plurals. — Xavier, 00:52, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

One of the greatest of all time

Pele is considered one of the greatest of all time.There is still heated debate weather he or Maradonna are th greatest.The greatest of all time sintagma in the beggining is NPOV and is illegal in an encyclopedia.For every fan poll naming Pele the greatest I can bring 2 naming Marradona the greatest.Plus none of your sources or polls are cited or given links too.The greatest of all time is a subjective distinction,not official and should not be named in an Encyclopedia. I will change the sintagma at the beginning to one of the greatest football players of all time as it is the encylopedic thing to do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neohertz (talk • contribs) 20:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

"Many sports analysts, tennis critics, and former and current players consider Federer to be the greatest tennis player of all time." - Roger Federer

"Many of Jordan's contemporaries label Jordan as the greatest basketball player of all time" - Michael Jordan

"Many analysts, as well as former and current fighters, consider Emelianenko to be the greatest mixed martial artist of all time" - Fedor Emelianenko

Quotes from Wikipedia.

"Not a encylopedic thing to do"? Funny statement hahahaha

What a joke. It' curious how many articles have this "greatest of all time" phrase, but only in here those 4 words are so problematic.

I imagine if we bring this kind of discussion in Jordan article. How funny would be! BoleiroRJ (talk) 20:49, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

The KJordan article has been modified.I'll work on the emeliamenko,Federer etc etc pages —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neohertz (talk • contribs) 23:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

"A consensus of media and expert polls rank Pelé as the greatest footballer of all time" -- This statement is justified with reference to footnote 112, which does not in fact verify this claim. Instead, it notes that 6 players consistently finish at the top of lists of great players, Pele being one of them. Consider revising. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.46.218.119 (talk) 06:33, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Modification of introduction

Could the person modifing the introduction of the please stop doing it.The sources provided form very obscrure sites only name Pele the greatest footballer of the century not of all time.As far as know time has not ended yet.Until you can find a valid source naming him the greatest of all time refrain from unneccesary modifications. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neohertz (talk • contribs) 10:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

wondering why pele' used EDSON instead of EDISON

Wondering why Pele' used the name "EDSON" instead of Edison the name he was born with?EdsonandrejohnsonVICTORMOI (talk) 04:42, 5 January 2011 (UTC) www.roblox.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.211.142.164 (talk) 02:09, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Pelé's number of team awards

It's written in the article that "The tally of 32 official team trophies makes him the player with most career titles[citation needed]". First of all, I counted 31 : 1 in America, 5 with the Brazil National Team, and 25 with Santos. Secondly, the most titled footballer in history, with 32 team trophies, is Ryan Giggs. He got his 32nd trophy in August 2010 when Manchester United beat Chelsea FC in the Community Shield. Check his page to verify what I am saying. Thank you. 00:18, 4 February 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.221.226.162 (talk)

Edit request from Etandre, 17 February 2011

{{edit semi-protected}}

Dear friends,

I'm sending more information about the Pelé brand, and reliable sources to help with my request for a change on the topic about his carrer after football. Having these in mind, I also change the paragraph that I first send it to you guys.

Please check these links to verify the information, since we are a Brazilian Company, some of them are in Portuguese:

http://esportes.terra.com.br/futebol/noticias/0,,OI4750131-EI1832,00-Jornal+aos+anos+marca+Pele+e+avaliada+em+R+milhoes.html

http://oglobo.globo.com/esportes/mat/2010/10/22/pele-70-anos-rei-vale-600-milhoes-922851482.asp

http://www.pele-sports.com/en#/main

http://blog.pele-sports.com/us/tag/brand-launch/

http://www.footballfigure.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=700

http://academyofchampions.us.ubi.com/the-game/

http://academyofchampions.us.ubi.com/the-game/pele/

http://www.artofpele.com/

So please Change the following part about his after football carrer, from:

'After football Prime Licensing, the company created and owned by the long time friend and fashion businessman Jose Alves de Araujo, now manages the Pele brand including contracts with Puma AG, Pelestation, QVC, Fremantle Media, Pele L'uomo and Pele Arena coffee houses, amongst others.[50]'

To these:

'After football Prime Brands, a Brazilan Licensing Company created in 2006, directed by CEO José Kanner, now manages the Pele brand including contracts with Pele Sports, Kotobukiya, Ubisoft, the Art of Pelé amongst others.'

'

Thank you very much!

Etandre (talk) 12:06, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -Atmoz (talk) 17:35, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

New request to Change the text about his After football carrer

Dear friends,

I'm sending more information about the Pelé brand, and reliable sources to help with my request for a change on the topic about his carrer after football. Having these in mind, I also changed the paragraph that I first sent to something more simple and more easily verified.

Please check these links to verify the information about our partners, and since its a Brazilian Company, some articles with interviews from the actual CEO in Portuguese:

http://esportes.terra.com.br/futebol/noticias/0,,OI4750131-EI1832,00-Jornal+aos+anos+marca+Pele+e+avaliada+em+R+milhoes.html

http://oglobo.globo.com/esportes/mat/2010/10/22/pele-70-anos-rei-vale-600-milhoes-922851482.asp

http://www.pele-sports.com/en#/main

http://blog.pele-sports.com/us/tag/brand-launch/

http://www.footballfigure.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=700

http://academyofchampions.us.ubi.com/the-game/

http://academyofchampions.us.ubi.com/the-game/pele/

http://www.artofpele.com/

So please Change the following part about his after football carrer, from:

'After football Prime Licensing, the company created and owned by the long time friend and fashion businessman Jose Alves de Araujo, now manages the Pele brand including contracts with Puma AG, Pelestation, QVC, Fremantle Media, Pele L'uomo and Pele Arena coffee houses, amongst others.[50]'

To these:

'After football Prime Brands, a Brazilian Licensing Company created in 2006, directed by CEO José Kanner, now manages the Pele brand including contracts with Pele Sports, Kotobukiya, Ubisoft, the Art of Pelé amongst others.'

Thank you very much!

André --Etandre (talk) 18:09, 3 March 2011 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Etandre (talk • contribs) 13:28, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

number of goals scored

http://www.rsssf.com/players/prolific.html#pele that is the link.

he scored Overview Matches and Goals

Season Official Friendly/Benefit Overall Accumulated

             Matches  Goals  Matches  Goals   Matches  Goals   Matches  Goals

1956 2 2 2 2 1957 40 43 33 23 73 66 75 68 1958 53 75 15 14 68 89 143 157 1959 55 65 49 61 104 126 247 283 1960 49 44 33 29 82 73 329 356 1961 38 62 37 49 75 111 404 467 1962 40 54 19 19 59 73 463 540 1963 42 52 17 22 59 74 522 614 1964 38 54 12 6 50 60 572 674 1965 52 72 23 34 75 106 647 780 1966 28 20 22 22 50 42 697 822 1967 32 25 33 31 65 56 762 878 1968 48 35 34 25 82 60 844 938 1969 55 48 23 20 78 68 922 1006 1970 44 19 31 40 75 59 997 1065 1971 42 8 32 22 74 30 1071 1095 1972 36 14 38 36 74 50 1145 1145 1973 40 25 27 28 67 53 1212 1198 1974 35 15 10 4 45 19 1257 1217 1975 9 5 15 10 24 15 1281 1232 1976 24 15 20 11 44 26 1325 1258 1977 31 17 11 6 42 23 1367 1281 1978 2 0 2 0 1369 1281 1979 1 0 1 0 1370 1281 1980 1 2 1 2 1371 1283 1983 1 1 1 1 1372 1284 1984 1 0 1 0 1373 1284 1987 1 0 1 0 1374 1284 1990 1 0 1 0 1375 1284 831 767 544 517 1375 1284

so that is 767 OFFICIAL Goals for both SANTOS and COSMOS — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pierreleone (talk • contribs) 13:07, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

2008 Divorce?

I've read on some websites that he divorced Assiria in 2008. Is this true? If so, can someone update the page to show it?

