Talk:Shinnyo-en: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 15:36, 28 May 2013

Buddhism Unassessed

	This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Buddhism, an attempt to promote better coordination, content distribution, and cross-referencing between pages dealing with Buddhism. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page for more details on the projects.BuddhismWikipedia:WikiProject BuddhismTemplate:WikiProject BuddhismBuddhism
???	This article has not yet received a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

bakkudaijo > bakkudaiju, Mahaparanirvana > Mahaparinirvana

Tiny corrections; from bakkudaij"o" to bakkudaij"u", and Mahapar"a"nirvana sutra to Mahapar"i"nirvana sutra. These are more accurate than the previous description. I forgot to leave these explanation when I posted on the discussion page on the other day.

Suggestions for improvement; intention to modify article

The article about Shinnyo-en can be modified and improved because:

It is not verifiable
It is not neutral
It reveals too much detail about Shinnyo-en to the general public.
- Shinnyo-en is supposed to be esoteric.
- Go to your nearby Shinnyo-en temple and ask the jimu-kyoku (office-people): some Shinnyo-en publications are designed for the general public (example: the pamphlet "What is Shinnyo-en") and some publications should be given only to people who are connected (example: the Kangi-Seki).
- It is my understanding that, according to Shinnyo-en policy, the pamphlet "What is Shinnyo-en" is the limit of detail appropriate for the general public.

I intend to modify this article according to Wiki policy and Shinnyo-en policy.

--Danwri 20:58, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Article modified

Article modified per intention explained above. Will be doing ongoing work on this article to bring in additional material from "What is Shinnyo-En", and from other verifiable, neutral, and approved publications.

--Danwri 00:45, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Original research and bias added back with no discussion

Hirokayamasaki has been improving the page and refining the wording, and now it is well-written and almost free of grammar mistakes. Unfortunately, many paragraphs of un-verifiable and non-neutral material were added back, without a discussion on this "talk" page, and the article is again outside Wikipedia policy.

At the beginning of the non-neutral section, Hirokayamasaki added a disclaimer saying "the following was written by one follower ... questions should be asked" at Shinnyo-en, but Wikipedia articles are supposed to be encyclopedic in their entirety. Articles should not have a bias section, especially not one that comprises 95% of the article (30100 of the 31500 characters), even with a disclaimer.

Hirokayamasaki has put so much good effort into writing this, it would be a shame to waste -- best would be if he were to host the material on a separate web site and include a link to it in the article's "External Links". I have made this suggestion on Hirokayamasaki's Talk page.

--Danwri 04:55, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't agree it is bias and non-neutral in anyway, the section he added "The Three Treasures", is clearly quite factual on what the religion preaches. (i.e. The Shinnyo En Teaching teaches...) Similar to this is the "Beliefs" section of Christianity. One question we can ask however, is whether or not it is factually correct.

Which leads perfectly to another problem, verification. The material from which this section is based are Shinnyo-En publications, which I am sure are definitely the most reliable source.

The problem is that they are supposed to be confidential and only allowed to be read by the followers of this religion . The easy way to verify the section to be factually correct is to ask one of the followers, because theoretically they are the only ones who can get access to these publications. Another option, of course, is to get everyone in the world to connect themselves to this religion, and if that happens, no one will be excluded from the publications and there will obviously not be a problem. This article appears to be written like an advertisement. --DryBitterMelon 14:44, 27 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

anonymous This religion or cult is self proclaimed as an Esoteric one, supposedly based on the last(dying/resting) teaching of Buddha. I am familiar with it having attended many of its events in Japan. However, esoteric and objective don't mix well, much of the ritual, teaching and sacred events are made by the the leaders seemingly at their whim or at least in very ad hoc fashion. The leadership is steered as a dynastic family legacy; two Sisters daughters of the civilian/zaibatsu aircraft engineer, turned Shingon(Fire) priest founder and his wife as high priestesses. Another sister rejects and has no role in the new religion. Two other siblings that perished early on as children(one wonders about neglect?!), while the founder and his wife were promoting and perfecting the rites and narrative basis for the new religion are now deified in the teaching and exist as statues to be prayed to by followers.

One example of a lack of objectivity and followers zeal in purifying the narrative and obfuscating or scrubbing any perceived negative connotations from the public view; This is easily noted for example in the absence of and significant detail now to be found(even on the broader internet) about; the founder Ito, Shinjo's arrest in Japan and time in jail early on?! Noticed also by the speed at which followers come to edit and "undue" any objective additions to this article that are not sanctioned or already part of the public face the Cult propagates themselves(based are Shinnyo-En publications or Websites). These comments(naturally somewhat subjective, un-esoteric) won't last long I assure you, never the less; /*esoteric and objective don't mix well, Wiki entry predominantly maintained by cult followers*/

Please help improve it by rewriting promotional content from a neutral point of view and removing any inappropriate external links. (May 2013)

Requested move

I do not see any guideline on the use of "en" (苑) on WP:MOS-JA, but it seems far more natural to me to write it as either "Shinnyoen" (since there is no space or hyphen or the like in the Japanese), or more preferably as "Shinnyo-en", which is how it is represented in the URL of the official website and throughout the website itself. Any objections? LordAmeth (talk) 11:57, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No objections regarding changing its title from "Shinnyo En" to "Shinnyo-en." It's represented so on the printed material (public material, "What is Shinnyo-en?") as well.Justaped (talk) 23:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 40: / Line 40: @@
 Which leads perfectly to another problem, verification. The material from which this section is based are Shinnyo-En publications, which I am sure are definitely the most reliable source.
-The problem is that they are supposed to be confidential and only allowed to be read by the followers of this religion. The easy way to verify the section to be factually correct is to ask one of the followers, because theoretically they are the only ones who can get access to these publications. Another option, of course, is to get everyone in the world to connect themselves to this religion, and if that happens, no one will be excluded from the publications and there will obviously not be a problem.
+The problem is that they are supposed to be confidential and only allowed to be read by the followers of this religion . The easy way to verify the section to be factually correct is to ask one of the followers, because theoretically they are the only ones who can get access to these publications. Another option, of course, is to get everyone in the world to connect themselves to this religion, and if that happens, no one will be excluded from the publications and there will obviously not be a problem. This article appears to be written like an advertisement.
 --[[User:Drybittermelon|DryBitterMelon]] 14:44, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
+[[User: anonymous|anonymous]] This religion or cult is self proclaimed as an Esoteric one, supposedly based on the last(dying/resting) teaching of Buddha.  I am familiar with it having attended many of its events in Japan. However, esoteric and objective don't mix well, much of the ritual, teaching and sacred events are made by the the leaders seemingly at their whim or at least in very ad hoc fashion. The leadership is steered as a dynastic family legacy; two Sisters daughters of the civilian/zaibatsu aircraft engineer,  turned Shingon(Fire) priest founder and his wife as high priestesses. Another sister rejects and has no role in the new religion. Two other siblings that perished early on as children(one wonders about neglect?!), while the founder and his wife were promoting and perfecting the rites and narrative basis for the new religion are now deified in the teaching and exist as statues to be prayed to by followers.
+One example of a lack of objectivity and followers zeal in purifying the narrative and obfuscating or scrubbing any perceived negative connotations from the public view; This is easily noted for example in the absence of and significant detail now to be found(even on the broader internet) about;  the founder Ito, Shinjo's arrest in Japan and time in jail early on?!   Noticed also by the speed at which followers come to edit and "undue" any objective additions to this article that are not sanctioned or already part of the public face the Cult propagates themselves(based are Shinnyo-En publications or Websites). These comments(naturally somewhat subjective, un-esoteric) won't last long I assure you, never the less; /*esoteric and objective don't mix well, Wiki entry predominantly maintained by cult followers*/
+ Please help improve it by rewriting promotional content from a neutral point of view and removing any inappropriate external links. (May 2013)
 ==Requested move==