Talk:Lincoln, England

Cathedral Photos

Lincoln Cathedral appears in 6 photos on the page currently. I know it's a massive building and hard to avoid, but I think it might be a bit many. Aimaz (talk) 17:23, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Chlorination

I have added three sentences under the "20th century" section which document one of the first uses of chlorination to disinfect a water supply. I think that this is an important event and Lincoln should get the credit. I would be grateful for any comments or feedback. Drinkingwaterdoc (talk) 20:31, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Christmas Market & Twinning

Any thoughts on a Christmas Market section? Seems to me probably one of the most important dates on the calendar, and it's won international acclaim and awards. Also, don't remember seeing anything about Lincoln's twin town, Neustadt an der Weinstraße - which is referenced on both the German Lincoln page & the Neustadt page, I think it at least deserves a note and link. Any thoughts on those? streaky 21:21, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Etymology

Romano-British "Lindum" would not be "pool fort" (lin + dun). At that time Celtic still pronounced its case-ending vowels, and "pool fort" would be *"Lindodunum".

Not only that, the supposed element du meaning "dark" had the form dubo- during the period in question. The source given for these proposed "etymologies", roman-britain.org, is not an official or scholarly site of any kind: http://www.alexa.com/data/details/contact_info?url=roman-britain.org shows that it's run by one Mr. Kevan White of Rugeley, Staffordshire, an "enthusiast". It's so annoying when non-linguists make up theories about word and name origins, because they just figure "well, nobody really knows."

So I'm going to change the paragraph now. Hope no one minds. Listing the closest thing to a source I could find. -- Goueznou, 72.82.227.247 (talk) 22:15, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

• Evolution of placename from Roman to Old English.

I wasn't happy with the entry in the Roman History section, so I've edited and cited a web source of the Parker MS and hope it makes the evolution clearer. I also moved the paragraph into the AD 410-1066 section, which is a more appropriate place for it.Twistlethrop (talk) 16:24, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Population

im a little confused about the population of lincoln urban area or whatever this article calls it. by my calculations the population of north hykeham and lincoln alone is about 101,000 using the last census figures. thats before including any other "villages"... if we then count bracebridge heath too which is physically joined to lincoln we end up with wayyyy more than than the total, youd need to include waddington too and probably washinborough. clearly it needs to be revised upwards. that place alone has had 1,000 new homes in the past five years. i cant find the population count for there but in 1971 which is the most recent figure i can find it had 4,000.

i had access to the parish population records at work and lincoln and the adjoining villages adds up to around 130,000 people. almost exactly the same as grimsby and its surrounding area.

– Yes, I agree - the numbers don't seem right. Arguably the population of North Hykeham and Birchwood would easily reach that alone.. Any ideas where the numbers came from and what they are supposed to represent? --Streaky 22:39, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

- I edited it to reflect this and someone has reverted it back to what it is. Instead someone deletes and sticks "citation needed" on it, check the census, the local council, or the uk gov, mind you these are the same people who said the hasselhoff article needed a citation for his album being the most reviewed on amazon despite a link to it!

- Hi I put the citation tag in because I couldn't find any information on the net supporting this. It may be true but without data to underpin the statement of it being one of the fastest growing cities in England I don't think it should be included. I can find information showing that Lincolnshire is the 2nd fastest growing 'shire' county, but nothing specific to Lincoln city itself. If you know where this info can be found please amend and cite. Cheers. Nick Fraser 15:27, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

- Check the 2001 census info! We're not talking about Lincoln city itself and anyone who thinks it is specific to Lincoln city is being ignorant. Lincoln sprawls far outside of it's boundaries. We're talking about North Hykeham here. Its one of the fastest growing URBAN AREAS not cities. You can even find people citing populations in here and you've edited back to the obviously incorrect one. Example on population growth - "In 1991 the population of North Hykeham had grown to 10,506 (4,208 households) and is now in the region of 14,000."

- The data I used was from the 2001 census, although I've now spotted that there is an inconsistency between two different versions of the census report that are available online, one states 85595 and the other 85616. I chose the higher of the two figures. The NKDC site I referenced gives the population of North Hykeham as approx 11500, so the two figures add up to approximately 97000. Perhaps others can comment on contiguous areas (other than North Hykeham) that can reasonably be called part of Lincoln's wider urban area and these can be added to the total. Nick Fraser 12:50, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

- The population of Lincoln and the immediate surrounding area is around 130,000. This includes Lincoln, North Hykeham, Skellingthorpe, Nettleham, Sudbrooke, Cherry Willingham, Washingborough, Heighington, Branston, Bracebridge Heath and Waddington. I got this information from the Parish population records which I have access to at work.

- Thanks for the figures. I've included this info in the article, with a note for people to comment/remove it they think this info is extraneous to the main subject. Nick Fraser 23:50, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

- If you look at the lincolnshire.gov.uk website, there is a pdf file about the Eastern Growth Corridor. On this it states, "The city has a population of 85,595 (259,134 in the Greater Lincoln area which includes its principle commuter and satellite communities." This might be worth including on here.

- Thanks. Added that. Nick Fraser 13:55, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

- Further more using different stats from other councils (north hykeham district) they say 40,000 people living in the council area live on the "lincoln fringe" which is the conurbation around lincoln that is physically connected to central lincoln. north hykeham borders one side of lincoln only. "The population of the District is 100,500 (National Statistics mid year estimate 2004). There are two towns with approximately 14,500 people in Sleaford and 11,500 in North Hykeham. Almost 40% of North Kesteven's residents live in communities in the Lincoln "fringe", the area immediately surrounding Lincoln City"

- I've reverted the recent removal of the population data on Greater Lincoln. See the discussion above. Reporting only the 85000 official figure understates the true population of the city area (as most people perceive the geography extent of the city). Putting both the official figure and the estimated Greater Lincoln figure (based on council data) makes sense. Nick Fraser 21:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

You've added the text verbatim anyway, without quote marks, which is a copyvio/plagiarism. I've added back the real "Greater Lincoln" figure for the urban area from the ONS, and have kept this misnamed Lincoln Travel to Work Area figure but attributed it properly. Morwen - Talk 06:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

And frankly that leaflet is weak - it doesn't explain what area its covering other than in generalities. Does that figure 250,000 include Market Rasen or Newark-on-Trent? Who knows? Morwen - Talk 06:59, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

whilst the 250,000+ is definitely an overstatment the 101,000 is easily an understatement and very very clearly wrong. north hykeham today has about 14,000 people in it. the population there grows by 40% per decade. NKDC alone say that the lincoln fringe in their area, that is the part that is physically connected to lincoln, has a population of 18,000 and this doesnt include many of the villages - north hykeham and bracebridge heath alone top 18,000. the *real* figure for lincoln is probably between 130,000 and 140,000 when you look at areas north too. it should be added that the councils to the immediate south and north of lincoln are 2 of 3 fastest growing districts in the entire country and as a result an accurate population count is completely impossible. indeed you can find hansard debates on this with the govt using 2001 figures for spending although the population has increased since by over 5% in these two districts, almost exclusively around lincoln. the other thing this article should mention is expansion plans for lincoln. lincoln and its two neighbouring councils recently approved over 36,000 new homes. the city of lincoln alone has roughly 36,000 now, 36,000 also puts lincoln ahead of even places like milton keynes in the growth stakes. this 36,000 will be built by 2020 filling in all the gaps between places like lincoln and bracebridge heath. anyway, the solution for this is to make a list of all the places outside the city of lincoln that are physically connected to lincoln and then count up the population - so for example waddington, washingborough, birchwood and north hykeham all are. to start washingborough is 6444, birchwood is 14652, bracebridge heath is 4652, waddington is 5100, nettleham is 3609, cherry willingham is 3651, branston is 3900, skellingthorpe is 3430, doddington is 3251, north hykeham is 11000+, lincoln is 90,008. that gives us a total of 148,689 and doesnt include smaller places like canwick. its safe to say this 137,000 figure is the minimum. figures are all from - http://www.world-gazetteer.com/ --Gothicform 12:19, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

We should use sourced figures, not ones you've made up. Someone has now replaced the verifiable, sourced 101,000 figure with some random one with no source. Sigh. Morwen - Talk 14:22, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

in fact, you'd done something worse - you'd changed the figure whilst keeping the census citation, which does not support that figure at all. this is very bad. i've reinstated the cited figure, and modified the text to clarify. Morwen - Talk 14:24, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

really, i suggest you go to the uk census website then and find the population for birchwood, north hykeham, washingborough/heighinton and add it to your figures for lincoln. 4676 for waddington in 2001, north hykeham is 11538 in 2001 plus 85595 for lincoln... what about birchwood? lol... at least learn to count first but your lack of local knowlege is such that maybe you havent noticed, but everyone who lives in lincoln and knows the area is arguing against you. you'll find some rather interesting debates about this in hansard. the random one as you call it is infact ONS population estimates for all the places that are physically connected to lincoln for 2006. physical borders of areas are arbitarily defined, youre using the same argument as those people who say that manchester isnt the second (or third) largest city in the U.K because really it has only 450,000 people. the council can say what they like but the reality on the ground is that those places i listed are physically connected to lincoln, they are part of the conurbation and the north and south fringe are the fastest growing places in the entire country. youll find some interesting hansard debates on the local mps demolishing figures like the one youve used. --Gothicform 21:52, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Empowerment

