Talk:Bitumen

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Bitumen and asphalt are both naturally occuring minerals that are used in various combinations to create a very durable surface suitable for roads. The finished combination is often called tarmac which, strictly speaking, is incorrect. Tarmac is short for "tar-macadam", meaning a coating of tar (or bitumen) on the surface of a macadamised road - this being the near-universal modern method of road construction invented by John MacAdam near the end of the 18th Century. It involves laying a well-drained foundation of large stones, overlaid with crushed rock, which is bound with gravel, watered, and compacted to form a tough, durable roadway which can shed rainwater and stand up to heavy traffic. MacAdam built experimental roads on his private estate in Scotland, then became responsible for road building in the Bristol area, and was eventually made surveyor-general of roads in England. By the end of the 19th Century, his methods had been adopted all over the world. With the rise of the bicycle and the motor car came the final refinment: spreading a thin layer of asphalt over the surface of a macadised road to form "tar-macadam" or, as it is called today, "tarmac".

Re: "near-universal modern method of road construction" (see above). The "tar-macadam" method is rarely used today in the US; never on major highways and roads. US roads are "asphalt concrete" or "Portland cement concrete" laid over a base of compacted crushed rock. Also; bitumen and asphalt are different names for the same thing, and neither is a mineral. They are mixtures of hydrocarbon compounds. WCCasey (talk) 06:05, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

It seems that Karen's keyboard is running hot. I'll go find an area where I don't have to type so fast! Tannin

I'm looking at the tarmac wiki article, it says it's origin is 8th century Baghdad. Perhaps we need something mentioning the difference of asphalt and tarmac on the top half of the wiki. Because I confused the two before reading the above. Faro0485 (talk) 00:51, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm not all that proficient in English, and do not know what "roofing shingles" mean. Kdict offers the following explanations for 'shingles':

1) Eruptions along a nerve path often accompanied by severe neuralgia 2) A kind of herpes (Herpes zoster) which spreads half way around the body like a girdle, and is usually attended with violent neuralgic pain.

Niether of which seems appropriate. Is there a typo here, or do shingles mean tiles? Cederal

Yep: shingles is effectively another word for tiles: in Australia at least I'd use to mean small tiles, typically made of wood, but can't speak for other forms of english. --GPoss 09:37, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)

In the US, shingles (small tiles) made with asphalt combined with other materials are usually called "composition shingles" or, colloquially, "asphalt shingles". The same materials are available in roll form, up to 12 feet wide. "Roofing tiles" usually refers to a product traditionally made from stone or ceramic. Modern imitations of those materials are available in a variety of mineral (concrete, etc.), plastic, and fiberglass materials. WCCasey (talk) 02:03, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Suggest 1 possible wiki link and 1 possible backlink for Asphalt.

An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Asphalt article:

• Can link organic matter: ...al material produced by the [[destructive distillation]] of organic matter. Both tars and asphalts are classified as [[bitumen]]s, a ...

Additionally, there are some other articles which may be able to linked to this one (also known as "backlinks"):

• In Pat Metheny, can backlink ASPHALT: ...ida Greeting Song, Legend Of The Fountain, See Song * BLUE ASPHALT / PAT METHENY GROUP (Lobster CD003) Pat Metheny(g) Lyle May...

Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:30, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Ashphalt

The mis-spelling is not rare, as a Google search shows, and the mis-pronounciation is not rare either (I didn't know it was a mis-pronounciation). Brianjd 06:18, 2004 Dec 12 (UTC)

Brianjd, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here if you are going to use Google to back this up. There are 8,510 hits for ashphalt vs. 5,070,000 hits for asphalt, so that is a rate of about 1 misspelling in 1,000, which is definitely uncommon—moreover it seems like there is actually a band or song with the neologism "ashphalt" in it so not all of these are actually misspellings for asphalt. If every misspelling that occurred at a rate of 1 in 1000 or more was included in Wikipedia, then most of the entries in Wikipedia would need a section containing a litany of misspellings. I am going to take this back out. Please do not revert this unless you can provide a new justification as to why this is an exceptional enough misspelling to mention here. NTK 06:27, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

68.232.68.53 (talk) ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW from someone with dual citizenship.....