Booyahhayoob (talk) 05:17, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

pele date of birth

as described in wiki about pele his actual date he was born was 23 October. The entry is shown as 21 or 23rd which should be changed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sweep1963 (talk • contribs) 05:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

File:Santos Campeao Div 60.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Totally Agree - Pele was as close as a Centre Forward throughout his career, not a playmaker

Yup, It's a shame they list him as playmaker in wikipedia, he was the best centre forward of all time, he could score goals in every way. How would he score so many goals behind the two strikers or from the midfield? I think they are confusing the positions with second striker, deep laying forward and playmaker. Pele did play as a second striker towards the end of his career, mostly in the 1970 worldcup. Tostao a natural centre forward and Pele were fighting over the centre forward position. They opted for Pele playing a little behind Tostao because he was the main attraction and could draw marking. Maybe that's where the confusion arose, but he played as a centre forward throughout his career. To be considered a playmaker, you have to do a lot of passing and support the offensive team. Didi was known to do this in the 1958 1962 worldcup, while vava and Pele were centre forwards ( if you could have 2). I'll try to edit this when I can. But your reference only states his function in the field (which is mostly a centre forward or a forward) but does not clearly state he was a centre forward, although this is pretty known. I'll try to find an article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Natsunoyuutsu (talk • contribs) 16:51, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Pelé was a No. 10

A No. 10 in the old days ('50s, '60s) in Brazil was a ponta-de-lança, a support striker who dropped into midfield and had playmaking skills. Like L. Messi and W. Rooney do today. The No. 10 was not the primary playmaker of a team, but was the offensive playmaker.

The primary playmaker back then was the deep-lying playmaker, called meia-armador in Brazil, and who usually wore the No. 8 shirt. These were players like Gerson, Didi, Zito or nowadays Xavi, Iniesta, X. Alonso, L. Modric, A. Pirlo.

In '69/1970 coach M. Zagallo switched the formation from the classic 4-2-4 to a loopsided and quite modern 4-2-3-1 in witch Pelé was used as a Central Attacking Midfielder behind Tostao and between Rivelino (left) and Jairzinho (right). The top 4 were very fluid when attacking witch led to many calling the formation a 4-2-4, 4-4-2 or 4-3-3. But Zagallo said it was really a 4-2-3-1/ 4-5-1. Pelé wasn't the top goal scorer for Brazil 1970, Jairzinho was that, but he helped with a lot of assist and by drawing defensive players around him thus creating space for his team mates.

So Pelé was both the old No. 10/ ponta-de-lança/, the modern CAM ,and sometimes he also played as a winger.

All great No. 10s had great passing skills and vision. The difference between the ponta-de-lança/ No. 10s and the CAM No. 10s is that the ponta-de-lança needed a deep-lying playmaker while the CAM 10s can work with or without them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.116.246.134 (talk) 19:58, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Pele was very close to a number 10 in the 70 worldcup and after that=

Pele said himself the playmaker of the 1958 team in 1958 was Didi, him and Vava were central forwards.You can watch the games and youll see Pele in the penalty box area most of the time. Fifa also said he spent his life in the penalty box and a striker and never mentions him as a playmaker, except in the 1970 where FIFA suggests he was a playmaker ALONG 3 OTHER PLAYMAKERS. Pele changed to a second striker which leads to passing and less goals but that is not a playmaker or a true number 10, a true number 10(today) does more playmaking than goals and if he ever scores he has to dribble past a lot of players. Besides before that worldcup, and before the worldcup the qualifying games he played he was not the same position as in the worldcup, he was a central forward.

The discussion is not wether or not he was an old number 10, but a playmaker which is basically what a modern 10 or classic 10 is. He was a central forward or/and second striker but not today's playmaker, if we put that in the article itll make people think he scored 1200 goals from the midfield. If the old number 10 meant he was a forward with a lot of skills such as dribbling, passing, etc...that doesnt make him a playmaker of today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.100.220 (talk) 01:16, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Everaldo - Piaza - Brito - C.A. Torres

At NY Cosmos Pele was the source of creativity in a very CAM playmaker sort of way for quite a time (at least until Beckenbauer came to organize things from the deep) with Giorgio Chinaglia being the goal scorer.

