Talk:Pleistocene Park

Wikipedia article traffic statistics: Pleistocene Park

Is this still going on?

I cannot find any recent (within the last year) article on Pleistocene Park. Is this still being created or managed? --Eraticus (talk) 03:51, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Oberond (talk) 14:26, 28 September 2010 (UTC)still going on. Last news - 22 September 2010 musk ox calves arrived from Wrangel island

Last edit on website now 1 May 2012. As explained in a youtube comments section: ″Well, what you expect. Slow internet connections (via sat), exuberant prices for everything, plus duties of the stuff (either they go to a nearest car dealer, which is c. 2000 km away, or ordering food for summer (c. 1200 km away [...])). Or find any up-to-date web site in 1000 km radius from Cherskiy. It is Siberia. I-phone is as good as paperweight here.″ (Eugene Potapov: Pleistocene Park. Video, 7:11 min., uploaded 21 October 2012. Accessed 23 April 2013.) --92.206.68.37 (talk) 08:33, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

The coordinates are wrong. They point to a place north of Chersky while the text says "south of Chersky".--SibFreak (talk) 09:42, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't see any coordinates at all now. Kortoso (talk) 01:00, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

They′re found in the top right hand corner of the article, below the search box. The two articles (″Chersky (settlement)″ and ″Pleistocene Park″) use different systems to show coordinates smaller than whole degrees, which leads to the impression that the P.P. coordinates point to a place north of the Chersky coordinates. The Chersky article uses the traditional minutes and seconds, while the Pleistocene Park article seems to use some sort of decimal system which I hadn't aware of until now. Clicking on the coordinates leads one to a GeoHack toolserver page where both systems are shown at the very top. Roberta jr. (talk) 17:30, 2 June 2013 (UTC) / 11:17, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Through usage of ′Infobox park′, this article now also displays the traditional minutes and seconds. Roberta jr. (talk) 16:02, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Animals without references

I have removed the following animals from the article as I could not find references linking them directly to Pleistocene Park. Please only (re)insert them in the article together with a reliable source. Roberta jr. (talk) 13:34, 10 May 2013 (UTC), last edit 20:38, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Animals considered or suggested for reintroduction:

Herbivores:

• Dziggetai or Mongolian wild ass (Equus hemionus hemionus): {Mentioned in Zimov (2005) w/out direct connection to Pleistocene Park.}
• Kiang (Equus kiang): Largest of the wild asses. Like the Yakutian horse, it grows a thick layer of fat in late summer and fall. {Listed in the Russian Wikipedia article on Pleistocene Park as being considered for reintroduction; no reference given.}
• Dzeren or Mongolian gazelle (Procapra gutturosa): {Listed in the Russian Wikipedia article on Pleistocene Park as being suitable for reintroduction; no reference given.}
• Argali (Ovis ammon) or urial (Ovis orientalis vignei): The argali is the largest of the wild sheep. The preferred habitat of both species are gently sloping grassy areas in upland regions, unlike the snow sheep, which is found in rockier terrain.

Carnivores:

• Snow leopard (Panthera uncia) ?: Prefers more open habitats than the Amur leopard.

• Reintroduction of Spotted Hyena and Amur Leopard to Pleistocene Park mentioned in previous articles and this source . Both were previous additions of the page. Amur leopards share the same habitat as Amur (Siberian) Tigers (forests in the Primorye region), both are critically endangered, and at the start of the article, were both reputed to live in historic times in northern Siberia. Both would hunt in the shrubs and forests on the edges of the grasslands, though the Amur Leopard can adapt to almost any habitat that provides it with sufficient food and cover . Spotted Hyenas would be introduced as an important primary predator and robust scavenger on the plains. Its largest subspecies (The Cave Hyena) range extended to Eastern Siberia ´, and todays modern Spotted Hyena would serve as a good proxy. Amur leopards, Siberian Tigers and Spotted Hyena all lived in conditions similar to Pleistocene Park during the Ice Age.

Animals which could be placed in the park in the event of being ′resurrected′ from extinction:

• Woolly rhinoceros (Coelodonta antiquitatis) (?): Woolly rhinoceros findings are not as common as mammoths. Only one fully preserved specimen (save for the skin and hooves) was retrieved from a tar pit in 1929 in Starunia, Ukraine (at the time part of Poland). If DNA could be extracted, Sumatran rhinoceros females might be used in the same way elephants are in the mammoth project. {Listed in the Russian Wikipedia article on Pleistocene Park as being suitable for reintroduction; given reference on the cloning of mammoths mentions neither rhinos nor Pleistocene Park.}
• Cave hyena (Crocuta crocuta spelaea): Studies in DNA show that it is a sub species of the spotted hyena (Crocuta crocuta crocuta), and one could possibly be resurrected in the future. {Listed in the Russian Wikipedia article on Pleistocene Park as being suitable for reintroduction; no reference given.}
• Irish elk or giant deer (Megaloceros giganteus): Despite its appelation neither a moose nor a wapiti. Traces in DNA show its closest relative to be the fallow deer (Genus Dama). Smaller than moose, but with larger antlers.
• Aurochs (Bos primigenius): Is being bred back at the moment. {Listed in the Russian Wikipedia article on Pleistocene Park as being suitable for reintroduction; no reference given. Unlikely, as not cold-tolerant enough. (But see below, section Yak / Aurochs)}

Animals which could be made suitable for the (sub)arctic climate through interbreeding:

• Northern aurochs (Bos primigenius ssp.): The extinct aurochs is at this point being rebred by the TaurOs Project. With an introgression of either yak or Yakutian cattle genes the ‘tauros’ could be adapted to the climate and habitat of the far north (see below, section Yak / Aurochs), which would bring the number of bovines suited for the tundra-steppe up to three.
• Lowland yak (Bos mutus ssp.): The wild yak is generally able to cope with the climate of the far north, but may have trouble with temperatures in the summer and possibly with the low altitudes. These problems could be avoided with an introgression of bison genes. Domestic yak could be used for the basic breeding program (as size would be supplied by the bison), but at least some fertilization with wild yak semen would be preferable.
• Tundra zebra (Equus quagga ssp.): Equus quagga, the plains zebra, is highly social and usually forms small family groups which may combine to form large herds. It could be adapted to the climate of the far north through introgression of either kiang genes or Yakutian horse genes. This would be the most challenging breeding project of the three, as in the F1 generation not only all stallions but also the majority of mares will be inferile. The kiang is closer to the zebras both in ancestry and in chromosome count, so the number of fertile F1 mares should be higher, but the horse is closer in its social behaviour.
  

Yak / Aurochs

The plans of Pleistocene Park call for the introduction of wild yak (Bos mutus) at some time in the future. If wild yak should prove not to be easy to come by, or not to thrive at these low altitudes (as the Wikipedia article on wild yak indicates), aurochs (Bos primigenius) might be used instead. The extinct aurochs is at this point being rebred by the TaurOs Project. With an introgression of yak-genes the ‘tauros’ could be adapted to the climate and habitat of the far north (see table below). Wild yak semen should be easier to come by than a herd of whole wild yak, though at a pinch domesticated yak might be used too. (Wild yak will result in bigger animals with a larger impact on nature and with better heat conservation; both desirable. Therefore the biggest wild yak available should be used as sperm donor.) TaurOs Project might be interested in a cooperation in developing an ‘arctic’ strain of the tauros, as this would extend the possible range of the tauros considerably – up to northern Scandinavia –, it would give them a base from which to bred the southern tauros to yak size, and introduction of the tauros to Pleistocene Park would be good PR for the tauros.
The same breeding program could of course be used to breed a lowland yak if necessary, in which case the parental animals used would be yak cows and gaur bulls, bison bulls or tauros bulls in the first step and yak bulls in the second and third steps. Aurochs (i.e. tauros), yak and wisent can be used in the project side by side, as these species do not interbred in the wild.

Table: Breeding program
Legend:
P – parental generation (yak and tauros),
F and B – filial generations (the offspring). The B-linage differs from the F-linage in having tauros Y-haplotypes instead of yak-Y-haplotypes.

	Crossing	Explanation	Results
Step 1	Pyak × Paur  = F1	Tauros cows are fertilized with yak semen.	All resulting offspring are pure Bos primigenius in the maternal line (i.e. have tauros mtDNA). F1 bulls will be infertile.
Step 2	Paur × F1  = B1	The F1 cows are bred to tauros bulls.	All offspring in the resulting B-linage are now also pure Bos primigenius in the paternal line (i.e., if male, have tauros Y-haplotypes).  B1 bulls may be infertile; if not, omit steps 3 and 4.
Step 3	Paur × B1  = B2	If necessary (no fertile B1 bulls), the B1 cows are bred to tauros bulls.	The resulting B2 offspring will have lost 87.5 % of the yak-genes on average, which necessates step 4.
Step 4	B2 × F1/Bn  = B3	The B2 bulls are bred to the F1, B1 and B2 cows.	The average amount of yak-genes is raised again.
Step 5	Bn × Bn/Fn  = Bn	From now on, only bulls of the B-linage are used in breeding.  (Exception: Step 2 may be inserted as often in the breeding process as deemed beneficial. Doing this every second generation may be advisable.)	All resulting offspring are pure Bos primigenius in both the maternal and the paternal line (i.e. they all have tauros mtDNA and Y-haplotypes), but otherwise they have a very heterogeneous mixture of tauros and yak chromosomes. They can now be bred selectively to (a) be adapted to the climate and habitat of the far north (selection on yak genes), and (b) confirm to the tauros geno- and phenotype in all other respects (selection on tauros genes).

Roberta jr. (talk) 22:15, 9 May 2013 (UTC), last edit 17:34, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Permafrost/global warming, etc.   –   topics needing to be added

The following topics need to be integrated in the article:

• permafrost / global warming issue: megafauna on grass steppe helps keep permafrost intact → prevents carbon and methane from being released → slows down global warming (sources: probably all articles listed in External links and References),
• Zimovs arguments against climatic change (increase in temperature and especially in humidity – “Twenty years ago, scientists explained the disappearance of numerous animals in the northern grasslands very simply—the arid steppe climate changed into a humid one, and when the steppe vanished so did the steppe's animals“ Zimov 2005) being reason for megafauna extinction:

• “Similar shifts occurred in previous interglacial periods, yet these did not cause catastrophic landscape reconstructions” (source: Zimov (2005) p. 797),
• musk oxen have been successfully introduced in ″super-humid″ Norway (sources: Zimov (2005) p. 797, Zimov (2007) p.107),
• climate (both temperatures and humidity) in todays northern Siberia similar to Mammoth steppe; radiation aridity ratio for northern Sib. on Mikhail Budyko’s scale is 2 (= steppe bordering on semi-desert) (sources: Zimov (2007) p.108, Zimov (2005) p. 797, Geo Currents (2012₂),

• “The park is a hub for international scientists and students, who come from around the world to conduct their own ecological research and experiments.” (sources: Davletyarova (2013) and others; see also ′Polaris Project’ in References).

Roberta jr. (talk) 10:23, 10 June 2013 (UTC)