Misspelling and mispronunciation of "asphalt" seems to be limited to Canada, in my experience. Having grown up in the US (California), never in my life had I heard anything other than "asphalt", and had never seen it spelled any differently. I moved to Canada (Toronto) in my adult life, and suddenly heard it pronounced at "ashphalt". I asked my Canadian husband what the deal was....he claimed that he had heard it pronounced as "asphalt" when he was younger, but noticed the change over the years, which subsequently caused him to pronounce it "ashphalt". The misspelling of the word seemed to slowly develop over time, as a way to get the word's spelling to conform to it's new pronunciation that the Canadian's had adopted.

Now that this change has taken place, all Canadian's seem to have adopted the "ashphalt" version of the word, however I have seen it still being spelled both ways here. You would be hard pressed to find any professional roofer or driveway repaving company that doesn't pronounce it "ashphalt"! But - when I travel just 70 miles south into New York, the residents there all say and spell it as "asphalt"....confirming that it is NOT a northern thing, but exclusive to Canadians. I don't believe that going to Maine or North Dakota or Washington state would change these results....all U.S. states, be they Northern or Southern, still use "asphalt" in both pronunciation and spelling. It would be interesting to see a published paper on why, when, and how it changed over to include an extra "h" in the word in Canada, and why that habit didn't bleed over across the border into U.S. towns that are so close to the Canadian borders. If anyone knows of any such report or study or paper, please provide a link here. Until then, based on my having lived on both sides of the border, my experience tells me that this occurred sometime around the early 70's, and the other person who suggested that someone didn't appreciate the "sound" of saying "ass fault" might have started the trend that caught on and took off nationwide. 68.232.68.53 (talk) 18:16, 26 July 2010 (UTC)KLWD1963

The pronunciation "ash-phalt" (and to a much lesser extent the spelling) seems to be widely used in the British Commonwealth. It's mostly used by Canadians, Australians, and New Zealanders. Some British and many Irish seem to use it, and even a few people in the US border states. However, Canadian pronunciations and those in the northern border states have been changing in different directions in recent years, while Canadian spelling has been moving away from US spelling toward British spelling.RockyMtnGuy (talk) 05:09, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Mispronounciation

If find it hard to believe that asphalt is one of the most mispronounced words in the english language. Sources? I personally have never heard the pronounciation "ashfalt". Everyone I know says "asfalt". But maybe I live a sheltered life? :-) 137.222.40.132 13:35, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I've heard several Canadian and one least one Aussie engineer pronounce it "Ash-falt". I always figured it was a Commonwealth thing like "Aluminium". The fact that I've heard it from the lips of folks who deal with the stuff on a daily basis leads me to think of it as a regional pronounciation rather than a mis-pronounciation. I can't recall ever hearing that pronounciation from someone born and raised in the US. Toiyabe 19:43, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Canadian's in my experience typically pronounce it as ashfalt.--65.94.105.144 01:26, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

This is correct. You will be hard-pressed to find a Canadian who doesn't pronounce it as ashfalt or ashfault. However, in our own little corner of the world, ashfalt/ashfault is, indeed, the correct pronounciation, and you will be corrected if you don't start the word with ash. Snickerdo 05:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, as far as Canadians are concerned (being one myself), the proper pronunciation, given our own little dialect, is "ash-fault". However, the proper spelling does remain "asphalt", as far as technical fields are concerned at least (I'm currently in a chemical engineering program).

