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Australia: Soccer Start‑class

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. bd2412 T 15:12, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

– Current titles don't comply with the WP:FOOTBALL manual of style for season articles at Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/League season

If there are two separate championships played over the course of one season (for example, in many Latin American countries with their Apertura/Clausura system) OR the season is decided by a knock-out tournament after the conclusion of the regular season (e.g. Major League Soccer, Australian A-League), the word "season" should be attached to the title.

Hack (talk) 16:47, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand why the format of the season affects the name page. The suggestion here is just to add the word season, not to specify a format (like separating to group stage and knockout stage, like in UEFA Champions or UEFA Europa League which both don't have the addition of season). Also, other more famous leagues than the Australian, American and Latin American leagues that don't have season: English Premier League, Spanish La Liga, Italian Serie A, German Bundesliga, French Ligue 1, Dutch Eredivisie.

--SuperJew (talk) 17:35, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. --BDD (talk) 18:11, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment- all of those leagues are determined purely on the basis of league play, hence the use of the word league unqualified is fine. The A-League is comprised of a league competition and a final series which together comprise the A-League season. Hack (talk) 00:42, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Still don't understand why the format of the season affects if it should have the word season attached to the name. Also both UEFA Champions and UEFA Europa League are not determined purely on the basis of league play and do not have the word season attached to their season pages. --SuperJew (talk) 05:34, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment- SuperJew, I would assume that the 2013–14 UEFA Champions League is one competition with various stages, where as the 2013–14 A-League is a separate competition to the Final Series of that season (the league acting as qualification for the end-of-season play-off tournament). So, it could be said the 2013–14 A-League season is comprised of two separate competitions.--2nyte (talk) 05:54, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The UEFA Champions is the same as the A-League in the regard of phases. There is a play-off stage which "acts as qualification" for the group stage which "acts as qualification" for the knock-out phase. --SuperJew (talk) 06:11, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm still not convinced that the addition of season to the article name will add clarification. Is clarification really necessary? If so, why?--2nyte (talk) 05:54, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment- I was just looking at 2012–13 Football League Championship. There is a league and end-of season playoffs, though the article title does not have season in it. This format (of league and end-of season playoffs) exists through out the whole English football league system (with the exception to the Premier League) and none of the season articles title has season in it.--2nyte (talk) 06:10, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - The English lower league winners are not determined on the basis of those playoff series, they're just a way of working out promotion places (a similar process applies in the Netherlands with the European playoffs). The A-League regular season and finals are distinct but interconnected competitions which are part of a single championship. Hack (talk) 08:24, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - do we have articles on the play-offs? If not, there is no reason to disambiguate. Giant Snowman 10:58, 14 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

no, only about the grand final, like most tournaments with cups have. I think we should continue as now, firstly because there is no difference, and secondly (as stated above) both UEFA Champions and UEFA Europa League have a few phases, but do not attach the word season to their page title. --SuperJew (talk) 12:23, 14 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Almost all of these articles refer to xxxx–xx A-League season in the lead and the seasons are almost always referred to as A-League seasons in reliable sources. Most of the links to these articles have to be piped in prose because of the awkwardness of xxxx–xx A-League. Wikipedia should be following reliable sources, not inventing usages - especially when the relevant manual of style mentions this league specifically. Hack (talk) 13:19, 14 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hack, I can see your point, though in relation to links to season articles the same can be said about the Premier League and La Liga. Where xxxx–xx league season or xxxx–xx season is used due to the 'awkwardness' of xxxx–xx league. I think we should really question the manual of style; why aren't all leagues titled xxxx–xx league season?--2nyte (talk) 14:03, 14 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - If the MOS for this type of article suggests that "season" be added to the titles of these articles, then I suggest that the MOS was badly formulated. There's no need for "season" to be added to the titles of these articles; if anything, it would introduce an element of inconsistency that we don't really need. – Pee Jay 19:08, 19 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per PeeJay. I just don't see any benefit to this change. --BDD (talk) 19:13, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I agree that the problem here is the MOS, not these article titles. Giant Snowman 10:20, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Oh this is a vote? Well I oppose too, as per above. --SuperJew (talk) 10:29, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

marking injuried players in the leading goalscorers box

I seem to have a little problem with this, as we usually mark the players based on the current round, but (i think) we don't do this retroactively. for example, this week Emile Heskey is injured and won't play in Newcastle's game. but if he scores a goal in a couple of months, I have a strong feeling he'll be added to the table, but this round's injury won't be marked. any thoughts? --SuperJew (talk) 07:29, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we should just have a plain list of goal scorers like other leagues without the round by round stats.--2nyte (talk) 10:25, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think the round by round is good, as it can show patterns for players. and the table does not subtract from seeing just the scorers. --SuperJew (talk) 14:56, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Differentiating between the Griffiths players

