User talk:Hybernator

Reževići Monastery

Thank you very much for copy-editing of this article.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:06, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Thado Dhamma Yaza I of Prome

Allen3 ^talk 12:09, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Myanmar Securities Exchange Centre

The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

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DYK for Thado Dhamma Yaza II of Prome

DYKUpdateBot (talk) 05:33, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Shwebomin, Crown Prince of Burma

Dear Hybernator, please take a look at Shwebomin, Crown Prince of Burma. I can't find any relation of Shwebomin, Crown Prince of Burma to Konbaung Dynasty in Burmese, and interviews with family of current pretender to the Burmese throne around 2013 ပါတော်မူနေ့ anniversary did not mention him. PhyoWP *click 15:09, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Just looked at it. Seems to me, the issue isn't just whether he is what he claims to be but also whether he's achieved enough notoriety (say, even as an imposter) to warrant an article. On the central issue, he or anything in the article has provided any proof from a reliable source that he is what he claims to be. (Most of the citations and external links are dead links. The Defining Moment website's interview videos are no more authoritative than Chris Buyers' Royal Ark website.) The second issue is whether someone going around in England claiming to be a pretender to the Burmese throne without proof has met the notoriety/newsworthiness bar of Wikipedia. On both counts, you can take action: for starters, highlight the dead links and tag the article with non-reliable sources (or the sort), etc. Regards, Hybernator (talk) 17:44, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

I nominated it for deletion. I think he is a fraud. But of course, even if a fraud, he has never obtained enough attention to warrant an article. SWH^{® talk} 06:52, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

December 2013

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• to 1468. In the early years of his reign, this former [[List of rulers of Prome|viceroy of Prome]]) (Pyay) was forced to deal with raids from the [[Shan States|Shan State]] of [[Mogaung]] as well as
• Chronicle of Yunnan claims that the Ming recognized Mohnyin as Avan territory in 1452, not 1454.) Thokyeinbwa arrived at [[Beijing]] in a cage on 30 August 1454 and was executed on 2 September

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Template:Did you know nominations/Myanmar National Symphony Orchestra

Hi Hybernator. Regarding your nomination, I just have a concern over close paraphrasing in a small number of passages. Please could you have a look at my comments on the template page. Regards, Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 21:57, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks; I have now verified this. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 16:59, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

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DYK for Myanmar National Symphony Orchestra

Harrias ^talk 12:02, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Bago as a seaport???

Hi. There are some mentions in Wiki (e.g. here) and elsewhere, that prosperity of the Bago in 15/16th centuries was an effect of its role as a seaport (or center of the maritime trade). But when one looks at the maps one can see that the coastline is in distance of about 40 km from Bago and that the river flowing through the city is relatively narrow. So how could the Bago be the "major seaport"??? How could sea ships reach the city by the not so wide river? I imagine that Tenasserim or Martaban were the major seaports of Hanthawaddy Kingdom and that Bago was its capital but not the seaport. Am I wrong? Can you help me to dispel this doubt as a recognized wikiexpert in the field of Myanmar history, culture etc., please. With kind regards Jeremiasz (talk) 19:18, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your interest in Myanmar's history and culture. And thanks very much indeed for your contributions on Myanmar-related topics on Polish Wikipedia. It's a good question, and I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge. (I'm just an amateur; like a lot of Wiki contributors, my field of expertise (day job) is something else.) Bago is conjectured to be a seaport--right on the coast--during the Pagan period, before the gradual growth of the delta due to silting. See this reimagined map from 1925. But colonial era conjectures need to be checked with more scientific dating. And I don't know if Bago being on the coastline has been confirmed by actual archaeological/geological surveys.

That said, it need not have been on the coastline to have been a major port. We do know from 16th century European travellers that Bago, along with Mottama, remained a major entrepot still accessible from sea where merchant houses were set up to conduct trade. Even if it was no longer right on the coastline in the 16th century--mind you, it might never have been--we can say with a high degree of confidence that it certainly was not as far away from the coastline as today, and its port apparently was still deep enough to accommodate smaller ships of the era. We can confirm the southward shift of the coastline from the known records of other ports in the region. In the 17th century, both Thanlyin and Dagon (later Yangon) were much closer to the sea than ~50 km today. And silting has taken a toll on both Yangon and Thanlyin ports. Today, neither port can no longer support large ships, and the main port has been moved down to Thilawa, south of Thanlyin. (The coastline still inches southward each year, although its growth may have been slowed by the rising sea levels due to climate change.)

