Talk:Arain

BHUTTOS ARE FROM ARAB CONQUEST ORIGIN TOLD BY BENAZIR

here is the documentry in which benazir herself told abt his arab (arain) origin .the name of the dacomentry is 'daughter of power ' . listen wat muterma says her self and stop barking .—Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.120.250.72 (talk • contribs)

PROOF OF THAT BHUTTOS ARE ARAINS

PML-F leader says Musharraf will decide on grand anti-PPP alliance

By Qazi Asif

KARACHI: Despite their differences, Pir Pagaro of the Pakistan Muslim League-Functional (PML-F) has agreed to form an alliance with PML-Quaid President Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain, but only to join ranks against the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP).

Prior to PPP Chairwoman Benazir Bhutto’s return, Pagaro had stood firm on not forming any sort of alliance with Shujaat’s party. However, on Saturday, the 80-year-old politician declared an alliance against the PPP.

Musharraf to decide: “A decision on a grand alliance against the PPP will be taken by President General Pervez Musharraf,” Pagaro told reporters after a meeting with Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz and Shujaat at Kingri House, also attended by Sindh Chief Minister Arbab Ghulam Rahim and Sindh Governor Dr Ishratul Ibad. “(Musharraf) should learn a lesson from the past and select better comrades to contest against the PPP,” he added.

The PML-F said Shujaat was a “rough stone”, which would be “polished into a hero”.

PM Aziz said that Pagaro’s perceptions and predictions about the country’s future remained important. “This meeting with Pir Pagaro was very useful because Chaudhry Shujaat was also present,” the prime minister said. “We will jointly contest the elections.” Shujaat told reporters that even though he was the president of the PML-Q, he was also an “ordinary” worker. “The real leader of the PML is Pir Pagaro.”

“We will give the PPP a tough time in Punjab,” Shujaat said. “We will hold free and fair elections and the PPP will be washed out of the province,” he added.

Pagaro said he did not know who was involved in the October 18 bomb blasts in Bhutto’s rally.

When Aziz, Shujaat, Rahim and Ibad reached Kingri House at 3.30pm on Saturday, Pir Pagaro turned towards reporters and said, “Ab me ek shararat kar raha hoon [I’m about to pull a trick].” He then turned the mouth of a toy cannon on his table towards Chaudhry Shujaat, whereupon Shujaat replied, “Agar ye pyar say hay tau theek hay, aur mujhe khushi hay [if it is with love, then it’s alright and I’m happy about it].” Arbab Rahim then said, “Ab ye People’s Party ki taraf hona chahiyay (now the toy cannon should be pointed towards the PPP).”

Pir Pagaro said, “Zulfikar Ali Bhutto Arain hay, aur wo Punjab say hay (ZA Bhutto was from the Arain caste and that is from Punjab).”

Arbab Rahim replied, “Haan lekin, Chaudhry Jatt hain, or Araiyon se unki banti nahi (yes, but Chaudhry Shujaat is a Jatt and they never get along with Arains). These are the words of great spirtual leader of sindh that surely carries weight whereas ur knowledge is fake.I do not know who r u but i am sure abt u that u r the biggest bulshit out here . i think that ur not a pakistani or muslims . and i think that u hav never visit pakistan . pir pagara is even biggest name in sindh even then the bhuttos in sindh and is forefathers were famous for thier struggle against britishes ,if u hav any any approch or source to contact him .u can verify from them that bhuttos are arain or not , i hav given u the names of famous politicians of bhuttos family who r also relitives of zulafqar ali bhutto , Asadullah Bhutto (ameer of jamiat islami sindh and member of arain association karachi ), Tauqeera Fatima Bhutto sahiba (mna,ppp,nawabshah), Nadeem Iqbal Bhutto (mpa,ppp,karachi ), get the ph no of these persons from web site of provincial assemble of sindh and from national assemble of pak , they will tell u the complete history of bhuttos completely ,now i hav given u proof of that bhuttos are arains i hav verified from above all and from others , i hope that now u will not bark against wrong tree ,

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.103.90.199 (talk) 10:23, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

ARAIN IS A MIXED BODY OF VARIOUS LAND_OWNING/AGRICULTURAL CASTES

According to Brahmanical artificial caste system (Manusmriti), a high caste could degrade to lower status when it neglects certain prescribed codes of conducts or else it takes to the occupations of a lower classes/varnas. There are numerous ancient and comparatively recent instances in Hindu society where a Kshatriya tribe as whole became Vaishya or Sudra when it annoyed the priestly class of the Hindu society or else adopted the profession not compatible with its own prescribed status on account of the misfortune days during its existence. Thus, Manusmriti (Hindu Law book X.43-44) says that the Kshatriya tribes of the Sakas, Kambojas, Yavanas, Pahlavas, Paradas etc were originally noble Ksatriyas but became degraded due to trespassing brahmanical social/ritual codes or else due to adoptions of occupation of the Vaishyas/Sudras. That the Kamboj/Jats (Sakas) etc who are numerously attested as Kshatriyas of highest order in Panini’s Ashtadhyayi (4.1.168-75), Mahabharata, Kautiliya’s Arthashastra, Harivamsa and numerous Puranas of the Hindus culture when they combined the profession of Ksatryas with agriculture/cattle culture/trade around the time of king Chandragupta Maurya, they lost their original Ksatriya status and became degraded Ksatriyas, Vaishuyas or Sudras etc. It is remarkable that Hindu text "Harivamsa" attests the Sakas, Kambojas, Yahanas, Pahlavas, Paradas as Kshatriya-Pungava i.e the foremost among the Kshatriyas.