I've created a stub article for Empowerment, and added a link to the 'see also' section of Lincoln - if anyone thinks it's sufficiently notable, can you figure out a way of incorporating it into the text of the article ... ? TheVenerableBede 12:47, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

82.21.204.72 04:48, 2 May 2007 (UTC)== Oliver Garbutt Peeke - Should he be listed as a "famous citizen" ? ==

This is the first time i have ever entered into a discussion on wikipedia however i stumbled upon the page about lincoln and i am perplexed at some of it's contents.

WHY is "Oliver Garbutt Peeke" listed as famous when he supposedly represents me and i have never even heard of him yet i've lived in lincoln all of my life.

It seems to me that this is political propaganda and possibly this person has listed himself on wikipedia.

I do not think being a local counsellor makes you "famous" nor does it warrant a mention and if it DOES warrant a mention then every counsellor in the country should be mentioned on the wiki page of the city they represent in.

Quite clearly "Oliver Garbutt Peeke" being mentioned in anyway on the page is ridiculous, counsellors are ten a penny and even of less value.

I hope that the intelligencia will see my point.

82.21.204.72 23:19, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Brayford Pool pic

Is the new image for the Brayford Pool really an improvement on the old one? The old one might not be ideal, as it has a rather distracting lens flare and the photographer seems to have used a ProMist filter for some reason, but I don't think that replacing it with a low-quality phone camera picture (which also has reflections from the window, parts of the window frame and a timestamp in the picture itself) is quite the thing to do here.--81.153.185.235 12:11, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm the one that swapped the photos round. To be honest, it was mainly because the original one looked rather gloomy to me. Also, I think the present one does show the context of the place a bit better (in that it's taken from higher up so you can see the surroundings). I'm not a photographer though so I didn't notice the various shortcomings of the photo, and also I don't think I realised that the original photo had such a high resolution. So swap things back if you think that's the way to go (I'm not bothered one way or the other).--A bit iffy 16:01, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Layout and infobox

Any chance of a regular editor of this page to bring Lincoln more inline with WP:UKCITIES??? Hope so, --Jza84 |  Talk  13:02, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Albert Pierrepoint should be added to the citizens section

Albert should get a mention as in my opinion he is the most famous person to of lived in lincoln.I'm unsure whether he was born in lincoln however but he hung some of the most important nazi war criminals of the last century.

82.23.16.70 (talk) 02:05, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

James Allen – Pop star/D list celebrity from 1990s ??

This guys name links to a disambiguation of about 20 people, none of which seem to be this "d list celebrity"

Whats the point in adding him to the page if he's not famous enough to have an article ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.23.16.70 (talk) 17:01, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Culture & Nightlife

Why no mention of this on the Lincoln page, and entertainment facilities? local cinema, ten-pin bowling, clubs & bars, eating areas?Mrimp (talk) 15:03, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Because there is no culture and very little nightlife. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.59.119.225 (talk) 09:48, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Famous citizens

I've just cleaned up the Famous citizens section, some names should never have been there. However two that I have left I'm still not sure should be in the list. These are:

• Alfred Tennyson – Poet Laureate of the United Kingdom after William Wordsworth and one of the most popular English poets, was born in Somersby.
• Jim Broadbent – Oscar-winning actor who was born in Wickenby in 1949.

Yes they are connected to Lincolnshire, but Lincoln? Remember, this article is about Lincoln. Really, it should only be those that were born in the city. Should a section be started with just those Famous People Born in Lincoln ? --BSTemple (talk) 21:07, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Do not think that we need a separate section, the section should be for those born and resident as per WP:UKCITIES. I should point out that the he entries in the section need references for each one and their connection to Lincoln. Keith D (talk) 21:50, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes I agree with you. I have just read WP:UKCITIES, which I admit I had not got around to reading before, well you do get lost reading one Wiki and moving onto another etc. --BSTemple (talk) 15:24, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Page move

