Talk:Boeing 777

Orders and Deliveries

Would it be worth making a graph of 777 orders and deliveries similar to this one? Ranbi2Delta (talk) 20:43, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Graphs are always good. Even if it does not make the article, having the information in Mediawiki form will be useful to humanity in my opinion.Fotoguzzi (talk) 23:06, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

777X

I started a 777X section because the term is all over the media. I think the following could be inserted into the new section, but perhaps someone with more skill could do it?

"More design changes were targeted for late 2012, including possible extension of the wingspan,[100] along with other major changes, including a composite wing, new powerplant, and different fuselage lengths.[100][101][102] Emirates has been reported as working closely with Boeing on the project, and may be the aircraft's launch customer.[103] The Boeing board gave formal permission to start offering this variant to customers in May 2013.[104]"

The above seems a more specific version of the -8X -9X description. And, of course, some of the information is a bit out of date. I don't want to take out anything that is necessary, but I don't want to be too repetitious, either. Fotoguzzi (talk) 23:11, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

image change

--121.176.73.232 (talk) 06:01, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Why? Sailsbystars (talk) 06:03, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

I Like asiana airlines.--스토커 (talk) 08:27, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

POV: Incidents list items are hidden in prose: A list is a list, incidents overview softened

Reasons: see all my comments. 77.186.126.210 (talk) 10:31, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

That's not true at all. Prose and paragraphs allows for a much more coherent narrative (for example, regarding the issue with the RR Trent FOHE). And I fail to see how separate paragraphs somehow are biased vs. a list. Also, I think the POV-tags in general just serve as a distraction from discussing the actual issue and that the template ought to be deleted as completely useless. Sailsbystars (talk) 15:45, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

- Wikipedia's MOS on lists says "Do not use lists if a passage is read easily as plain paragraphs." That seems to directly apply here. -Fnlayson (talk) 19:54, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

• Note I have semi-protected the article can users come to a consensus on this talk page rather than tag war, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 15:53, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Language

The −300ER, which combined the −300's added capacity with the −200ER's range, became the top-selling 777 variant in the late 2000s, ... in the first paragraph of the extended range section is slightly misleading as we only just have started into that millenium. The late 2000s are still a fair bit away, I should think. I know what is meant - the late naughties, but would not know how to better phrase it myself. Any ideas? Thank you, -194.246.46.15 (talk) 10:22, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

In this case, when it's referring to the "2000s," it's not talking about the whole 21st century, but rather the first decade of the 21st century. So, by late-2000s, it's referring to ~2006-2009, not 2090-2099. Unfortunately, I don't know of anyway of referring to the decade as opposed to the century; I guess you just have to figure it out based on context. —Compdude¹²³ 07:25, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Operators list

This article's list of 777 operators is totally out of date. I keep trying to fix this, but people keep reversing my edits! I don't really know where to look for citations, so I use Wikipedia itself as a reference—and FYI, I don't much feel like going to every airline's website just to find out how many Triple-7s are in their fleets; I mean, that doesn't make sense!

Anyhow, I ask that people stop reversing my edits to the section "Boeing 777#Operators" and just add some good citations themselves when they find some. Personally, I don't really care how it gets done; just PLEASE somebody update that bloody operators list!!!

Thank you, -STH235SilverLover, 2 November 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by STH235SilverLover (talk • contribs) 15:44, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Please note that this is an encyclopedia so the list of operators does not have to be up to date as long as it is cited and dated. But if you want to change it then you need to provide a reliable reference that the list has changed. You say you dont know where to look for citations so how do you know the list is wrong? MilborneOne (talk) 16:37, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Using a single source for the operators list is the best way to be consistent with all numbers at a given time for fair comparisons. Flight International and Aviation Week are the best single sources for these numbers. -Fnlayson (talk) 00:02, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

777-8X and 777-9X orders

The order list should include separate columns for 777-8X and 777-9X, not group them all into the 777x family. Karpouzi (talk) 03:59, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Check the sources. Boeing only lists 777X now. -Fnlayson (talk) 11:03, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

My bad. Thanks Karpouzi (talk) 04:30, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Dispatch reliability edit war

Hello, could 77.186.6.240 (talk · contribs) please explain why verification is needed for a particular bit of info about improving reliability? I really don't see why verification is needed, and you haven't explained why you don't believe that info either. Re your comment in your edit summary, I know enough about WP to understand that edit-warring is a waste of time and it's better to discuss it on the talk page. So clearly, your claim that Fnlayson and I don't have a clue about Wikipedia doesn't hold any water. Just sayin'... —Compdude¹²³ 07:22, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

The IP has a point I think, the info from the source appears to have been misrepresented. The text is available online at amazon http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Boeing-Jetliners-Guy-Norris/dp/0760307172/

Choose the 'look inside!' option, search for '99.96' and there it is. The 99.96% is I think is for the Trent engines not the 777 generally which the article implies.

From http://www.ataebiz.org/forum/2008_ata_e-biz_forum_agenda/Reliaibility_Nazareth.pdf 'Dispatch Reliability is the percentage of revenue departures that do not incur a primary technical delay greater than 15 minutes, or a primary technical cancellation.'

99.96% sounds very unrealistic for general dispatch reliability. Woodywoodpeckerthe3rd (talk) 07:45, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

"99.96% sounds very unrealistic" : Thats the point- And even more: Boeing "LIES" about reliability: Select only the -300,[1] A330 (not mentioned) is equal to 777, in another Boeing statement they present much too low figures for the A320: 99.4 percent versus 99.7-99.8 Airbus figures.[2][3][4][5][ Probably they take very short-term figures for a bad month for Airbus and select a good month for Boeing. Varies also with airline.[6] Corrections done. 77.186.6.240 (talk) 08:20, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

User:Fnlayson check this link for confirmation about the 15 minutes being industry standard for schedule or dispatch reliability http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2000-12-18-LanChile-Adds-Three-Boeing-767-300-Freighters-To-Its-Fleet

' The 767-300 Freighter benefits from the 767's established schedule or "dispatch" reliability, performance and operational advantages. Schedule reliability - an industry measure of departure from the gate within 15 minutes of scheduled time - is nearly 99 percent for the 767.' Woodywoodpeckerthe3rd (talk) 05:48, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

This is all well and good, but this is not common knowledge. There was nothing to back up the 15 minutes part in the article until the 737 article that states that was added as a reference. I've never seen a time mentioned for the equivalent mission capable rates for military aircraft. Please just remove or edit content as needed instead of wholesale reverts. -Fnlayson (talk) 21:45, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm surprised you weren't aware of what dispatch reliability is. A google search reveals it's definition and central importance in operating and marketing airliners. In the military, I would guess schedules and operating economics would be of relatively little importance in comparison to the airline industry, so it wouldn't be much of a concern. An easily understandable definition of what dispatch reliability is is given in the article for those not aware. Nonetheless I have added a suitable reference http://www.avbuyer.com/articles/detail.asp?Id=2363 explaining in more detail dispatch reliability and related terms (the 737 article is not suitable as a reference , that was given just as an example of the use of the term by Boeing). The wholesale reverts were intentional, not sure what you mean there. Woodywoodpeckerthe3rd (talk) 23:44, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

As far as I can see dispatch reliability has no encyclopedic value as Woodtwoodpeckerthe3rd says "importance in operating and marketing airliners" neither of which are part of the role of an encyclopedia. MilborneOne (talk) 14:10, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

So you consider the operating costs of airliners of which dispatch reliability is one important part to be unencyclopaedic? But most of the articles on airliners discuss operating costs. I don't think that's a realistic position to take. An encyclopedia should discuss whether an aircraft is economical to run and how this influences the success of the aircraft sales wise. I see dispatch reliability is being mentioned in the 787 article. Woodywoodpeckerthe3rd (talk) 20:51, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Cabin Width for the 777-8 and 777-9

The two new versions of the 777 should retain the exterior fuselage diameter (20ft 4in) of the older models but perhaps have a widened interior (up from 19ft 3in). I have read that Boeing may aim for a 4in interior widening to 19ft 7in, thereby reducing the exterior-interior width differential from 13in to 9in. I doubt that this differential could be reduced all the way to 4in. I think the 20ft interior width figure that was cited was a rounded figure.