Lastly, to have been a capital for long periods, a city in those days needed to be a major economic center that could support a large population. (The kings wanted to control as many people as close to the capital region--for easier taxation enforcement, and faster mobilization.) Most capitals in Upper Myanmar were close to the Kyaukse region which was the rice basket of the country and was heavily populated. But in the south, agriculture was not as developed as the north--large scale farming in the south began only in the British era--and southern Myammar depended much more on external trade. Not surprisingly, the southern capitals of Mottama and Bago were both major ports that supported major population centers. If Bago were not a major port, we'd have to show other sources of economic activity that sustained it being a capital for centuries.

That's my two cents. I welcome more questions and feedback. Best regards, Hybernator (talk) 23:32, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much - your explanations are very convincing. I have one more (and not last, I suppose ;) ) request: would you be so kind to look at the questions that I asked Phyo WP and give me the lacking information? Best regards. Jeremiasz (talk) 14:05, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

I've answered on that talk page. Hybernator (talk) 21:24, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much, especially for interest in "guinea pig question" ;). Jeremiasz (talk) 09:36, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Some new questions

And next question: were U Ottama, U Wizara and U Nu detained in Insein Prison? Did U Wizara conduct his last hunger strike in Insein? Could you propose some other names of famous Insein's inmates, please (I have ASSK, Min Ko Naing, Saw Wai, Soe, Than Tun and Tin U on the list so far). BTW: for more detailed answers you can use my e-mail address. Jeremiasz (talk) 07:59, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry. I'm not sure, although given their stature, it's quite probable that all three served time there. User:Wagaung, who might have retired from Wiki, would be a good one to ask this question. Hybernator (talk) 21:34, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Thnx. Jeremiasz (talk) 15:08, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

U Ottama and U Wisara were in Tharrawaddy Prison, notorious during the time of British colonial rule. U Nu was in Rangoon Central Jail where all political prisoners used to be during the time of his government before it was pulled down later by the military rulers. Wagaung (talk) 21:35, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

First, I hope you are not bored with my constatnt asking - believe me please, that I ask you only when I can't find reliable answers in my (rather scarce) sources. And the next questions:

1. What is difference between mohinga and mohinga-mon?

• Never heard of mohinga-mon. But I suspect they mean Template:My, which sounds odd to me. I wonder if they mean optional fritters which in Yangon are called akyaw (Template:My). Assuming my guess is true, I've never referred to those extras as mohinga-mon myself; nor has anyone I know. But it could very well be regional usage. (I can give you a more precise answer if you have the Burmese spelling.)

1. The "banana bud stem" is one of mohinga's ingredients. What is the bud in this case: the top of banana tree (i.e. meristem) or banana flower? Regards. Jeremiasz (talk) 10:11, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

• It's the banana trunk. It's sliced into thin pieces, thrown into the soup-base along with other ingredients. Anyway, you should try out mohinga if you get a chance. The soup is surprisingly similar to bouillabaisse. Hybernator (talk) 22:03, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank a lot. Mohinga is one of my favorite dishes. Unfortunately, Burmese cuisine is underrepresented in the world and barely existent in Poland :((( Even in Myanmar one can have problems to find Burmese dishes: when I was in Bagan I wanted my son to try Burmese cuisine (I always try to eat only local dishes of the country I am traveling to). But all restaurants around our hotel (4 or 5) had only Thai and Chinese dishes (which were very tasty, but not local...). Finally, when I asked for only Burmese dish hardly found in the menu (it was kind of salty bean paste - very tasty!) the waitress warned me: "You will not like it!". Regards. Jeremiasz (talk) 07:36, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Parabaik

Is parabaik ( ပုရပိုက် ) a type of paper (like is told here) or type of Burmese manuscript made of paper as opposite to palm leaf (like here) or both ? And why it is ပုရပိုက် in en-wiki and မြန်မာပုရပိုက် (Myanma parabaik?) in my-wiki ? Jeremiasz (talk) 14:33, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

It almost always refers to types of paper (although technically, parabaiks can be made of gold, silver, and other materials). Palm leaf manuscripts have their own name: Template:My. The Burmese term for literature Template:My comes from that. Ancient manuscripts are often collectively referred to as Template:My because they were almost always written on these two media. (The third would be stone inscriptions, considered most reliable from a historical studies standpoint. Because they are much more durable, they are much much less susceptible to copying errors of palm leaf and parabaik manuscripts which need to be recopied every 100 years or so. But it took much more effort to inscribe on stones, so stone inscriptions weren't widely used.)

