Talk:Palmer v. Kleargear.com

Coming to a consensus on this article

Personally I think an AfD nomination for "delete" would have been justified. Kleargear, as a company, aren't really notable enough to have their own article. I for one had not heard of KG before this whole thing even blew up.

However, I think both the people calling ZOMG WIKIPEDIA CENSORS EVERY111!!!1 and the people wanting coverage of the Kleargear controversy (by the way Wikipedia is NOT a newspaper!) could both have their way by renaming the article to something along the lines of 2013 Kleargear controversy?

I must also admit WP:NPOV did come to mind the second I finished reading. It's very one sided and not encyclopedic in tone at all. The fact it's also orphaned should also give some idea of its' non-notability.☭ cmn ☭ ( ❝❞ /✍ ) 19:44, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

There are a lot of important concepts in this article , and news media continue to raise them (with reference to klear gear). I think the solution is cleaning up and improving, not deleting. The company is part of a greater issue — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.84.205.194 (talk) 16:12, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Added a link from Striesand effect

Using this case as an example. Is one enough to remove the orphan note? Uneffect (talk) 14:48, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, one link is enough for it to no longer be an orphan. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 12:23, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

This text:

The public backlash against KlearGear's actions are an example of the Streisand effect.

...hardly seems backed up by reality, Kleargear is still doing large volume business, and has recently reintroduced the offending policy. So exactly what "backlash"? They pissed off a bunch of Slashdot readers and made the national media, but "backlash"? Not much, really. Taco Viva (talk) 01:17, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I am not even sure if the clauses in their terms are even legal. Something gives me a feeling that we will see mpre about this company in the future thqn this one instance of possibly fraudulant charges. 98.117.83.122 (talk) 04:09, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

CEO

I notice that someone would like to change the name of the CEO based on a citation to Ripoff Report. We need a better source than this, as Ripoff Report is an even worse source than CNN iReport. I'm not entirely sure that we should even be listing any names if those are the best sources available. I'll see what I can find. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 22:56, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

As a follow-up, I was able to locate a source from 2012 that identifies Gersten as the President. Unreliable sources, such as blogs and random affiliate websites, seem to connect Bermender in some way to Kleargear. Until we can get a reliable source that conclusively connects him in a direct way (preferably with a specific job title), I would oppose the inclusion of his name. Our job is to neutrally provide verifiable facts cited to reliable sources, not name-and-shame possibly unrelated persons. These additions arguably violate our policy on biographies of living persons. If the problematic edits continue, I will seek page protection for this article again. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 07:04, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Bermender

An editor repeatedly insists on adding this individual as a key person. However, this article (and I have no idea where it came for and whether it's legitimate) links only show him to be a "contact" for the company and as such I see no reason why he should be listed. This and this are not reliable sources. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:11, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

A very few Bermender references - of dozens

"Guys love gadgets, and KlearGear.com has over a thousand gadgets, tools, office toys, and home and office decor ideas for any techie dad," stated Will Bermender, President of KlearGear.com. "But our products appeal to the Geek in everyone."

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/KlearGear.com+Announces+Top+Ten+Techie+Father's+Day+Gift+Ideas.-a0146812416

""With our shared demographic, selling across brands allows both companies to enhance the customer experience and build loyalty," said KlearGear.com president Will Bermender. "The revenue synergies we achieve through this partnership will drive conversion rates and improve customer acquisition, retention, and profitability results for both retail concepts."

http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/Zaldivacom-Announces-Marketing-Partnership-With-KlearGearcom-707893.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.147.186 (talk) 00:50, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

"“Our new affiliate program is the perfect win-win situation where we can introduce our cutting edge gadgets to new audiences, while also sharing financial rewards with web site owners,” said Will Bermender, President at KlearGear.com."

Kleargear announces new affiliate program ... http://www.mistermuscle.net/fitness-gear/kleargear-com-announces-new-affiliate-program/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.147.186 (talk) 00:53, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

http://fr.yatedo.com/willbermender — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.147.186 (talk) 00:56, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Again these only list him as a contact for the company. It's possible (while you may be correct, unlikely) that he is merely a low-level public relations person at the company. Until we know otherwise, we air on the side of caution. Is there any particular facts that you think belong in the article? I'm not sure what the purpose of just adding names would accomplish. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 01:00, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Ricky81682, did you actually read the quotations that the IP user posted, or the original articles they're drawn from? In every one of them the article text specifically refers to Bermender as the company's president, not merely a contact. —Psychonaut (talk) 08:19, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Removed raising of ethical questions language

I removed the language regarding the 'raising of ethical questions' section here. The article quotes a single attorney who offers an opinion. At best, we could say that a single attorney thinks the clause is unenforceable but it seems extraneous. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:27, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Good call. I further streamlined the criticism section to remove a bit of trivia, such as same attorney's comments about Kleargear's headquarters, how they never showed up in court (that's what a default judgment is), etc. I also combined a few related paragraphs. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Ricky81682 (talk) MUST be investigated right fukkin now. This profile has protected Bermender since day fukkin ONE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.67.164.215 (talk) 20:04, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Lee Gerstein does not exist

And neither do the half dozen other creations of William Franklin Bermender and his <redacted> lawyer Gutman.

We have a photo of Mr. Bermender, at least a dozen internet references to his involvement in Kleargear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.147.186 (talk) 00:15, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

If you can provide a reliable, third-party source for that, we'll include that. Given that there is a public federal case, I'd first try visiting the courthouse and reviewing the public documents. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 00:47, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Full Bullshit. I HAVE provide over a dozen references NONE OF WHICH are acceptable to paid fukkin whore. The first THREE were rejected out of hand and the following half a dozen where similarly ditched. I could produce ANOTHER fukkin half a dozen but it that wouldn't matter to a pure PoS paid scumbag would it?