Talk:Zulu people

Bushmen

I'm not to confident to change anything on this page, but I would please ask some active editor of Wikipedia to change the term Bushmen from pages he/she encounters. The term has been banned from vocabulary, and it is now very despective. Thanks! Joanna —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.174.14.162 (talk) 09:37, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Have a look at the Bushmen article, which explains a bit about the terminology. The term is used perjoratively, but so is every other term. Bushmen seems to be what most call themselves when speaking collectively. Greenman (talk) 10:59, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I thought that San was the word used. Totorotroll (talk) 10:16, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

2004 discussion

Someone recently removed from the article the statement, "they moved into South Africa in the 1500s from the Congo region..." I have no idea of the facts, so I am not restoring it, but I strongly suggest that when removing a substantive statement, one should give references. -- Jmabel 21:07, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)

One should give references when adding such a substantative statement. I'm not sure what references you are asking for that would support the removal of such a statement. — Timwi 21:25, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Agreed that one should give references when adding (and so few do, and I've actually had people complain when I do!), but doesn't it concern you when people delete substance without even a comment? In this case, I have no idea of the facts, but I've run across a lot of cases of someone deleting stuff just because they found a fact uncongenial, haven't you? -- Jmabel 05:38, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Sorry folks - I removed it. The Bantu, as a language group, originated around Cameroon / Congo, and worked their way down Eastern Africa. The Bantu cover dozens of language groups. The Zulu were a small tribe of 1500 in South Africa at the end of the 1700s - to suggest they trekked down themselves from Congo is absurd. I will be working on the Bantu pages. I ripped a lot of stuff from the de wikipedia for Nguni, interesting, but quite German .. I was going to do the same for Bantu. But - thanks for pointing out the Wikiquette of noting it on the Talk page. Wizzy

Cheat

The food section was copied directly from another web site. Check it out its bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.240.128.129 (talk) 15:46, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Colors

I think that colors of infobox should be changed and i said this when Jmabel asked me about it:

Any particular reason you edited the infobox on Zulu into colors that do not match the standard Infobox for ethnic groups? Thought I'd check before reverting. -- Jmabel 17:19, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I wanted to make every part of table more noticeable. If it is in different color then it`s easier for human brain to read and understand whole article. Maybe the colors could be other than the one I chose but it is important that they are different.

                      User:Avala18:20, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Also color shange was supported by User:Wikiwizzy:

I think they look great. maybe Infobox for ethnic groups needs tarting up ? Wizzy

I can't speak for your brain, but mine doesn't find your color scheme easy to process at all. It was far too jumpy and drew attention to itself, rather than to the information presented. Mkweise 19:57, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The so-called "better" colors are ugly, distracting, and amateurish. Small blocks of color are not conducive to reading. -- Cyrius|&#9998 21:22, Apr 19, 2004 (UTC)

Agree with Cyrius, Jmabel and Mkweise. Too many colors make it difficult to read. Just reverted the Wikipedia:Infobox#Ethnic_groups -- chris_73 23:59, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Yes, the numerous colors were quite disconcerting and distracting. Tuf-Kat 03:55, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

Some more modern information

I did a bit of tweaking of the statement about Zulu people being basket weavers, bead makers and subsistence farmers. While this is true of a protion of the population, an awful lot of Zulus hold very urban jobs, and are very modernized.

Also added a bit more on Zulu music, and mentioned that Zulu people are the most numerous ethnic group in the country.

User:Kierano 14h36 , 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This is a good start! But a lot more modern information is needed. I've spent spent significant time in Zulu communities and the article's focus on the traditional lifestyle, while probably the most interesting aspect, is almost misleading. Most Zulus wear western clothes, carry cell phones, etc - living fairly modern lives by developing country standards. I'll see if I can dig up some references before making changes, but I encourage anyone with such information to add it. 72.193.186.112 (talk) 07:19, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

---

I've qualified the mention of some Zulu musicians going uncredited by white musicians who have used or covered their music. The background to the various cover versions of Mbube/Wimoweh/The Lion Sleeps Tonight is extremely complex. However, Pete Seeger, who did the original Western version (an instrumental, as part of The Weavers) was keen to have Solomon Linda credited and paid royalties, although he wasn't enitrely succesful. Some later groups and singers who covered it assumed it to be a traditional folk song in the public domain. There's a good article about the endless difficulties assosciated with the song linked on the Wimoweh page. --MockTurtle 17:49, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Possible Vandalism ?