The Burmese Wiki article is a direct copy of the same article in the Burmese encyclopedia Myanma Swezon Kyan (MSK), which uses Template:My. I'm not sure why the authors of MSK chose to add the word Template:My but based on the article, which talks about how it was made and used in the ancient times in Myanmar, it seems the authors added it to signify how paper manuscripts were used in Myanmar. It's my guess because the article doesn't talk about how parabaik paper types used in Myanmar were any different from those used in neighboring states to warrant the term Template:My. Hybernator (talk) 19:10, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Once again: Thank you very much. Jeremiasz (talk) 17:25, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Saw Omma of Pinya

Orlady (talk) 09:53, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

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Good articles

Hello Hybernator,

Several articles about Burmese kings that you have edited (Anawrahta, Tabinshwehti, Bayinnaung, Alaungpaya, Hsinbyushin) are really impressive. I would like to encourage you to nominate them, at least for Good Article (perhaps even Featured). Articles that excel the Wikipedia average by far should be recognised and marked as such. The same applies to the war articles (like Burmese–Siamese War (1759–60), Burmese–Siamese War (1765–67), Sino-Burmese War (1765–69)). Thanks a lot for these great articles. Kind regards. --RJFF (talk) 19:50, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi RJFF, thanks very much for the encouragement. I've made a conscious decision not to start the GA process (yet) because I've wanted to spend my limited time on improving the general state of articles on Burmese history and culture, which is still quite poor. (More than half Toungoo, Mrauk-U, Konbaung kings are at a stub or start level. Likewise with war articles. The Toungoo Dynasty and Konbaung Dynasty articles are in shambles.) Given the amount of work ahead, spending time on the GA process hasn't been a priority.

That said, I definitely want key articles to GA and beyond, not least because I'd like more eyes monitoring them. You might notice that I've been creating articles on auxiliary topics in the candidate articles to eliminate red links there. It's a slow and grinding process; as you know, even short (seemingly minor) articles take a lot of time to research. It's slowly getting there. E.g., I've eliminated most of the reds in the Tabinshwehti article; I still need to start Toungoo–Mrauk-U War (1545–47), Toungoo–Ava War (1538–45), List of rulers of Martaban. (I could not red-link them but red linking is a good way to force me to work on topics I consider important.)

Anyway, I do plan to start the GA process for at least a couple of articles later this year. I'll certainly need help and guidance from other editors. I'd like to enlist you to contribute to improve the articles. Again, thank you for the kind words and encouragement. Regards, Hybernator (talk) 17:20, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Binnya Dala (minister-general)

Thanks for your article from the wiki and I Victuallers (talk) 00:02, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Burmese calendar

In the table between page 78 and 79, U Ohn Kyaing [Kyaing, 1964] said second era began at 1217 ME. That was why I put 1216 ME and before as the first era. Could you read the books in Burmese language? If so, I have scanned copy of the book at the following link.

https://googledrive.com/host/0B7WW8_JrpDFXTHRHbUJkV0FBdFU/UOhnKyaing_MyanmarCalendar.pdf

In that book, he mentioned the third era began at 1317 ME. But when I tried to formulate the insertion of intercalary day, I concluded that the effective beginning of the third era should be 1312 ME. I have written my approach at the following link:

http://cool-emerald.blogspot.sg/2013/06/algorithm-program-and-calculation-of.html

References

[Kyaing, 1964] Ohn Kyaing, "Myanmar Patkadain Thutaythana Kyan," Sarpaybeitman, 1964.

