Talk:National anthem of Russia

Will this transliteration be a sentence based on what system? --kahusi - (Talk) 03:16, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Can't say I understood the question that well, but Russian transliteration guidelines are outlined in this article. Current anthem transliteration is different and probably should be changed as it is of little use to English speakers.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 16:05, Mar 7, 2005 (UTC)

Especially for you, Ёжик: I know two real Latin alphabets for Russian. The first (which was developed in USSR and could be used) is described here: [1], and the second — more beautiful and useful — here : [2]. So, try to understand, that THIS variant can never be considered as transcription as transliteration. It's unreadable.

Good luck.

The system for transliterating Russian text used in English Wikipedia is BGN/PCGN (a slightly modified version of which is described in the Transliteration of Russian into English article; it is to be used mostly for geographical and personal names when no commonly used English variant is available). The two systems you are referring to serve completely different purposes—one seems to be a "beautiful" system of using Latin scripts to render Cyrillics; the other is a system of transliteration that does not specifically target English speakers. Both of those systems have merits, but not when it is necessary to transliterate a Russian text in such a way as for it to be readable for English speakers; furthermore, none of those two systems is widely used or even recognizable. For that purpose, BGN/PCGN fits the bill perfectly.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 14:12, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

Hymn/Anthem

ГИМН is not a geographical or personal name or a part of the song; it's just an Anthem in Russian and official name of this song is as unimaginable as National Anthem of Russia (btw, Russian Federation and Russia are synonyms according to 1993 Russian Constitution). It's just improper to transliterate the Russian word anthem then combine it with English name of the country and present the result as if it's some kind of original name. I'm moving the page according to Wikipedia:Naming conventions. DmitryKo 18:57, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

As far as Wikipedia conventions go, you are absulutely right. I just wanted to note that there is an English word "hymn" as well (so it's not merely a bad transliteration), but it is mostly used to described religious hymns. I do not know for sure if a national anthem can be called a "hymn", but I would not exclude this possibility. Perhaps a native English speaker could clarify it for us, because the anthems of some other countries/subdivisions are also titled "hymns", and should probably be moved as well.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus europeaus) 19:09, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

In my honest opinion, the word "hymn" works -- it does not necessarily infer a religious hymn, it can also be of the religious sort, as well. Honestly, I can't read Russian, but I do believe Hymn of the Russian Federation would work much better than "National Anthem of Russia." Has the Russian government said anything on this matter? No press reports or anything like that? Or perhaps a neutral: Anthem of the Russian Federation. Sounds a bit more prestigious that way, and yet you don't lose your, well, "meaning." -- Tlaktan 03:44, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

In Russian, the words "hymn" and "anthem" are not distinguished; both are translated as "гимн" (transliterated as "gimn", which sounds a lot like "hymn"). If you look at the definition of the word "hymn", however, you'll see that it has very little to do with national anthems—it is first and foremost used to describe hymns (and anthems) of religious nature.

"Anthem of Russian Federation" (as opposed to "National Anthem") may work fine (and, as a matter of fact, is a more exact translation of "Гимн Российской Федерации"), but I do not really see the benefit of using one variant over another. This is a national anthem, after all, so what would be the point of dropping the "national" part?—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 16:22, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

Aesthetic purposes, perhaps? --- Tlaktan 03:36, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

The best way to check is to see official law. I will try to check later today, but I have a final to worry about. Zscout370 (talk) 11:08, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

The official law says "Государственный гимн Российской Федерации" (I should know as I added the text of the law to Wikisource myself. This can be translated either as "State Anthem of the Russian Federation" or as "National Anthem of the Russian Federation". Taking the aesthetic purposes into consideration and blending them with the spirit of the original, "National Anthem" is the way to go.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 14:24, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

I think some people call it the Hymn of the RF because most people call the Soviet Anthem "Hymn of the Soviet Union." As mentioned earlier, Gimn sounds very close to hymn. However, we could keep Hymn of the RF as the "Unofficial title," which can be introduced later in the article. Zscout370 (talk) 14:58, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Considering what was said above about the word "hymn", I think "Hymn of the Soviet Union" sounds really unhealthy :) Anyway, it's your call. English is my second language, and yours first. If using the word "hymn" to describe "national anthem" sounds OK to you, so be it.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 15:21, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

While religious songs are called hymnals, but we sometimes call national anthems hymns, like the Olympic Hymn. For this article, gimn sounds very close to hymn, so we can move it to "Hymn of the Russian Federation." However, what we can mention that this article is the national anthem of Russia. The article about the USSR anthem also mentions "Hymn of the Soviet Union" as an alternate title. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 04:54, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I do hope that you know what you are talking about, but I am still not comfortable with calling a national anthem "hymn". The article on Olympic Hymn is, by the way, located at Olympic Anthem, although the article mentions that it is an "informal name". Hopefully, peer review will sort this out.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 03:54, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Same here. It can always be moved back, and I will not move it back here if consensus is against me. However, I do wish to note that American broadcastor NBC uses both Hymn and Anthem interchangably. This was brought up when Russian was "owning" everyone in the figure skating events. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 04:08, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

God save the queen?

I am aware that the melody to God Save the Queen was indeed used, however was the anthem simply transplanted from Britain in its entirety? 24.10.139.96 07:32, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

The music stayed the same, but the lyrics changed. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 04:26, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Except that it was "God Save the King" at the time. Queen Anne died in 1714, and the next Queen Regnant was Victoria who acceded in 1837. JackofOz 05:02, 14 May 2006 (UTC)