Talk:Plas y Brenin

Created "Plas y Brenin" Talk page. (Gowron 09:17, 13 June 2006 (UTC))

email: rcj@cabernet.demon.co.uk

The place to share information and views is the discussion page - not email. If you edit on Wikipedia you must expect to be edited. I do not think I cut very much at all, certainly nothing factual. I don't know why you in the first place changed my 1870 to 'Sometime between 1869 and 1871' because that is the same thing and a case of why use one word when you can use five? But I did re-arrange and improved the punctuation in several places, which you have now undone. Bolding should be done sparingly if at all. In articles of this size just one or two key points and not in the history section. You have restored or inserted Wiki links to articles that don't exist. Why? This is bad practice. I am quite sure you can correctly wikilink Lord Penrhyn in some way without inventing a new article. I had changed references to the arrival (where?) of the Irish Mail Train to Chester and Holyhead Railway etc if only because the London to Dublin (Irish Mail) ran via Liverpool from 1839 until 1850 and only provincial mail went at that time via Holyhead. The opening of the railway to Bangor saw even this traffic switch to rail. You do not give Dukes their numbers unless it serves some real purpose but you could if you wish say that he was Lord Lieutenant of Ireland (which perhaps explains his visit). Why you want all that white space at the beginning I do not know. Bad practice. This page is not you personal property but I do admire the amount of work you have put into it and I do not think my edit diminished that in any way. Nice pictures, I suspect that you have family connections? NoelWalley 08:56, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I do take on board you comments and you are right that the entry is not mine. You are right to suspect family connections, I get terribly nostalgic when I see pictures of the place, it was a fantastic place to grow up, as I lived there for 20 years. My father was Play y Brenin's Director for 18 years. The 1869 and 1870 fact come from the register of the INN/Hotel and marriage and deaths records,

Thank you, it must have been a wonderful place in which to grow up. NoelWalley 14:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

It was ridiculously good. Imagine having access to a gigantic building in which to play whilst avoiding the rain. Couple that with all the activities on your doorstep, all the famous people who came to work or visit. Lord John Hunt (one of the nicest people ever) , Roger Bannister, Tensing Norgay, Edmnund Hillary, Bill Tilman, Norman Croucher, Dennis Howels, George band, Joe Brown, Peter Boardman, Chris Bonnigton, Nowang Gombu (first man to summit Everest more than once, lovely bloke) and of course my father John Angelo Jackson], the list is endless. Unfortunately climbing in the "Himalaya" is dangerous , quite a few people I got attached too as a child were killed in far off lands, very sad. (Gowron 15:19, 16 June 2006 (UTC))

I quote from the Royal Hotel's own short history document:

Clarification 1 "Its is not known when the Hotel became known as the Royal Hotel but all evidence seems to point to the year 1970 or 1971. The Hotel Register for the years 1861-1867 bears the inscribed title Capel Curig Hotel, but the next available register, that of 1873 bears the new title Royal Hotel. In addition, the entries in the marriages anbd Burial Registers of the local church give the address of the Hotel employees as The Capel Curig Hotel until the year 1869 and from the year 1871 as the Royal Hotel" These dates coincide with the death of Jane Williams, who was in sole charge, in 1869, her death may have lead to a short "Dark Age" of information.

Does this clarify why we can't be specific on the date. I think it is important to get things right, otherwise further errosion will occure at a later date, eventually leading to a useless document. The book is also the source of the ephotographs. I am sitting in mounds of documentation that my father collected, he also has a wealth of original Archeology of the area.

(Gowron 12:38, 16 June 2006 (UTC))

Not a problem as they say. Perhaps your researches will help you to refine it further. NoelWalley 14:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Clarification 2

I have other documentation regarding the relevant railway, again I quote from the "Short History of the Royal Hotel" Book. In the year 1808 the Mail Coach on its journey between Holyhead and Shrewsbury began to runj via Capel Curig. It followed this router without interruption until June, 1848 when the Irish Mail Train robbed the Coach of its important work". Now its is possible "The Royal Hotel" historians have got it wrong, but the source I'm using is very credible.

The history of the 'Irish Mail' is extremely complex but what I can tell you is that the actual GPO mail from London to Dublin (i.e. what is usually meant by 'Irish Mail') went by rail via Liverpool (then the quickest way) from 1839 until new contracts were signed after the opening of the Chester and Holyhead Railway, which was completed as far as Bangor in May 1848. What happened between 1839 and 1848 was that mails to and from Shrewsbury etc tended to travel by Mail Coach as did many of the passengers even from London either through distrust of newfangled trains or a preference for a shorter sea crossing. Once the railway reached Bangor, the coaches ceased to be viable. NoelWalley

Thats good detail, do you have that piece of text in your own entry, could be a usefull link. I guess the Royal Hotel probably used artistic license whene termining it the "Irish Mail Train" especially taken in context with the word "robbed" in the same sentence. (Gowron)

Clarification 3

What is bad practice? Thats got to be in the eye of the beholder. The white space is produced by the webserver server database software wheather that is PHP or ASP I do not know, the text and images are written to your computer from databases not HTML documents and as such do not have total control of where things are rendered onto you monitor. Content Style sheets govern the complexion or template of the pages, this is not under user control. I am not to blame, nor is anyone for that matter, there isn't such a thing as a TEMPPLATE that will suite evrybody. (Gowron 12:44, 16 June 2006 (UTC))

Most people put all the pictures (with captions) in the order in which they wish them to appear one below the other at the top (as I did) they then fit in without gaps in the text regardless of users browser settings or window widths. NoelWalley 14:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I promiss to have alook at that, the first time I did put in captions and/or subtitle and got into tepid water for something else. (Gowron)

I taken a look and made an alteration, however like a lot of entries the contents portion generates the whitespace, the contents list is short by comparison to other entries. The alteration has squared the text up somewhat though. (Gowron 17:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC))

Clarification 4

By "arrival" I mean "when" not "where", the confusion is probably due to style and we all have our own verion of that.

Clarification 5

Some links don't exist yes, but ONLY not YET or they are not rererenced properly and the links are declared broken. The lattee is another example of how Wikipedia works, its cleverly written not only to interact with its databases but also to highlight the fact that a link either does not exist or it is incorrectly spelled etc.

You will find that many Wiki editors consider it to be bad practice to put links to unwritten articles. NoelWalley 14:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

When starting a lot of work on an almost bare entry (I have written about 90% only just recently), that references are going to be initially empty, especially as some items have not been written about anywhere at this point. See The chicken or the egg I am unable to beat the the fast fingered typists out there looking at the entries. (Gowron 14:50, 16 June 2006 (UTC))

Clarification 6

When I mean cut I mean't "cut & paste" and a lot of stuff was moved wholesale around, I took on board what was on your mind and produced something more satsfactory. {Gowron 13:18, 16 June 2006 (UTC))

Clarification 7

I put my email address there as a result of seeing your own page and thought it might be a good idea to try. Since this is an Internet society I must take issue when you state that we must use the discussion page only. Recently I have been involved with getting clarification on other entries, these require me to converse with people all around the world, the discussion board is not up to that kind of interaction. (Gowron 13:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC))

Clarification 8

I give the full title because that is how it is recored by the Royal Hotel documents and the plaque. I see no reason to use some other title which would not reflect documentation. (Gowron 13:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC))

Please do not take the above comments as hostile, its a style issue and I recognize I may have this shotcoming. From your own entries which you have written I take it detail is highly important, factual content is also important to me due to my first life as a scientist. (Gowron 13:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC))