Talk:Bowe Bergdahl

The Taliban

QUESTION: Should "the" Taliban be treated as a singular ("the faculty" as an example), presuming "it" is in agreement, or a "they" presuming they are atomized and not acting in concert?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by GrinchPeru (talk • contribs) 01:36, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

ANyone??? GrinchPeru (talk) 18:31, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

The Taliban article uses the singular. I've always heard the term used in the singular (mostly). --Elliskev 18:58, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Quote from video

After being asked by his captors if he had a message for his people, Bergdahl answered:

To my fellow Americans who have loved ones over here, who know what it's like to miss them, you have the power to make our government bring them home. Please, please bring us home so that we can be back where we belong and not over here, wasting our time and our lives and our precious life that we could be using back in our own country. Please bring us home. It is America and American people who have that power.

Why was this quote removed as "not neutral"? The quote is directly from the BBC article, so if they think it should be mentioned, then I don't see why we should not. The video is what he is notable for, why are we not allowed to describe it? And why is "in the video Bergdahl states the date as July 14 2009" or the US military response deemed neutral enough to be included, but the above quote not? Note that we should not represent American military POV in this article, but a global and multi-sided one. Also remember WP:verifiability, not truth. Offliner (talk) 06:52, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Not neutral was probably a poor description of the problem here. The problem as Cshay has stated earlier is the statement was given under duress. Therefore it's relevance is questionable. If we were discussiong a statement from the Taliban or his captors, then including it would probably be appropriate but we're not Nil Einne (talk) 11:53, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

"The problem as Cshay has stated earlier is the statement was given under duress. Therefore it's relevance is questionable." I don't understand. Whether or not it was given under duress is irrelevant (we don't even know if it was); WP:V says verifiability, not truth. Since when did we start dropping statements by someone because they may not correspond to what the source really thinks? There are lots of other articles were we are quoting what someone says while being held captive. Why is this case different? The quotation is a description of the video, so why would not be relevant? (It was deemed relevant by the BBC as well.) Offliner (talk) 12:08, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Can you show other articles where we include random quotes made in a video released by the captors of a person who is being held captive without access to lawyers, and other things considered basic human rights, particular of a BLP? I would like to see such articles, as I would like to remove these quotes. The issue here again is not truth, but of relevance and weight. There's no clear relevance of the quotes. Do they say something about Bowe Bergdahl? No? Do they say something about his captivity? No. Are they a statement from his captors? Maybe, but we don't know. Your claim on the BBC is frankly irrelevant. They also mentioned:

"I miss them and I'm afraid that I might never see them again, and that I'll never be able to tell them that I love them again, and I'll never be able to hug them,"

Which we don't mention. If I look harder, I may be able to find out further quotes in other articles by other media, perhaps even ending up with effectively a whole transcript. There's clearly NO reason to include the entire tape in the article. Therefore we should only include any relevants parts. Issues like the date, his current condition, how/why he was captured may have some relevance. Random other things to do not. Nil Einne (talk) 22:34, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

It's a description of what is on the video. This is relevant. You can include other things from the video if you want, but their absence is not a reason for removing this. Also, can you point out on which Wikipedia guideline you are basing your deletion? Offliner (talk) 22:38, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Are you genuinely telling me you think there is merit to include a transcript of the entire video? If so, I hate to tell you this, but you are in the wrong place. Please go to wikisource. Once you start making sense, then we can talk Nil Einne (talk) 22:41, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Are you genuinely telling me you think there is merit to include a transcript of the entire video? - no, I'm not. Offliner (talk) 22:43, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay then can you explain to me why you believe this detail belong in this article, and not other details? Why not "Well I'm scared, scared I won't be able to go home. It is very unnerving to be a prisoner." Or mention he is hoping to marry his girlfriend? Would you prefer we just copy the BBC article and every other reliable source we can find? Please don't tell me to add them, I don't believe they belong, any more then the quote you want to add. Since you believe the original quote belongs, I'm trying to understand why. All you've really said is it exists in a reliable source, but so do many other details we exclude for articles every day, including many here as I've demonstated. (If I wanted to be mean, I could ask you to try and include every single detail mentioned in any reliable source about Britney Spears to her article and the same for the Paris Hilton and Diana of Wales articles if you genuinely believe every detail in a RS belongs but I won't since we have enough here.) So if you feel these belong, then please add them or at least agree you feel they belong, then perhaps we can enlist wider review or perhaps you'd realise it's a bit silly to mention in this article that Bowe Bergdahl hopes to marry his girlfriend, was scared and missed his family, at least according to a propaganda video made while he was being held captive by unknown people without any apparent consideration of what are generally considered normal human rights. Either way, we'd be getting somewhere... If you don't believe these belong then explain to me why you feel the quote is of more importance or relevance to the article, then these other details, from the BBC and other sources (taken from the video) that you are excluding. How do they significantly improve the readers understanding of the subject, the subject being primarily Bowe Bergdahl, and not even his capture (since this is an article on him, not his capture, not that I get how they improve the readers understanding of his capture either). P.S. In case you think I'm some deranged American full of love for his country, I'm not, I dislike many things the US does and they've shown themselves not much better in their treatment of people in Guantanamo Bay. But we don't tend to include random quotes from people held in Guantanamo Bay released by Americans in articles about these people either Nil Einne (talk) 22:58, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