I don't mean to trouble the author however it seems someone has vandalized this page. Would anyone know how to report this or would leaving a message on the Discussion Page be sufficient ? 64.12.116.136, 18:46, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• It's fixed. The person who did it was apparently at a middle school in Michigan. They have been warned that if this happens again we will have to cut off their editing privileges. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:20, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

Population

Do we have any citations on population numbers? -- Jmabel | Talk 19:57, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)

From [1] (which is based on the 2001 census): "Nearly a quarter of the population have isiZulu as their home language. Of the 10 677 305 isiZulu speakers, 7 624 284 live in KwaZulu-Natal, 1 902 025 in Gauteng, 822 934 in Mpumalanga, 138 091 in the Free State, and 92 288 in North West." Probably safe to assume that the number of Zulus more or less equals the number of Zulu speakers? [unsigned; User:Elf-friend Mar 4, 2005]

I would think that it is fair to presume that the number of Zulus should equal or exceed the number of Zulu-language speakers, unless someone can present evidence that any significan number of non-Zulus speak Zulu. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:51, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)

Well, probably quite a number of non-Zulus can speak isiZulu, but would in all likelihood not speak it as their home language. Elf-friend 00:00, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC) (Remembering to sign this time ... :-) )

Most of my friends who are not Zulu, but Pedi, Venda, Xhosa and Ndebele can speak isiZulu as a second language. Even friends from Zimbabwe who have never been to South Africa can speak isiZulu. --Jcw69 17:37, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Interesting. But on a census, would they describe themselves as Zulu speakers? I speak Spanish pretty well, but I'd certainly never describe myself to a census-taker as a Spanish-speaker. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:40, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

Please note that the census tallied people who speak it as their home language, not those who speak it as their second (or third or fourth or ...) language. I think it is very safe to assume that people who speak it as their home language are (with very few exceptions, such as multi-cultural marriages (to coin a phrase)) Zulus. Elf-friend 21:56, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Jmabel on this one. I do not think they would say they speak 'zulu'.

History

I've added a history section (long overdue, I think!) Most of the information comes from other pages on specific topics (I've added lots of cross-links). There are still a few gaps, however: I'm not too sure of the situation between the end of the Anglo-Zulu war, and the creation of Zululand. I'm also not too sure of the facts around Dingane's murder of Piet Retief and co (but someone should probably mention that, too). (User:Kierano 12 April 2005)

1. Right, I've got back to this article, and have begun filling out the history section (I believe there was a complaint about the incompleteness on the Wikiproject:Ethnic groups page). If anyone wants to lend a hand, the link at the bottom of the page to the history section on the official Zululand website provides a lot of fairly detailed source material (though probably shouldn't be taken to be definitive). -Kieran 09:02, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
   • Thanks, glad to see someone working on this on again. - Jmabel | Talk 23:57, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Bantu

I'm not sure you can say Zulu derives from Bantu. Firstly that makes Bantu sound like a language, and secondly Zulu is a Bantu language, it doesn't merely derive from one. Italian doesn't derive from Romance languages, it is one. Similarly with Bantu languages, no? Joziboy 28 Feb 2006, 14:38 UTC

I've reworded accordingly. - Jmabel | Talk 00:00, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

What it should state is that it is derived from a proto Bantu language, like all Germanic languages are derived from a proto germanic language and all Indo-European languages from proto indo-european--DSBennie (talk) 14:02, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

comment

(moved from article)

It is not clear why the Inkatha and the political violence, that took place in the provinces of KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng, should feature prominently in this discussion. Zulu, as in the case of German, French, Frisian and other languages, should be analysed and discussed in a very informative manner and such a discussion should not purport stereotypes and embedded racist attitudes that are often found in many African reading materials (developed mostly by Europeans). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.218.13.118 (talk • contribs)