That's news to me. I'm Canadian, and I grew up calling it "ass-falt". I thought people who said it wrong were trying to avoid saying "ass". Are all of you in the Atlantic region perhaps? 207.189.230.42 (talk) 21:40, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I have also heard "ash-falt" many times in Ireland, especially from my father. He is a civil engineer, now retired. On searching in google for "Ireland Ashphalt" there were 34,800 hits. A lot less than the 1.280.000 hits for "Ireland Asphalt" but still enough to show that it is, or at least was for my father's generation, an acceptable pronunciation. The rate in this case is 1 in 50 and not 1 in 1000 as stated by NTK.—This unsigned comment was added by 83.40.166.254 (talk • contribs) .

Regarding British pronounciation, I've found between English, Scottish and Welsh-English speakers it is either "ass-felt" or "ass-fall-t". --Myfanwy 16:02, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

In UK construction, "ash-felt" is widely used. I have never heard "ass-falt" used by anyone in civil engineering

I work in asphaltene research and work with people from various parts of the world and I see no regional pattern with the mispronunciation. It may be that the mispronunciation is steming from the silent letter 'p' causing people to misread the word and say ashphalt instead of asphalt. It is my understanding that not reading words properly enables the human mind to read much faster than it otherwise could. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_reading) I don't understand why the Canadians are taking a stance on an understandable mispronunciation as if its part of their constitution. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anderthevulchar (talk • contribs) 16:19, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

History

It would be interesting to learn more about the history of the technology, and the reasons why it has changed. -- Beland 00:50, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

The article on German unification notes:

As German states ceased to be a military crossroads, however, the roads improved; the length of hard–surfaced roads in Prussia increased from 3,800 kilometers (2,361 mi) in 1816 to 16,600 kilometers (10,315 mi) in 1852, helped in part by the invention of asphalt, then called macadam.

Why isn't the invention of asphalt addressed here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.121.204.129 (talk) 18:27, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Seems to be some confusion there. Asphalt is a mineral, largely found in crude oil. No one "invented" it. Macadam is a road surface of crushed, compacted stones. Tarmacadam (or "tarmac") is macadam with tar (or coal tar) added as a binder. Asphalt pavement is an agregate (such as crushed stone) bound up in asphalt.

Macadam was introduced around 1820, fitting the timeline you give. Tarmac arose with cars. Asphalt pavement is a 1920s invention. - SummerPhD (talk) 18:48, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

The use of asphalt as a paving material was probably invented by the ancient Mesopotamians several thousand years ago. The Germans and English just improved on a very old idea.RockyMtnGuy (talk) 14:43, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Minor quibble re: "Asphalt is a mineral...". Minerals are inorganic compounds. Asphalt is a mixture of hydrocarbon compounds, which are organic. There is naturally occurring asphalt, which is not found "in crude oil". There is also refined asphalt which is the heaviest of the many products produced by refining crude petroleum. WCCasey (talk) 06:17, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Low Temperature Mixing Section

Anybody mind if I remove the "Low Temperature Mixing Section". It is huge, irrelevant and wholy copied from an external source. If anything it should be put into a separate article. However an external link should suffice. Toiyabe 17:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Merging with bitumen