COMMENT: We are informed by numerous ancient Sanskrit texts like Ashtadhyayi of Panini (Ashtadhyayi IV.1.168-175); Manusmriti( X.43-44);, Mahabharata (02.5.18-19; Mahabharata 13.33.20-21. Cf also: Mahabharata 13.35.17-18); Kautiliya’s Arthashastra (11.1.1-4); Harivamsa (Harivamsa, 14.17.); Vayu Purana (88.127-43); Brahmanda Purana (3.41.36) and several other ancient authorites that the ancestors of the modern Kambojs/Kambohs, Jats in ancient times, were established in the Kshatriya-Dharama as a warriors and a rulers (See: Foreign Elements in Ancient Indian Society, 2nd Century BC to 7th Century AD, 1978, p 125, Uma Prasad Thapliyal - India Civilization; See also: Sabha Parava, Udyoga Parva, Bhishma Parva, Drona Parva, Karna Parva, Shalya Parva sections of the Mahabharata). Their rulers have been styled Rajaniyas as well as Kshatriyas in the ancient texts. While the term Rajput is only a recent phenomenon and became popular only after 9th century AD, the Kshatriya designation on the other hand goes deep into remote antiquity and the ancestors of the Kambojs/Kambohs and Jats were undoubtedly included in the privileged Kshatriya list as attested by afore-said ancient references. And notably as A. A. Macdonnel and A. B. Keith have also observed: "the (ancient) term Kshatriya retains a shade of superiority over Rajput" (Vedic Index, II, p 218, Arthur Anthony Macdonell, Arthur Berriedale Keith; Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province‎, Vol III, 1882, p 272, fn 2, H. A. Rose, Denzil Ibbestson, Sir Edward Maclagan).

The process of degradation still continues impartibly. i will add to it that the fact physical features of arains dont match wid locals of subcontinent it is pertinent that arain can be anyone but not the locals of subcontinent

To the anonymous authors

I have to thank the anonymous authors who keep reverting the articles back to the referenced version despite persistent vandalisms by certain other authors. For the latter, the following applies as much now as it did when it was originally posted:

Sub castes

It has been mentioned that Mian, Mehar and Chaudary are sub-castes. Howeverm at least Mian and Chaudary are title. I know a few subcastes becuase of my relation. One is Gallar/Gallariye (My father side) and another is Bugay (My mother side). I also know there is another sub-caste Gallan. I try to find some references to them before putting it here. f anyone else has any information in this regard then it will be useful to have a subsection on subcastes..

There is also a group called Baghpurra Arain. I am not sure if they are to be considered as subcastes or a seprate group.

Yes I confirm that Gallan is a 'gote' of arain family as told by my father Chaudry Rahmat Ali who was arain from Chak No. 257 G.B. Toba Tek Singh. (from Lt. Col (Retd) Javaid Iqbal Zahid). Originally Arains came from Ariha a twon near Jeruslem in Palastine where they were farming but originally settled after Muslim coquest of Syria. A group of approximately 5000 soldiers from Ariha and suuroundings were gathered together to join Mohammad Bin Qasim for expedition to India. Arains settled in Indian Punjab for farming and agriculture. (reference: book "Tarikh-e- Araian" in Urdu)

Sana Nawaz (Lollywood Actress)

I added Sana Nawaz (Lollywood Actress) in famous people category. I have mentioned the published reference for that. In that article, her father’s full name includes the word Arain, which obviously stands for his cast. Her father full name is Malik Mohammad Nawaz Arain. Malik is also a caste but here it is used as title e.g. like Chaudhry. Arain is not used as a title by anyone other than an arain. SAna Nawazz i love u If anyone has a reference that rejects the referenced article's claim about Sana being an Arain then write the new reference here in the discussion, before removing the entry.