Shouldn't Lincoln, a county town, and one of the most significant cities in British history, not direct straight to Lincoln? 78.146.239.211 (talk) 22:43, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Lincoln is a disambiguation page with links to every notable place with the name Lincoln for the benefit of readers. It's not necessarily about which town is more notable or significant, but to help readers find the page they want. Assuming July 2009 was an average month:

• Lincoln gets about 18,000 views a month
• Lincoln, Lincolnshire gets about 9,500 a month
• and Lincoln, Nebraska gets about 19,000 a month

And there are a lot more pages linked from the disambiguation page. This suggests to me that a large proportion of the people who type in Lincoln might not be searching for the town in England. Nev1 (talk) 22:54, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

You forgot the biggie...Abraham Lincoln is a core biography, in the Meta 1000, and gets |300,000 a month. That's why. Purplebackpack89 (talk) 00:50, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Huh, didn't think of that. I just assumed that people would type his whole name into the search box. Even without him, there's still a strong case for having Lincoln as a disambiguation page. Nev1 (talk) 00:54, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

And even with a fraction of him, there's an undeniable need for one. The drama of Lincoln, England vs. Honest Abe is playing out on the Lincoln talk page Purplebackpack89 (talk) 01:10, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting. I was unaware of that as although this is on my watchlist, Lincoln is not. I'll take a look tomorrow. I think the question is, how many people looking for the ex-president will just type in Lincoln? Nev1 (talk) 01:18, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Nowhere near all, but since it's viewed 20x as often as Lincoln, Lincolnshire, only a small fraction would put it at or near the top of all things named Lincoln. Some other famous people (Churchill, Reagan, Biden) actually have the last name a redirect to them, and then a link to the disam, but Lincoln doesn't necessary need that. Purplebackpack89 (talk) 01:33, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

No-one ever talks about Lincoln, Lincolnshire, as far as I know. There seems to be only one Lincoln in England, so Lincoln, England would be more appropriate title. Any views? Mhockey (talk) 19:27, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

It comes about by the way we dab places in UK we use the ceremonial county as the dab not the country unless there is more than 1 in a county then we dab by district. We should not move away from this for an individual article. Keith D (talk) 19:49, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

WP:NCGN says that places are often disambiguated by country, if that is sufficient. The specific guidance for England does not seem to take account of well-known places which have names unique in England - maybe Lincoln is the only one. Lincoln is a special case. We do not normally need to dab places which give their name to their county (I cannot find another example). In this case we do, for reasons discussed above. Applying the usual guidance results in an article name which is not a normal way of describing the place - it is not even a correct postal address. In this case, I think we should disambiguate in the way we disambiguate in normal speech. Mhockey (talk) 20:26, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Lincolnshire is redundant. Obviously, Lincoln is in its own shire, the county that was named for it. If we must use a qualifier, the page should be moved to Lincoln, England. Lachrie (talk) 22:48, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Speedy close, WP:POINT nomination. Nilfanion (talk) 12:35, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

---

Lincoln, Lincolnshire → Lincoln — As this is the English encyclopedia, we should have the English city as the prime topic. Homan's Copse (talk) 10:37, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose. There are other significant uses of "Lincoln", including Lincoln, Nebraska, so the current setup seems like the best option. PC78 (talk) 11:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose and of course this guy DC T•C 11:56, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
• Speedy close; nominator appears to be making WP:POINT-y nominations in protest of the request at Talk:Dover. Powers ^T 12:08, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move to Lincoln, England

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move per consensus which is consistent with policy and convention. Only objection soundly refuted per policy. Born2cycle (talk) 20:59, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

---

Lincoln, Lincolnshire → Lincoln, England — Lincolnshire provides no additional context on the location of Lincoln, whereas England does.--Nilfanion (talk) 21:48, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

See Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)/Archives/2010/October#England - county towns for previous discussion.--Nilfanion (talk) 21:49, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

• Support per previous discussion --Mhockey (talk) 22:14, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
• Support – makes sense because it is more likely that uninformed readers from outside the UK will have heard of England and less likely they will have heard of Lincolnshire. Green Giant (talk) 14:05, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose – for three reasons:
  1. There are two other entries on Wikpedia (relating to the County of Lincoln and the Parliamentary Constituency of Lincoln) that could equally be named 'Lincoln, England'; however there is only one Lincoln, Lincolnshire.
  2. May I also please raise the issue of consistency? In other words, should every city be followed by the name of a country?
  3. If it is desired to rename all cities in order to include the name of their country, shouldn't we be using the ISO country name (i.e. United Kingdom, not England)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by GrahamSmith (talk • contribs) 01:29, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

1. I cannot think of any context in which anyone would ever call the County of Lincoln (which is a redirect to Lincolnshire), or the parliamentary constituency, "Lincoln, England". The city of Lincoln is in the County of Lincoln, but you just do not say "Lincoln, County of Lincoln" in normal speech. As Nilfanion says, it is just not a helpful way of describing the city.