He also wants to learn more about Islam and believes the morale of the US military is low and the war is hard incidentally. We also forgot to mention that parts of the video showed him sitting cross legged and also parts showed him eating. Probably we should also mention his non-decript gray outfit and of course his "start of a beard" and shaven head I guess. [1] Nil Einne (talk) 23:25, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Should the quote from the video be included?

Should the quote which is discussed in the section above be included in the article? Offliner (talk) 22:46, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

How he was captured

On a somewhat different issue, has intrigued me. Have the US military ever given further details then "walking off his base in eastern Afghanistan with three Afghan counterparts"? Have any RS discussed the fact which seems to me anyway that the details provided the US military fit more closely with the alleged Taliban's version, then with Bergdahl's version given in the video? Nil Einne (talk) 23:15, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

A recent article in the May 28 issue of Time (which is online here) brings this up. Here are the relevant bits:

How Bergdahl fell into the hands of the Haqqani network remains unclear. Within days of his disappearance on June 30, a Taliban commander crowed to the media that his group had captured a drunken American soldier outside his base. Two and a half weeks later, they released a video. Bergdahl, dressed in local garb and showing the beginnings of a wispy beard, said he had been captured after falling behind on a routine foot patrol. Unnamed soldiers from his base, however, told international media outlets that he had wandered into the scrub-covered mountains on his own with his journal and a supply of water, leaving his weapons and armor behind. An unidentified U.S. official told the Associated Press at the time that he had "just walked off" after his guard shift was over.

For the Bergdahls and the Hailey community, Bowe's return would mark the end of a long journey. But for Bowe, who has been criticized by many for the circumstances surrounding his capture and his appearance in propaganda videos, it would be just the start. "He will always be separate from everyone else--not an outcast, but isolated," says Vadn Dyk, who is still haunted by his own experience. "And it won't be right, but he will be called a traitor. He has a long road ahead."

This should be incorporated into the article but I don't know the process. -- 97.154.220.19 (talk) 20:47, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

What is really interesting to me is that Bowe wrote an 8000 word email to his family just prior to being captured. That email details his distaste for how the military is run. And then he was captured. This is described in a Rolling Stone article that was just printed. Mylittlezach (talk) 04:36, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Let it be noted that this page is unreliable

Per previous Wikipedia censorship on kidnapping issues, it should be noted that information on this page is unreliable, and potentialy incomplete. Caution is advised. Reports regarding Bergdahl will not make it on the page... David Rohde --E2039 (talk) 15:42, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

See also removed

The See also to three bios on Iraqi war POWs who were tortured and mutilated before being killed is insensitive and disrespectful to family and friends who may come across this BLP. The very peripheral relationship between these bios, (American soldiers captured) is outweighed by the dissimilarities - different countries, different wars, different militants, different US administrations, AND the sensitivity and respect issues discussed above. Readers can easily access information that is actually more closely related to the Bowe Bergdahl bio by clicking on the Category:War in Afghanistan at the bottom of the page.

I have removed it. If you would like to discuss this further, please discuss this below and get consensus before restoring. KeptSouth (talk) 11:38, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

• I don't have any strong feelings on this. But perhaps you have more similar blps that you would like to add instead?--Epeefleche (talk) 11:46, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I am sorry that you don't have any strong feelings on this. Many Americans do care about the sensitivities of the families and friends of our soldiers. Regardless, I am thankful that your feelings are not leading you to re-add the links. KeptSouth (talk) 12:59, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Please see WP:AGF.173.216.248.174 (talk) 02:13, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Is Bergdahl Jewish???

Is Bergdahl Jewish??? Thanks in advance to anybody that knows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.154.31.248 (talk) 00:16, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

DOD speech

I didn't see this document cited, Sept 16, 2011 speech which identifies Bowe as "captured".

http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/news/speeches/documents/panetta_2011_pow_mia.pdf 71.82.148.223 (talk) 16:26, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Israeli press referred to him as the "The American Gilad Shalit"

[2] Is there anyway to insert this to the article? caus the comparison of the two cases keeps the Israeli press buissy...? --Midrashah (talk) 23:18, 31 May 2014 (UTC)