Market gardening - Academic reference

"Arains, traditionally a small landowning and market gardening group with a reputation for hard work and entrepreneurship..." (Taken from Knowing Me, Knowing You: Social Networks in the surgical instrument cluster of Sialkot, Pakistan by Khalid Nadvi. See: http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:RBP6xJvtF8UJ:www.ids.ac.uk/ids/bookshop/dp/Dp364.pdf+arains+market+gardening&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=uk)

And another thing

[18] Bhutta (Bhutto) clan of the Arains of Jalandhar Tehsil stated that they were descendants of Raja Bhutta, fifth in descent from Raja Karan, and were settled originally in Uch (Refs: North Indian Notes and Queries, 1896, p 64; ˜The tribes and castes of the north-western provinces and Oudh in four..., 1999, p 206, William Crooke; North Indian Notes and Queries, 1896, p 64, Mythology, Hindu; Jalandhar Settlement Report, p 82, sqq ; Cf: ˜The œtribes and castes of the north-western provinces and Oudh…, 1999 edition, p 206, William Crooke; See also: North Indian Notes and Queries, 1896, p 64, Hindu Mythology; A Glossary of the Tribes & Castes of the Punjab & North-west Frontier Province, 1911, Vol II, p 15, H. A. Rose etc). The Buttas, along with Harrals, Punwars, Laks, as seen above are also the sections of Kharrals (Multan Gazetteer, 1902, p 138)

Tareekh-e-Arain

When were Tareekh-e-Arain and the other Urdu language genealogical texts mentioned in the article actually first published? I realise that, for example, Chaudry's version is cited as 1989 but I get the impression that this was a reprint and perhaps even a commentary. Who wrote originals, which a cursory look around the web suggests are several generations behind modern times? - Sitush (talk) 10:41, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Well Tareekh -e- Arainan's first addition was published in 1963. Fifth addition was published in 1989. If you could read Urdu and you are really intrested to know about the origin fo Arain then you should download this book from the web site of an organization "Anjuman -e- Arainan Sindh Pakistan http://www.arain.com.pk/downloads.asp — Preceding unsigned comment added by M.Albert3334 (talk • contribs) 02:54, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. We could amend the citations to include this information. However, althought I am aware of the general nature of Tareekhs, which exist for quite a few comunities, I am not sure that they constitute reliable sources. For starters, they are neither independent of the subject nor peer reviewed. It is also rare to find them cited in academic works.--2.219.218.79 (talk) 06:36, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 14 December 2012

First line under Origin where it says "their position in Punjabi society was inferior to the Jats," is basically a very racist and offensive remark for Arain community. The reference #3 given for that is incorrect and that book "History of Pakistan" does not say that anywhere. Please remove this part of the first line "and their position in Punjabi society was inferior to the Jats,". Thanks Farrukh Shakil (talk) 20:42, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

The cited source, written by a respected academic who specialises in matters relating to the Indian subcontinent, says on page 154 that "The highest caste was that of the Jats, who could be Hindus, Muslims or Sikhs. The Arains, who were exclusively Muslims, had a lower status." Consequently, I am refusing your edit request. Please note that Wikipedia is not censored - that you find the statement offensive is of no great significance when the source is reliable. - Sitush (talk) 20:53, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Recent reverts

I have yet again had to revert some IP changes to this article. The source cited is Christophe Jaffrelot, who is a respected political scientist & historian specialising in South Asian affairs. You cannot just change what he says because you feel like it, although it is perfectly ok for you to come up with some alternate source that says something different and can be juxtaposed.

With regard to the list of notables, please read User:Sitush/Common#Castelists. I note that one edit summary claims that there are loads of sources out there - so use them, please. - Sitush (talk) 04:21, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

So looks like this is going to hinge on how reliable this Jaffrelot is

Firstly he's the editor not author of a translated French-English book, the chapters themselves have various authors and looking at the limited google preview, it's clearly very poorly edited and there are already contradictions.

On pg154 Arain are quoted to be inferior to the Jatt but on pg154 they are apparantley "solid farming middle class" like Jatt??? So the author of this wikipedia edit was either a)was too lazy to read the next page b)has some motivation to establish inferiority of an econimically heterogenous caste like Arain.

In light of this, either a) the inferior to Jatt comment is removed as it's based on a dodgy, poorly edited source b) if we are going with the idea that is a credible source then the fact that Arain are considered middle class farmers also be included - but wait it would then contradict with fact that Arain are considered an "impure caste" - anyone else feel dizzy? Option A is best. If you want to slate Arain I could point the author to some lovely racist colonial literature.

Have a copy of this Jaffrelot book reserved at the library so I can see what the authors used as their references (if any), and also how the origins of Pakistan fitted into 300 pages... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.137.86 (talk) 23:35, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

This is why it is dangerous to form judgements when you have a very limited GBooks view. None of the chapters appear to have a named author in their heading, nor in the TOC. The list of contributors includes various professors etc, but are not assigned particular roles. There is no contradiction between A being socially inferior or whatever to B and still being capable of description as a "solid farming middle class". There is also no contradiction between being considered an impure caste and "middle-class". Your attack on me is unjustified and, believe me, I've seen plenty of racist colonial literature and dealt with even more caste pov-pushers seeking to glorify their origins etc. I would appreciate an apology at least for your clear inability to research who it was that inserted the bits to which you refer. And until you find some alternate source, the content remains because it is reliably sourced. If you do not like it, well, that is just tough: find the alternate and we'll show both. - Sitush (talk) 23:54, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Pages 194-195 of this might provide some fruit. - Sitush (talk) 00:02, 4 January 2013 (UTC)