There is no such thing as a classical Number 10, it's just a media invention. Both a trequartista/engache/CAM, a ponta-de-lanca, a meia ponta-de-lanca, a free role fantezista, a total footballer with no fixed position like Cruyff, or occasionally a skilled deep-lying playmaker wore the Number 10 shirt. Historically it variates from country to country and from system to system. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.116.241.212 (talk) 21:35, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from CHRTKD1, 4 September 2011

In "after football" an important piece was recently omitted from the paragraph. It stated the name of the creator of the company Prime Licensing, Jose Alves de Araujo, who created the company by the request of the long time friend Pele' himself. He sold 75% of the company to the Group Inpar. The original paragraph read: " The company Prime Licensing, created by the long time friend and fashion businessman Jose Alves de Araujo..." A professional picture of the two of them can also be added to the article if requested.

Here are some links supporting the statement:

http://www.allydirectory.com/Biographies/pele-biography/

http://googlebliss.blogspot.com/2007/06/pele-king-of-football.html

http://www.pophistorydig.com/?tag=pele-advertising

http://www.revistacafeicultura.com.br/index.php?tipo=ler&mat=8956#axzz1X1kBN4HE

http://www.huntas.com/sports/s4.htm

http://www.enotes.com/topic/Pel%C3%A9

http://peleedsonsite.in/family.html

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090227194923AA1CFjQ

http://www.peabirus.com.br/redes/form/post?post_pub_id=21904

http://www.panoramabrasil.com.br/empresa-que-detem-a-marca-pele,-fecha-negocio-milionario-id7581.html

http://www.allydirectory.com/Biographies/tag/sports/

Please search google for Jose Alves de Araujo Pele. CHRTKD1 (talk) 22:41, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Is there any consensus for adding this information to the article? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:50, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

This information was originally in the article and it is more relevant since it states the origins of the company and the initiative to explore the Pele' brand at this level for the first time. The company's CEO has changed multiple times and the information is not updated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.93.209.25 (talk) 06:24, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Pelé's goals and matches

Any citation by the official source outranks any original research by anyone. Strawberry on Vanilla (talk) 16:26, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

True, citations from reliable sources alway beat original research. However, all citations from reliable sources should be considered. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:32, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Things that can be figured out through basic math does not count as OR last I checked. Besides, this isn't an issue of citations. It's a consensus issue. If the project agreed to only list domestic apps and goals, that's all that matters. I don't know why Brazilians (Pele, Romario, Rogerio Ceni, among others) like to include statistics from unofficial matches in their career totals, but no one else does. Official is all that really matters in career stats. Digirami (talk) 16:53, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

A couple of points I'd like to make, looking in on this from the outside...

Firstly, it seems that you have misunderstood what exactly the consensus is that Digirami has talked about -- it's not a consensus that Pelé only scored 589 goals, it's a consensus that the infobox should only show the domestic league numbers. Naturally, nobody is denying that Pelé scored over 1,000 goals -- we're all well aware of what is probably the most important stat in football history, nor does anyone intend to downplay the accomplishment. It's just that including friendlies and cup games is not the established precedent, and there is no reason that I can see that Pelé (or anyone else) should be granted an exception to this consensus decision without a clear indication of a change in consensus.

Secondly, these secondary, reliable sources are NOT original research: original research consists of unpublished ideas from Wikipedia editors. Nobody is doing that here -- neither you, nor Digirami. The relevant policy:

"The term "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published source exists."

As these sources are reliable and published, their content is the very opposite of original research.

Thirdly, the infobox clearly states:

"Senior club appearances and goals counted for the domestic league only."

(Emphasis mine.) The cited source, while reliable, does NOT make it clear what the content is -- whether it is talking about all apps and goals, or the domestic league only. As this is the case, I would be very hesitant in using it; we must not personally interpret what primary sources say. From WP:OR:

"Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation."

And I believe this is what you're doing -- it's your interpretation of this source that it covers the domestic league results too, when that is not necessarily the case. Do you have any sources which prove those figures are for the domestic league, and not for all competitions? If not, I don't believe this complies with the above section of WP:OR, even though it's a reliable source. Considering we have numerous reliable, secondary sources which make it explicitly clear what his domestic league stats are, I believe we should be using those ahead of the Santos source. I understand how this must be frustrating, and I certainly don't write this simply to chastise your editing or anything like that. It's just that when I look at this situation as an uninvolved editor, and read the relevant policies and consensus decisions, this is how I believe the article should appear. Regards, Buttons to Push Buttons (talk | contribs) 19:38, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Logan, 11 September 2011

Please replace {{pp-semi-blp|small=yes}} at the top of the article with {{pp-dispute}}, as it is causing the article to show up in Category:Wikipedia pages with incorrect protection templates.