The bitumen article is very similar to this one and it's not really necessary to have two separate articles. I think bitumen should be merged with this article, or asphalt be merged into bitumen and this article remains to distinguish the otheses of the term "asphalt" (there is only one use for the term "bitumen" so keeping the articles separate might reduce ambiguity). Suggestions? Eirinn 09:14, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree, bituminous concrete and asphalt are the same thing, so I think the asphalt article should be the "main", and the bitmun content added to the "main" article (like the alternatives section is good). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frmorrison (talk • contribs) 20:19, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, asphalt and bitumen should not be merged. Asphalt is used to describe a range of mixtures of bitumen with mineral components (sand, stone, etc.), ranging from the asphalt found in natural lakes (such a Trinidad) with less than 20% mineral components to porous asphalt with under 5% of bitumen. Bitumen is the 'pure' material giving asphalt it's visco-elastic properties. Finally, asphalt concrete is the full name for asphalt mixtures that have a concrete-like composion, giving it a relatively great resistance against deformation. Asphalt concrete is abundantly used as a road construction material. The new EU legislation on asphalt distinguishes seven types of asphalt mixtures, and one of these is asphalt concrete. However, other types of asphalt (e.g. stone mastic asphalt, porous asphalt and mastic) may be referred to as asphalt concrete in practice as well. And I must admit that I'm not familiar with the usage of 'asphalt concrete' outside Europe. 145.92.16.135 08:47, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I disagree that they should be merged, linking them together makes more sense. One usage of bitumen in the U.S.A. is as an adhesive for installing raised pavement markers on roadways. -- unsigned comment I don't feel like finding who did... Strawberry Island 18:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what bitumen is and if I type that into the search box I want to know exactly what it is... not be redirected to asphalt. Even it 95% of the bitumen article gets merged into the asphalt that is fine but leave something in the bitumen article to tell us what it is in straight terms. Strawberry Island 18:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's a good idea. Governments in Canada define bitumen as crude oil that will not flow toward a well under reservoir conditions, whereas asphalt is considered a refinery by-product used to pave roads. Since Canadian production of bitumen from the Athabasca oil sands is increasing rapidly and will soon constitute most of the oil produced in the country, the distinction is significant. Unbeknownst to most Americans, Canada is already the largest exporter of oil and refined products to the United States and the volumes are growing steadily. RockyMtnGuy (talk) 03:28, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Oppose merger Merger is not a good idea for reasons set forth by others above. If anything a further split may be needed to adequately cover the topic of "asphaltum" and natural deposits. Cewvero (talk) 00:36, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

• This merger tag should be removed since it has had eight months to gestate and has failed to rally support. The commentors are generally opposed to this merge. A merger should only be performed if there is a clear consensus to merge. Cewvero (talk) 18:50, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Bitumen should not be merged with Asphalt. Bitumen is used as an adhesive in roads such as Chip seal by laying it down and dispersing 1-3cm rocks over it. Asphalt is used in its self as a road with out mixing any other texture objects such as rocks. While they are related as petroleum products they can have very different uses in road applications. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.189.58.234 (talk) 22:06, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

"Asphalt" versus "Asphalt concrete"

The article states that the material often used in road construction"is usually called 'asphalt concrete' in North America or simply 'asphalt' elsewhere". I live in North America (Massachusetts), and I've never before heard the term "asphalt concrete". Once in a while I've heard the material called "bituminous concrete", but it's almost always "asphalt" in my experience. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dtgriscom (talk • contribs) 13:55, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, I live in Canada and never heard of asphalt contrete until I read this article. I've only ever heard the name "ash-fault" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.224.179.151 (talk) 22:33, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, maybe if you were talking to a roading engineer and spoke to that person about ACM you might get educated a little. ACM stands for asphaltic concrete matrix and it, to a road engineer, describes a whole range of mixtures that can be used for the water-proofing of the underlying matrix and, to some extent, the load-bearing surface that people drive their vehicles on. The matrix varies with the required load-bearing performance, the trafficing performance (wet or dry, hot of cold) and the wear resistance of the surface. Lin (talk) 10:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The article makes it sound like people who aren't road engineers call it 'asphalt concrete', which is a problem, because it clearly isn't the case. Nailedtooth (talk) 22:51, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I think we're dealing with different dialects of the English language. I don't recall hearing about asphalt concrete, and I don't recall meeting any roading engineers either. We call them highway design engineers and they call it asphalt (usually pronounced ash-fault).RockyMtnGuy (talk) 03:42, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I grew up in southern Missouri and currently live in Texas, I've never heard it called asphalt concrete either. And it's always said here as'as-fault'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.208.224.161 (talk) 19:59, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Asphalt concrete is not used in North Carolina or Virginia, where I grew up. The article also says that bitumen and asphalt are confused by people in North America -- the only confusion would be that people in North America would not know what bitumen meant if someone used it. Change this part of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.35.147.96 (talk) 06:41, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Shell advertising

