Talk:Edie Sedgwick

Copy Vio

A long article by Patrick J. Webster called "In The Factory: Dylan and Warhol's World" in the anthology "All Across The Telegraph: A Bob Dylan Handbook", edited by Michael Gray and Jon Bauldie (Sidgwick & Jackson, 1987), makes the case that the subject of Like A Rolling Stone was Warhol's actress Edie Sedgwick and the diplomat was Andy Warhol.

In his book "The Philosophy of Andy Warhol" (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1975) Warhol recalled people suggesting to him that the song included an attack on him:

"I'd get answers like "I hear he [Dylan] feels you destroyed Edie" or "Listen to Like A Rolling Stone - I think you're the diplomat on the chrome horse, man." I didn't know exactly what they meant by that - I never listened to the words of songs - but I got the tenor of what people were saying, that Dylan didn't like me, that he blamed me for Edie's drugs."

Whatever the truth of it, the song is a very good match for Edie's life up to then!

• Note: this article is mostly an exact copy of the Edie Sedgwick bio on the myspace.com fansite (http://groups.myspace.com/ediesedgwick/). However, looking at the edit history of this article shows it was built up over time in multiple edits, so I think that either the Myspace article is copied from wikipedia, or the same author wrote both. Therefore I have not tagged it as a copyvio, however, that remains a possibility. Thatcher131 20:22, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Bio style

The biography section is not written in the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia entry. Note particularly the first and second-to-last sentences. I've tagged it accordingly. Jonathan F 00:10, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

In response, I have removed what I have always felt was not appropriate for your article. De Forest 05:47, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Where does the "sexual abuse" statement come from? I would suspect that it is "hearsay" and not worthy of being in this article. (I removed it only to find someone put it right back.) If it came from Jean Stein, it should be considered suspect - her whole book was based on hearsay and memories. De Forest 05:39, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Factory Girl

The film "Factory Girl" has Edie saying that her great-great-great uncle was a signer of the Declaration of Independance. Perhaps Edie said that, but then she did not know her history: William Ellery was her 3rd-great grandfather; Robert Sedgwick, 8th child of Judge Theodore Sedgwick and Pamela (Dwight) Sedgwick married Ellizabeth Dana Ellery, daughter of William Ellery and Abigail (Shaw) Ellery; their daughter Henrietta Ellery Sedgwick married Henry Dwight Sedgwick II (her 1st cousin) the son of Henry Dwight Sedgwick (Robert Sedgwick's brother); they had a son named Henry Dwight Sedgwick III (the scholar and writer) who was Edie's grandfather. De Forest 03:35, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Other family history

Did you know that Edie Sedgwick could also claim to be a descendent of Col. Robert Gould Shaw, of "Glory" fame? Her father was the grandson of Susanna Shaw, Shaw's sister, and Robert Browne Minturn. That would make her Robert Gould Shaw's great niece and Susanna's great grand daughter. Talk about an amazing gene pool!

According to one source[1], her family background is even more rich: "She could trace her family history to the Mayflower and claimed a bank account overflowing with money made from her grandfather's invention of the elevator". I have no idea how reliable the source is, though. CrashRiley 17:40, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Edie's grandfather did not invent the elevator; her only relationship to the "elevator" was a distant ancestral cousin who had a plant up the Hudson that specialized in "dumb waiters" and also made elevators. Furthermore, Edie inherited a very small trust fund from her grandfather that never could have susidized her lavish lifestyle. She loved to play the "rich girl" act to the hilt, but she was never rich by any means. The family once bailed her out of her huge debt, and she did use up the small capital in her trust fund. "Factory Girl" wrongly perpetuates the myth that Edie was rich. User:De Forest/De Forest 04:00, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

The Family section is interesting but one-sided in its listing the successful family members, ignoring tragedies in the distant past and, surprisingly, tragedies in her immediate family. R Waldo WCU (talk) 05:56, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

NPOV tag

I'm wary of the neutrality of this article. The tone, amongst other things, is all over the place; other than the fact it's poorly cited, the section describing her years with Bob Dylan and Co. seems to delve into a long winded critique/rebuttal of the latest film portrayal of Ms. Sedgwick's life that doesn't belong here (at least in not such detail). Qjuad 02:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Photographs?

Could someone find photographs of Edie Sedgwick that are suitable for use here? There are a few here, but I don't know if they are public domaine or not: http://amanoutoftime.livejournal.com/600411.html?mode=reply

Google search images (but take care, search is by name only and is occasional trace of other individuals) https://www.google.com.au/search?q=edie+sedgwick&hl=en&tbo=d&rlz=1C1RNPN_enAU411AU411&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=5fLtUMi9KqOImQXX94HIBw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAA&biw=1024&bih=677 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laurencebeck (talk • contribs) 22:59, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Questionable line

"She first gained enormous popularity due to online communities such as [2], [3], among others." -- I moved this questionable line here because (A) It appears to be an ad, (B) There's no cite for this claim, (C) Sedgwick is not "enormously popular" now, and her level of popularity was probably about the same in the 1960's and 1970's. If you want to put this back in the article please provide reliable cites for this info. -- 201.51.231.176 07:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Filmography

I don't know how to format this, sorry. But many of the links under Filmography are false-- misdirected or just broken.

Major Edits

I changed a bit on the Edie Sedgwick article because it's directly copied & pasted from the warholstars.org bio page on Edie. It's a good page but, it's basically an opinion of Edie. Overall, this article seems a bit weird in it's styling.

I also changed the Filmography section because it didn't have a lot of the films Edie appeared in and the redirects weren't correct.

I'd edit/rewrite more but, I'm unsure how to properly credit sources and references. I tried to remain as neutral and factual as possible so, when I finally figure out how to credit sources, I hope to rewrite this page a bit more.

Pinkadelica 04:39, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Neutrality Dispute

I've noticed that this article has been in dispute since Feb of '07. If no one has a problem with it, I'd like to rewrite it. Most of it is copied straight from the Warholstars.org page so I think a complete rewrite is in order. I've got plenty of sources, so if no one objects, I'll rewrite this sometime in the next 30 days. Pinkadelica 06:19, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Just a quick check since there hasn't been any talk page activity in quite some time, is there still a POV concern with this article? Shell ^babelfish 23:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

In Popular Culture

I just did some pruning of the "In music" section, removing allusions made by non-notable musicians. It could probably use more pruning still, or, at the very least, a nice crop of references. All I did was Google the artists listed and, if I found no third-party mentions of them within the first several pages of hits, I deleted the corresponding allusion from the list. As stated in WP:IPC: "Exhaustive lists are discouraged, as are passing references to the article subject." Feel free to cross-check my edits, but please provide your rationale on this talk page if you're re-adding something to the list. --Fullobeans (talk) 06:40, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Not sure where to add this

Edie's in the musical based on Ultra Violet's auto biography. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.246.109.6 (talk) 00:27, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Factory Girl Movie

Are there any informed opinions from people who knew Warhol, Sedgewick and Dylan as to how accurate or inaccurate the movie "Factory Girl" is? I was hoping to find some opinions on the film because it seems to be more of a sharply biased condemnation of Andy Warhol than anything else. Was it a propaganda film made by the "I hate Andy Warhol fan club" or is it something we could reference with confidence in mixed conversation? Does information about the film belong in her biography or would it be best to put it on the page for "Factory Girl"? 98.211.129.152 (talk) 04:48, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

As long as Factory Girl is mentioned and linked to in this article (which it is), information about the film belongs in the article for the film. As for the film's accuracy, you could probably find some relatively informed opinions by following the links under "References" and "External links" over at that article. Bear in mind that any information you add to a Wikipedia article should have a footnote to a reliable source; see WP:V and WP:RS. --Fullobeans (talk) 15:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Edie Factory Girl, the book by David Dalton and Nat Finkelstein

David Dalton is a former assistant of Warhol. Books by Dalton before this one include A Year in the Life of Andy Warhol. The sources used in Edie Factory Girl are mainly former “Warholites” - Gerard Malanga, Billy Name, Ultra Violet, Bibbe Hansen, and others. (Finkelstein is credited as the book's photojournalist.)

A comparison of this book with the film that has an almost identical name is found in the article “Factory Girl.” The section points to “considerable” differences, deals with controversies, and contrasts the book, an account of the actress as part of the Factory set, with the film, a story about one character and her relationships with two others. R Waldo WCU (talk) 04:28, 15 March 2009 (UTC)68.84.216.26 (talk) 04:23, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Jesse de Forest

Jesse de Forest needs to have the accent over the last "e" in order for the article on Jesse to be brought up. Jay (talk) 17:56, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

 Done In the future, you can easily fix this yourself. Pinkadelica^♣ 16:14, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Recent edits

I recently added some new material to this article and subsequently began adding inline citations, mostly referencing Jean Stein's book on Edie. Unfortunately, for reasons I don't understand, the citations I added did not save to the page, so I will work on replacing these ASAP. More unfortunately, however, much of the material I added regarding Edie's early life and her years in New York were subsequently removed - twice - by another (unsigned) editor.

I object to this action and strongly dispute the reasons given by that person for the deletion of much of that material. i.e. that it was "...too trivial..." and that Edie is merely "... notable for her association with Warhol, not her brother's suicide...".