Logan _Talk ^{Contributions} 01:07, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Will do. Kuru (talk) 01:49, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request - removal of early reference to knighthood.

I think the reference to him being a honorary KBE is made too soon, as if it defines him. Pele holds many titles, an KBE is but one of them. Since he is not a British citizen, has done nothing much that specifically links him to the UK, the preeminence of the title seems strange. George Bush Sr and Ronald Reagan also hold honorary British titles but, understandably, it is not the first thing you see after their name — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.43.73.164 (talk) 19:12, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I found this, which pretty much says the same thing: WP:POSTNOM Post-nominal initials Shortcuts: WP:INITIAL WP:POSTNOM See also: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people)#Middle names and abbreviated names Post-nominal letters (aka honorific suffixes), other than those denoting academic degrees, should be included when they are issued by a country or widely recognizable organization with which the subject has been closely associated. Honors issued by other entities may be mentioned in the article, but should generally be omitted from the lead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.43.73.164 (talk) 19:20, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Playing style

I am interested in a section highlighting Pelé's playing style. The page for Diego Maradona has such a section, so I am sure Pelé's page could use one as well. I think it would be instructive to know what skills and attributes made Pelé such an incredible (association) football/soccer player.

DaDoc540 (talk) 04:50, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 February 2012

Pele 15239 (talk) 12:34, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

No request made--Jac16888 ^Talk 12:43, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Honors

At the moment the section states: "A consensus of media and expert polls rank Pelé as the greatest footballer of all time.[119]". Nothing like that is stated in the source given (it only states that Pelé is one of six players mentioned in every ranking that they reviewed). It's safe to say that there is absolutely no consensus about Pelé (or anyone else) being the greatest footballer of all time. -79.188.40.77 (talk) 13:55, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Greatest players

If Maradona's article is "greatest player of all time", why isn't Pelé's the same? Doesn't it take only quotes of specialists saying that? 189.104.115.3 (talk) 20:36, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

This is nice. Keep partiality! 201.50.21.123 (talk) 16:12, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Add to New York Cosmos section

During this time Pele increased the amount of people coming to New York Cosmos games. The average amount of people coming to these games where about 20,000 people. Also, Pele used his popularity to promote soccer in the US. This brought more hope and interest for the game of soccer, and was the start of its revolution. The revolution continued to grow as Pele played for the Cosmos, but when he left the popularity started to die down. Though the popularity of soccer started to go down, Pele still inspired people to love the game of soccer, which was an improvement. Without Pele coming to the US, soccer may not be where it is today. Zcoyle8000 (talk) 22:07, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Wrong number of appearances and goals in the infobox

If the infobox stats are for domestic leagues only, then the stats in the infobox are wrong. According to the career stats table further down the page, Pele played 605 games, scoring 589 goals for Santos. The Cosmos stats are also wrong. In the Cosmos career stats table, the NASL column combines both league and post-season tournament games. Pele actually played 56 league games and scored 31 goals for the Cosmos, not 64 and 37.^[24] I almost made these changes but decided to highlight the discrepancies here first since the page is semi-protected. Mohrflies (talk) 02:09, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Greatness

Please change the sentence "He is widely regarded as the best football player of all time" to "He is widely regarded as one of the best football players of all time" as before. He is not widely regarded as the best after Maradona and now Messi. He lost internet based poll to Maradona by wide margins at the time of selecting the football player of the century in 1999. (53.6% for Maradona and 18.53% for Pele) This statement is disrespectful to majority of people in the world who can not edit the page anymore. Wikipedia is liable for giving true information to people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.202.22 (talk) 04:18, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

• Well, the problem is that the current sentence has a half a dozen references, and all you're offering is mention of a 1999 internet poll. Drmies (talk) 04:21, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
  • It really shouldn't contain so many references. I've taken out the ones not in English. See Wikipedia:Citation_overkill. I would be grateful if someone can apply WP:CITEBUNDLE as well which shows us what we should be aiming at but not, unfortunately, how to do it. --bodnotbod (talk) 13:25, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

1958 World Cup final date error

"On 19 June 1958 Pelé became the youngest player to play in a World Cup final match" is probably wrong - the 1958 World Cup final was on June, 29. 91.4.230.129 (talk) 16:21, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

International Goals

It would be good to see all of Peles 77 International Goals on a list like with other players here in Wikipedia.Lsw10 (talk) 22:48, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

de Brito - who is that?

