Talk:Animal Farm/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Under the header Napoleon - Jessie and Bluebell

It says that Napoleon took Jessie and Bluebell from their parents as puppies. But in fact they are the parents of the puppies he did take, which is actually mentioned later on in the article. This needs to be edited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.198.72.254 (talk) 13:01, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Mr. Frederick

I noticed, as another person has, that it doesn't state anywhere that Mr. Frederick is an allegory for Germany. Since he doesn't have a page of his own, it would make sense to add this to his description. I'm not allowed to edit the page, can someone do it for me? Thanks. 72.93.241.60 (talk) 21:54, 19 April 2010 (UTC) I should also say that Mollie represents the Russian aristocracy. 72.93.241.60 (talk) 22:02, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Do you have reliable sources for this information, or is it original research? Doniago (talk) 12:35, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Well a source for Mr. Frederick is here: Appreciating Animal Farm in the New Millenium, by John Rodden. I can't find a source for Mollie, so I'll let that go. 72.93.241.60 (talk) 23:32, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

He's a farmer with a German name who supposedly throws his dogs into furnaces and launches the second invasion of the farm... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.16.85.100 (talk) 00:17, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Manor Farm/The Manor Farm

Napoleon doesn't revert the farm back to it's old name (Manor Farm) but to "The Manor Farm". In the closing paragraphs of the book (emphasis added):

"Mr Pilkington had referred throughout to 'Animal Farm'. He could not of course know - for he, Napoleon, was only for the first time announcing it - that the name 'Animal Farm' had been abolished. Henceforward the farm was to be known as 'The Manor Farm' - which, he believed, was its correct and original name. (...) "Gentlemen, here is my toast: To the prosperity of The Manor Farm!"

I am going to be bold and change it. HylandPaddy (talk) 14:04, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Archiving

I've turned on automatic archiving of this talk page...people keep replying to very old conversations that the original authors are unlikely to be watching anymore. Let me know if anyone objects or if the settings should be changed. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:47, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

This Page is Truly Disgraceful

This page is the reason that teachers, scholars and many other detest Wikipedia. Whoever is in charge of editing this page must truly either not care for literature or is deliberately misinforming the readers of the significance of this literary work. There is virtually no description to the allegories (Germany, Poland, WWII etc.) that dominate this book, nor is there sufficient mention to the significance of the characters and events portrayed in this book. Whoever is in charge of this page, maybe you do not care for this book, but to mislead the less-than-educated masses that read this page is very wrong. SHAME ON YOU. Worst wiki page ever.

-Anonymous — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.152.79.118 (talk) 07:03, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Maybe you don't realise, but there is no single person 'in charge' of a page. If you believe this page is incorrect or misleading, then maybe YOU could try to remedy the situation. --15turnsm 23:19, 17 March 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 15turnsm (talk • contribs)

other things alluded to probably include the show trials, Bavarian Soviet Republic, Hungarian Soviet Republic Permanent Revolution versus Socialism In One Country, the 1933 famine in Ukraine, Hitler-Stalin Pact, collectivization and muzhik reponse - need to find good sources. Sayerslle (talk) 16:06, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree. In its enthusiasm to pin Orwell's allegory exclusively to a critique of Stalinist Russia, it makes some very crude statements. Try revising the page and see how far you get though! I think you'll find the orthodoxy police arrive very quickly! LaFolleCycliste 09:14, 28 October 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LaFolleCycliste (talk • contribs)

orwell wrote in a preface, 1947, for a Ukrainian edition 'for the last ten years i have been convinced that the destruction of the Soviet myth was essential if we wanted a revival of the socialist movement. On my return from Spain I thought of exposing the Soviet myth in a story that could be easily understood by almost anyone and which could be easily translated into other languages. pretty bloody crude statement - but there it is . and in a letter to gollancz , '- 'But I must tell you that it is - i think - completely unacceptable politically from your point of view (it is anti-Stalin) - ' etc etc, and AF attacks propaganda and power-worship generally i guess - what, according to you, is it really a critique of? the BBC? - like 1984- thats really a critique of the tyrannical BBC also??as you and the daily mail know. revise the page, with reliable sources, - make the article better - why not? its very vague to just say 'crude statemants blah blah' - which? - 'its enthusiasm to pin Orwell down' - oh yeah, pinning him down, with his own comments about the work - you want the freedom to improvise your own explanation for his words but with freedom to sidestep and ignore what he himself said? - like conservapedia? - etc etc Sayerslle (talk) 12:19, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

An writer's own interpretation of his work is certainly a pertinent thing to consider; but it will hardly be the last word on the matter for any significant literary work. Reception theory? Hermeneutics? I am planning an assault on the over-narrow interpretation of Orwell's great works, well-exemplified here, but it's not for wikipedia. In the meantime, yes, this page reads like a crass crammer. LaFolleCycliste 19:48, 16 November 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LaFolleCycliste (talk • contribs)

bit pompous. - if the over-narrow interpretation is criticised in RS why not add it? sounds like you can't be bothered to cast your pearls of wisdom before swine - its all talk, really, or OR - which is not allowed. Sayerslle (talk) 20:14, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

also , sorry to go on again but slagging people off as 'orthodoxy police' is a bit annoying really - if you think readers are being misled with a crass misrepresentation of the book then you have a moral duty imo to improve the page , not just appear, slag it off, and then bugger off again - its more like editors who add stuff, are like Boxer, on the farm, working on it, and then like the raven,yu show up and sermonise, oh its all pointless, theres Sugarcandy Mountain, thats the point, perfection, like the perfect prose that gets produced by reception theory and hermeneutics? -explaining the broad correct interpretation of the book, - and then flying off again, with all the ethereal wisdom locked away for the elect. thats how I see it. there is no 'orthodoxy police' - thats all flapdoodle and nonsense. Sayerslle (talk) 21:33, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 March 2012

Update the dead link under "References" labeled Moran, Daniel. Critical Essays – Animal Farm and the Russian Revolution. CliffsNotes. p. 39. Retrieved 31 August 2008.[dead link] to http://www.cliffsnotes.com/study_guide/literature/Animal-Farm.id-12.html Because the existing reference points to broken URL that was not redirected properly. Dreisch (talk) 13:59, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

 Done I used a slightly different link to get to the essay directly. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 01:38, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Animalism - small problem

Where is:

1. No animal shall sleep in a bed with sheets. 2. No animal shall drink alcohol to excess. 3. No animal shall kill any other animal without cause.

should be:

5. No animal shall sleep in a bed with sheets. 6. No animal shall drink alcohol to excess. 7. No animal shall kill any other animal without cause.

FernandoOliveiraMartins (talk) 15:06, 17 August 2012 (UTC)