Seems to me that the person who wrote it is confused between the Zulu language (which is not the subject of the article) and the Zulu people, who are. As such, their recent political history, such as Inkhata, is extremely pertinent to the article. Political violence was unfortunately an aspect of South Africa's recent past (and still is in some parts of KZN, although not nearly as bad as in the past) and to try to hide or deny it (as the Swiss (apparently?) user would apparently have us do) would amount to censorship of Wikipedia. I suggest the user who wrote that should examine his own preconceptions, which he used to interpret the article, and not necessarily read the preconceptions of others into it. Regards, Elf-friend 10:17, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

In fact, whoever this user is needs to do a bit of reading on how Wikipedia works, as (s)he has gone and copied and pasted the entire history section of a copyrighted tourism website into the article. I'll get onto removing it. (sigh) -Kieran 18:57, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Done. This really qualifies as vandalism. A few (important) paragraphs were completely removed from the text, and replaced with huge, out-of-place, blocks of coprighted content.

Also, as the author of the content, I agree with Elf-friend: The political violence that occurred in KZN is an unfortunate, but important part of the Zulu peoples', and this country's history. It's fairly well documented, too (see, for instance, the Human Rights Watch report from 1993). For that matter, Zulus were almost certainly the main victims of that violence in the province, and it almost certainly had a major influence on local politics. I'm not sure if I would call a short paragraph in several pages of history "featuring prominently", either. I do concede that there are other important aspects of Zulu history from the last two decades to include, such as the continuation and eventual official recognition of the Zulu monarchy and tribal system, or a mention of the University of Zululand. These will be covered, but for now, there is factual content on the political violence, and no justifiable reason to remove it. -Kieran 19:30, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I think there needs to be a seperation between the zulu language itself and the people who are of the Zulu tribe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zulu212 (talk • contribs) 00:54, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

having problem to understand one sentence in music section

Having problem to uderstand this in the Music section:

"isigubudu" (which can be translated as converging horns on a beast, with tips touching the animal, a spiralling inward that reflects inner feelings).

I can't translate it in the chinese Wiki.but I will keep this english text in chinese.

please explain abit more...so that I have more idea to put this in chinese.thank you.

--Hkchan123 14:12, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Here's a quote I found in an essay here:

The Zulu nation was forged through the ‘horns of the beast’ battle formation, which encircles the enemy. This is re-enacted in the Zulu wedding ceremony, where bride and groom’s family arrange themselves as two horns in a battle of song. The harmony of this song, isigubudu, describes the convergence of horns of the beast.

It might help with understanding this. I have a feeling the music section of the article needs a bit of a re-write, but I don't know enough about Zulu music to be able to do it without research. -Kieran 14:56, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of the music section, Little Bow Wow (presumably Lil Bow Wow, now Bow Wow) is almost certainly wrong: there is no discernible Zulu influence in their music. Bow Wow Wow, on the other hand, ripped off several Zulu jive songs on their first non-cassette release, See Jungle! See Jungle! Go Join Your Gang, Yeah. City All Over! Go Ape Crazy. The title is more or less a phonetic replication of the original Zulu lyrics of the song they rip off as "See Jungle". I haven't got the album handy, but I believe "Golly! Golly! Go Buddy!" is also a reworking of a Zulu pop song. Anyway, I will make this change, because I'm pretty certain that is who was meant. - Jmabel | Talk 20:48, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

political violence edit

I entered info about the third force because there is evidence that the government was instigating the violence.