The article currently says at the top of section Club career -Santos "In 1956, de Brito took Pelé to Santos...". Which De Brito does it refer to? --bodnotbod (talk) 14:19, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

That would be Waldemar de Brito, Brazilian coach and footballer mentioned in the article's third paragraph. MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 15:17, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Ah! Since the earlier mention is wikified I don't need to make an edit. I should have spotted the earlier mention. Thank you :) --bodnotbod (talk) 10:56, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

SANTOS WEBPAGE

Santos F.C have obviously made a mistake. That cannot be counted as a reliable source because they don't even list Pele as a forward or a striker which was his most used position and they simply say Attacking Midfielder.

Pele clearly stated what was his position through his book at santos and it was NOT at all attacking midfielder but he DID drop a bit back then forward to assist and that was a second striker , which was his second position to center forward. He started a center forward when he joined Santos and moved back to SS when coutinho was available and stayed SS and switching to CF back and forth the rest of his career at Santos.

He also switched to center forward for the national team. At no point in santos was he a midfielder save one or two times as clearly stated in his book when the midfielder of the team was injured and he also mentioned he did not perform as good as he would like in the midfield.

The Attacking midfielder that everyone knows about TODAY is different from that midfielder of the 60s 70s anyways.

The attacking midfielder evolved after the 70s and he sits behind ALL the strikers and simply assists more than to score as clearly stated in the picture I provided above.

Santos F.C "webpage" and not the club have OBVIOUSLY made a mistake about Pele's position because he wore the number 10 and the number 10 is now associated with attacking midfielder in south american football or the "enganche".

An Attacking midfielder would be ganso or Valdivia. These two played in Brazilian football and they wore the number 10 and they are listed in the Brazilian Wikipedia as attacking midfielder and the brazilian wikipedia is clearly aware of this and only list Pele as a forward.

FIFA.com never mentions Pele playing as an attacking midfielder and they have hundreds of articles about Pele. Pele's very own book never mentions playing attacking midfielder even if there was such position in an era where they had 5 to 4 forwards. FIFA.com also has a page listing all the players according to their position and Pele is the forward section.

Any editing back to attacking midfielder on Pele's profile can be considered vandalism now. I'm moving on to other articles. You cannot consider a reliable source where the information they provided is OBVIOUSLY wrong, they don't list Pele as a striker AND attacking midfielder. They list him only as attacking midfielder as if it was his position his entire career. This is a mistake because he wore the number 10 or simply an overexageration.

As for now it's better to stick with more reliable sources: FIFA statistics and biographies and Pele's very own book.

Edit back to AM if you want but know that you are doing something terribly wrong.

Hoshinonamida (talk) 02:14, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

t-shirt

under the subtitle National Team Career, it is mentioned that Pele first wore a t-shirt numbered 10 for the first time in 1958. while that is true, the use of the word t-shirt is somewhat naive-sounding. it should be called a jersey. maybe its not that big of a deal but it just sounds wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.167.57.237 (talk) 22:42, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Pele also played as an attacking midfielder

Pele played as a deep lying forward and as a midfielder as well, especially after 1970.Lsw10 (talk) 12:53, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

He desribed so in his autobiography, and it is also stated in Santos Official Website. http://www.santosfc.com.br/en/conteudo.asp?id=28305 Videos showing Pele´s positioning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqjov55658o , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BK0Ldu51so, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MrrK5_Zknc, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmOYl5DSUaM Lsw10 (talk) 00:49, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

User LSW10 is out of control =

Lol, he changed some of Pele's info full of lies. Keep an eye on him.

