Talk:Franek Kluski: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 21:23, 17 November 2013

Biography Start‑class

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

Paranormal Stub‑class

	This article falls under the scope of WikiProject Paranormal, which aims to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the paranormal and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the attached article, help with current tasks, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and discussions.ParanormalWikipedia:WikiProject ParanormalTemplate:WikiProject Paranormalparanormal
Stub	This article has been rated as Stub-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Death

in my reading i can not find any information surrounding Kluski's death, being in poland in 1943 i suspect it was somehow related to ww2 but i can not substantiate that, if any of you have information regarding the death of this magnificent man, please post it and please contact me about it on my talk page, thank you.--Tophatdan (talk) 07:23, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tone of article

I'm not sure where this bio is being sourced from, but the tone is inappropriate. §FreeRangeFrog 04:37, 24 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WP:RS

There are no independent objective sources for this article aside from various (cited in Polish) European occultist authors and psychical societies, so I summarized and trimmed to reflect the relative obscurity of the subject. - LuckyLouie (talk) 15:36, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

== Tone of article == occultists from 3 countries (england, poland and germany) cant be seen as independant sources? in any case i will be willing to provide a list of books concerning mr. Kluski's life and times if any of you wish to read in to the subject as far as i have, i believe the article should be restored in some length to its original text, and i propose that the 'tone' reflects the works research done by the 'occultists' from atleast 3 nations who studied him in his time.--Tophatdan (talk) 23:01, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Geley Fraud

There's an article in the SPR journal claiming that the psychical researcher Gustav Geley acted as Kluski's accomplice and helped him make the "materialization" molds. According to the article the paraffin molds were secretly prepared by Geley before the séance sittings. Its in the Journal of the Society for Psychical Research. (1994). Volumes 59-60. I don't have access to the paper. SPR journals are not reliable references so are not usually used on Wikipedia unless they can be clarified by other reliable references. Unfortunately I can't find any other mention of this, so it will be left off the article.

As for Geley, he was caught in fraud with the medium Eva Carrière. Geley had hidden photographs that revealed wires seen running from Carrière's head supporting fake ectoplasm. It's possible that Geley was involved in fraud with Kluski. Either way there was fraud involved and Kluski was not searched before his séances. The "materialization" hand molds are easily to duplicate by natural methods as magicians have revealed. Fodor Fan (talk) 20:18, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bowl of water

Some spiritualist websites seem to be claiming there was no bowl of water in the Kluski experiments. This is contradicted by references on the subject, for example Ivor Grattan-Guinness. (1982). Psychical Research: A Guide to Its History, Principles and Practices: In Celebration of 100 Years of the Society for Psychical Research. Aquarian Press. p. 65 writes "He sat in a darkened (but not dark) room at a table on which there was a bowl of molten paraffin wax and a bowl of water." Also D. Scott Rogo (a supporter of Kluski). in his book Mind and Motion: The Riddle of Psychokinesis. pp. 245-246 writes of a "bowl of hot paraffin" and "a bath of water."

In the book Clément Chéroux The Perfect Medium: Photography and the Occult it describes a bucket containing "melted paraffin floating on hot water" and mentions plaster was poured into the molds and then they were plunged into "boiling water" to remove the paraffin. It's clear then there were two buckets or bowls, one with paraffin and the other with water, but there seems to be contradictory statements if the bowl was filled with boiling or cold water.

Harry Price in his book Fifty Years of Psychical Research writes "a pail of hot parrifin wax and another filled with cold water are in readiness at his sittings, and the splashings in the pails can be distinctly heard." And he also writes "when these delicate moulds are filled with plaster-of-Paris (which is allowed to set), the wax is dissolved with boiling water and the resultant casts can be examined freely."

Because of these contradictions I have cited there that there were indeed two bowls (which all references agree with), but left out specific mention if the water was cold or hot. Fodor Fan (talk) 21:10, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 33: / Line 33: @@
 In the book Clément Chéroux ''The Perfect Medium: Photography and the Occult'' it describes a bucket containing "melted paraffin floating on hot water"  and mentions plaster was poured into the molds and then they were plunged into "boiling water" to remove the paraffin. It's clear then there were two buckets or bowls, one with paraffin and the other with water, but there seems to be contradictory statements if the bowl was filled with boiling or cold water.
-Harry Price in his book ''Fifty Years of Psychical Research'' writes "When these delicate moulds are filled with plaster-of-Paris (which is allowed to set), the wax is dissolved with boiling water and the resultant casts can be examined freely."
+Harry Price in his book ''Fifty Years of Psychical Research'' writes "a pail of hot parrifin wax and another filled with cold water are in readiness at his sittings, and the splashings in the pails can be distinctly heard." And he also writes "when these delicate moulds are filled with plaster-of-Paris (which is allowed to set), the wax is dissolved with boiling water and the resultant casts can be examined freely."
 Because of these contradictions I have cited there that there were indeed two bowls (which all references agree with), but left out specific mention if the water was cold or hot. [[User:Fodor Fan|Fodor Fan]] ([[User talk:Fodor Fan|talk]]) 21:10, 17 November 2013 (UTC)