The article inclusion on vegetable oil based asphalt is clearly Shell's "advertising" its products and shoud be removed as susch. 124.181.200.222 14:43, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Bitumen, not Asphalt

195.110.213.100 (talk) 15:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC) This article is definetely about Bitumen. Bitumen is the commonly used term for "Bitumen binder" The term "Asphalt" for the bitumen binder is used mostly by american-english speaking natives only and technically incorrect. Asphalt in technical terms means the bitumen binder mixed with gravel and brought to ground building roads - this is asphalt. A road is made of asphalt. Asphalt is made of gravel and bitumen binder. 195.110.213.100 (talk) 15:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

This gets into the usual problem on Wikipedia with the collision between different dialects of English, each nation appearing to believe that theirs is the only true version. The above definition appears to be British. The Canadian definition of bitumen in legal terms is "crude oil that will not flow toward a well under reservoir conditions". This is important, because Canadian has 85% of the world's reserves of bitumen defined according to the Canadian definition, and the total area of them exceeds the size of England. Asphalt is defined as a refinery byproduct used to pave roads, which is more or less the same as the American definition. Americans seem to use "asphalt" and "bitumen" more or less interchangeably. RockyMtnGuy (talk) 19:08, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I see three issues here; (1) should the articles be merged? (2) if so, what should the merged name be? (3) how should asphalt concrete be treated? Regarding (1); they are largely duplicative, I think, so merging seems warranted. (2) I don't have an opinion; redirects help readers looking for either term. (3) asphalt concrete should be treated in a separate section in the merged article. Asphalt (both usages), asphalt concrete, and bitumen are closely related and it is easier to address the confusion among the various terms in one article, not two. Walter Siegmund (talk) 16:31, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Walter is exactly right. I repeat what I said below: Bitumen and asphalt are not the same thing at all. Bitumen is a naturally occurring substance that can be found in the oil sands in Canada, and in carbonates in many parts of the world. Asphalt and tar are refined product -- they are a manufactured (not-natural) product. Peter McKenzie-Brown

As RockyMtnGuy notes, it's a situation where different dialects of English vary (MOS:ENGVAR). In U.S. English, asphalt (or sometimes liquid asphalt, asphalt binder, or asphalt cement) is used where other forms of English might use bitumen. In U.K. English, bitumen is typically used for asphalt cement regardless of source. Some languages use something closer to bitumen for asphalt cement (German for instance), others use something closer to asphalt (Greek for instance). Some industries or organizations may draw a strict delineation (bitumen = natural source; asphalt = refined source), but it's not evident that that's more than MOS:JARGON. I can speak to the U.S. road construction industry and while some people favor the use of bitumen for asphalt cement to minimize confusion with asphalt concrete, the crude bitumen found in oil sands has to be refined before it can used in an asphalt pavement mixture. Carter (talk) 22:27, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I am a US chemist and I was puzzled by being redirected to asphalt when I wanted to know the density (range, typical) of bitumen (which of course is nowhere to be found). In my 40+ years chemical industry experience, asphalt and bitumen were NEVER equivalent terms. People who claim otherwise need to cite an authoritative source. ASTM for instance. Asphalt is NOT bitumen. Bitumen is NOT asphalt. What nonsense. I allow I may be wrong, but unless an acceptable authority can be dug up, I maintain that it is an error to perpetuate the ignorance of mistakes in terminology, no matter how many people (with zero education to justify their opinion) hold an incorrect view. Should we merge the article on uterus into one on womb? How about heart with soul? My point is technical terms are categorically different than lay terms, and should be treated as such. Oh, by the way, I am unable to understand how a long discussion of history and terminology belongs in the section of the article titled "chemistry". This entire section needs a total rewrite (not that it contains much of substance). I am amused by the claims that modern analytical techniques are unable to identify the compounds that comprise bitumen. More nonsense from the 1990's or maybe even 1980's.173.189.78.18 (talk) 16:21, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Bitumen has been used in painting...