Pele played as deep-lying forward most of his career? He was a center forward most of his career as said in his book and FIFA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.117.45.144 (talk) 06:04, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

That is a big lie. Learn what a deep-lying forward is. His book says that also.Lsw10 (talk) 18:47, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Encyclopedia Britannica describes Pelé as an inside left forward, not center forward. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/449124/Pele http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_forward Lsw10 (talk) 20:20, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

FIFA official website: http://es.fifa.com/worldfootball/news/newsid=1533790.html Pele says his playing style and position resembles that of Xavi who is a Midfielder. Lsw10 (talk) 12:18, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Attacking Midfielder should not be in Pele's Description =

I think the sidebar should describe the position that really described the player. Pele played most of his career as forward as stated in his book and in the introductory paragraph of this article.

Saying Pele was an AM as well as Forward is a big misconception in the world of football.

I believe this will cause mis-information worldwide to all Football readers.

I have to agree with Santo's website being confused with the number 10 being AM.

FIFA links are more accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.45.171.217 (talk) 05:39, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Pele played over 1000 games for Santos, and very few in FIFA competitions, therefore Santos Offfical Website is a a very good source concerning accuracy.Lsw10 (talk) 18:50, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Okay for the sake of wikipedia

This article is so biased it's unbelievable.

Pele also does NOT HOLD the record of most officials goals scored. It is Romario.

Pele is the all time top scorer in League goals. Lsw10 (talk) 22:59, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

No, the record for official goals belongs to Bican, 805+ goals. http://www.rsssf.com/players/prolific.html Bican and Romario's records also count Second Division goals.Lsw10 (talk) 20:39, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Pele was mostly a forward, not a playmaker

Edit: For example look at this paragraph below, somebody switched the forward word for playmaker. Look at the link from FIFA, it clearly says he was a forward pure forward who spent his life in the penalty box area to score. He was not a playmaker !!!! The paragraph below doesn't make sense:

Ok, I'm sorry but for the sake of wikipedia. Let football experts or people who know something football edit the technical details. Pele was not a forward, a forward also known as enganche in spanish or meia in portuguese plays behind the two playmakers, and cannot score goals unless he dribbles past A LOT of players and finishes the play himself which pele rarely did as he only had to go past 1 or 2. A second striker is a playmaker, a forwards role is to pass, assists, move the offensive team forward, orchestrate the team. Pele was a playmaker, his main function throughout his career was to score goals which were set up by the forwards in his team, although towards the end of his career he probably did have forward functions. That is why he scored and has the world record of most goals scored, he was a playmaker.

Although he was a number 10, that number was fortituous, FIFA randomly assigned numbers back then and he ended up with the number 10. But a number 10 traditionally is a playmaker not a forward,so he's a forward.

Anyways, read this article which says Pele was a playmaker, pure playmaker and not a forward. The article is from FIFA. There are many but this is the only one I found when i looked for forward in FIFA.COM.

http://www.fifa.com/newscentre/news/newsid=76134.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.172.236 (talk) 19:30, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

The random number assignments came in 1958 Brazil World Cup squad and were not made by FIFA. Pele already had the number 10 shirt in Santos before that World Cup.Lsw10 (talk) 22:41, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Pele was a midfielder, not a forward. He has a record in passes that resulted in goals as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.93.209.25 (talk) 06:27, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Pele played both in midfield and in the attack. Santos official website says Pele was an Attacking Midfielder. Zico, nicknamed "the White Pele" was also an attacking midfielder.Lsw10 (talk) 12:44, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes he played in ALL over the forward position. You can't compare 1960-70s football to 1980-1990s football. The attacking midfielder position arose later as the number 10 sitting behind the two strikers. Pele was a second striker next to coutinho throughout most of his career.

Zico was named the white Pele because he was complete just like Pele or should any attacking midfielder be named Pele.

I think the admins need to ban ls10 from pele's thread. He is a biased editor, his sole purpose is to make Pele look even better by editing his position and other data while putting down on Maradona's article. Check his history ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.117.58.1 (talk) 15:43, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

I always use references so what you say is completely invalid. Santos Official Website confirms Pele´s position. Zico is known as the White Pele. Why would that be the case if they had a different style and position. Zico was an Attacking MIdfielder and at the same time scored a lot of goals, over 800 in his career.Lsw10 (talk) 19:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)