2. The consistency we are aiming for is to apply WP:COMMONNAME, which is why US cities mostly include the state (and never the country), per WP:NCGN#United States. There is discussion of this issue here, but there is not much support for renaming titles which do not need disambiguation. The worldwide guideline at WP:NCGN#Disambiguation says "Places are often disambiguated by the country in which they lie, if this is sufficient." The present UK convention is a departure from that guideline, and the proposal is consistent with it.

3. There is no desire to rename all cities to include the country name, but if we did, WP:COMMONNAME would override the ISO convention. We would normally say "London, England", "Perth, Scotland" or "Belfast, Northern Ireland", rather than use "United Kingdom". --Mhockey (talk) 10:18, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

• Support per nominator, and also because tautological article names sound silly. Sam Blacketer (talk) 18:39, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
• Support, more natural and more likely to be recognizable.--Kotniski (talk) 20:37, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

removed banner

I have removed a rather silly banner (External links) from the External Links section. If someone wants them organised differently, let him do so. Just scattering banners about is not helpful.--Robert EA Harvey (talk) 13:59, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Template:External Links has been reinstated as the links appear excessive and need to comply with Wikipedia policy and guideline — GrahamSmith (talk) 11:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Uphill Gardener's Club

Does such a thing really exist or is this just a gay joke? 195.212.29.92 (talk) 11:58, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

A trawl of the internet produced evidence that the other three named groups existed. Two had their own websites, and I added links to these. The Backgammon Club is referenced on a list of such clubs with a phone number, and so seems genuine.

However all the sites referencing the Gardener's Club seemed to be derived from this Wikipedia page, and therefore are not evidence. It appears to be a joke, or as Wikipedia describes it vandalism.

I have removed the reference and suggest it stays removed until someone provides verification of its existence.

I would be good if the claim that these groups provide social status was referenced since this claim may have just been a setting in which to introduce the "joke". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.51.185.238 (talk) 10:15, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Removed "Lincoln Uphill Gardeners Club" (again). Please do not add this back in without first discussing it here, as I cannot find any reference to its existence.—GrahamSmith (talk) 16:06, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

There certainly used to be a Lincoln uphill gardeners club.. I know this to be true as my father was a member. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.90.136 (talk) 16:21, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Brayford Pool and Cathedral pictures skewed

I thought it was me, but after checking closer I am sure that the two pictures "The Brayford Pool" and "The iconic view of Lincoln Cathedral" are skewed. The amount of skew is between 1 and 2 degrees clockwise and is just enough to be obvious and make the pictures look cheap and amateurish. Apologies to the photographers, whoever they are, but skewed is skewed. Although I can straighten them myself I am not sure about the copyright or other issues that might arise, or how to upload and notate straightened versions. Maybe somebody else can do this?Twistlethrop (talk) 13:37, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

You can always make derivatives of freely licensed images, this would include things like rotating. The simplest method of uploading the corrected version is to use derivativeFX, this will ensure that your new version follows copyright restrictions. Its best to upload as a new file and not overwrite the original, as rotating always loses the corners of the original.--Nilfanion (talk) 15:19, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Appraisal

This is a good read, this article, and I think the historical account particularly good with a strong narative form. But it, and most of the rest of the article, do not contain enough in-line references for the current style of Wikipedia.

I want to make this a B, with the intention of nominating for GA status, but given the large to-do list the Cities project have produced and the lack of references it can't be promoted as it stands.

Shame, there is a lot of hard work here and a sensible selection of data.--Robert EA Harvey (talk) 13:08, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Archiving?

Perhaps at least half of this Talk page could be archived? How does one do that?--Robert EA Harvey (talk) 13:10, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

See Help:Archiving a talk page Keith D (talk) 13:37, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Any photos wanted?

Wikimedia UK's annual conference is being held in Lincoln this year (8th June). While the charity doesn't control what goes on Wikipedia, if editors have requests for particular parts of the city centre, or particular buildings there will be a group of editors in Lincoln who may be able to help if you can point them in the right direction. If you have any ideas, drop a note on my talk page. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 09:06, 4 June 2013 (UTC)