Since Bitumen was used in painting in the 19th century in such a way that it helped define a certain artistic technique, it should probably have it's own entry.Strangebright (talk) 19:14, 27 April 2008 (UTC)Strangebright

About that painting thing...

Here is a direct quote from Wikipedia's entry on the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood:

  This emphasis on brilliance of colour was in reaction to the excessive use of bitumen by  
  earlier British artists, such as Reynolds, David Wilkie and Benjamin Robert Haydon. 
  Bitumen produces unstable areas of muddy darkness, an effect that the Pre-Raphaelies   
  despised.

It sounds like this would distinguish it from asphalt per se, unless I'm missing something here.Strangebright (talk) 19:21, 27 April 2008 (UTC)Strangebright

The same?

I think not... They come from different sources and bitumen is added to asphalt to change the compound depending on its intended use. They are different in many ways so I don't think merging these topics would be appropriate.

Chris (talk) 19:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose merge. Not the same. Cewvero (talk) 14:25, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Why nor reliable Reference text not allowed?

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Why you delete my added information please? for article be reliable reference must be show.Liuliu45 (talk) 12:23, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I have read info on wikipedia guide line and i only add reference to what exists on the asphalt page already such as this reference link to the other companies also yes?[1]I also add reference link to Bitumen page which was for UNEP [1] which you remove, why you say this not reliable information link? Liuliu45 (talk) 12:36, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Because UNEP is reliable link reference i put link back ok? I appreciate very much you helping me Liuliu45 (talk) 12:42, 5 May 2008 (UTC) I also add good credible reference link from CSIRO to asphalt publication article that show info on this geo320 paving invention yes? [2]I thinking if asphalt article have info on this product same as shell or colas have same, then is ok to show reference yes? Liuliu45 (talk) 12:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)Liuliu45 (talk) 12:56, 5 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Liuliu45 (talk • contribs) I add one more reference ok, that shoe credible link on product showed on pitt & sherry road conference in Australia [3] Liuliu45 (talk) 13:06, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

This seems another sock of user:Ecopave. You are adding these links since the original documents are all blacklisted. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 14:13, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

You is paranoid sir! you is not well! Kimlee2 (talk) 04:30, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
It appear you is on a hunt yes because the References has been purposely sabotaged so one can not edit on article page!! Kimlee2 (talk) 04:46, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

If the Alternative article is to be credible, then good references must be showed this is Wikipedia own guideline yes. If you only show colas and shell this may be bias yes! I put good reference link to show who invent asphalt bitumen in first place please no remove or you malisiously sabotage article content yes! [This bio-bitumen GEO320 technology was first invented and pioneered by Ecopave Australia in the 1980's and 1990's[4]]. thanking you for help. Kimlee2 (talk) 04:58, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Another sock of Ecopave! Kimlee2, or whoever you are, please stop making new accounts, they will be reverted and blocked anyway. All the 'references' you add are to ecopave info (since you are not capable anymore to insert links to ecopave itself) and that is deemed promotional. Please choose one main account, request an unblock on that, and only use that account. And in the meantime, please stop adding these 'references', you may have noticed there are many users here that revert these edits anyway. We are not a promotional website, we are writing an encyclopedia. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 10:54, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Bioasphalt

Bioasphalt is asphalt from biopetroleum. --Mac (talk) 08:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Bioasphalt

Bioasphalt is asphalt from biopetroleum. --Mac (talk) 08:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmm I searched the web for it, trying to find about it as I never heard about Bioasphalt before, and I'm in Brazil, where biofuels is the bomb since the 80s. De only link in English I found was [5] the rest is this article, MAC's user page and a bunch of myspace pages. And I tried to find info in Portuguese to, to no avail. I'm leaning towards hoax, and I can't find any WP:RS. Samuel Sol (talk) 12:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

BioBitumen and Bioasphalt

Theres info on Bio-bitumen and Bio-asphalt on the web, see this link which I added into the Asphalt article page http://www.gtkp.com/uploads/public/documents/Knowledge/Eco-road%20Technologies%20Review-a.pdf 203.171.199.249 (talk) 10:19, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Ancient times?