I also changed the languages spoken in Gauteng to Zulu followed by Sesotho instead of English and Afrikaans (according to: http://www.info.gov.za/aboutsa/landpeople.htm#gt ). Wileywendy 21:39, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Zulu seperatism

I do not see any information on Zulu seperatism, spearheaded by the Inkatha Freedom Party in the negotiations before the 1994 general elections, and for which there probably still are some proponents. --Gemsbok1 21:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Please, feel more than free to add this; yes, I noticed the omission, too, but haven't been very involved in South African topics. Also, one might want to mention the so-called "Zulu Option" advocated by some defenders of apartheid: giving the Zulus superior status to other blacks, hoping to spli them off from the rest of the anti-apartheid movement. - Jmabel | Talk 03:24, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Fixing Dinuzulu's name link; "animism"; Zimbabwe

As part of some other editing, I have changed the spelling of Dinuzulu's name from the incorrect but common "Dinizulu." However, it appears that the main article on Dinuzulu uses the incorrect spelling, and I do not know how to change main titles & hence had to leave the links with the incorrect spelling. If someone can change the main name and link, or tell me how to do so at my talk page, that would be good. Likewise with Zibhephu -- the "U" at the beginning should be left off, or should be included with all personal names (UShaka, UMpande, UMangosuthu) etc. Not sure if this link may need revision. Also I corrected an error about when Dinuzulu was charged with treason, which was in connection with the 1906 Bhambhatha Rebellion, but to put in that link, I had to use the spelling "Bambatha" which is the title of that article -- recent literature treats that spelling as incorrect. ('Bh' is a breathed sound, 'b' is unbreathed in isiZulu). Again the other article title and the link need fixing.

I also corrected "imzi" (apparently a corruption of "imizi"=houses (s. "umuzi")) to "isizwe," since the reference was to "tribe or clan." The term tribe is problematic but for the present I have let it be -- but isizwe really means nation or people, not tribe. When the ANC called its armed wing Umkhonto we Sizwe, it was Spear of the Nation, not Spear of the Tribe. The word for "clan" is isibongo (pl. izibongo), which is closer to "surname" than to "tribe" in the sense meant in the article, since "tribes" were political chiefdoms composed of persons of many izibongo (necessarily so, because of clan exogamy), though usually identified by the isibongo of the chief.

Another thing I have left standing because I am not in a position to deal with the consequences for links right now is the term "animism" for Zulu traditional religion. However, that term pretty severely mischaracterizes Zulu traditional religion, which focuses on ancestor veneration. "Animism" is a form of religion that treats all objects and animals as spiritually alive (animated) and is primarily oriented to natural surroundings accordingly, which is not true of any of the indigenous religions of Bantu-language speaking peoples in southern Africa, though it might be more plausible for historical Bushman and Khoekhoe religions. It appears that there is a tendency across Wikipedia to call all African traditional religion "animist," which is wrong.

Finally, there are references to "Zulu" in Zimbabwe. The Ndebele people in Zimababwe are partly descended from Zulu people who fled Shaka under the leadership of Mzilikazi, but only partly. While siNdebele as a language is even closer to isiZulu than other mutually intelligible languages such as siSwati or isiXhosa, the Ndebele have a quite distinct political history and ethnic identity which is only a few years younger than Zulu as the focus of a major precolonial kingdom. I will try to come back to fix this if I can. I will also try to put in more references.

I apologize for the incomplete editing & will try to figure out how to change article titles and grasp the linking techniques & reference conventions better -- any guidance appreciated at my talk page.

Cclowe

(I cannot get the name link on the talk page to work or the tilde key-cap on my keyboard to produce a tilde in my browser)

Someone has now moved Dinizulu to Dinuzulu. On the rest of this, if you need technical help, feel free to hit me up on my user talk page, but content-wise it sounds like you are way beyond me on this topic. If you really cannot type tildes on your browser, please do note the "Symbols" section below the edit box when you edit, which should have a place to click to insert a tilde. - Jmabel | Talk 19:49, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Possible Uncertainty and Historical Incorrectness

There may be an incorrect statment on this subject under the fall of the Zulu Nation during the Anglo-Zulu war (which should really be British-Zulu war) concerning a defeat of the zulu impiis that attacked Rawkes Drift and the Welsh borderes Company there. the zulus did not suffer so much a sevear defeat in that the impii's general simply called off the attack when he decided to recodnise the welsh garison as "felow braves". so it was more a Zulu military blunder which gave enough of morale to amend that dropped by the loss of the rest of the garrisons Regiment the 24th foot. I wish that anyone with evidence to oppose this contact me on Willymus_2k6_williams@hotmail.com, via email. thank you. CJ.Williams—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 90.197.225.62 (talk) 19:07, 17 March 2007 (UTC).

vandalism?

are some of the headings a bit off? i'm no expert, but they seem a bit funny. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.170.124.162 (talk) 16:24, 23 March 2007 (UTC).