Like any biographical article on Wikipedia, I assume that the aim is to provide a comprehensive and reasonably authoritative overview of its subject. Whilst it is self-evident that Edie is best known for her meteoric career as a Warhol 'superstar', that observation does not of itself justify the exclusion/excision of other parts of her life story. I would argue that there is ample evidence from Stein's biography alone that Edie's dysfunctional upbringing forged the unique personality that made her so compelling to her peers, yet also left her effectively incapable of dealing with 'normal' life. Likewise, I believe that an exploration of the deeply troubled psychology of her immediate family -- especially her abusive father and her passive-aggressive, enabling mother -- helps to explain why apparently privileged, talented, beautiful young people like Edie and her brothers developed the self-destructive tendencies that led to their tragic and untimely deaths.

I intend to restore the material was removed, with appropriate citations. I would suggest that the proper course for anyone who has an issue with this would be to present their objections in a reasoned manner in *this* forum, rather than simply vandalising substantial contributions by another editor without prior consultation. Dunks (talk) 14:57, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Barbiturate level

".48mg%" makes no sense, neither medically, nor in layman's terms. Chemicals in the body are measured by micrograms (or milligrams) per liter of blood, or per unit of mass in tissue. This needs clarification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.23.6.71 (talk) 15:34, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Madonna

On the Deeper and Deeper page it says Madonna portrays Edie in the music video. Certainly this could be added to the list of portrayls.66.252.163.190 (talk) 06:02, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Early life rift requesting citation and/or additional information

The penultimate paragraph's final sentence in Edie Sedgwick#Family background and early life abruptly reveals:

"At this point there was apparently a serious rift between Edie's parents and her mother left the country with Edie, intending to take her to stay with a noble family in Austria but this arrangement was terminated almost immediately and Edie and her mother reportedly returned to the United States within 48 hours."

This sentence appears on an island. The maddening obscurity employed here is striking given how drastic the measured response. The nature of the rift, name of the Austrian nobles willing on short notice to act as sudden guardian, or how the arrangement was so quickly scuppered is inexplicably neither explained nor sourced; at least one of these would improve the article for the curious reader as its vague referencing is, admittedly, a peculiarly frustrating read. --eYeDEF (talk) 22:22, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I have removed the sentence. If you find content that confuses you or doesn't make sense, feel free to edit or remove it yourself. Pinkadelica^♣ 22:35, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Although opaque, the added info is intriguing as it is informative and deserves to be left in, as such in undid your edit. Was hoping someone more familiar might give at least extemporaneous explanation. Should this not happen, I will follow up and research a proper reference as my time permits.--Ydef (talk) 23:26, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I actually am familiar with the subject which is why I removed the sentence. Being familiar with the subject and the book from which this particular content was taken from, I can assure that the way it is presented is how it is presented in the book - that Edie went to Austria with her mother to stay with "a noble family from Vienna" and that there was "a big blow up" between Edie and her father shortly after they arrived. In short, not enough detail is given in the source to flesh it out. If I thought it a notable event or thought additional details would be helpful, I wouldn't have simply removed the sentence. Additionally, far too much trivial content from Edie: An American Biography is being repeated here so something has to give. This article should be a jumping-off point about the subject, not a recap of every anecdote told in Edie. If you would like to do additional research about this particular event in hopes of finding more details to help those curious readers out there, I wish you luck as there is a limited amount of information regarding Edie's life in print. Pinkadelica^♣ 00:34, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

The bridge between Edie's withdrawal from St. Timothy's School,1959, Maryland and the entry into Silver Hill Hospital, Connecticut, 1962, may not be noticed in a Wikipedia page but it is unsatisfyingly incomplete even so in Edie: An American Biography (Plimpton, Stein). The daughter's education needed to be completed (following St. Timothy's) and a decision was to place her in a European 'finishing school' - not in Switzerland as might be expected but in an equivalant form in Austria.

In Vienna with the family looming over Edie, in what is clearly a demonstration of the father's deranged bent upon his daughter, he threatened to separate from the family if Edie did not return to America. There is no explanation for that and as Pinkadelica^♣ says, "not enough information is given" in the Plimpton/Stein book. The mother was devastated and had to agree.

While Edie should have been out in the world relating to her own contemporaries in the real world and learning about it, how it worked, her father troweled her into an exclusive sanitarium.

From there to a State institution, Westchester County, NY and from there to Cambridge, Mass.

The Vienna bridge, however fleeting, accumulatively adds to the picture of this family. --Laurencebeck (talk) 10:28, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

1982 George Plimpton book, EDIE, should be used as definitive source

To solve the various complaints about neutrality and verifiability above, use the famous, and well written, EDIE, as definitive source for a rewrite. Written thirty years ago while all the eye witnesses were still alive, underwritten by George Plimpton, who was as familiar with Sedgwick's society world as he was with Warhol's scene, it can't be improved on in 2012. Profhum (talk) 05:56, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Edie is already being used as a source for the article because there aren't many reliable sources about Sedgwick's life. Also, the NPOV discussion took place in 2007. The article has since been rewritten. Pinkadelica^♣ 08:58, 7 November 2012 (UTC)