What are the dates regarding ancient times of origins of asphalt methods? Faro0485 (talk) 00:53, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Wrong Lead Image

I hate to be a stickler, but the lead image for this article isn't a very good representation of asphalt. This coarser aggregate (often referred to as pug* by the industry) is generally used as a foundation for what most folks actually identify as asphalt.
Maybe someone could track down an image of more traditional asphalt for use here? If not, I'll be able to snap off a couple high quality pics of various materials within the week and offer them up for assessment.
Beyond that, the article appears to be coming together nicely. Maybe we could set some goals for it. Or at least establish a roadmap to good and featured article status.
--K10wnsta (talk) 20:05, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
_{*In the strictest technical sense, pug actually is an asphalt, as variably small amounts of bitumen are mixed with the aggregate to allow for shaping along the roadbed. Pavers may also add more bitumen to a pug and use it as a temporary finish on rural roads, allowing them to allocate costly, fine finish asphalt to more visible (sub)urban streets. While they save money in the short term, pug-finished roads degrade extremely fast (2 to 3 years) and can be hard on the tires of those who drive them regularly. On the flipside, when pavers return to apply proper asphalt after a year or two, problem areas in the road surface are more easily identifiable.}

I was going to say exactly the same thing about the first three images, thought I think it's much more misleading than you suggest, given that these depict what is described at the article on asphalt concrete and that the term asphalt as the title is the common name for exactly that. If we can't decide what "asphalt" means (per the discussions above, or if people keep posting the wrong images) then this needs to be a disambiguation page to these two topics under more precise names. DAVilla (talk) 01:42, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

We're probably never going to get everyone to agree on a definition. If you read through all the Talk above, you'll see what I mean. I, for one, maintain that 'asphalt' is the same as 'bitumen', whether natural or refined. Both terms refer to a pure petroleum product only, and do not include any added aggregate. What we Americans commonly call asphalt is really 'asphalt concrete'. That first photo looks like the type of asphalt concrete surface you might find on a very light-duty (usually private) road (or it may be a new layer applied over existing pavement - I can't tell for sure from the photo). I agree it's not a good lead image for an article on asphalt, but can't think of one I've seen that would be better. BTW - I've never heard the term 'pug' - is that British? WCCasey (talk) 06:48, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

After reading through the article again and making some edits to improve consistency and clarity, I have a suggestion that may help all of us. If we refrain from saying that asphalt is this or that, and say instead that 'the word is used to mean this or that, in this or that country', we can avoid a lot of disagreement. WCCasey (talk) 07:31, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Merge of Asphalt and bitumen

It seems necessary to suggest a merge. (Excluding the meaning of 'Asphalt' of Asphalt concrete_ it seems to me that the terms, and topics covered in this and the other article refer to the same thing - though the bitumen article claims they are different terms , then uses the term 'asphalt' extensively. I see no need to treat them differently, however if the intention is to use the article "bitumen" as referring only to naturally occuring free (not in crude oil) stuff, then I think that distinction should be made much clearer. I can't see the need for separate articles. An 'usage' section in a single article would be helpful.Imgaril (talk) 19:40, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Content forking is probably an essential read - the main issue being the duplication of material over the two pages - eg both have several sections that duplicate coverage. Thanks.Imgaril (talk) 20:00, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Merging has been suggested before (see above). I agree that asphalt and bitumen are synonyms. Confusion arises from differing local definitions. In California, where I live, asphalt means asphalt concrete, unless you're an architect or civil engineer. On the other hand, asphalt-based roofing and waterproofing products are referred to as bituminous. Go figure. WCCasey (talk) 20:55, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Merge

Done the merge - essentially all the content (excluding some images) from

• http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Bitumen&oldid=442519157

and

• http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Asphalt&oldid=445131330

has been included, with some rewriting.

material not included :

The Paving Grades of bitumen are 30/40, 60/70 and 80/100.<ref>http://www.bharatpetroleum.com/business/specialities_Bitumen.asp?from=bus</ref> The grade 80/100 is commonly used in India and Bangladesh but for lower temperatures other grades are preferable - reason - not sure if this is true for all countries. Please check.