So now we have 4 players named Griffiths in the A-League: Brent Griffiths, Joel Griffiths, Ryan Griffiths and Rostyn Griffiths. Now usually to differentiate between players with the same family names, we can just use the first letter of the first name (as J. Burns and N. Burns). However that is not the case with Ryan and Rostyn Griffiths. Suggestions what to do? --SuperJew (talk) 17:45, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Is it necessary to differentiate between the players, the names have hyperlinks to the players article anyway.--2nyte (talk) 00:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is the common thing to do. For example in England there are A. Cole and J. Cole, G. Neville and P. Neville. In the time Ronaldo played, Cristiano Ronaldo was marked as C. Ronaldo. Also in the popular soccer games FIFA and PES, there is this differentiating. Another example: Marseille have A. Ayew and J. Ayew and they are marked that way in official UEFA reports ([1] & [2]). --SuperJew (talk) 07:09, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Also the shirts are marked this way: A. Cole & J. Cole, G. Neville & P. Neville, J. Ayew & A. Ayew, A. Ayew & J. Ayew --SuperJew (talk) 07:42, 26 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind either way, I'm just saying we've started a format of only using the players last names and I think with a hyperlink it's quite acceptable, though again I don't mind.--2nyte (talk) 05:32, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Revision as of 07:42, 26 January 2014 edit SuperJew (talk \| contribs) Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users 151,318 edits →Differentiating between the Griffiths players: r ← Previous edit		Revision as of 05:32, 27 January 2014 edit undo 2nyte (talk \| contribs) Extended confirmed users 12,702 edits →Differentiating between the Griffiths players: r Next edit →
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	::Also the shirts are marked this way: [http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/ch/chelsea-adidas-2010-11-chelsea-home-shirt-a-cole-3-.jpg A. Cole] & [http://www.calcioitaliashop.com/images/12061.jpg J. Cole], [http://www.icons.com/images/products/Gary_neville_signed_manutd_shirt_big.jpg G. Neville] & [http://sackthemanager.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/gary_and_phil_neville_500.jpg%3Fw%3D500%26h%3D250 P. Neville], [http://www.calcioitaliashop.com/images/JAyew-Ghana-Ringer.jpg J. Ayew] & [http://www.calcioitaliashop.com/images/AAyew-Ghana-Ringer.jpg A. Ayew], [http://www.predatorlzinfrared.com/images/more%20clubs%20soccer%20shirts/andre-ayew-10-olympique-marseille-away-2013-2014-football-shirt-name.jpg A. Ayew] & [http://www.pbl2010.com/images/football/Cheap-Marseille-Jordan-Ayew-8-soccer-jersey-2013-2014-3rd-Adidas-for-sale.jpg J. Ayew] --[[User:SuperJew\|SuperJew]] ([[User talk:SuperJew\|talk]]) 07:42, 26 January 2014 (UTC)		::Also the shirts are marked this way: [http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/ch/chelsea-adidas-2010-11-chelsea-home-shirt-a-cole-3-.jpg A. Cole] & [http://www.calcioitaliashop.com/images/12061.jpg J. Cole], [http://www.icons.com/images/products/Gary_neville_signed_manutd_shirt_big.jpg G. Neville] & [http://sackthemanager.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/gary_and_phil_neville_500.jpg%3Fw%3D500%26h%3D250 P. Neville], [http://www.calcioitaliashop.com/images/JAyew-Ghana-Ringer.jpg J. Ayew] & [http://www.calcioitaliashop.com/images/AAyew-Ghana-Ringer.jpg A. Ayew], [http://www.predatorlzinfrared.com/images/more%20clubs%20soccer%20shirts/andre-ayew-10-olympique-marseille-away-2013-2014-football-shirt-name.jpg A. Ayew] & [http://www.pbl2010.com/images/football/Cheap-Marseille-Jordan-Ayew-8-soccer-jersey-2013-2014-3rd-Adidas-for-sale.jpg J. Ayew] --[[User:SuperJew\|SuperJew]] ([[User talk:SuperJew\|talk]]) 07:42, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

			:::I don't mind either way, I'm just saying we've started a format of only using the players last names and I think with a hyperlink it's quite acceptable, though again I don't mind.--[[User:2nyte\|2nyte]] ([[User talk:2nyte\|talk]]) 05:32, 27 January 2014 (UTC)