Another comment

(comments by 62.189.247.155 moved here from article)---Sluzzelin talk 14:14, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I must say I strongly disagree with the information you have provided.

Isaiah Shembe (not Shambe) started a church around 1916 that was based on the Christian knowledge he had and the revelation he believes he received from God. This church does not represent the beliefs of amaZulu. Shembe cannot be called a Zulu messiah as only amaZulu but also other tribes, for example amaXhosa, worship him.

The diviner, who mediates with amaDlozi is rarely ever a woman. This is the duty of the head of the family who is always a male figure. If the father in the family is dead, this head will then be one of his brothers or his eldest son. Not a woman.

AmaZulu do believe that some deaths are caused by natural disasters. That is why the ones who believe in ancestral worship will ask their ancestors to pray to God to forgive them for whatever sin they might have committed to bring such bad luck in the family.

This information is also widely available on the internet. You may also approach the South African consulate in your country.

Just a thought...

Wow! This truly is an awesome article! Great work, guys.

I do have 2 suggestions:

1. Could someone PLEASE get a decent picture instead of the stereotype that's currently at the top? Like a picture of your umZulu friend or, if you're truly desperate, a picture of Jacob Zuma or something like that. The current picture is rather unacceptable.
2. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to have this article at Zulu people with Zulu being a dab?

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 16:58, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

After some searching, I'm afraid to say that Jay-Zee seems to be the only well-known Zulu person we have a picture of at WP. I would far prefer a picture of King Zwelethini, or even Butelezi, but that seems to be it. I can find plenty of pictures of Zulu people in a rural context on Flickr, but I think the Zuma picture is most representative, so I'm going to add that for now. -142.103.207.10 (talk) 00:18, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree that this article needs a range of photographs, not just photos of Zulus in traditional dress. Totorotroll (talk) 10:17, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

"related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 17:23, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Ezeu's spelling fix

For some truly weird reason there are sites on the internet that give the names of the amaZulu kings containing unlikely spellings with "mbh"'s and "gh"'s -- this is plain wrong (I think it's some archaic orthography designed to show breathy voice).

Basically, since there was no written form of isiZulu when these people were around one can't really claim that it's incorrect to say that a proper name is misspelt. It's possible that the source for some of these names was old and no one bothered to change the spellings when they quoted it.

Thus, I propose moving all ancient amaZulu royalty names to titles using the standard orthography ("mbh" -> "mb" and "gh" -> "g"). Any objections?

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 00:22, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Political Violence

'Political Violence' Does not need six exclamation marks in one sentence... *edits out* Eugeniu B (talk) 16:17, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Not only that, but it talks about "AK-47s and Kalashnikovs". This is redundant, because "AK" stands for "Arms Kalashnikov"; the term "Kalashnikov" for a weapon usually refers to an AK-47. --24.46.164.83 (talk) 22:14, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

comment's on it :

1.cool! 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.230.16.227 (talk) 20:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Worst British Defeat Since WWII

Speaking about the Battle of Isandlwana, someone wrote that it was the worst defeat of the British until WWII. That can't be right! For instance, (and I'm sure there's more instances) the Battle of Gallipoli, during WWI, was far worse... The British lost over 200,000 men in that battle and were soundly defeated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.217.56.216 (talk) 12:14, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Worst British Defeat prior to WWI

Speaking about the Battle of Isandlwana, someone wrote that it was the worst defeat of the British until WWI. What is the "metric of badness" being used here? Just the number of casualties? Compare to battles during the Second Boer War during black week: Battle of Colenso, Battle of Stormberg. During the Battle of Colenso, for instance, the British lost 1,167 men and 10 field guns, to a smaller Boer force, which suffered almost no losses. --Tennenrishin (talk) 16:07, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Where did that picture go?

I liked it 99.242.17.36 (talk) 23:37, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Inkatha.jpg

The image File:Inkatha.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --07:04, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

FYI: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ndaba_kaMageba

Zulu king. Ikip (talk) 19:12, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Copyvio tags

http://www.everyculture.com/wc/Rwanda-to-Syria/Zulu.html does seem a nice resource.

Has there been stuff taken from there and put here ? Wizzy…☎ 15:32, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it looks a pretty clear copyright violation. The licence on that site has a very clear copyright, so the information should be removed or rewritten. Greenman (talk) 09:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: http://web.archive.org/web/20070110155812/http://www.everyculture.com/wc/Rwanda-to-Syria/Zulu.html http://web.archive.org/web/20010716205326/http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/aflang/zulu/culture.html http://web.archive.org/web/20070110155812/http://www.everyculture.com/wc/Rwanda-to-Syria/Zulu.html. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a license compatible with GFDL. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 18:36, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Zulu mining

Where were the Zulu iron mines? In what form did their iron mining processes take? Which members of Zulu society had to mine iron for there spears?

Semi-protection

I've requested semi-protection for this article due to the flood of vandalism. Greenman (talk) 23:08, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Zulu dwellings, architecture, discrimination

Would a section on traditional Zulu dwellings, the distinctive beehive huts and kraals, be out of place?

I think that would be fine.

I'm also thinking of editing the phrase: "Under apartheid, Zulu people were classed as third-class citizens and suffered from state-sanctioned discrimination." I get what is being said if we presume that the second-class citizens in between Zulus and the whites were 'Indian' / 'coloured' people. However, the phrase does give the impression that Zulus were discriminated against under apartheid, as Zulus specifically and not because they were part of the disenfranchised Black majority as a whole. Should the phrase not read : Under apartheid, Zulu people, as part of the Black majority of the population, were classed as third-class citizens and suffered from state-sanctioned discrimination. BlandBaroque (talk) 06:16, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

In their homeland, they were largely left alone under their king, as Buthelezi never acceded to homeland status. Wizzy…☎ 08:07, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

OK. But were Zulu people, whether living in former Zululand or living elsewhere in the country, discriminated against under apartheid specifically because of their Zulu ethnicity or their race ? I am suggesting that Zulu people attracted discrimination under apartheid because they, together with Xhosa and Sotho speakers, etc were Black and not per se because they were Zulu, hence the change I suggest to reflect this reality. BlandBaroque (talk) 18:49, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I did not live here then, but I think they were just 'black'. Wizzy…☎ 11:54, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Amandebele, Amashangane, AmaNgoni etc.

This article is potentially problematic from an anthropological point of view. Specifically the conflation of various Nguni groups, with very similar languages, with "Zuluness" in the 'modern Zulu population' section is indicative - the groups in question would not self identify as Zulu, hence the different names used to describe them. The best explanation of the nature of this problem can probably be seen in the section describing the founding of the Zulu clan - The history given is incomplete but the essence of the issue is that self identification as "Zulu" requires a historical relationship to the Zulu polity, ethnicity and politics cannot really be separated in this case. I believe that the best way to clarify the problem would be to name several of the clans conquered and incorporated into the Zulu Kingdom by Shaka etc. who would later self identify as Zulu, as compared with the history of breakaway impi's and clans etc. and those put to flight by the consolidation of that kingdom. The latter can be seen in the case of the Swazi polity or the Hlubi, the former in the form of the Ndebele kingdom in present day Zimbabwe and the Shangaan invasion of present day Mozambique.LNPS1 (talk) 15:02, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Please provide reliable sources for your point so that the article may be improved. HammerFilmFan (talk) 13:26, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Krypton ?

I'm not an expert on the Zulu people or anything so I'm not sure but, the section labeled Krypton is vandalism right? Lantern2814.1.