I also merged the interwiki links - some are duplicated, others already on this page should actually be on the page Asphalt concrete - I've fixed a few but need someone else with universal language skills to do the rest..

It's likely that the lead section and others would benefit from being checked for grammar etc. Also if someone can proofread and check for duplication and other errors.

There's an opportunity to move the page to Bitumen, and have Asphalt as a disambiguation page for this page, and "Asphalt concrete". It's also possible that the primary page for "Asphalt" should be "Asphalt concrete" since it looks like most people in most countries understand it to be the road material. It may be worth looking at other synonyms for this - eg "Bitumous pitch" as redirects.

My expectation is that at minimum Asphalt should be a disambiguation page, and this page renamed Bitumen, or given another name, maybe Bitumen / Asphalt. Imgaril (talk) 14:17, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

also the only good article in its class de:Bitumen - might be a source of more info specifically the "classification" section, also details of hydrophobicity, chemical stability, also has some additional info on tests, uses. Some hints on small but real improvements that could be made to this article. It's worth noting that the english article has far more info, - with suitable work, not that hard to do, mostly just tidying I would expect to get a "good article" out of it, if anyone is interested in that sort of thing. (not me) It's already fairly well referenced, (though not complete), with little or no obviously dubious or rubbishy content. Well done and thanks to those who have worked on it. Imgaril (talk) 15:05, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Bitumen and asphalt are not the same thing at all. Bitumen is a naturally occurring substance that can be found in the oil sands in Canada, and in carbonates in many parts of the world. Asphalt and tar are refined product -- they are a manufactured (not-natural) product. 02:15, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Interwikis

How is possible that there are two interwikis in Arabic, Bulgarian, Polish and another languages??? Some interwikis are unnecessary and should be deleted. --Treisijs (talk) 17:27, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

I looked at these a few months ago - basically the other wikis have pages that need merging on the whole

For example the Ukrainian wiki has an article "bitumen" and "asphalt" which both cover natural and artificial - maybe someone could leave a note on those pages suggesting a merge .Imgaril (talk) 15:49, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Intewiki links 2

The interwikis should only contain links to articles about asphalt/bitumen not "asphalt concrete"

http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Asphalt&diff=486835102&oldid=486829798

• ar:أسفلت : "Asphalt is a petroleum material used as an adhesive between the building stones .."
• az:Asfalt : see trans. Describes both - roofing material is not asphalt concrete
• be-x-old:Асфальт : Desribes aphalt concrete as well as uses for bitumen and not asphalt concrete roofing, hydraulic and electrical material for the preparation of cements, adhesives, lacquers - describes both
• bg:Асфалт : Describes bitumen in first sentence - also notes dual use of work
• fa:آسفالت : Describes both, but mostly concrete - could be removed
• ko:아스팔트 콘트리트 : describes both,
• hi:अस्फाल्ट : describes pimarily concrete, with red links to bitumen - will remove
• hr:Asfalt : as above - will remove
• is:Malbik : as above - will remove
• hu:Aszfalt : as above - will remove
• nap:Asfardo : as above - will remove
• nn:Asfalt : as above - will remove
• ro:Asfalt : as above will remove

Oranjblud (talk) 15:34, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

OK, I see that the google-translation to english gives a different result than the swedish translation... I am satisfied with this result. Hubba (talk) 15:50, 11 April 2012 (UTC)