Yannaingaye (talk) 03:48, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, Ko Yan Naing Aye. Your Cool Emerald paper is really impressive. (You should submit it to an academic journal for peer review.) I've just browsed through it and U Ohn Kyaing's book. I'll read them more thoroughly. Here are a few comments/questions:

• The current calendar no longer uses the Metonic cycle or any kind of 19-year cycle. Big and small leap years are determined purely from the number of excess days in the first 8 months of the year. I don't think this can even be called modified Metonic!
• You say expanding the excess day accumulation period to 10 months would keep the new year's day in Tagu. But the real question is would it keep the new year's day from slipping farther against the Gregorian calendar? That is, because the Burmese calendar is based on sidereal years, my understanding is that the new year's day will keep on drifting away against solar calendars.
• Can your formula work for dates prior to 22 March 638 (the epochal date)? For example, can it handle a Pyu era (Shalivahana era) date? Hybernator (talk) 01:16, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

---

Thank you, Hybernator.

• In my opinion, the term Metonic cycle is misleading for the current Myanmar calendar system and it should not be used. Unlike the old system, the years with the intercalary month are not related to 19 year Metonic cycle.

• Thanks again. It means (Chatterjee 1998: 150–151)'s assumption that the calendar is still on a 19-year cycle is incorrect. I'll go through (Ohn Kyaing 1964) and figure out how to alter the current text in the article. Hybernator (talk) 01:19, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

• Changing the period to 10 months should not affect the new year time which is based on sidereal year. It only makes adding intercalary month a bit earlier so that the month Kason does not come too early to be happened in the Thingyan time. If a have a spare time, I will try to develop a program to calculate for a few hundred years to check and prove it.

• I wonder how much benefit it'll bring by going to 10 months from 8 today. We've had Hnaung Kason years in history. Though I can see why we don't want the calendar to be too out-of-sync, how many Hnaung Kason years will we avoid by going to 10? The benefit might be marginal. Anyway, please go ahead with the calculations and proof. More academic analyses can only help. Hybernator (talk) 01:19, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

• My formula only works for second and third era only. For the first era back to 638 CE, I used a table look up method.

Best regards, Yannaingaye (talk) 07:31, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Royal Historical Commission of Burma

Could you be so kind to give me the name of the Royal Historical Commission of Burma in Burmese script, please. (Have you heard something new about guinea pig in Burmese calendar? ;) )Jeremiasz (talk) 20:39, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

• Done. Added the Burmese name (modern-day usage) in the article. Note: the 19th century usage in the primary source Hmannan is a long run-on sentence about the authors being a group of learned monks and men.
• I still haven't got to the bottom of the guinea pig conundrum yet. Stay tuned.
• Btw, User:Wagaung answered your question about Insein Prison here.Hybernator (talk) 00:53, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Where do you take IPA transcription of Burmese words from? I take it from this site, but it is different than yours. I often add IPA transcription in pl-Wiki because Polish pronunciation of Burmese words transcripted to Latin is very different from proper one. Thank you for your help so far and be patient please - you are the only person knowing Burmese language and culture I have contact with :) Jeremiasz (talk) 10:27, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

• I use Help:IPA for Burmese. You may want to create a similar page on Polish Wiki.
• No problems with the questions at all. I'll try to answer/help out as much as I can. It's always good to have outside/fresh pairs of eyes looking at Burma articles. I'd never have checked out the guinea pig story, for example. Cheers. Hybernator (talk) 00:00, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Here [1] is another converter developed by User:Lionslayer. Please take a look at it. PhyoWP *click 05:06, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks a lot.Jeremiasz (talk) 05:21, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Maryam Shafipour

Hybernator, are you finished with this review, or is there more to come? The review is unsigned, which is a problem. Please make sure this is completed. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:38, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

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Alaungpaya

I am just translating Alaungpaya. So I have some questions: 1. Would you be so kind to translate and write in the Burmese scripts Alaungpaya's titles: Bala Nanda Kyaw and Thiri Pawara Wizaya Nanda Zahta Maha Dharma Yazadiyaza Alaung Mintayagyi. 2. Is "Aung Zeya" translation as Victorious Success acceptable? Victorious Victory sounds rather awkwardly in Polish translation. 3. Similarly, can I translate Alaungpaya as Buddha who is to be born? The word embryo has rather unpleasent associations in Polish (it sounds rather like medical term). 4. What does it mean Konbaung? I can't find explanation of the name of this dynasty. If it is not the name of the city (like Pagan or Toungoo), so what is its origin? Thanks. Jeremiasz (talk) 05:20, 17 April 2014 (UTC)